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I'll just leave this right here...

Before we get to "BUT IT'S MOTHAR JOOOONNEEESSS" arguments, let me preface by what's contained in the article. In the article it features text pulled straight from the government report. The facts speak for themselves.

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Who cares.

If dude gets on the damn sidewalk like he ask, he be alive and probably would've gotten away with stealing some cigs or whatever.

Then he made it worse by grabbing for a gun. I understand that police brutality is a huge issue with regards to cops and minorities.

but this ain't one of those issues.


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Originally Posted By: Swish
Who cares.

If dude gets on the damn sidewalk like he ask, he be alive and probably would've gotten away with stealing some cigs or whatever.

Then he made it worse by grabbing for a gun. I understand that police brutality is a huge issue with regards to cops and minorities.

but this ain't one of those issues.

I haven't read this particular article but I heard about this on the news.... this government study isn't about this one issue, it's about systematic discrimination at traffic stops, searches, etc. The study found what I'm sure you already know to be true, and that is that black people are targeted more frequently and for less obvious reasons by the cops in Ferguson...


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I totally agree with you.

However, many brush off the policy brutality and awful race relations side. There's been no actual meaningful attempt to fix these issues.

That's the bigger thread with what happened in Missouri, NYC, and Cleveland. There's an underlying current of mistrust due to misguided mindsets in law enforcement.

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Blacks are the dominant ethnic group in Ferguson. That kinda goes hand and hand.

I understand that yes, some of it is discrimination, but man... White cops, Black dominant city.

I'm shocked - said no one, ever.

At this point there's way more important issues to discuss.


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Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
I totally agree with you.

However, many brush off the policy brutality and awful race relations side. There's been no actual meaningful attempt to fix these issues.

That's the bigger thread with what happened in Missouri, NYC, and Cleveland. There's an underlying current of mistrust due to misguided mindsets in law enforcement.


The problem stems from our community living up the stereotype constantly.

Look, everybody knows i'll go to war fighting racism, as I do on this board all the time, and people tell me they're sick of it.

However, I'll fight tooth and nail to defend my people(well, half) and then the next thing i know, we got black kids here in NE Ohio staging fights in the mall, cinemas and somewhere else, just to have a mass brawl in public and put it on Youtube.

I do my fighting on this board because here it's mostly white guys posting.

but on FB? Ask Victor, I absolutely SLAM my people every chance I get. We can't be crying about equality when we are steady giving white people reasons to call us animals.


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Honest question, how does a city that is almost 70% black end up with a mayor that is white and a city council that is 80% white?


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Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Honest question, how does a city that is almost 70% black end up with a mayor that is white and a city council that is 80% white?


I've been wondering that myself.


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Voter disenfranchisement, potentially?

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Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
Voter disenfranchisement, potentially?

Possibly. No idea how they conduct elections but if the council conducts elections and they control everything, I suppose it's possible that the whole thing is rigged.


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Until Blacks "buy" a few politicians, nothing will change. It all comes down to economics.

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Hey Rocket, Maybe you can tell us how the cop should have acted in this situation. How would you have handled it if you were the cop?

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So called "Police Brutality" is absolutely necessary to adequately enforce the law in sewers like Ferguson MO.

"Pretty please... with sugar on top... put these handcuffs on."

"One black Ferguson resident told Justice Department officials about his interaction with a Ferguson police officer, in which the officer told him "N*****, I can find something to lock you up on"

What? Why is this quote even in print? Why would it carry any weight at all in the Justice Dept. "investigation"?

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This is little more than a parting shot by the USAG because all he sees are race issues. He has stated that since he's been in office. As there are far more blacks than whites in Ferguson, of course there will be significantly more arrests and ticketing of blacks.

Yes, cops will dismiss tickets for their friends, and it looks disproportional when there are majority white cops. When you figure in that most people choose their friends from their own ethnic group, that will explain that stat away.

As for the comments and emails about the POTUS, I've seen far more cartoons depicting Bush as a monkey than I've seen of Obama depicted as a monkey. Why is it only racist for one side? Wouldn't it be more equal to be able to depict a president as you wanted, regardless of race?


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Originally Posted By: ErikInHell
This is little more than a parting shot by the USAG because all he sees are race issues. He has stated that since he's been in office. As there are far more blacks than whites in Ferguson, of course there will be significantly more arrests and ticketing of blacks.

Yes, cops will dismiss tickets for their friends, and it looks disproportional when there are majority white cops. When you figure in that most people choose their friends from their own ethnic group, that will explain that stat away.


You are missing the point, it was proven by their own data that blacks where arrested, taken to jail at a higher percentage when whites who had a higher rate of contraband. The question is if whites had more contraband(drugs, weapons) why were they not arrested? Why were blacks being arrested at a higher rate even though they had no contraband? You are a smart guy, why did this happen? (please be man enough to answer it)


Quote:


As for the comments and emails about the POTUS, I've seen far more cartoons depicting Bush as a monkey than I've seen of Obama depicted as a monkey. Why is it only racist for one side? Wouldn't it be more equal to be able to depict a president as you wanted, regardless of race?


lol please don't try and argue this point, pretty please. Go to any anonymous website where people can post anonymously and you see all the vuglar racial hatred towards Obama.

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Originally Posted By: Lurker
lol please don't try and argue this point, pretty please. Go to any anonymous website where people can post anonymously and you see all the vuglar racial hatred towards Obama.


Oh please may I? Go to google and search 'George W Bush as monkey' and see how many hits you get. Vulgar racial hatred is for those people that can't discuss obamas's policies, and I think that gets pointed out just because Obama happens to be black. It actually ticks me off a bit that Obama can't be publicly depicted as a monkey because he's black. Is that not discrimination too? The cartoons of bush were in nationally publicized articles. Are we not allowed to insult this president because he's black? Where's the equality in that?


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Originally Posted By: ErikInHell
This is little more than a parting shot by the USAG because all he sees are race issues. He has stated that since he's been in office. As there are far more blacks than whites in Ferguson, of course there will be significantly more arrests and ticketing of blacks.

Yes, cops will dismiss tickets for their friends, and it looks disproportional when there are majority white cops. When you figure in that most people choose their friends from their own ethnic group, that will explain that stat away.

As for the comments and emails about the POTUS, I've seen far more cartoons depicting Bush as a monkey than I've seen of Obama depicted as a monkey. Why is it only racist for one side? Wouldn't it be more equal to be able to depict a president as you wanted, regardless of race?


This is why we can never have meaningful dialogue in this country.

instead of addressing the issue, you went straight into defense mode, and went with the typical "yea but, look what they do".

We're not talking about what others do. we're not talking about what whites or blacks do other places. we are talking about what FERGUSON PD does.

And its jacked up. stick to the topic.


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Originally Posted By: Swish
Who cares.

If dude gets on the damn sidewalk like he ask, he be alive and probably would've gotten away with stealing some cigs or whatever.

Then he made it worse by grabbing for a gun. I understand that police brutality is a huge issue with regards to cops and minorities.

but this ain't one of those issues.


This about sums it up for me. Just when I started to enjoy not hearing about Ferguson, it's right back in the media now. It makes no sense. Just take away all the law there and like the thugs dispose of themselves.

Some instances, I get there is legit abuses of police authority and discrimination, but as Swish said, not in this case. That place is full of evil. You gotta approach that type of evil and disregard for the law in a different fashion.

All JMO

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To me it looks like Obama sent his boys in and they also found the Cop was innocent and did his job correctly. Now what do we do to keep the Boss happy? Well, we can make a Mountain out of this Mole Hill.

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Originally Posted By: ErikInHell
Originally Posted By: Lurker
lol please don't try and argue this point, pretty please. Go to any anonymous website where people can post anonymously and you see all the vuglar racial hatred towards Obama.


Oh please may I? Go to google and search 'George W Bush as monkey' and see how many hits you get. Vulgar racial hatred is for those people that can't discuss obamas's policies, and I think that gets pointed out just because Obama happens to be black. It actually ticks me off a bit that Obama can't be publicly depicted as a monkey because he's black. Is that not discrimination too? The cartoons of bush were in nationally publicized articles. Are we not allowed to insult this president because he's black? Where's the equality in that?


Can you answer my question?

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Quote:
This is why we can never have meaningful dialogue in this country.

instead of addressing the issue, you went straight into defense mode, and went with the typical "yea but, look what they do".

Didn't you start the thread with "who cares?" tongue


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Just take away all the law there and like the thugs dispose of themselves.

They already tried that, they rioted and burned property and businesses of a lot of innocent people.


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Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Honest question, how does a city that is almost 70% black end up with a mayor that is white and a city council that is 80% white?


Damn fine question DC. How can that even happen?


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Originally Posted By: Swish
This is why we can never have meaningful dialogue in this country.

instead of addressing the issue, you went straight into defense mode, and went with the typical "yea but, look what they do".

We're not talking about what others do. we're not talking about what whites or blacks do other places. we are talking about what FERGUSON PD does.

And its jacked up. stick to the topic.



I thought I was. The DOJ found no correlation between race and the shooting of Michael Brown. The officer was cleared of any wrongdoing both by local jury and by the DOJ. The DOJ then does a full sweep of everything and anything they can find to prove their position of finding racism, and oddly enough they do. This keeps their narrative of racism going. AG Holder has been all about race ever since he was appointed to office, but only from one point of view. If he really wanted to end racism, he would have investigated the black panther party at the polls as well as he did the Ferguson PD. A black racist is just as wrong as a white racist, or an Asian racist, or a Persian racist in my book.

Now tell me, as the USAG was involved in this issue, am I not supposed to talk about my opinion of him? He was involved in this issue, correct? The entire article shows me that the AG and his office failed to find any racism for the Brown incident, so they dug until they found some perceived wrongdoing. They could find that in any office in the country, law enforcement or not. This seems more of a "seek and ye shall find" investigation than proof of any illegal activities.

How's that for staying on the topic?


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Originally Posted By: ErikInHell
Originally Posted By: Swish
This is why we can never have meaningful dialogue in this country.

instead of addressing the issue, you went straight into defense mode, and went with the typical "yea but, look what they do".

We're not talking about what others do. we're not talking about what whites or blacks do other places. we are talking about what FERGUSON PD does.

And its jacked up. stick to the topic.



I thought I was. The DOJ found no correlation between race and the shooting of Michael Brown. The officer was cleared of any wrongdoing both by local jury and by the DOJ. The DOJ then does a full sweep of everything and anything they can find to prove their position of finding racism, and oddly enough they do. This keeps their narrative of racism going. AG Holder has been all about race ever since he was appointed to office, but only from one point of view. If he really wanted to end racism, he would have investigated the black panther party at the polls as well as he did the Ferguson PD. A black racist is just as wrong as a white racist, or an Asian racist, or a Persian racist in my book.

Now tell me, as the USAG was involved in this issue, am I not supposed to talk about my opinion of him? He was involved in this issue, correct? The entire article shows me that the AG and his office failed to find any racism for the Brown incident, so they dug until they found some perceived wrongdoing. They could find that in any office in the country, law enforcement or not. This seems more of a "seek and ye shall find" investigation than proof of any illegal activities.

How's that for staying on the topic?


You started going off on a tangent with the POTUS of obama and bush. that was not on topic.

anyways, What did you honestly expect from Holder? I don't agree with him even most of the time, but I understand that he grew up during a time when racism was at its worst probably. It's hard to just turn that off for people like him. He's in a position where he needs to be balanced, but he's also in a position to actually make a difference with regards to race relations.

and what other point of view should look at? He's not white, or anything else. It's crazy because with regards to this and Ferguson, the white FBI director made a statement about the same stuff Holder sees, yet Holder gets all the flack.

There's an issue in Ferguson. The fact that the demographics is mostly black, yet the people in charge aren't even remotely half way mixed. Hell, at least in Cleveland, there's a good number of black and hispanic cops. people want to feel they can relate to the law.


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Originally Posted By: Damanshot
Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
Honest question, how does a city that is almost 70% black end up with a mayor that is white and a city council that is 80% white?


Damn fine question DC. How can that even happen?


I addressed this in one of the previous threads on Ferguson.

They have a strange election schedule, where they elect city officials entirely in off-year elections.

Why that means that those who oppose the politics of the current administration cannot run their candidates and oppose those in office is beyond me. Some opined that because such a candidate would be running against the machine, he'she would stand no chance, but with the publicity and reaction that the recent problems there had, I* think that such a candidate could win rather easily.

Of course, IIRC, in the last local election, only 11% of the total Black registered voters showed up to vote.


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Originally Posted By: Swish
There's an issue in Ferguson. The fact that the demographics is mostly black, yet the people in charge aren't even remotely half way mixed. Hell, at least in Cleveland, there's a good number of black and hispanic cops. people want to feel they can relate to the law.


Please see the post below yours. It states, "Of course, IIRC, in the last local election, only 11% of the total Black registered voters showed up to vote." Maybe they are creating their own problem. If you refuse to be represented as you see fit, then you deserve to not be represented as you see fit.


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This study, nor my post, isn't about the specific incident. The post shares a factual account of systemic bigotry and racism throughout their police department.

You will see my feelings if you read my reply to Swish above as to what I would've done.

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Of course, IIRC, in the last local election, only 11% of the total Black registered voters showed up to vote.


There is answer. It may be 80% minority, but if they won't vote, it makes no difference at all.


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Can you really blame them for not voting? African Americans, as well as minorities as a whole, have lived through broken promises. Continually segregated schools, lowest rate of social mobility among developed nations, and police brutality do nothing but reinforce nothing will ever change.

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Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
Can you really blame them for not voting? African Americans, as well as minorities as a whole, have lived through broken promises. Continually segregated schools, lowest rate of social mobility among developed nations, and police brutality do nothing but reinforce nothing will ever change.


Rocket - THOSE are the reasons they SHOULD vote - not the reason's they shouldn't.

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Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
Can you really blame them for not voting? African Americans, as well as minorities as a whole, have lived through broken promises. Continually segregated schools, lowest rate of social mobility among developed nations, and police brutality do nothing but reinforce nothing will ever change.


Don't blame them for not voting and make excuses but don't then turn around and blame the people who do. Really?


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The last individual who acted on meaningful change for the impoverished, of all races, was assassinated in Memphis. There has been no Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., or similar figure which fights for the impoverished.

Too many people are willing to go with the status quo in order to secure a lifetime career in politics.

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Originally Posted By: RocketOptimist
The last individual who acted on meaningful change for the impoverished, of all races, was assassinated in Memphis. There has been no Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr., or similar figure which fights for the impoverished.

Too many people are willing to go with the status quo in order to secure a lifetime career in politics.



I don't mean to sound harsh, but I don't think you're getting it. If the people of Feguson don't like how politics in their city works, they should vot in people that will change it. Geez, talk about accepting the status quo? They apparently are. And if that's the case, why gripe about it?

Honestly, if people are too lazy to get up, walk or drive to the voting booth on election day, and cast their vote, there's not much hope for them. Be that in Ferguson, or across the country.

It's easy to sit on your butt and gripe and play victim, right?

Ferguson doesn't need a Martin Luther, or a Ghandi......they have a right to vote - so DO it.

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It is the masses that will create change. MLK roused the masses to follow him. With as much apathy present within the community, they will wait for change to be created by others while complaining and participating in criminal activity. Will not work.

Now the tax payers pay for a civil suit against Wilson and the city of Ferguson. Guess Holder's investigation was not adequate because the outcome was not the desired one. What will be next? We can no longer arrest criminals?


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Of course, IIRC, in the last local election, only 11% of the total Black registered voters showed up to vote.

From what I read on wiki, the TOTAL voter turnout was 12% of all registered voters.

All 3 candidates were white men.

My guess is, and this is just a guess... that the 70% black population didn't feel like anybody running represented them... so evidently before they can vote, they need somebody to vote FOR.


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I agree the African-American community needs to be more involved with voting, but I think it goes beyond being too lazy. It's not at all difficult for me to find the time, transportation and motivation, but I can't say the same for everyone. I'm sure economics has as much or more to do with it than ethnicity.

I'm not making excuses, just mildly disagreeing.

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Originally Posted By: DCDAWGFAN
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Of course, IIRC, in the last local election, only 11% of the total Black registered voters showed up to vote.

From what I read on wiki, the TOTAL voter turnout was 12% of all registered voters.

All 3 candidates were white men.

My guess is, and this is just a guess... that the 70% black population didn't feel like anybody running represented them... so evidently before they can vote, they need somebody to vote FOR.


And....why don't they have anyone to vote for?


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If you have the motivation, you will find the time and the transportation.


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Originally Posted By: rockdogg
I agree the African-American community needs to be more involved with voting, but I think it goes beyond being too lazy. It's not at all difficult for me to find the time, transportation and motivation, but I can't say the same for everyone. I'm sure economics has as much or more to do with it than ethnicity.

I'm not making excuses, just mildly disagreeing.


Bet many find ways to get to activities and other things they find important. Arrange rides like they did when Obama was elected or car pool. Seemed they all were able to converge to loot, steal and burn the community. No transportation problem there.


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