DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Legalization of Weed and other drugs.

Y'all for it or against it.

if yes or nor, why?

IF you do support banning weed, do you then agree that alcohol should also be illegal?

Do you support legalizing more drugs?

Here's my take:

I support weed( no surprise, i know), I also support taking the money on the war on drugs, and using it to instead educate and help clean up people with hardcore addicts.

I believe all drugs should be decriminalized. HOWEVER, if you're caught stealing, or being in a domestic violence dispute while high on ANYTHING, including alcohol, the fine/jail time should be doubled or TRIPLED compared with crimes committed while sober.

I believe in personal responsibility. I believe its a double standard to want to ban weed, while people fake injuries/mental illness to get pills, or since the leading causes of violence and accidents is alcohol.

However, i also believe it's still a companies/corporation's RIGHT to not allow drug users in their place of business. i actually support that, yes. even though i'm a stoner. I get it, companies have an image to protect.

I believe the military should be allowed to smoke, with the exception of month long training schedules(NTC, MCT, WLC, etc) and deployments.

I believe parents should also have the right, as long as they have the medical proof, to give their kids has oils, as it is PROVEN to help with epilepsy and other conditions.

I think Portugal has it right. actual drug use in the country, and crimes committed has went down.

This not only will free up our population problem in prison, but as long as it isn't taxed to death, will make a HUGE blow to cartels in our country.

and just for you 40, i believe they should take the restrictions off of cigarette smokers. it's a personal responsibility. however, the no smoking in public ban and all that should apply to all drugs, as i understand that the majority doesn't want to be around that stuff.

Oh yea, free my homeboy Jaquan, just got locked up for having 3 joints in his car.

oh yea, OldCal, thanks for the tip at that one VA hospital. they actually had walk-ins available and i was able to see a psychiatrist and get my meds refilled. Thanks so much bro.

Marijuana use amongst teens in Colorado, dropped after the first year of legalization

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014...er-legalization

That being said, how long do you think before Marijuana is legal in Ohio? I'd guess 5 years

I'm not for legalizing pot.

However, if it becomes legal, I would like to see it regulated just as strictly, if not more strictly, than alcohol.

Tax the hell out of it. Let the potheads pay the taxes. Put a limit - a strict limit - on how much can be grown by an individual. If they are found to exceed that limit, put them in prison.

If pot is bought on the street (as opposed to a legal pot vendor/store) both the seller and the buyer get .....I don't know - 5 years in prison. Mandatory. Why? Because if you don't have a system like that set up, but make pot legal, no one will buy from the "legal" places.

Go ahead, legalize it. But make the penalty for illegal growing or selling extemely punitive.

Get it legal, then pay the taxes. If you don't, prison, mandatory sentence.

hopefully not that long. maybe 2.

you haven't stated why?

and you realize if it's taxed more, you continue giving the cartels more power, right?

The war on drugs has to be one of the biggest waste of tax payer's money. ever.

If it were on the ballot tomorrow, I'd vote against it. THAT's "why".

If you followed along - and perhaps I didn't explain it well enough - but if pot were legalized, illegal growers, distributors, and sellers would face serious prison time.

Bam - cartels are out of it. Right?

Oh, but it's not that easy. I understand. Potheads won't buy at the legal stores, they'll continue to buy from the cheapest source. That's why, if it were to be legal, we jack up the prison time to seriously punitive levels. Caught buying, growing, selling, or distributing outside of the legal way - hey, maybe 15 years in prison. Mandatory.

If not, and all we do is legalized pot, we'll get no tax revenue, we won't stop the crimes associated with it's growth, use, selling, etc. And we won't do anything with the violence and back street murders.

If it's going to be legal, then make sure the illegal use is punishable in a manner that is punitive to the max. Otherwise, it's just saying "hell, smoke it, we don't care."

Driving under the influence of pot? (even 15 nanograms) gets you 30 days for the first offense. Second offense is a year. Third offense? 10 years. If you want it legal, there are going to be laws about it. You ready to deal with those laws?

Thank god the other states don't view it as you do.

All i'm going to say in response to you on this topic.

Well, I'm not done I guess.

You want pot legal, but don't want to pay the tax on it? Is that it? You want pot legal, but don't want laws for abuse applied, is that it?

Legalize it - just tax the hell out of it, like tobacco and alchohol. And if you're doing it illegally, face the damn prison time. Not hard to argue with that, is it?

Make it legal - just make the penalty for selling it illegally extremely punitive. There, you get what you want.

Or is it that you want to buy it from some guy without paying tax on it, yet be free to smoke it without fear of punishment?

If it becomes legal, punish the hell out of those that grow it, sell it illegally. It's how it works swish.

are you serious?

it shouldn't be insanely taxed. i didn't say NO taxes. but right now theres ZERO incentive to buy it at the stores, when you can still get medical weed from a speciality store and normal bud off the street cheaper.

When you tax the crap of out stuff like that, you're not actually solving any problems. i'm not sure how you don't understand that concept.

for instance, here in cleveland, if you don't know any body, you can get an 1/8th for 45-50 dollars, a quarter ounce for 100.

if they made it legal, but an 1/8th ran me 70 dollars and a quarter ran be 150, i'm not buying that. i'm still gonna by it from the streets. that high of taxes isn't solving any problems.

now if i can get an 1/8th for 55-60, and a quarter for 110-120, then yes, i WILL buy it legally. but you're talking about taxing them like they do cigarettes. that would be insane.

Sadly, I think you're the one that doesn't get it.

Pot won't ever be legalized if it isn't taxed.

Now, you do have a point about not buying it from the legal places if you can get it cheaper on the street. But, what that's doing is screwing the system. Kinda like Goethner..........make money, but don't pay taxes on it. Kinda like Sharpton - make money, but don't pay taxes. Kinda like the senator from detroit, make money but don't pay taxes.

Hey, if it works for you, it ought to work for all of us. I think none of us should pay taxes. Do you agree or disagree?

huh?

i just said it should be taxed.

just not at some insane rate that you're talking about.

Here in Ohio, the state makes $1.25 off a pack of smokes. Figure an average price of $5.50 per pack - that's about 23% in tax. That's just the state tax - don't know if the fed's get any or not.

You okay buying your pot at a 23% tax rate? If not, you're cheating the system if pot ever became legal. If it becomes legal, tax it at 23%. Get caught not paying the tax? Prison.

thats not even bad. hell thats higher than what I PROPOSED in my post.

so sure. tax it at that rate. i'll buy it by the pound if that was the case.

everybody at the tail gate party would be blazed. on me.

Nah, I wouldn't be.

I still think you don't get it. A 23% tax rate is high, yes. But what I'm saying is if you get caught (if pot were legal) selling or buying without paying the tax, real prison time is in order.

After all, if real prison time doesn't come about, what's the use of making it legal? What's the use for someone to buy the license and set up shop?

Follow the money young man - follow the money. You don't want to pay? Take your chances. (and don't brag about it on a message board. )

Is that what you meant to say?

i think it's dumb to put people in jail for buying pot off the street. i just can't get behind that. i can see fines, but not jail time.

Swish - you are absolutely entitled to your opinion.

I think it's dumb to smoke pot. I think it's dumb to smoke cigs.

But, if pot ever becomes legal here and you can't imprison the illegal seller or illegal buyer, who's going to pony up the money to do it legit? Why would a person pay to get his pot selling cert. if he knows he'll be undersold by the dude out front of his store that faces nothing but a fine?

Fine the guy - next day, someone else will be out front selling pot cheaper........and the guy that got fined? He'll go underground for a bit.


Look - you've made it obvious you love your pot. I believe in a different thread you said something along the lines of you love it.

But it appears your love of pot doesn't mean you want to buy it legally and pay the price - you just want it legal, so you don't have to pay the OTHER price.

uhh yea? who the hell wants to go to jail for something like that? me smoking pot effects.....thats right, nobody else.

Yes, i don't want to go to jail. yes i want pot legal. sure, i'll pay taxes. but not some stupid insane rate that makes weed DOUBLE the price its suppose to be.

and it's stupid, we got pedophiles getting less time in prison than pot sellers/users. you can't tell me that isn't wrong.

Pedophiles is a completely different subject. We can discuss that in depth in a different thread.

In this thread, however, we are talking about pot. IF it were legal, the penalties for selling it illegally, or buying it illegally, would need to be severe.

If they aren't, all you've done is legalize a drug with no benefit to the state. Follow the money.

I'd say legalize it and don't tax it.

But I basically say don't tax anything so the point is moot.

I hope society will get to some point where we don't see acts of self-medication as reason to throw people in jail to be beaten and raped.

I read somewhere a while back that Marijuana being a plant makes it a little more difficult to legalize in terms of taxes. Yes you can tax it, but it becomes not as profitable because you cannot patent it.

Yes, cigarettes are a huge industry, but it pales in comparison with pharmaceuticals which are mostly patented.

I don't know the validity of this, because I really don't know how accurate the numbers are.

I'd personally like to see Marijuana legal across the board. I wish I could smoke it. I enjoyed smoking it. I never drove around high or anything. It was just something I did at home. We get random drug tests at work so I don't even dare light up.

Does anyone know how companies and work places in Colorado are with drug testing? Have most businesses removed marijuana from it beause it's fully legal or are they still testing?

it's mixed in Colorado.

some still have the ban on weed, while other CEO's took it off the policy completely because they smoke as well. so it's about 50/50,

I'm with you on the legalizing weed part and honestly I think a lot of cops would be fine with it as well. I think the most common sense approach to it is to apply laws/restrictions similar to what we have for alcohol (can't drink and drive, open containers in certain areas, etc). I'm not sure why people keep trying make this argument that weed or alcohol HAS to be held up higher than the other as the WORST???

As to the harder stuff: crack, heroin, MDMA, etc... you'd have harder time selling me on. Unlike weed, there are too many other crimes that those addicts commit in order to support their habit that directly effect too many other people (robberies, burglaries, theft, assaults, etc).

Archi- to your point about throwing the book at people who run illegal grow operations or possess weed they didn't buy at the store: how would I as a cop know where their weed came from? There's no way for me to know. And so what if you grew it at home? People brew their own beer don't they? Would you advocate your neighbor going to jail for 15 years because he sold the other guy down the block a case of his garage brew???

Taxing "the hell" out of it doesn't make sense to me either, pretty much for the same reasons Swish already detailed... why pay a 50% markup when I already have a guy?

You know what's funny about the drug trade? It is a PERFECT example of Capitalism at it's finest and most successful. Think about it: the ONLY regulation on narcotics is that its illegal to possess. Past that, the laws of Supply and Demand (augmented by product quality) dictate and set prices. a $20 crack rock has been a $20 crack rock for like ever! Heroin just a few years ago was a pretty expensive drug.. about $40-60 per hit. Now most of those addicts have switched over to prescription pills because they are cheaper. The net effect is that the price of heroin has plummeted to about $20 a hit.

you know how i feel about cops bro,

but honestly. I'm glad you agree. I rather you guys really put forth the effort into finding guys doing DUI's, domestic violence issues, gang violence and other stuff like that.

I know a couple cops, and i know, atleast from my experience and from who i know, you guys actually let a lot of guys with weed slide and such. because y'all already know you could be doing more important stuff with your time. and i...respect that.

wow....can't believe i said that.

anyway, yea man, since i already started, i know a lot of cool ass white cops that work here in East Cleveland. You guys are more worried about crimes that actually effect the community. I give respect when its due.

I can't believe you said that either lol Honestly if it did get legalized I wouldn't be surprised if you proposed a law saying all cops had to blaze one before hitting the streets just to chill the hell out lol

In all seriousness, I am glad to hear that you've been having different (and better) experiences with cops than what you grew up with.

Arch the only thing I see that I object to in your scenario is long prison terms. And it's not so much from a moral standpoint, but a financial one.

http://www.drc.ohio.gov/public/osp.htm

According to this source, the average daily cost of housing an inmate is $164.06 per day. That's 59,881.90 per year.
So let's say someone selling weed illegally gets the 5 year mandatory sentence you suggest that will cost the Ohio taxpayer $299,409.50 to implement.

So in essence, you have someone breaking a law that may cost the taxpayers a few thousand dollars in avoiding a tax, only to cost the taxpayers almost 300k for the infraction. While you may not advocate a large fine over jail time, the outcome for the taxpayer is what I find objectionable under your scenario.

Personally I don't know what the big deal is. Alcohol is much worse as a stimulant that leads to violent behavior than weed. The only time I've heard of violence involving weed is when a deal went bad on the news.

In Ohio a group just got their signatures approved by the Attorney General to legalize it and allow persons over 21 to have no more than 4 plants growing at a time.

Fine by me, if I can make my own wine or brew my own beer I should be able to garden my own lettuce.

Will I end up doing it? No, I've only tried it twice and wasn't impressed at all. But so long as it's regulated as far as safety is concerned (no DWBlazed and such) I don't see the harm.

They used to tell us in grade school (late 70's) that there could be birth defects, but I don't know if that has been proven true or not. I do know it has adverse effects on memory, I paint with a guy who used the hell out of it way back when and there are times of his life he doesn't remember due to its use. Not vast periods but still.

The other concern is the 'gateway drug' thing, I don't want other drugs approved for the obvious reasons DevilDog stated. So I do worry about that.

Legalize and Tax it. All funds go to paying off the National Debt!

That could work! The money would come in waves! Everyone would work like crazy haut to be able to sit in the couch, then after the weed wore off they'd all be back at it again just to get back to the couch to puff away!

Then we'd have a food shortage and an obesity problem due to the massive epidemic of the munchies sweeping the nation!

The far reaching benefits are too many to name!

If a kid at 18 can decide to destroy their lungs and etc by cigarettes, or someone at 21 can destroy their liver and etc - why not allow the legal use of pot too?

The biggest issue with pot is the lack of education and facts that have coexisted with programs like DARE and other anti pot/drug programs.

Plus, using Denver as an example, it's a home run for federal and state revenue off the taxing of it. People going to smoke regardless, should the money go into the state and etc, or into the black market?

jc

lol, the war on drugs.....

New Report Says ​DEA Agents Held Sex Parties with Prostitutes Paid for by Colombian Drug Cartels

http://www.vice.com/read/new-report-says...source=vicefbus

Drug Enforcement Administration agents like to party with the locals while working overseas, according to a report released today by the Department of Justice. The report, released by the department's inspector general, found that for years, several DEA agents stationed overseas held "sex parties" with prostitutes paid for by local drug cartels, likely in Colombia. According to the investigation, the parties were typically hosted at DEA "quarters" leased by the US government, and Colombian police officers also provided "protection for the DEA agents' weapons and property during the parties."

The revelations come as part of a wider investigation of the handling of sexual misconduct and sexual harassment in several DOJ agencies, including Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF), the DEA, the FBI, and the US Marshals Service. The DOJ's inspector general began its investigation after several Secret Service members were sent home from Colombia in 2012 for alleged involvement with prostitutes in Cartagena during a presidential trip to the Summit of the Americas. After reviewing the alleged sexual misconduct of agents in Cartagena, the OIG called for a broader review of "the nature, frequency, reporting, investigation, and adjudication of allegations of sexual misconduct" across the agency.

The findings of the investigation are damning, to say the least. The Justice Department found that the DEA suffered from a "lack of coordination between the internal affairs offices," murky sexual misconduct and sexual harassment reporting policies, and "weaknesses in detecting sexually explicit text messages and images," all of which seem like fairly important components when making sure your employees aren't attending prostitute orgies paid for by Colombian drug lords.

In another instance uncovered by the report, multiple witnesses reported that a DEA assistant regional director had "solicited prostitutes at a farewell party held in [his] honor." In an interview with the DEA's Office of Professional Responsibility, the director in question claimed that the witnesses must be "100% lying," and the agency did not continue its investigation.

Even in adjudicated cases of sexual harassment, the DEA failed to charge subjects with sexual harassment, instead charging them with other, more innocuous-sounding indiscretions, like "Conduct Unbecoming" and "Failure to Follow Written Instructions." When asked by investigators why the sexual harassment offense category evenexisted, a DEA official "who is heavily involved in the discipline process responded, 'It's for show.'"

The DEA wasn't the only department with lax responses to sexual misconduct. According to the report, the ATF and the Marshal's Service also failed to report risky and inappropriate sexual behavior. Other allegations include an ATF program manager "failed to report allegations that two training instructors were having consensual sex with their students," even after discovering that the instructors had "engaged in substantially the same activities three years earlier;" and that a deputy US Marshal entered a "romantic relationship" with a fugitive's spouse for more than a year, despite requests from supervisors to break it off.

The report also claims that the DEA and FBI did not make the investigation easy for the inspector general's office, allegedly withholding information during initial interviews and "unnecessarily delaying" responses to investigators. According to the report, DEA employees "stated they were given the impression by the DEA that they were not to discuss the case with the [Office of the Inspector General] while the case remained open."

In a statement to Politico Thursday, House Oversight and Government Reform Committee Chairman Jason Chaffetz (R) said he wanted all agents involved fired immediately, adding that "anytime you bring a foreign national into your room, you're asking for trouble." The committee is scheduled to hold a hearing on the report's findings next month.
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Well.....can't beat em, join em, I suppose. SMH.

Even you and I could buy some, just to help pay off the Debt!
We could puff but not inhale like Democrats!

I'm not a pot head anymore but I used to be. The thing about the conversation you and Arch were having about buying from the store vs buying cheaper on the street was missing and important element.

That is, in my day if I had the choice to save a few bucks by buying the run-of-the-mill "commercial" pot on the street, (which would be illegal) vs buying the kick-ass stuff that would be available in the stores legally I would opt for the kick-ass legal ganga in the store even if it costs considerably more.

The higher quality and legality being the deciding factors. I'd bet the majority of pot heads would think the same.

Back in the day if I had a choice of a $25 ounce of Mexican or a $40 ounce of Columbian Blond I paid the $40 every time.

There would still be an market for the illegal stuff by those who are not yet 21.

That's all I wanted to say.

j/c

If I'm not mistaken, banks don't want any part of pot selling/buying so in Colorado it's a cash only exchange. Though they raked in millions in taxes, a cash only business is ripe for fraud and tax evasion. Which I recall reading somewhere where they believe that's the case.

I know squat about the drug trade but even if they legalize the selling of pot in Ohio a la Colorado, I don't think people are going to stop growing it discretely or selling it discreetly.

The only advantage for Ohio citizens is the cost of arrests, and incarceration.

I'd rather see someone who is a threat to the community like a vandal, thief, burglar, in jail than someone who sells a weed.

They make it legal tomorrow I'll smoke the state dry! lol

Drugs, Alcohol, anything that is mind altering should never be legalized, this world is bad enough as it is .. The mind is the devil's playground ... and when the mind is altered the devil has a field day .... JMHO

thats odd. The pastor at the church that my grandmother goes to smoke all the time too.

He thinks weed is perfectly fine.

Oh my, lol I would not want someone smoking pot preaching the Holy Word of God to me ...

Ah the good old days, damn I miss them

I use to be a Deacon in our church. I had a key to the door and spent many nights sitting in the pews at 10, 11, 12 oclock after having smoked pot. Just me and God. I have never felt as close to God as I did during that time of my life.