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Was just digging through some clips and thought I was watching a Mingo highlight tape...Virginia LB Max Valles reminds me a lot of Mingo...All I've collected Valles is supposed to go round 4-6 or so...Not saying to draft the guy, but my god he is a near clone to Mingo. P.S. I always thought Virginia ran a 3-4 (can't say I've watched more than a moment of any of their games the past couple years)

Watch this clip...

Max Valles - Virginia Football - OLB - 2014 Louisville Game: http://youtu.be/L4H4Yi-R0kA

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Mingo,healed shoulder and all, needs to get in that backfield this year or I'm afraid the fans will be prepared to write him off fully. Some have already wrote him off.

I'm hoping they add another rusher to go alongside Kruger. Maybe this dude is a good later-round option!

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Yeah I really think Mingo needs to get a lot stronger and learn the position more...thus hopefully ending all those false steps he takes...improve tackling technique, and tenacity...learn a couple more moves as well. I haven't seen a LB on our squad get pushed around so easy in perhaps forever...I guess we will see the real Mingo this year, and I'm hoping he's much better.

I just noticed with Max Valles he's high cut, long, wiry just like Mingo...takes him self out of some plays...but does get his hands up to bat balls down...I know coaches have really talked Mingo up, Valles looks to be a Mingo clone, And I think adding to our OLB core is much needed...perhaps an OLB like Akeem Ayers or Morgan from Tennessee and even a mid round draft pick...Would love to push Kruger down on the Dline on 3rd downs and utilize different looks.

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I assumed this was about Vic Beasley...


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Mingo is so great, he can almost play with one arm......... rofl

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fixed it for ya...

Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
Mingo is so great, he can almost play with two arms......... rofl


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Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
Mingo is so great, he can almost play with one arm......... rofl


Now wait a minute Super! Does Mingo become more affective, provided he is healthy, if the DL plays better? When Mangini brought in big guys to play LB, forget the old part, we thought they were slow struggling in coverage. Yet, the concept was they can take on blockers. Mingo is the opposite he is athletic and fast. Compare Mingo with Sheard. Which is a better fit for Pettine/O'Neal's defensive scheme? Who fits better with QBs today running the football?

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Quote:
Yet, the concept was they can take on blockers


I don't believe this is correct, but I'm no expert. One ILB is asked to take on blockers. The other was asked to tackle profusely. The OLBs were asked to pass rush and set edge, when necessary- perceived running plays. But outside of that, their main job is to attack the QB. I feel like, not matter the 3-4 approach you install, OLBs are critical to your pass rush.

Maybe, I'm wrong but I see this 34 defense very similar to Mangini's/Crennell's and further away from Horton's....particularly where the DL jobs are concerned, but that's a different topic. But the common theme is they need to be able to pass rush effectively.

We can talk about Mingo being more in coverage or setting the edge better than Sheard (debatable) but he will need have to be able to get after the QB first and foremost.

Maybe I am not understanding what you mean by asked to take on blockers? If so, my bad. I assume all def. players are expected to take on blockers...if you're good, teams scheme to neutralize you or if your bad, they run in your direction.

Again, OLBs will need to get after the passer. I hope Mingo can and he certainly showed flashes of it. But there were times he disappeared for games, IMO.


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The next Barkevious Mingo is LSU's Jemauria Rasco.

In 2012, Mingo had 4.5 sacks, 38 tackles, 8.5 TFL, 12 QBH, 1 FF playing DE in LSU's contain scheme.
In 2013, Rasco had 4.0 sacks to lead the team, 56 tackles, 6.5 TFL, 8 QBH, 1 FF.
In 2014 he again had 4.0 sacks to lead the team, 71 tackles, 7.5 TFL, 8 QBH, 1 FF.

Mingo is 6'4 1/4" with 33 3/4" arms, a 4.53 40 yard dash, 6.84 3-Cone, 37" vertical and weighed 241 at the combine.
Rasco was not invited to the combine but I believe he has similar height and arm length. He has a quick first step (not as good as Mingo's) and is sturdier than Mingo.

You know he can contain the edge (like Mingo) playing in LSU's defense regularly the past two years.

Even their names feel similar...

Bar-kee-vee-us Min-go
Je-mau-ree-uh Ras-co

It's almost like he's the store brand Mingo. 6th round pick.

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Originally Posted By: bugs
Originally Posted By: SuperBrown
Mingo is so great, he can almost play with one arm......... rofl


Now wait a minute Super! Does Mingo become more affective, provided he is healthy, if the DL plays better? When Mangini brought in big guys to play LB, forget the old part, we thought they were slow struggling in coverage. Yet, the concept was they can take on blockers. Mingo is the opposite he is athletic and fast. Compare Mingo with Sheard. Which is a better fit for Pettine/O'Neal's defensive scheme? Who fits better with QBs today running the football?

Bugs
My football knowledge is thin comparing the LB fits. I think Mingo, once healthy, will be serviceable. But it looks to me like another first round bust. First rounders are to be far more than serviceable.

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I equate him to Kam Wimbley..

If they can't learn a new besides "I'm fast" they won't be that good..


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Originally Posted By: ThatGuy
I equate him to Kam Wimbley..

If they can't learn a new besides "I'm fast" they won't be that good..
Yea, I'm with you I really don't want another Mingo. Think i'll pass.

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I think Mingo will surprise us this year. I just have a feeling he will do very well.


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Originally Posted By: Razorthorns
I think Mingo will surprise us this year. I just have a feeling he will do very well.


Same. He was not even bad in 2014. Hopefully if his shoulder is healed he can be a major asset.

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http://draftbreakdown.com/video/d-j-humphries-vs-lsu-2014/

Check out this video. Rasco is #59. He's the guy in the long sleeves typically lined up at left end. You can see how quick he is off the ball compared to Danielle Hunter (RE #94) who is considered a borderline 1st/2nd rounder. Also, his arms look super long. I think a late pickup of Rasco would be awesome for our depth at pass rusher.

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He does remind me a lot of Mingo...not only the LSU connection but the frame and weaknesses as well...I definitely think we need added insurance at OLB, as we are thin there...we don't know if Mingo will be any better than decent...what if Kruger was to go down? So its definitely nice looking into some late round candidates

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I never got all the hate on Mingo, other than Banner's regime drafted him.

Heck, the year before we drafted TRich and Weeden. Two busts to the ultimate degree.

The year after, we drafted Gilbert and Manziel.........thus far, both have sucked eggs.

Both of those draft classes were amongst the best ever.

Mingo's draft class was amongst the worst ever.

Yet, Mingo has played a ton of snaps on defense and is on most special teams plays. He hasn't gotten into trouble. He played through an tough injury. He doesn't miss practices or isn't late to meetings. He isn't in rehab. He isn't called out by coaches and teammates, and is instead.......praised by both.

He actually has produced, unlike the other four.

Yet, people bad-mouth him all the time and don't talk about how stupid it was to draft TRich/Weeden and Gilbert/Manziel.

Odd.................very odd.

Then again............deep down, we all know the answer to why that is, right?

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I'm not sure what you mean about the reason for people not liking Mingo, Vers. Joe Banner? Racism? I just don't know what you're getting at.

I gained a TON of respect for Mingo this year, the way he played with a bad wing. His rookie year, he was healthier, but was light and a project. I think he still has a chance to be a breakout guy.

There were two other guys in that draft that were similar, one the Oregon guy Miami drafted and the other the guy the Steelers took, with the narrow spine or whatever. I still think Mingo was a better pick than wither of them.

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My point?

TRich and Weeden were disasters. They were drafted by H and H. The mob loved H and H and they could do no wrong.

Mingo was drafted by Banner's regime. The mob hated him and Lombardi and they could do no right.

Gilbert and Manziel were drafted by Farmer, who replaced Banner/Lombardi, thus the mob thinks they can do no wrong.

My point is that thus far, even though Mingo receives a ton of grief, he has proven to be a better player than any of the other four players that were picked by the favorable regimes.

Put it this way..............I am more than tired of reading how Mingo sucks and how so many people EXPECT that Gilbert will have a great year.

What?

Based on what?

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People have concerns about Mingo because he has not become the pass rusher he was supposed to become.

I know that we have agreed that Mingo has been a lot better in the other areas of the game, and has become a more well rounded player, but the simple fact is that people still expected him to become something different/better than he has.

It doesn't matter that other 1st rounders we have had have failed, any more than the fact that Courtney Browns suffered so many injuries and never became what we hoped he would made people think more highly of Gerard Warren. Warren was a solid pro player, but he never became what he was expected/drafted to be.

That's how I look at it anyway. I like the way that Mingo has worked hard to develop his game in a more well rounded manner, and the fact that he played hard all last year with a fairly major injury to his shoulder, and never gave up. he has not been a bust, but he also has not been the huge pass rush threat we hoped for. In looking at him in that specific role that he was supposed to fill, he has not been a success.


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Based on what?


You need to watch this team with a suspension of disbelief.

At the heart we all know how dismal this all is. Some like to have some hope that maybe things will get better. Ragging on everyone with how awful things really are does no good; especially when we're just fans with no actual power in the organization. Phil Savage put it the best with "go root for Buffalo", honestly.

In other words:


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I don't understand what Mingo's lack of production has anything to do with first round picks of 2012 and 2014. This is poor logic.

Looks to me like they're all bad. Or are we trying to make the argument which one looks 'less' bad?

Mingo was someone I really wanted in 2013 but overall he's not lived up to expectations. It is as simple as that. Now, unlike some who cast off players after one year, I do hold out hope for Mingo in 2015. However, there isn't much hope left after two very sub-par years.


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I thought I remind everyone who was drafted in the first round in 2013. You tell me who Browns should have drafted instead of Mingo.

1. Eric Fisher
2. Luke Joeckel
3. Dion Jordan
4. Lane Johnson
5. Ezekiel Ansah
6. Barkevious Mingo
7. Jonathan Cooper
8. Tavon Austin
9. Dee Milliner
10. Chance Warmack
11. D.J. Fluker
12. D.J. Hayden
13. Sheldon Richardson
14. Star Lotulelei
15. Kenny Vaccaro
16. EJ Manuel
17. Jarvis Jones
18. Eric Reid
19. Justin Pugh
20. Kyle Long
21. Tyler Eifert
22. Desmond Trufant
23. Sharrif Floyd
24. Bjoern Werner
25. Xavier Rhodes
26. Datone Jones
27. DeAndre Hopkins
28. Sylvester Williams
29. Cordarrelle Patterson
30. Alec Ogletree
31. Travis Frederick
32. Matt Elam

Looking at this list Mingo doesn't look at all bad. Wow, what a poor draft class there maybe half a dozen worthy picks.

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I thought I remind everyone who was drafted in the first round in 2013. You tell me who Browns should have drafted instead of Mingo.


I think people are upset that we pushed aside the trade w/ STL that Banner said was offered but passed up on.

Listing the draft picks doesn't seem productive. I could make the same argument with the players selected after Trent Richardon-- Kalil, Claiborne, Barron, Blackmon, Tannehill aren't lighting it up either. Does that mean Richardson is a better pick because of that? Of course not.


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Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
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I thought I remind everyone who was drafted in the first round in 2013. You tell me who Browns should have drafted instead of Mingo.


I think people are upset that we pushed aside the trade w/ STL that Banner said was offered but passed up on.

Listing the draft picks doesn't seem productive. I could make the same argument with the players selected after Trent Richardon-- Kalil, Claiborne, Barron, Blackmon, Tannehill aren't lighting it up either. Does that mean Richardson is a better pick because of that? Of course not.


People were upset when Banner traded with Pittsburgh for drafts picks in the next draft.

Browns took Mingo. Everyone is calling bust. Most of those guys in that draft are busts. A lot of Browns fans were angry Banner/Lombardi passed on Tavon Austin.

As for Richardson pick, I like how you stopped listing picks after Tannihill! Next few were Luke Kuechly, Stephon Gilmore, Dontari Poe, Fletcher Cox, Michael Floyd, Michael Brockers, Bruce Irvin, and Quinton Coples would have all been nice to trade down to get.

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Originally Posted By: bugs
Originally Posted By: MemphisBrownie
Quote:
I thought I remind everyone who was drafted in the first round in 2013. You tell me who Browns should have drafted instead of Mingo.


I think people are upset that we pushed aside the trade w/ STL that Banner said was offered but passed up on.

Listing the draft picks doesn't seem productive. I could make the same argument with the players selected after Trent Richardon-- Kalil, Claiborne, Barron, Blackmon, Tannehill aren't lighting it up either. Does that mean Richardson is a better pick because of that? Of course not.


People were upset when Banner traded with Pittsburgh for drafts picks in the next draft.

Browns took Mingo. Everyone is calling bust. Most of those guys in that draft are busts. A lot of Browns fans were angry Banner/Lombardi passed on Tavon Austin.

As for Richardson pick, I like how you stopped listing picks after Tannihill! Next few were Luke Kuechly, Stephon Gilmore, Dontari Poe, Fletcher Cox, Michael Floyd, Michael Brockers, Bruce Irvin, and Quinton Coples would have all been nice to trade down to get.


I stopped listing those players because none of them were going to be drafted with the #3 pick and we don't know of any possible trade down that would have made other players a possibility. Kuechly comes closest, I'll give you that but no one expected him at #3, Did you? I doubt it. Quinton Coples? Yeah, ok.

Listing all 32 players in 2013 makes little sense to me when talking about the number #6 pick in the draft. It comes down to Mingo vs the trade-- and even with the trade package as an unknown just as much as the players who could have been a part of it, I would bet most would consider a do over.

I'm not calling Mingo a bust, although he is close, and I won't call the 32 players you listed in 2013 either. But the case can easily be made that (in hindsight) fans would prefer the trade now than what Mingo has provided in terms of value.

By the way, can you explain what Banner trading picks in rd. 4 has to do with Mingo? Actually, most people weren't upset w/ trading with Pittsburgh. Many liked it...But I for one didn't simply because I don't like trading picks within your own division.


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Let's see... new coach bad team, and your trade away picks to build for the future... How did that work out for Chud?


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Originally Posted By: ChargerDawg
Let's see... new coach bad team, and your trade away picks to build for the future... How did that work out for Chud?


Just as good as the picks that were actually used in 2013.


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Memphis, I listed the entire first round pointing the alternatives. You pointed out Banner should have excepted the St. Louis trade. Why, to get more picks in that draft? 2013 draft class was horrible. My point on the Pittsburgh trade explained how fans were disappointed Browns didn't make that pick. Can you imagine what would have happen if Banner traded the #1 pick for future year picks? Which if you really think Mingo is close to a bust, you would think that was a smarter play. Maybe that was Banner's intention and St. Louis did not like.

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Originally Posted By: bugs
Memphis, I listed the entire first round pointing the alternatives. You pointed out Banner should have excepted the St. Louis trade. Why, to get more picks in that draft? 2013 draft class was horrible. My point on the Pittsburgh trade explained how fans were disappointed Browns didn't make that pick. Can you imagine what would have happen if Banner traded the #1 pick for future year picks? Which if you really think Mingo is close to a bust, you would think that was a smarter play. Maybe that was Banner's intention and St. Louis did not like.


I did not say Banner should have accepted to trade. In fact, when Mingo was selected I wanted him to be the pick and was happy the trade didn't follow through. What I did say a few posts back is that looking at the value of Mingo so far people are upset the trade didn't happen. I understand that sentiment.

Quote:
Can you imagine what would have happen if Banner traded the #1 pick for future year picks?
I suspect fans would be initially upset at not having a pick in the first two rounds, but that's irrelevant really and probably wouldn't even be the case regarding where getting future picks are concerned. It's about getting the selection or the decision right. Mingo is trending in the direction that the pick was wrong and the better decision would have been to take the trade deal.

For some context, STL later made a deal with Buffalo to take Tavon Austin, who was most likely their target when they approached us. Buffalo received:

STL first rounder (16) their second rounder (46) and a seventh. They also swapped thirds six spots apart. If a deal was struck w/ us the terms would have been better because were were a couple spots higher, but probably not all that much better. The #16 pick would have been included. Some players around that spot could have been:

Kyle Long
Desmond Trufant
Xavier Rhodes
Datone Jones
Deandre Hopkins

At the #46:
Kiko Alonso
La'veon Bell
Jon Bostic
Eddie Lacy
Travis Kelce
etc., etc.

Quote:
Maybe that was Banner's intention and St. Louis did not like.


Banner made it clear that they declined the offer, not the other way around.


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I hate mingo because he sucks.

a #6 project who was suppose to be a pass rusher, then a coverage LB, and sucks at both.

It's not his fault he was drafted #6 overall, but you know what? He needs to be held to the same standard as any other 1st round draft pick.

I don't pick and choose based off what regime a player was drafted in. If he sucks, he sucks.


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Except he doesn't suck. At all. He is average at worst. You just refuse to look at the evidence.

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Originally Posted By: clevesteve

Even their names feel similar...

Bar-kee-vee-us Min-go
Je-mau-ree-uh Ras-co


Kam-ur-un Wim-bley


very, very close ... there may be some science to this.


Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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