DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Univ. of Oklahoma severs ties with frat after racist chant

http://news.yahoo.com/ou-fraternity-close-racist-video-posted-online-040106571.html

NORMAN, Okla. (AP) — The president of the University of Oklahoma severed the school's ties with a national fraternity on Monday and ordered that its on-campus house be shuttered after several members took part in a racist chant caught on video.

President David Boren said he was sickened and couldn't eat or sleep after learning about the video Sunday afternoon. The video, which was posted online, shows several people on a bus participating in a chant that included a racial slur, referenced lynching and indicated black students would never be admitted to OU's chapter of Sigma Alpha Epsilon.

The Oklahoma football team decided to protest rather than practice on Monday. At the team's indoor practice facility, coach Bob Stoops led the way as players, joined by athletic director Joe Castiglione, walked arm-in-arm, wearing black.

Boren attended a pre-dawn rally organized by students and lambasted those fraternity members as "disgraceful" and called their behavior "reprehensible." He said the university was looking into a range of punishment, including expulsion.

"This is not who we are," Boren said at a midday news conference. "I'd be glad if they left. I might even pay the bus fare for them."

National leaders of Sigma Alpha Epsilon said late Sunday that its investigation confirmed members took part in the chant and announced it would close the local chapter. The national group said it was "embarrassed" by the "unacceptable and racist" behavior.

Boren said members have until midnight Tuesday to remove their belongings from the fraternity house. He said the fraternity was "not totally forthcoming," and he was still trying to find out who was on the bus so the school could consider disciplinary actions.

He said the university's legal staff is exploring whether the students who initiated and encouraged the chant may have violated Title VI of the Civil Rights Act, which prohibits racial discrimination.

"We are also going to look at any individual perpetrators, particularly those that we think took a lead in this kind of activity," Boren said.

White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest said the efforts by the university and the national fraternity to repudiate the racist comments were "an appropriate step."

It's unclear who recorded the video, when it was recorded and who initially posted it online. Boren suggested it was likely taken by another student who didn't agree with what was being chanted.

OU Unheard, a black student group on campus, posted a link to the video after someone anonymously called it to the group's attention Sunday afternoon, communications director Alexis Hall said Monday.

"We immediately needed to share that with the OU student body," said Hall, a junior. "For students to say they're going to lynch an entire group of people. ... It's disgusting."

The video appears to have been taken on a charter bus, with at least one of the chanting young men wearing a tuxedo.

Telephone and email messages left Monday with several current members of the fraternity seeking comment on the video were not returned. Other members declined to comment.

"I was shocked they were just doing it openly on the bus, like they were proud of it," said Jared Scarborough, a junior in construction science. "From the chant you could tell they had done it before. It wasn't a first-time thing. And it was everybody. And the fist-pumping."

North Mesquite High School football star Jean Delance, a top offensive lineman prospect, told a Texas radio station he withdrew his commitment to OU after he learned about the video. He said he spoke Sunday night with coach Bob Stoops, but wasn't told about the incident.

"I'm very disappointed in the coaches not letting me know. 'Hey jean, this is going on. Be aware. I don't want you to be shocked tomorrow when you wake up,'" Delance told Dallas/Fort Worth station KRLD. "But that was just heart-breaking right there."

A university police cruiser was parked Monday outside the fraternity house, a sprawling two-story, sand-colored brick building on a street lined with Greek houses just west of the center of campus. The Greek letters were removed from the side of the house Monday afternoon.

The University of Oklahoma, located in the southern Oklahoma City suburb of Norman, has about 27,000 students, about 5 percent of whom are black. The Greek system is largely segregated.

Boren said fraternity members had "violated all that we stand for."

"Effective immediately, all ties and affiliations between this University and the local SAE chapter are hereby severed. I direct that the house be closed and that members will remove their personal belongings from the house by midnight tomorrow," he said in a statement.

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Associated Press writer Allen Reed contributed to this report from Little Rock, Arkansas.

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All I'm going to say is that the state of Oklahoma is on a roll.

First it was taking away classes and history books because of negatives in America, now this. Before it was "black wall street" incident in 921.

I hate that state with a passion. So glad I got out of there.

edit: in before "but but but blacks say this and this".

Yes, but THIS is what the topic is right now. discuss THIS.

I like that so many gathered together to protest what these "frat boys" did.

including coach Stoops.

Did I not see you posting in another thread, a supportive message of Charlie Hebdo and his insulting of the entire Muslim world? His insults were ok with you but these "Frat Boys" shenanigans are bad?

What gives?

Waka Flocka Flame also cancelled his tour date at Oklahoma lol.

Who????

Anyway, I see no need for racist speech under any circumstances, but I also worry about freedom of speech issues. I am glad that so many came out against such hateful speech, but does banning such things ever work, or does it just allow those kinds of feelings to fester and grow, without an outlet? I would assume that there is a section of the fraternity charter that bans such speech, and that had to be enforced, but the banning of the frat will have less of an impact than the multitude of people who spoke out against their words.

As far as the rapper goes, I doubt that racists were lining up for tickets to his show(s) ..... so his cancelling a show there only hurts those who would have enjoyed his show, and attended it. It is actually a victory for those who espouse racists ideas and ideals, because he is not punishing those people at all, and is, in fact, rewarding them by cancelling his show.

You have the right to freedom of speech.

Freedom of consequences from hateful speech is a different subject.

Much of the speech that began this country on the road to independence was extremely hateful. Think about what was said about England in those days, and about those who remained loyal to the crown.

I get your point, but I worry that we sometimes go too far in "punishing" speech. We run the risk of becoming a society where people are afraid to speak in any manner other than the "acceptable" manner. It is often better to get truly vile ideas out into the open, because as the axiom says: "sunlight is often the best disinfectant".

I think that the way people stood up to this was entirely appropriate, and proper. I worry about institutions taking action to destroy a group because of their speech though. (especially as the 1st option) I admit that I don't know the whole history of the group in question though.

40YEARSWAITING... smh For somebody with so few talking points and very little to convey, you sure pipe-in on a lot of conversations and more often than not look like a total jerk doing so. If you can voice your opinions here (even if all your opinions are spoon fed to you by FOX News), then he can have two opinions on two very different threads.
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As to how I feel about this, meh... Over the years I've seen much worse than this spew out of the mouths of both whites and blacks about each other, although rarely in mixed company. It is blatant racism and it will ALWAYS exist.

Swish do you watch the Simpsons? That show is crazy racial (racial not racist or maybe not) I don't see the whining about that? I don't see the whining about a lot of things that don't personally offend. I find it all offensive, but also accept that I cannot change it but I can ignore it and not lend it any power over me.

I don't like to see anyone hurt by these things but the simple truth is it will never stop. EVER. So we can either sack up and learn to despise the cowardice of an act like this, then move on; or we can fall apart at the seams every time our feelings get ruffled. Personally, I listen to hillbilly jokes all day long sometimes and they offend the hell out of me. I hear blacks call me all kinds of names just because I'm white. I have entire countries that would kill me given a chance just because I'm an American. AND there are probably aliens that would kill me just for being a human... So these kids are racists punks that would crap their pants if a few of those black ball players got in their faces... And when they get back home after being expelled they still be racist. NOTHING YOU CAN DO, MOVE ON.

So you have heard of him

The comment was in jest. Also, Frat kids love Waka. I'm sure these kids are no different

Think about how hateful the speech was towards black people back then. Oh wait. Forgot black people don't come into history until after Slavery.

Look, we can talk about freedom of speech and freedom of consequences in a vacuum for strictly white people in America. In that vacuum we'll see "crushing" blows dealt to white people. But, outside of that vacuum, in the real world, these kids got a slap on the wrist.

40YEARSWAITING... smh For somebody with so few talking points and very little to convey, you sure pipe-in on a lot of conversations and more often than not look like a total jerk doing so. If you can voice your opinions here (even if all your opinions are spoon fed to you by FOX News), then he can have two opinions on two very different threads.
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Well,said.

I agree. Man some of the stuff blacks say is down right stupid. all races have a chosen few who screw it up.

The reason I posted this wasn't because I found it racist, because there's black Frats that are just as bad,

I was simply trying to point out how jacked up of a state Oklahoma is,

I mean...God. You got politicians in oklahoma, and people who support them, wanting to ban AP courses and history class because it isn't "ra-ra" USA #1", because they are teaching HISTORY, the good and bad.

education and racism almost goes hand and hand. most people, at least in my experience, who are uneducated happen to be racist as all hell.

So yea, Oklahoma is batting a thousand. This frat, the education, birth control, and I'm sorry but I can never forget that part of Oklahoma history of Tulsa 1921. Holy crap, Oklahoma.

Oklahoma is OK... lol

You have an attachment there or experiences there anyway. I've been through it a couple times and nothing more, so I really don't notice.

I agree YTown. I've always believed anybody who thought that they shouldn't say anything because they'd be called a racist should say what they want and be prepared to have a discussion with others, as long as it was an actual discussion.

If the frat boys hadn't done this then the others who opposed this behavior wouldn't have had the opportunity to show their united disagreement. People should say what they want as long as you and I are allowed to express our disagreement with them.

There's freedom of speech, but like always, you can't shout, "FIRE!" in a theater. I think the chanting these kids did was wrong enough to be receive a consequence. I imagine the national fraternity cab return with the promise of changing their behavior and I think the behavior in this circumstance was less free speech and more inciting hate speech because of the fact that it was an organization. If one or a few of the frat boys had engaged in this speech then they might had found themselves discussing their opinions with others rather than having their fraternity closed.
jmho

Well, I point out the hypocrisy of one man's free and insulting speech being considered ok while another man's free and insulting speech is evil in the minds of people here. Each speaker said what they did in the context of humor, everyone was having a good laugh while saying what they said but one is ok and one isn't.

And what intelligent reply do I get from such self proclaimed educated and enlightened people? Personal insults. Typical.

I think President Boren acted swiftly and appropriately in shutting down this fraternity. That chant was vile and the over-whelming feeling around here is those kids should be given to the football team and whatever is left should be expelled.

Here's another bit of Hypocrisy from the thread entitled "A Personal Plea To The Board" thread...

OldColdDawg says...

"Yep. I get sick of all the Nancies acting like idiots, calling each other names and fighting like rugrats. You don't have to call each other stupid..."

It's not necessary for me to reply by calling you names you have already called yourself.

One of you college people are gonna have to help me out on this.

Don't fraternity members have to come from families of influence?

It disappoints me because I thought that the vast majority of us had matured beyond this but these guys had to be raised like this.

Unbelievable.

Nope. Threatening physical violence leading to death is never acceptable speech. Sorry.

Nope. Just gotta be a bro who's gonna bros with some bros. Oh yeah and pay them for it.

Yes and no. Frats are not the blazer wearing snobs portrayed in a lot of movies, they are normal college students. That said, joining and remaining a member of a frat can get a little pricey (one of the reasons I never joined one, plus in my association with them, they seemed like a nice place to visit and party but I didn't want to live there.) So if you are on a real tight budget, joining a frat could be difficult.

What the kids did is repulsive.. but I'm torn on whether or not they should be kicked out of school. Banning the frat, yea sure, whatever... but the individuals? As has been discussed many times here before, the first amendment protects people from retribution by the government for unpopular speech... the university is a government entity. I believe that taking the very literal interpretation that as long as the government isn't throwing you in jail or flogging you for what you said, then it has met it's obligation is a rather dangerous path to start down.

I understand that we have free speech, I also understand that exercising that right to speech can have consequences... but if those consequences are so swift and so severe (and enforced by the government) just for saying things, no matter how socially unpopular or embarrassing, then do we really have free speech or have we reached a level of tyranny through public intimidation?

If you are meeting all of the other requirements of the school, keeping your grades at a certain level, paying your bills, not committing any crimes or honor code violations (which is where they will probably nail these kids).. should they be able to kick you out just because they don't like what you believe? or because you expressed those beliefs in a very embarrassing way for the school? I think it is a very slippery slope...

If students of Washington University in St. Louis were video taped getting caught up in the riots in Ferguson, should they have been kicked out of school?

If a guy has a swastika tat on his arm, should he be kicked out of school?

If a group holds a prayer vigil in opposition to a gay rights rally, should they be kicked out of school?

While it is easy and very understandable to be disgusted with these kids, exactly what the university should do about it, is something that should be carefully considered not just for this act but for future precedent... and should not be done in the form of a save-face, emotional, knee-jerk reaction.

One final edit.. the majority of people have matured beyond this, that's why the reaction to it has been so aggressive.

You are right.

Post can't be deleted even after quoted poster changed his response.

Therefore the post 'field' has been emptied.

Please continue as if nothing ever happened.

Now I don't know what was said, but according to the article: "The video, which was posted online, shows several people on a bus participating in a chant that included a racial slur, referenced lynching and indicated black students would never be admitted to OU's chapter of Sigma Alpha Epsilon."

Now I don't know in what form lynching was referred to, but let's just imagine that it was along the lines of "Too bad this didn't happen to your parents", or something like that. Is that a threat, or just idiotic, and vile vulgarity?

There is a clear line between threatening someone, and calling someone a name. Without knowing precisely what they said, it's hard to know where they stand in regards to the law.

NRTU, not sure why it go the response messed up.

Yeah, that is messed up. lol

(Just messing with you)

Yeah, i didn't sleep much last night.

These are the lyrics of the chant that I found..

“There will never be a n***er SAE.
There will never be a n***er SAE.
You can hang ‘em from a tree,
But they’ll never [inaudible] with me.
There will never be a n***er SAE.”

The inaudible part is "sign".

Yep, that's disgusting, revolting, and vile, but probably not illegal.

Like I said in a PM, it sounds like a bunch of stupid kids who decided to pull a "look at me" stunt that backfired badly. (though I do admit that they very well could legitimately share racist ideas) I don't know if that is enough to warrant legal prosecution. I can see why the university would want to expel those students, but man, that starts a danger slippery slope. What level of vulgarity is such that they expel a student? What about when a person plays a song using that particular word, and/or expresses violent thoughts. What about if they sing one publicly?

I dunno. I suppose that the University probably has rules and bylaws regarding the conduct of frats, but this seems more stupid than anything else.

But they'll never sign with me...

That doesn't make any sense.

Oh wait, you meant SING... damn people from Oklahoma...

You know it's bad when people from North Carolina make fun of you...

The sad thing is that many will use the acts of some idiot white people to tarnish all white people that disagree with them as racist, just as some whites use urban black male youth crime as a basis to fear all black people. Please take responsibility for your own actions and do not allow others to place the responsibility of others onto you. I may be my brothers keeper but I am not his scapegoat. Always consider your best interest and never allow yourself to be pigeonholed into a stereotype.

at Case, SAE stood for "same buttholes everywhere." Looks like it's part of their admittance policy.

But "buttholes" doesn't start with an A... oh, nevermind. I get it now.

Don't let these silly libs get you down 40. They all preach diversity, and respect for people with different opinions. I guess thats just unlil someone disagrees with them. They might be hypocrites but they know whats best for us or think they do.

So much for accountability for ones actions with that approach.

Many times in our life we are faced with situational decisions. We question others, politics, religious, business leaders and essentially anyone else is not of the same belief of us. If challenged, we rationalize and then call it shaming if we still don't agree with a comment.

In business, a highly profitable deal would be called stealing if conducted between individuals. Just business, nothing personal.

The more difficult thing to do is to use judgement and not do something that is dishonest or degrading of others. I disdain all of the political correctness as much as others, but this is not one of them.

Oh I think that they are being held accountable. They are publicly being blasted by everyone not in their frat. They will, no doubt, be investigated for hate speech. They will be shunned by most people on campus. Their actions have consequences. The question is, are their actions illegal? If not, then is their speech protested, or do we place arbitrary limits on free speech? Where do we place those limits? The framers said that freedom of speech was not to protect popular speech, but the most unpopular speech.

I think that what these young men said was revolting, distasteful, and disgusting. That said, I also have to think that it is probably protected under the Constitution.

I agree that it is most likely protected by the Constitution.

The fire in the theater example is often used, but this is not the same as there are no immediate consequences.