DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns reach out to Brian Hoyer's camp about extension

I think it's a pretty simple process regarding Hoyer:

1. He isn't this FO's acquisition.
2. He played very poorly down the stretch.
3. He turned down a contract to gamble on himself- turned out to be a bad decision.
4. He thinks he can be a long-term starter; The FO doesn't.
5. He's a FA.
6. The texting issue probably was referring to him in someway, somehow, if not directly. It rightfully pissed him off.

Boom Goes the Dynamite....He's Gone.

Maybe it's as simple as the FO knew he wasn't their guy..

if that's the case, i can fully understand that and i am cool with that. but to then sign McCown makes me want to ask them is this your guy?

Apparently, he was the leader. There was no split in the locker room.


Locker Room Report: Browns teammates strongly support QB Brian Hoyer

Dec 3, 2014
Kevin Jones
Staff Writer
Locker Room Report

Pettine took an informal poll among the veteran leaders

Perhaps the strongest quote that came from Wednesday’s quarterback decision in Berea was when coach Mike Pettine told reporters he conducted informal meetings with several players to take their temperature on both Brian Hoyer and Johnny Manziel.

The rapport Pettine has built with veteran leaders on the team was an element in determining which quarterback would lead the Browns against the Indianapolis Colts.

“I did get a chance to speak to some of them,” said Pettine. “It was a similar theme, and it was more positives about Brian than anything else. I just think from a continuity standpoint and given where we are, it kind of drove it to the deciding factor."

Pro Bowl left tackle Joe Thomas was among the players Pettine sought out and one of the many who extended support to Hoyer in the locker room. Thomas has long praised Hoyer’s leadership ability, even calling the 29-year-old the missing piece to puzzle earlier in the season.

That viewpoint from Thomas never wavered, even when Manziel took command of the offense against Buffalo last Sunday.

“Certainly Brian has put us in this position. We still feel like he’s going to give us the best chance to win,” said Thomas.

Thomas lauded Manziel for the way he’s handled everything. Coming into the middle of an NFL game at quarterback is one of the most difficult.

Players said Pettine did not make a big announcement to the team. It was understood that Hoyer would be keeping the job. The media firestorm of the quarterback quandary did not shake the walls inside the Browns’ facility.

Read more:
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...98-adce84c47361

As far as Hoyer being unwilling to "mentor" a young QB, I haven't heard or read anything that supports that as being Hoyer's attitude. I have, however, seen him talking to both Manziel and Shaw on the bench or at the sideline when they were in the game.

I liked Brian Hoyer.

He's from Cleveland, he seems like a good guy, and he's a really smart quarterback, but he has average at best arm talent and yes he really struggled down the stretch last year which is a real shame.

Had he been able to finish the job and get us to 9-7 or 10-6 I firmly believe we would be committed to him again this season.

We got to 6-3 and he started playing his WORST football of the season. (Houston, Atlanta with 3 INT's, Buffalo, Indianapolis). He raised the bar himself by STARTING 6-3 and then he started to tank and failed to live up to those expectations.

I don't think McCown will be any better, in fact I FULLY EXPECT to go 6-10 next season, but having Hoyer AND McCown seems kind of pointless, we're taking a roster spot away from a young QB we can draft and groom for down the road.

I wish Brian Hoyer luck.

My guess is he signs with either the Jets, Texans or Titans to compete for the opening day starting spot.

It also makes sense for him to sign with the Redskins, Rams or even the Bears as all of their starters have question marks going into 2015.

I don't believe they think he is...He's another possible stepping stone...another name on that long list in search of the long term answer..

what MemphisBrownie 6 points he mentions... Is pretty much why Hoyer isn't here and Josh is..

My guess, it was the blogger / wannabe journalist that first wrote it on Bleacher Report. They just throw [stuff] against the wall and see it it sticks.

LMAO ! and I really shouldn't find that funny.. but it's so true..

That should be on the jersey that has all the Browns Starting QB's names listed..

I liked Brian Hoyer too. I met him once last year. Super nice guy and willing to converse, although briefly, with just about everyone. Again, just an overall nice guy. The added NE Ohio element was very Kosar-esque too.

I think the bottom line is that Brian Hoyer reverted back to the QB the previously three teams he was one thought of him.....in large part, he plays like a backup. To his defense, probably better than your average backup.

He's smart, new how to get the ball out fast (loved that about him...the anti-Weeden), works hard, & teammates love him.

Physically, I just don't think he cannot carry a team on his shoulders like a starter should. He needs other factors to be working on all cylinders- like the running game and a health o-line. And when the season wore on, and the pressure mounted, he could not prove to the team (and I think to most fans as well) that he was not the answer, long-term.

Early success in the running game allowed him to perform his best in the PA. Mack at the epicenter of the zone scheme helped tremendously. Once that running game diminished, I think we all began to see Hoyer a bit clearer, IMO.

i hope it is as simple as you say. good luck to both sides.

Nothing against Brian, we ALL love his story and I'm sure we all also love his character, but I don't think we've really become much worse with McCown in and Brian out. Hoyer was someone who collapsed in pretty much all aspects when asked and required to do more and when the weight was added to his shoulders. He folded. His mechanics went to crap, throwing off his back feet constantly when there was virtually no reason to. Launching onto double coverage and the list continues.

IMO, Hoyer is not someone who can take you the distance. He barely was able to hit an open WR 20+ yards down field.

I wish him nothing but the best. Out of a group of crap free agent QBs, it's almost safe to say he's the top of em' all and won't have a hard time finding a new home.

Fortunately, (or unfortunately?) we didn't sign McGowen. We signed McCown.

Thinking that McCown is a viable bridge QB and that JM will ever be anything other then what he is today only adds to my thinking when it comes to this FO. Sad

Their thinking should be much more long term commiting dollars to McCown only tells me their shooting for the number one pick in next years draft maybe thats why they hated Hoyer he screwed up their plans, now they made damned sure they get the 1st pick.. After all McCown got the Bucs the number one pick no reason to think he can't do the same for us.. maybe thats the plan...... But Bridge QB na man that one don't even float..........LOL

LOL Spelling Police are out.. Everybody be careful

Bingo they are going for the first pick, but I see that is a good thing. This is a 2-14 team at best with McCown starting. Hopefully they will get lucky for once and pick the right guy in 2016.

Maybe Ytown is wishing it was Rose McGowan instead of Josh McCown... Hell she couldn't do any worse at QB!!!

Seems queer as all hell that they like McCown but hate Hoyer. sadness is sure to follow.......

Got to wonder what the hell their thinking, and mostly Haslam what did Hoyer do nail his wife??? I don't get it and haven't from way back in TC last season.

Bernie did an interview a while back with the PD and said until this franchise learns how to commit to a QB this will continue to happen.

Said this many times. When a guy is your starter you have to be all in. This regime needs to learn to support the starter until they do I expect more of the same. SAD

I do not, and will not understand this line of thinking..

We won 7 games this season with below average QB play..

We still have two opportunities to improve the team (FA, Draft)

I don't know how people assume we are a two win team..

I don't know either brother, a lot of them thinking that way were all for the Browns at 7-4, it's like on a sinking ship, the rats are first over the side ... JMHO

Surely you can't be serious when saying this...

They might when we get one... Hoyer is a back up not a starter... Hoyer got sat because of terrible play.. Why would we want to watch that kind of play again ?

Lets wait and see where Hoyer ends up Tuesday...

But you weren't even close, Daman'...

+1 to below average qb play.

I don't understand it either. TB's o-line was one of the worst, running game wasn't very good, defense was ranked in the 20's (they gave up 22 more sacks than us, also). Sure they have a couple nice pieces, but that's pretty much it.

I'm not saying McCown or whoever is going to win us 10+ games, but I don't see how we can't make it around 5-8 wins, which isn't in #1 pick territory.

Besides....even if we would be up for the #1 pick, you know we would end up winning the last game or two of the season (those fun moral victories) and end up dropping down the line anyways.

That's non sense..When we were 7-3 there wasn't any negativity...

People were questioning things that needed questioned on..

Some have opinions we may win 7 + games

Some have opinions we may win 2...

We have witnessed signs of success and signs of failure all in last season...

Let people have their opinions... they make them on what they see... Not because they want to be negative and hateful or being like a rat...

I thought we were going to the playoffs last season..sure looked like we were.. But what happened ?

The speed bump turned out to be a brick wall instead...

Isn't that the truth...ughhh

Sad isn't it LOL

I don't remember seeing this posted anywhere but its a great read and Bernie was oh so right. Unfortunately he is right I should say. This regime is just more of the same and in my eyes unacceptable.

LEVELAND, Ohio -- Bernie Kosar: disgruntled ex-employee or right all along?

Back in December, Kosar made waves when he went on Mike Trivisonno's radio show (full interview here) and blasted the Browns following their 30-0 home loss to Cincinnati. It was the first career start for rookie Johnny Manziel and the loss essentially ended any shot the Browns had at the playoffs.

Kosar spent much of the interview taking shots at the Browns' front office and reiterated time and again that, essentially, people within the front office needed to stay in their lanes.

"You need that linear focus of just doing what you're supposed to do," Kosar said in the interview. "If you're a nose guard, you're gonna stop the run. DB, you're gonna stop the wide receivers. If you're a general manager, you're looking at players. If you're a quarterback coach, you're going to coach the guys that they get you and you just stick to that. And [the Browns] do everything else but that."

At the time of Kosar's interview, much was made of what he said as it pertained to the quarterback situation: "The names change, but the way we do things as a culture above them is still the same. ... And until that changes, we're always going to have two quarterbacks that we just manipulate back and forth and throw names in there, but it's not going to be consistently successful."
Do recent reports change your view of Bernie Kosar's comments on the team in December?
Yes. He might be on to something.No. I was in agreement all along.No. He still sounds like a bitter ex-employee.Other:
VoteView Results

Revisiting the interview after a week of ugly news -- Mary Kay Cabot's report of punishment looming for Ray Farmer for texting the coaching staff during games and Jason La Canfora's report that paints a picture of a blurred line between the business and football sides of the building -- and it's clear there was much more to it than just helping the quarterbacks succeed. Begin with his take on Mike Pettine's performance:

"He was hired under these set of rules where everybody gets to giggle and laugh and talk about things and everybody is involved in everything," Kosar said, "and he was hired in a tough, tough spot, in a culture above him that's not a football culture. It's not a winning football culture, so it goes above that."

Culture. So many GMs and owners and head coaches and any other number of team personnel love to toss around the word "culture." If Browns fans have learned anything since 1999 it's that culture is really important. Maybe the Browns were making progress on a culture change during their 7-4 start, before the train flew off the tracks and the pressure mounted to switch quarterbacks.

This week has shed new light on the Browns' culture, and it's not pretty.

"This is an obsessive game of high stakes, high competition," Kosar said, "and the feeling of winning is good. But the distaste that those guys -- [Bill] Belichick -- that distaste that they have for losing fuels them to obsessively focus on their job. And you can't expect a 23-, 25-year old kid to know that.

"If they don't see the examples from the people above them, then how are they supposed to know? They don't even know, sometimes, what they don't know, if that makes sense."

Who knows? Maybe Kosar was just being a disgruntled ex-employee. Or maybe he was on to something.

LINK http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...related_stories

Hoyer was all about his business he was a team leader the troops rallied around him and the FO sends him packing for McCown. Perhaps had this regime shown any level of support to Hoyer it would have made a difference instead his stumble gave them the excuse to start JM, and the rest is history as they say.

But how do you judge their ability to decide who should start for the Browns if they started JM?? When you ask yourself that question it becomes clear as day... They know not what they do.

Pet for his part has allowed himself to be a puppet and thats sad too...

I'm not down on these folks I'm done with them and i fully expect will get more of the same..

Bernie was right he nailed them and with text gate and the like the fog clears and its just as ugly as ever. SAD

I probably defended Hoyer longer than most did last year, but man, he completely fell apart starting around the middle of last season, and was a wreck at the end of the year.

He had some completely magical games early on. We won some incredible comeback games, and he was the leader in those games.

Unfortunately, he really started to struggle once we lost that incredible run game we had until we lost Mack. Once he has to take on a bigger role in the offense, he struggled badly.

In the final 6 games in which he appeared, he threw 2 TD passes and 9 INT. Now the TD passes weren't as huge an issue to me as they were to some, because we ran the ball in a lot. We scored a total of 17 rushing TD, and that is really strong. In fact, 3 teams had 18 rushing TD, and then was us with 17. When you can and do run the ball in frequently, especially down close, then your QB doesn't have to take as many chances at the goal line. (Right Pete Carroll?)

Anyway, when the team is working on all cylinders, and we have the run game going as we did early last year, then the QB doesn't have to be THE backbone. He can just drive.

However, I think that Hoyer started to see himself as more than a driver, and instead saw himself as "a QB with a 10-6 record". (even taking credit for a win where he left with injury, trailing 10-0) I think that Hoyer is a decent QB, who can win some games under the best of circumstances, but he is going to struggle when asked to win games on his own.

In the Oakland game, the defense directly set up 10 points. The defense also set up scores in the Bucs game. In the Cincinnati game, the defense dominated the Bengals, and started off the game by handing the offense the ball on the Bengals 18 yard line. However, those are the kinds of games that Hoyer can win. Get big contributions from the run game and the defense, and don't make big mistakes.

That is not a franchise QB. However, there were reports that Hoyer wanted to start negotiations with the team at the level of Andy Dalton's contract with the Bengals. That would be a 6 year, $92 million contract. Nice starting place. Is Hoyer worth that? Heck, is Dalton?

People say "Yeah, but the Bengals can get out of that deal early", and that's true, but they still invested $17 million guaranteed in Dalton, and will pay him $4.2 million in bonuses this year, in addition to his salary, and then his salary jumps to $10.5 million next year.

His cap number started at $9 million (roughly) last year and this coming year, and then jumps to $13 million. Is Hoyer worth that? I don't think so.

It is obvious that something happened with Hoyer that made the braintrust see him as not being the guy for this team. Pettine wasn't exactly shedding tears when the word came down the we signed McCown, and that, essentially, ended Hoyer's Browns career. I cannot say for sure, and I have no real way of knowing this other than by putting together what happened with things that Hoyer has said, but the signs point to a very average QB who became convinced that he was far better than he truly is. Obviously the coaches saw him up close far more than we did, and I do trust Pettine most out of everyone in the Browns organization roght now, and probably over the course of the last 20 or so years ...... so he gets the benefit of a doubt from me. He did not seem to want Hoyer back, so I will trust that there was a reason for that.

Now as far as McCown, I believe that McCown is the "Well, we need a veteran no matter what we do at the position" pick, and so they signed him. I do not believe that he will be the fonal word at the position. Could he start the year under Center? Possibly. Could he start the year on the bench? Possibly. Could he start the year and be replaced fairly early on? Possible. We'll have to wait and see how the season (and off-season/preseason) plays out.

6 of those 7 wins... a QBR rate of 96.9, 8.8 yard per attempt. and 60% completion.

thats not below average QB play. for perspective.....

tom brady. 97.4 qbr, 7.1 per attempt, 64% completion.

Andrew Luck 96.5 QBR, 7.7 per attempt, 61.7 completion.

He had started three games and was coming off a torn ACL, what did you want them to do?

What were his other stats in those wins? It seems like you are leaving something out. . .

(Also, just for future reference, QBR and QB rating are two different things.)

a QBR rate of 96.9, 8.8 yard per attempt. and 60% completion.

the average of the first 6 wins. we won 1 game with below average QB play. the Falcons.

Right, but two of those wins you or I could have played QB and we still would have won (2nd Pittsburgh game, 1st Bengals game).

I think I am done talking about Hoyer. He's gone. Let's talk more about our new crappy QB instead of our old one.

well you might but i am a little old for it.

Is it too much to ask to use simple punctuation? Yes, I could just skip your posts, but you're an interesting poster so I would prefer not to do that.

I have come around a little to your way of thinking on Hoyer. I don't quite understand the allergic reaction to the guy unless he's a real jerk. And I do believe the lack of support the FO showed Hoyer has been a factor here in his play. But the only way you or I would be right on Hoyer is if he is truly an unfinished product. It appears the Browns think he is a finished product. I think he could still improve. It will be interesting to see how he plays next year.

As for your comment on Pet, I think that is completely unfair. That's a comment made by someone who has never worked in an environment where you have people that you have to work in a team atmosphere with and/or report to and/or compromise with. I seriously doubt Pettine has become a puppet, but he's not going to fall on the ground and have a temper tantrum either. If anything, I think Pettine is the one guy who has shown enough to get behind. To lump him in with the rest is unfair and completely dismissive of the type of environment he is working in.

His season average QBR was 43... 76.5 QB Rating..

If Hoyer threw more than one TD in a game, he also threw an INT..

He is not a franchise guy, but seems to think he is, he is a divided locker room waiting to happen..

He may wind up in Houston and have a solid year, they may win 9 games and contend for the playoffs..

If he goes to a team like Tennessee it won't end well..

Regardless of where he goes, even if it was here, he's no ones "answer" at QB, just like McCown is not ours..

just pointed out the foolish myth that it was below average QB play in the 7 wins.

Oh my bad.. He played Average 6 games last season..

Below average in 4 games..

And terrible in the other 4..

Yeah that's so much better.