DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Sign Josh McCown

Well yeah, we have Johnny Rehab and Connor Shaw as competition. I'd expect to start too lol.

I am not sure we should be poking fun at someone who is in rehab, but I agree with your sentiment.

+1

JM .. Is that Johnny Manziel or Josh McCown ?

My feelings about this signing is .. Our we being asked yet again to accept an unproven winner ?

Somehow I believe this organization believes they can sell us any cheaper version of a product...and expect us to buy into it as a good buy for the money...

Once again as a fan I'm asked to buy into a product and trust it to be a productive and enjoyable commodity...

My foolishness kicks in and says ... Got to give him a chance...never know.. we might get lucky and be able to put a respectable team on the field... SMH...

It's still early and all this talk may not even matter come game time...jmo.

I can't speak for anyone else, but my point in all of this is that Farmer simply should have been fired months ago if you compare his track record to previous run out of town FO failures. Everything else is double standard.

Yeah, I know what your next move is: we haven't tried consistency. But for the sake of consistency? What have those other guys we've fired done lately?
Textgate combined with last year's first round is more than enough reason to fire the guy. Especially because he sucked in KC too. We could have kept Pettine for consistency. The players don't need the same GM to hang around to feel consistency. If anything, they probably would have appreciated to have a GM who doesn't interfer with on field stuff.

The only reason Farmer still has his job is either because he's a yes man to Haslam or because Haslam has it's hands tied because of his reputation, so basically PR reasons. Maybe both.

So, I'm sorry to tell you that "they complain just to complain" isn't much of an argument either. What's your argument? Is it: "it is what it is, so just live with it and support your team"? That not only isn't an argument, but it's also incredibly lame and has always been a last resort move.

Is asking for argumentative consistency really too much these days around here? This isn't about agenda, not for me. I welcomed Farmer with open arms, because I hated everything about LomBanner. But he has done as bad as those guys and considering what he had to work with, I'd even say he's done worse, which I thought was impossible.

That's been our problem since 1999, PATIENCE, lets fire every if we don't win in 1 or 2 years ... JMHO

teams have continuity because they have success, they don't have success just because they have continuity.

I have no problem with him competing as though he were going to be the starter. That's how every player should prepare. The issue comes if he's not named the starter and how he reacts. If he pouts/causes issues, then that's wrong. If he does his job and still prepares properly then there's no problem at all.

I didn't get a chance to comment on this topic yet...

Signing Josh McCown to me is a major head scratcher.

Why?

He had two #1 receivers last year in THE WORST division in football and he still couldn't sustain any consistent success in Tampa. Now he's to come to Cleveland and play against the AFC North, AFC West and NFC West with NO Mike Evans and NO Vincent Jackson? I'm not sure how that's going to work. A 35-year old journeyman backup. To me it seemed like a desperation move.

If the goal is for him to be a backup and mentor 100% though, it does make some level of sense I suppose. If he was brought in because we're planning to draft another QB, and roll with Manziel into next season, having a smart veteran backup makes sense. I guess at this point I'm hoping we draft Bryce Petty with our 2nd round pick. Let Petty & Manziel battle for the starting spot with McCown helping them both?

There has to be some kind of bigger plan in place.

I was kind of hoping for someone like Jake Locker, Ryan Mallet or Mike Glennon to be honest, but I guess that fantasy is dead.

I have no idea what to expect in terms of offensive production next year. I'm hoping we'll continue to sign some good character, veteran free agents (that are effective), and then hopefully Farmer can repeat his success in this up coming draft.

Oh no. . .

The more I read/hear about the Buccaneer's offensive situation last year, the more I cringe. Their offensive coordinator missed the entire season because of an illness. The guy calling plays for them, Marcus Arroyo, had no NFL coaching experience (he is now the running backs coach at Oklahoma State), and McCown took on many of the duties a coach would normally handle. I don't think the 2014 season is a fair sample as to what McCown can do.

With all that said, I think the rest of his career (besides five games in an ideal situation with the Bears) shows that McCown is not an NFL starter. If he is starting we are screwed.

Don't you agree that at some point we have to give people time to do their jobs? I mean we could fire everyone after a year if a) they don't deliver immediate results and/or b) they make a ton of mistakes. That is one approach. The other is to let them grow into the job, learn from their mistakes, and give them time to implement their plan. I just don't believe Haslam, Farmer, Pettine, and Manziel, for that matter, are finished products. I don't know how anyone can say they are. I know for me, when I start a new job, it takes me a while to learn what I am doing. I make a ton of mistakes, and I learn from them. By year 3, I am usually a master at what I am doing. Is it naïve to think that same standard should apply to NFL personnel? Perhaps, but they're humans just like us.



You're confusing my words with a debate or an attempt by me to make an argument. It's more of an observation. I just don't know what complaining about what's in the past is going to accomplish. At least you have the guts to say you want Farmer fired. There are other posters who complain but don't offer up any solutions. That's why I keep asking posters "what is it that you want?". Complaining without an end game just rings hollow. So I'm not trying to debate a point. I actually don't really care for Farmer. I think he's arrogant, and he obviously let a personality conflict with Hoyer drive his decision to not bring him back. I think that was absolutely the wrong decision for the Browns. But I still think that he should get more time.



While I think argumentative consistency is important, I don't think that precludes someone from rethinking their position. I was anti-Chud last year before it became popular to be anti-Chud. If we could redo last year over, I would support Chud continuing on as the coach. I've completely rethought my position on what's important, and I think consistency is important. It's easy to say "look how crappy this guy did", but we really have no idea if that crapiness will continue. This isn't a perfect science here. Guys can learn from their mistakes and become better at what they do. I truly believe that.

You have your own set of criteria for evaluating things. Again, I commend you for at least stating you want Farmer fired. I don't agree with that, but at least your complaints come with a solution.

Yes!

Excluding Manziel and Gilbert I would say that Farmer actually hit our draft out of the park last year, not to mention the UDFA's he found us afterwards...

Bitonio, Kirksey, and West all played and contributed right away...

Pierre Desir played the last three games and showed a lot of improvement.

Taylor Gabriel, K'Waun Williams and The Crow all contributed right away as well.

Gilbert, while he was a disappointment, did appear to get better on the field as the year went along (even though he was an apparent mess off the field).

We had seven rookies contribute to this team in a POSITIVE way this past season (eight if you wanna count Gilbert). Whens the last time that's happened??

I'm excited to see what Farmer & company do this year.

That article does a fairly good job of describing how I feel.

We give a 35 year old proven no good qb a 3 year deal........and the best that can be said about him is "he's a good locker room guy". He's going to be a mentor. To who? Manziel? Shaw? Or the qb we draft (many on here are saying we will draft a qb - some even going so far as to say we should go all out for Mariota).

And, we let a proven serviceable qb go......because he apparently didn't want to play mentor last season? (weird....I guess I wouldn't want to mentor a guy that had issues, showed up late, didn't study film, didn't put the time in. I guess that's just me.)

So we go with a guy that has been a losing qb his whole career.......in order for him to "mentor"?

And, we're talking about drafting a qb as well?

I don't understand.

Hoyer is neither proven nor serviceable.

I think it means we are all in on Johnny, with a Petty or Hundley thrown in just in case. Shaw is gone.

Don't quite understand it myself.

I've read your post and don't say I necessarily disagree with most of your points. The only thing that I would like to put a caveat on is something that I feel needs paid attention to.

I have been critical of Farmer. And I agree with you that people "can learn from their mistakes". But others seem hell bent on believing their way is the only way. That their way is the right way and because it didn't work the first time, doesn't mean it won't work.

You don't have to want someone fired just because you have a negative opinion on their job performance. Let's use your example of how it took you three years on a job to become great at it. Does that mean that your bosses and co-workers didn't look at your current and past job performance to evaluate the process? Does that mean that stockholders don't expect the company to have continued growth and improvement?

People don't have to want someone fired in order to point out mistakes. They don't have to want someone fired in order to see problems and expect improvement. Employers always do this. They don't simply ignore what someone did when they were first hired in order to gauge progress or a lack of it moving forward.

he elevated the play of the players around him.

Yeah, the defense played great in that game against the Colts.

In comparison to McCown? I disagree. And that's the only comparison I was making.

he elevated the play of the players around him. under very adverse conditions.

Yeah, the defense played great in that game against the Colts when Brian Hoyer was terrible and they had six turnovers and we still lost.

I think both stink.

I don't understand the freakout over a lateral move.

Making the assumption that Manziel will never be anything but a carnival act (I have believed this since day 1), what difference does it make whether its Hoyer or McCown sucking next season?

1) IMO, there isn't ANYBODY on that list of free agents who is worth signing top tier QB money to and this is probably what would have been required to bring any of them in. Nor is it likely that any of them would have been able to play up enough to justify that salary. In a salary cap league, paying two mediocre QBs top money just isn't feasible.

2) Any trade for an established QB would likely cost them way more than what they are willing to pay (salary wise or draft pick wise). And that's going under the unlikely scenario that anybody with an established QB would want to make that trade anyway.

3) Outside of Winston or Mariota, none of the available QB's in the draft likely grade out as an immediate starter. They aren't getting Winston and IMO moving up to get Mariota just isn't worth it.

So what options do they really have?

They could resign Hoyer for whatever he is asking for and probably get the same erratic play they got from him last year. I like Hoyer and last season they were right to start him over Manziel. But he is what he is. He is a back up QB with almost a full season of tape on him that NFL defenses are exploiting.

Signing McCown is NO upgrade and I don't believe the FO thinks that it is. He is simply a little less expensive than Hoyer and has some familiarity with the new guy. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm not telling anybody that this is a good situation to be in. It most definetly is not. And it probably means another 2 or 3 years of not being very good. However, given that there isn't anybody who is available to make an immediate impact at the position, it appears that they believe that it would be better to sign a cheap journeymen, add talent to the roster that is missing elsewhere, and hopefully get "the guy" next year.

PPBLCK

Or others elevated his play and when those "others" were not available or lacked consistency.... Mack, Austin, Cameron, West, Crowell, Tate then he was NOT able to elevate the play of those that remained.

Neither point is provable nor dismissible out of hand

be as mad as you want about the colts game. its a team that was one game out of the super bowle.

That's what you're going with?

Remember the time Brian Hoyer elevated the play of those around him in the Bills game? Or the Falcons game (in which we only won because Mike Smith is a complete buffoon)?

Also, if it's a team game, there goes the one argument in favor of Hoyer (his record), right?
Hoyer is bad. McCown is bad.

Mr. K I'm glad you said that about Gilbert. I'm not at all sure what happened with him.. I'm pretty sure he has all the physical tools so I'm hopeful that he and/or the team can fix what's between his ears. If so, we could have a very solid tandem back there with him and Haden.

very simple, very basic. i watched the o-line play with and without hoyer in. judging by the commments on this very board, you know like when its any QB not named hoyer its like "what happend to the o-line" or the team quit on insert what qb not named hoyer into that lol"

look at austin. career year in completion for passes thrown his way. 66%.

yea he elevated the play around him. JMO

Objectively, we know the offensive line went to crap when Mack got hurt. Subjectively, the offensive line played hard for Shaw.



I am all for the use of stats to back up one's argument. I don't know what this is supposed to prove.

What about Ben Tate? Was his play elevated? Nick McDonald? Ryan Seymour? Terrence West? Ray Agnew? Josh Gordon?

Or offense was terrible, if that's the way they play when their play is elevated by the QB, then the QB needs to go along with the crappy other players.

You don't actually believe what you are saying, do you?

In other words. Farmer has nothing. Don't ask him anything about the McCown signing.

and exactly how did they play with hoyer out? Josh Gordon? basket case. there are just some you cannot help no matter what.

Not every team has success in their 1st year though.

Sometimes it take a year or 2 for them to reach success. Aster the 2009 season, the Seattle Seahawks fired Jim Mora, after he posted a 5-11 season. It was his only season as Seahawks head coach. Pete Carroll, hardly a raging success in his previous NFL head coaching ventures, was hired as the new head coach. He went 7-9 and 7-9 in his 1st 2 seasons.

Did the Seahawks fire him? No. They decided to build, instead of tearing down immediately just for the sake of rebuilding.

Seems to me that it worked out pretty well for them.

We have torn down the team so many times in the past 2 decades that it is just amazing. A Giant orange (re)Start button should be our logo. Now we appear to have some solid talent in the front office, and at head coach. Maybe, just maybe, we let them grow into their positions for 3-4 years. It's an idea that is so crazy that it just might work.

NO

Any coach or FO that does not excel their first year and any player not playing up to perceived potential needs to be cut loose.

all contracts should be for one year only and fully guaranteed.

All players should be graded league wide with the highest player at any one position being paid the highest wage next year, based on a sliding wage scale by position.

For example the highest rated QB gets say $16 mil plus whatever the league minimum is ... say 250,000... so he gets 16,250,000. the 2nd highest rated get $500,000 less ( 15,750,000) and so one until we get to the league minimum then the rest of the QB's get that amount.

every player is put into a pool and teams chose from that pool until they use up all their $$.... I mean if we want to act like its Madden lets play like it is.

I'd be right to assume you're counting the 4 preseason games?

Can it get any dumber?

You guys are beyond ridiculous. And love all the purple font at the end of the thread. You are so much smarter than those who don't agree w/the majority.

Agree w/the mob or be ridiculed for having an opposing opinion, despite what history shows.

Y'all never learn.

It's the kind of thing people grasp at when they know they're wrong.