DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Tony Grossi Upset w/ Browns in FA

I'm not really in "attack mode" toward Grossi either and I do agree with some of his points. It just seems he picks some odd things to back-up his opinion.

• Didn't make a move for Foles? Is that really a mistake?

• Showed interest in Revis who went on to sign with the Jets for $39 mil guaranteed? He makes it sound like we were willing to make the same commitment for him.

In my opinion he just makes bad arguments to state an otherwise good point.

You'd think a person in his position would know that we are still allowed to sign free agents after the first day.

Grossi is the president of all trolls.

I'm all in favor of getting FAs. For the money spent yesterday, any player making Browns playoff bound? I get "improve."

I'd be interested what Browns offered for Bradford. Rams couldn't give Bradford away with not getting at least some QB in return.

I like Skrine, but come on, 7 mil, 13 mil guaranteed, that's insane. Jets are looking to add Cromartie. Does that mean Jets are paying 7 mil for a slot DB? In the end, did the Jets make themselves contenders?

Did you approve Bills shopping spree? Jags? Either team have enough for a playoff or super bowl run?

I was hoping for Trent Cole, but he is 32. Browns better off drafting.

I get help is needed. Was anyone signed yesterday helping the Browns over the next 5 years?

What difference does a BIG contact have to do with this? Just because the Ravens don't have to spend as much as a team such as the Browns means nothing in this argument. They have been active in free agency and it has helped them win so yeah you're right, I win.

Dumervil was also cut, which means Baltimore didn't have to give up any compensatory picks. Same with Canty and Smith.

Every team signs free agents. Not everyone pays big money for them or signs them the first [few] days.

People need to be patient.

Grossi made some good points in his article. We have gotten worse while other teams have gotten better. Furthermore, what is the long term FA strategy of this team? We spent last year and filled holes, but this year we hear the whole "lets build through the draft" stuff. Why wasn't that the strategy last year then? Why the sudden change in tactics?

My problem with Grossi as a writer is he speaks out of both sides of his mouth when it comes to the Browns. I guarantee you if they would have signed 3/4 impact guys yesterday he would be griping because they aren't building the team the right way.

I get why people are mad...heck I'm not a fan of what they are doing. We still do not or have not executed a long term roster building plan in the past 15 years. The closest we have come was under Savage who apparently thought the best way to build was FA and trading draft picks for solid players. I'm not a fan of that strategy, but at least he had one.

These guys went from spouting off about needing veteran locker room leaders to change the culture last year to basically back to saying they are draft only again. I'm not a proponent of spending huge $$ in FA like we did last year in FA....any year. However, there is solid FAs out there to be had for the right price. For example, our very own Buster Skrine signed a decent deal in which we apparently didn't even make a decent offer to.

If they want to build through the draft fine, but then they shouldn't have signed over priced average guys on the back side of their careers to huge money deals last year. Instead maybe we use our cap space to keep our own FAs we drafted like Skrine, Gipson, Cameron, etc. and not create holes.....hard to build through the draft when you keep creating new holes that need filled by letting good players walk.

So, is he saying he didn't think much of Kyle Shanahan?

I'm throwing the BS Flag. THis offense moved very well in the beginning of the season.. Clearly something else went wrong but Grossi doesn't want to delve into that



Foles, yeah sure, maybe. But Bradford, please. I'm not questioning Bradfords ability. He just can't stay healthy. Once again with the Drama



What's wrong with Crow, West and Hartline? And when was it said that McCown is the last piece to the puzzle? Another bit of Drama from the Drama queen Grossi



Anyone wanna bet that if it hadn't been reported that they had interest in Revis, that Grossi would have called them on that as well.

BY the way, it was reported that they had interest in Revis, but it was reported by some reporter on Twitter. Doesn't anyone know if it was Grossi that started that rumor? Maybe the Browns didn't want Revis at all or maybe just not at the kinda number it would have taken. Again with the Drama Queen act



Damn, Grossi is as bad as some posters on various boards.. First of all, what does a draft whiff have to do with FA? Two different animals. And is anyone sure that those two guys were total whiffs yet? I'm not. I think Manziel may be, but I also think that Gilbert has a really good chance to succeed.



Wait, is he saying that the Bills HC walking away is a GOOD THING? Ha Ha,, if Pettine had resigned it would have meant that Haslam would have gotten slammed by Grossi.



Yeah, he's proven,, Proven to be a bit of a jerk. No thanks.. Too much bling, no substance!

It's all about spin with Grossi..

I thought the Skrine contract was very reasonable. Even if they do play him at slot, if an injury occurs, you really won't lose much by moving him outside. When you look at the market for CB's, Skrine was a pretty good deal.

Now we can have this "contender" debate all you like, but there are many pieces in order to be a "contender", not just one. Skrine makes their secondary better and deeper.



Did you disapprove of the Whitner and Dansby signings last year? I believe there's a difference in a shopping spree and addressing a couple of viable needs.



I think you're preaching to the choir here. I never said that I agreed with Grossi. What I said is that I understand many in the fan base who feel disappointed. But as far as signings that could have helped the Browns over the next five years? Of course there were! But I believe other than Skrine, for the most part you would have to have overpaid.

Many of us understand that it's a process that doesn't end in a day or two. I wasn't really speaking about myself on a personal level. Just that with so much disappointment in general among the fan base, they're looking and hoping for something big and get disappointed when they don't see it.

And for anyone who doesn't get disappointed with the prospect of entering the season with McCown and JFF as our top 2 QB's on the roster, well they are simply fooling themselves.

When he referred to Rex Ryan as a proven head coach, I stopped reading. I mean, what more do you need to read to prove Grossi is an idiot.

I mean, he could've meant that Ryan is proven to be a bad coach, but I doubt it, given the tone of the article. He only would have written that if it were the Browns who hired him

That could not possibly count towards the cap, could it, Elf? I would take it.

the only thing he has proven is that he can win if you hand him really good players. His best 2 years were his first two with the Jets.. as he brought in his own guys, he has gotten progressively worse.

The problem I hinted to is Haslam. As long as he's the clown he is, it won't matter much. I don't have faith in anyone doing their respective jobs for the Browns, but I do feel for Pettine. Wouldn't mind to give him the full 4-5 years, if the rest around him was solid, but problem is, it's even worse.

Farmer deserved fired over numerous things. He only has kept his job because Haslam didn't need more bad PR and ruin his already ruined reputation for good.

Might explain why I'm in total apathy. Can't even get excited or hopeful for the upcoming draft or this FA. They will add some decent players here and there, sure. But, as BW alluded to, there's not only no evident plan, spending in FA last year and then following it up with a draft full of projects, but there's also no competency. Those guys are all first timers at their job and you could tell so. Even when they lucked into a 7-4 start they couldn't handle it. 6 losses later and it's a mess already. Farmer and Haslam probably got delusions of grandeur and started interferring with the coaching at the first sign of struggle. The whole Manziel fiasco was the result of that. Undermining the HC and crippling his power in front of the team. Joe freaking Thomas spoke up, but these idiots were already full go ego tripping.

There's your problem. You can't demand honesty and accountability down the ladder when there's only finger-pointing and spineless behaviour at the top.

Blow it up now? It's pointless as long as Haslam hires his next puppets. And even if he realizes he has been part of the problem (fat chance, I know), nobody of note would want to work for/under him in any capacity, no matter the money. Again, we would be forced to hire noobs. Noob boob underlings for a noob boob owner, that's the Browns since Haslam. The stooges characterization was spot on

Edited to say: Sorry for the negativity, but that's honestly how I feel and see the state of the Browns. It's an apathy of epic proportions this time since it's the owner. The Mangini's and LomBanner's will leave eventually, even if the leave a mess, but there was always hope for better. I don't see anything at the end of the tunnel this time. Too bad Haslam wasn't convicted and stripped of the Browns, our kind of luck

Every year the Media ( to include Grossi ) slam the Browns Organization .. Every year the Board Dawg's go nuts tearing the Media a new --- ---- .. And every year the Media ( for the most part ) is right !

As far as I'm concerned, we're doing an OKAY job right now.

The first step in this process was KEEPING both Ray Farmer and Mike Pettine, that's a step in the right direction. Their are a few things that need pointed out here...

#1 - Cleveland isn't an ideal place for big named free agents. They just don't want to play here.

#2 - Spending $10+ million a year on one player makes zero sense when the team realistically has five or six holes that need some attention.

#3 - Lots of negative media attention from this team between Jimmy Haslam, Johnny Manziel and Ray Farmers texting drama. Maybe this goes back to point #1, meaning Cleveland isn't an ideal place for big name players to want to come.

#4 - Aggressively spending money on big names doesn't always work, in fact more often than not, it blows up in your face. Ask the Redskins how that Albert Haynesworth deal worked out. Ask Tampa Bay how Michael Johnson and Vincent Jackson have helped propel their team to playoff contenders these last couple of years. I believe long term success is done through the draft.

#5 - Sitting on cap space isn't a bad thing. It's going to help us re-sign players next year, as well as sign all 10 draft picks. If Ray Farmer nails the draft again this year, we're a year closer to having a contending team, and we can use a bunch of money on good free agents NEXT SPRING. (assuming we still have Pettine & Farmer).


Some positive things to point out...

#1 - Ray Farmer and last years draft. Say what you will about the text scandal, and about him missing on Gilbert and Manziel, but excluding all that nonsense, he hit us a home run last year. When is the last time we've had 7 good and productive rookies in one year? Bitonio, West, Kirksey, Desir, Crowell, Williams and Gabriel were all VERY, VERY solid for us, and are a very good foundation to build on.

#2 - Mike Pettine. We won 7 games, and lost 4 more games by 4-points or less with one of the leagues youngest rosters. He installed attitude, confidence and a hard working approach for the team. The players seem to love him, and he's a highly respected guy around the league.

#3 - We've already got a very good core of veterans and young players in place. Alex Mack, Brian Hartline, Joe Thomas, Andrew Hawkins, Phil Taylor, John Hughes, Paul Kruger, Dante Whitner, Carlos Dansby, Craig Robertson, Tashaun Gipson, Barkevious Mingo. Between these guys, and the rookies, that's a good foundation to start with.

Do we need help? Yes. Absolutely.

Is the sky falling and the 2015 season officially over? No. Absolutely not.

Before everyone loses their minds, let's wait another week and see who we sign, and then see what Farmer can do with the draft.

jc

Here's a thought: show some of Grossi's articles to a football fan who you respect, but one who is not a Browns fan.

If his articles are so unreasonable, then someone who is unbiased should confirm them as such. I'm sure you will find that most people do not think he is so unreasonable after all.

The Browns deserve criticism for many things. They have had seven straight losing seasons. That is pathetic. This is a league with many rules designed to allow bad teams to get better quickly.

Here is a great example.....just signed to a huge contract last year:



https://twitter.com/RapSheet

Last FA period, he signed a 5-yr deal for $43M. $24M guaranteed. Now, he's on the streets. But that's ok Tampa was the winner of FA. It's all good. These WhatBrownsCanDo4U are the type of deals I'm talking about. Not contracts signed to formerly good players on the last leg of their careers.

You paint a pretty dire picture that we, the fans, have absolutely no control over.

I say this not as an attempt to instigate, but as a means of coping. It's probably best if you a) took up another hobby until the team is in a better position to your liking or b) remove the emotion from what's going on and just sit back and watch. You claimed apathy. You come across as anything but apathetic. You are highly emotionally invested, as we all are.

Again, DJ, I'm not saying that to start an argument. At some point, all of us have to do one of those two things to cope with what has been a train wreck for 15 years. I think I have decided to go the plan b route. I hardly care anymore. But it is true apathy. I really don't care.

Maybe that's why I don't understand all the complaining and whining. I've gotten to the point where I realized it serves no purpose. And maybe it was easier for me to get to that point because after all these years I've finally checked out. I will still watch the Browns this year. I just won't get excited or expect much. If they turn it around, I'm sure that excitement will return. But I am not looking forward to the season. I am looking forward to the summer and hope it drags on forever.

If ever anyone doubted Evolution, I give you Tony Grossi. If he sees something he doesn't like, he simply verbally throws poop at it like an unhappy monkey. It is pretty much his M.O.

Actually, when he's not throwing poop, he's trying to stir it up, so... I guess he's just a load of crap?

...as it seems to many who work for the organization as well. Many things seem to be a death march with a 2-3 day/week owner inserting here and there.

Nonsens? Are you serious? Hitting on your 1st round picks and not interferring on the on field coaching part are pretty much 90% of a GM's job, lol

As for the other rooks, only Bitonio has above AVG or better starter upside. Most of the others are complementary players at best. Desir was so raw he was basically redshirted, yet you high five Farmer for carrying a 52 men roster?

Yeah, I'm still angry thinking about it, but I feel very apathetic. Don't check the news or board anymore, I missed the McCown signing by a couple of days, don't watch or read profiles on prospects. It feels like losing a hobby, like when as a kid you just stop playing certain games and devote your time to other things you like more, so I guess I'm taking more the a-route, as I really struggle to get invested without emotions. I already watch Browns games just like any other random NFL game. So the gameday excitement and emotion is long gone too. The offseason apathy is totally new though. It has become a year round apathy, I guess.

Man, reading this, we should all write a book together about what it feels to be a Browns fan, lol.

?? Really?

Best record since '07. 1st. yr. HC and staff. Pet seems like a real go getter. Yeah lets spend big in FA cause that always helped us before. We've been building through the draft the last couple of years, so lets change course now and spend spend spend. We added a couple of nice pieces last yr. We'll add a couple more this yr. But the main point will be in the draft. All those Teams that spent big in FA last yr. Where are they now? Buc's were in the Play-offs? I missed that one. Raiders on the way to Bowl?? I missed that one too. We need to find our QB then we can talk the final pieces in FA.

It would be the saddest book ever written. LOL.

We can prove Rex Ryan is a head coach.

What Grossi is saying is that this franchise has no urgency to win now.
While other teams are reshaping their rosters for a playoff run and perhaps a chance for the title game,the Browns front office no aspirations for a playoff run in 2015.
Yeah its great to build through the draft.
But this franchise has never been good on drafting.
You have to find those players in FA that can help your team turn the corner.
Josh McCown and Brian Hartline are not difference makers.
I agree with Grossi on all points.
The bozos have been right all along.

I read this statement and wondered how pathetic it was that not having your coaching and FA staff canned after a year is even considered a step.

The M.O.of ESPN is to be down on the Browns these days. Grossi is writing for his paycheck.

I am confident we will improve this season. I expect the D will tighten further and the O will play much better then some think.


The only real player we have lost is Buster, and even at that he wasn't that good. I think a couple of our young guys can easily fill his shoes.


We had no problem replacing Leigh Bodden. We won't have a problem replacing Buster. We had him for his value years. Now let the Jets overpay for his play.

It doesn't even have to just include those guys. Brian Brennan, Bill Glass, Galen Fiss, Michael Dean Perry, Boom Boom Ambrose, Gary Collins, Don Cockroft.....lot's of solid mid level players have gone in to playing like the Browns.

When you get down to it, it doesn't even sound right to say play like a Brown. It's plural.....Browns....play like a team of players with passion.

Dino Hall, now there was a guy who played with passion.

Indeed.....lot's of guys played like that who will never sniff some all time list

Grossi is cackling somewhere knowing he trolled us all.

lol! After 16 horrible years of football ineptness, some fans just don't expect much out of this team anymore.

Not only is it not wise, it hurts your team in the long run.

how has our drafting worked out?

Good process, bad results is better than bad process, good results. In the end, if you do things the right way, you should prosper.

well so far, atleast going off memory, our FA's have always been better than our draft picks.

I love the idea of building through the draft. I prefer that, however, building through the draft requires being a good team. We aren't a good team. So we need FA's, as well as good coaching obviously, to help build a solid culture, that way we can use the draft to plug in pieces.

thats all i'm saying.