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Underthrow guys by 30 yards
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He reads coverages better and he throws the ball on-time.
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Not that it much matters with the signing of Josh, but why the extremes?
I never said he was a potential franchise qb. I simply stated that I don't think its correct to put all our woes on one guy. Hate that phrase anyway, whats it even mean?
Kurt Warner was bagging groceries, then he was a 'franchise qb'.
rg3 is a 'franchise qb'...or supposed to be anyway.
Hoyer won more games than he lost, and that hasn't been the norm around here for a good long time.
It's cool though. I just don't agree with what you are saying.
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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Are you saying that 16 games is not enough to conclude a guy has reached his ceiling?
Relax, I am agreeing w/you.
All I know is that I would rather have Hoyer than McCown. I think Farmer and Pettine are clueless about QBs. lol...am i that uppity?  Well it looks like the circus continues. Here's hoping Manziel gets his head on straight, and comes out hungry.
Attitude is everything....FEAR THE ELF!!!
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he throws the ball on-time That's debatable. You're correct if we go off of the team being healthy, little to no game tape on Hoyer's tendencies with Shanahan's offenses, and a run game that is clicking due to a healthy offensive line. Football, as you should know, is one of the most injury battered sports next to hockey. Life won't always be sunshine and rainbows. I want a QB who can push through the adversity. I'm certain Hoyer couldn't push through all the adversity; look at his last few games with us for that proof. I'm not saying McCown is any better. Just a little bit of perspective here, Vers.
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He reads coverages better and he throws the ball on-time. How do you know these things? Do you watch lots of Josh McCown games?
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Why do you ask me questions when you don't want to hear the answers.
If you already think you have all the answers, don't ask questions.
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I am legitimately curious.
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Sure you are.
I already answered your question.
I would NOT have answered the question if I didn't know the answer. There are plenty of times where I say "I don't really know because..." Take a look at the Draft Forum and you will see examples of that.
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Seriously though, how do you know McCown so well? I don't know him that well at all, other than he has been around the league forever.
I am just trying to learn more about our new QB. Obviously you know more than me on this subject, because you wouldn't comment on something you don't know about.
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You aren't serious, but I will try again just because I have some weird belief that all men are good at their core, even though I pretty much know you are asking these questions in hopes that I slip up and you can attack me once again.
I have the ticket. I watch as many games as I can. I even record games so I can watch them through the week. I do this because I NEVER watch regular TV. It's sports or nothing. I will rent movies and watch them, but that is rare. I typically read books.
I tape the games to help justify paying that much money for the Ticket and because I love football. I have never studied McCown, but I have seen enough of him to know that he does not read coverages as well as Hoyer, nor does he get the ball out of his hands as quickly.
I don't see why that is so hard to fathom that I could determine that by watching both of them over their careers.
Now, you don't have to believe me..........but I have tried answering your questions. Quite unlike you. I remember I asked you about how the board would have reacted if Banner/Lombardi would have done the same things this FO had done. I asked you to be honest. Of course, you never replied.
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I certainly don't like that they signed what I perceive to be one of the worst of the bunch of the options that will be on the table. My only hope is that they aren't done at the QB position.
I wouldn't have liked it if Banner and Lombardi would have done it either.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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When did Hoyer overcome adversity when the book was out on him? I don't see how either Hoyer or McCown are much different besides age.
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Tennessee and Atlanta off the top of my head.
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Honestly, we have Josh now. I know, most of us aren't happy about that. It is what is, some people can make a valid argument that he was the better of the poor selection of free agent QBs.
In any case, decision has been made and he's here now. I see no reason why the team hasn't cut Brian and let him get a lead start trying to find his new home.
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I see no reason why the team hasn't cut Brian and let him get a lead start trying to find his new home.
maybe they're not done with him yet.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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I see no reason why the team hasn't cut Brian and let him get a lead start trying to find his new home.
maybe they're not done with him yet. Josh McCown, Brian Hoyer and Johnny Manziel/Connor Shaw? There are things, evil things, that can keep you up all night. That outcome is and would be one of them lol.
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maybe they're not done with him yet. Vers and I stated a while ago that it is likely that Hoyer and Manziel cannot co-exist on the Browns...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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There are things, evil things, that can keep you up all night. That outcome is and would be one of them
how so? you have the two vets i'm talking about and two younger guys that can still sit and learn awhile longer.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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Vers and I stated a while ago that it is likely that Hoyer and Manziel cannot co-exist on the Browns...
that may be true and that maybe not. i haven't seen anything in print that makes me believe that there is a problem between the two. just a bunch of media whores looking to juice up another wise lame ass story. i have never seen either one of them quoted as saying that anything is wrong.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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Vers and I stated a while ago that it is likely that Hoyer and Manziel cannot co-exist on the Browns...
that may be true and that maybe not. i haven't seen anything in print that makes me believe that there is a problem between the two. just a bunch of media whores looking to juice up another wise lame ass story. i have never seen either one of them quoted as saying that anything is wrong. Hoyer's too much of a professional to say anything and JM, he probably can't remember half of what went on last year to say anything.
#GMSTRONG
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I don't think the Browns can afford to re-sign Hoyer. Not because of the money, but because he'd win the job, which would mean Manziel sits another year (and they still wouldn't know if he can play), and would also mean they spent $6M on McCown to be Johnny's nanny. None of this has much to do with actually winning games in 2015, IMO. And that's what bugs me.
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I don't think the Browns can afford to re-sign Hoyer. Not because of the money, but because he'd win the job, which would mean Manziel sits another year (and they still wouldn't know if he can play
if he wins the job that means we're better off next year anyway. and would it not only benefit the FO and manziel to sit another year? some say no but i'm too old school to think any different.
he is not going to lose any of his god given skills by sitting another year. he will have an extra year to develope the muscle between his ears to add another dimension to his skills.
jmo
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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There are things, evil things, that can keep you up all night. That outcome is and would be one of them
how so? you have the two vets i'm talking about and two younger guys that can still sit and learn awhile longer. I don't think if we were to retain Hoyer, it would be for a three year long contact like McCown got or anything long at all, because I don't think the staff, JMO, believes either of these are the long-term answer at QB. They may be a band-aide until the draft is either stronger, or free agency is either stronger. I don't think Brian would want to sign a short term deal. All JMO. I guess though it wouldn't be horrible.
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And that sums it up. Due to his age, McCown is really the only FA out there who was willing to sign in to a 3 year deal. Hoyer is probably looking for 5 years.
He may not get it now because we were going to help him when talking to other teams. Now that we are more or less out of the picture, his position is weakened.
We were looking for a bridge because we are still hitched to Johnny Football.
I am not saying how that will end up working out, but it is foolish to think we wash our hands of that at this point. It is still a open book.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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I wouldn't be surprised if McCown only stays here a year, and that's not a negative..
That would assume however that we figure out the Qb situation THIS year.. somewhat unlikely..
But after this season we only owe him a million left of his guaranteed salary.. so i'd say two years tops..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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It's sad to see Hoyer go, especially in light of the fact the Browns FO thinks McCown is a viable replacement. It tells you all you need to know about them.
I never will understand the lack of support Hoyer received from management. Instead of doing all they could to help him be successful they did all they could to insure he fail.
It all makes no sense to me but most of what this group has done hasn't made much sense and I expect that to continue..............Sad
BTTB
AKA Upbeat Dawg
Can't believe I am in a group that is comprised of the best NOT just fans but people on the planet.
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It's sad to see Hoyer go....the Browns FO thinks McCown is a viable replacement Yes it is in a way, hometown boy and all. However, McCown was not brought in to be Hoyer's replacement. Rather he is a short-term bridge QB who I believe the FO expects him to significantly impact Manziel's development. This has been discussed ad nauseum in this and other threads...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I'm sad about the departure of Hoyer for two reasons, I always like a feel good story and his was one. And I don't see McGowen being any better, perhaps worse.
one thing that is kinda lingering in the back of my mind is what did hoyer do or say that made them not want him?
Did he want too long a deal for too much money? Was he a distraction in the locker room?
I have nothing that tells me either of them are true, but it does make me wonder.
#GMSTRONG
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
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I too am sad to see him go, but if he was set up to fail like BTTB thinks, then it would have to be shanny that set him up, since he's the one that was calling the plays. I think BH was splitting the locker room, with I'm the leader here and JFF was on everybody's nerve. And it did not help when, I think his agent?, was saying that BH did not want to be on the same team as JFF.
Edit: It didn't help any that he wasn't interested in helping any young QB that might take his job. Can't blame him for that, but you know, It's all about Team now, so it doesn't look like he would fit.
Last edited by bleednbrown; 03/06/15 09:13 AM.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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B to B...the next move the Browns make..if there is a next move..will determine how I feel about Hoyer getting kicked out of Cleveland.
If the front office brings in someone better than Hoyer, it would be hard to complain. Problem is, McCown is not better than Hoyer and I don't know of anyone of the free agent QBs I would consider better than Hoyer.
So, is there a trade being planned for a QB currently under contract?...someone clearly better than Hoyer?
If the plan is to draft a QB, even one of the top 2 QBs..rolling with a 35 yr veteran who went 1-10 as a starter last season...and a rookie from this draft... and 2 1st year QBs Manziel and Connor Shaw...THAT DOES NOT SPELL "WIN NOW".
Unless there is a trade for an established QB in the works, Brian Hoyer gave the Browns the best chance to win from day one of the regular season...
FOOTBALL IS NOT BASEBALL
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And it did not help when, I think his agent?, was saying that BH did not want to be on the same team as JFF. Hoyer never said he didn't want to be here if Manziel was here.
Hoyer: False I wouldn't re-sign with Manziel on Browns
By Marc Sessler
Around the NFL Writer
Oct. 15, 2014
The Cleveland Browns have an interesting situation brewing under center.
Five months after drafting a savior at quarterback in Johnny Manziel, it's Brian Hoyer who has taken command of a team that sits at a surprising 3-2.
A free agent after the season, Hoyer on Wednesday shot down a Bleacher Report dispatch suggesting that he won't agree to a long-term deal with the Browns if Manziel remains on the roster, telling reporters that the rumor "couldn't be further from the truth."
"That's 100 percent false," Hoyer's agent, Joe Linta, told Tom Reed of The Plain Dealer.
Hoyer said Monday that he wants to remain in Cleveland, "but I'm also a competitor, so I want to be somewhere where I'm playing."
Currently leading the NFL with 13.6 yards per completion, Hoyer sports a 99.5 passer rating to go with his 6-2 mark as a Browns starter. Showing growing chemistry with play-caller Kyle Shanahan, Hoyer's rise has all but made Johnny Football an afterthought.
That success, though, has yet to kick-start Cleveland's front office into action. Linta told NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport on Wednesday that "there have been no talks" since the spring, when the Browns offered Hoyer a long-term extension.
That offer, though, tried to pay Hoyer as a backup, which he appeared to be after drafting Manziel. Now Hoyer's camp is willing to wait until the end of the season -- and even until the end of the playoffs -- to negotiate his value.
Hoyer, after all, would like to be paid as a solid starter, Rapoport was told. With the passer's potential cost rising with every solid outing, Rapoport pointed to November 1 as a checkpoint to re-open talks.
"The reason why Hoyer may want to agree to a deal: It minimizes his injury risk," Rapoport said. "At this point he is being paid basically the minimum. If he gets injured he has no security."
In the meantime, Linta promised The Plain Dealer that Hoyer's contract status won't distract him from performing on Sundays.
"Brian's heartbeat doesn't go above 50 (beats per minute) on the field or off it," Linta said. "He's been very calm about this."
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Unless there is a trade for an established QB in the works, Brian Hoyer gave the Browns the best chance to win from day one of the regular season... I could agree with that..If Hoyer went 9-7 10-6 11-5.... But he failed miserably in the second half of the season.. Hoyer got himself sat because of very poor play.. If Hoyer was to start this season... it would take on a feeling of whens he going to fall apart.. Hoyer was okay...I'm not going to miss him.. I don't even think about him much now...The first part of the season was fun...the last half was pathetic... and that was the the half that meant the most to this team... We fell out of a chance for a playoff game because of poor QB play.
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Then who's the one that started it?
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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one thing that is kinda lingering in the back of my mind is what did hoyer do or say that made them not want him?
Did he want too long a deal for too much money? Was he a distraction in the locker room?
i've been wondering that also. as for distraction in the locker room, it's seems strange that no player has even tweeted something of the sort. unless i have missed said quote, it's hard for me to believe the distraction theory. something has divided hoyer and the FO though and enquiring minds need to know.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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something has divided hoyer and the FO though and enquiring minds need to know. Maybe it's as simple as the FO knew he wasn't their guy..
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This is all I could find on it. Maybe started by a reporter. http://fansided.com/2014/10/13/brian-hoyer-wont-sign-extension-if-johnny-manziel-stays/Might also be one of those where there is smoke things. I know he wanted to be in a place where he would start, maybe felt he wouldn't be the man with JFF here.
Dawginit since Jan. 24, 2000 Member #180
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one thing that is kinda lingering in the back of my mind is what did hoyer do or say that made them not want him?
Did he want too long a deal for too much money? Was he a distraction in the locker room?
i've been wondering that also. as for distraction in the locker room, it's seems strange that no player has even tweeted something of the sort. unless i have missed said quote, it's hard for me to believe the distraction theory. something has divided hoyer and the FO though and enquiring minds need to know. It's hard for me to believe it also. But it makes me wonder..
#GMSTRONG
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"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
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So, is there a trade being planned for a QB currently under contract?...someone clearly better than Hoyer?
for pettine's sake i hope so. i've said before that i just don't see pet agreeing to go into the season with the QB lineup we have at the moment. the odds aren't good that we would even end up with the same record as last year.
tradition can only carry you so far, then you have to start winning again.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns reach out to Brian Hoyer's
camp about extension
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