DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... "No one ever achieves anything alone"

I try my best not to dislike anyone ..... though I do dislike the actions of some. However, inside we are all flawed human beings, and have that in common before all else is taken into account.

I am glad that you were able to overcome your problems. I wish you continued success in your sobriety, (is that the right term for recovery from a drug problem?) as we all know that such things are never truly defeated forever, but are only held in check through continued vigilance.

I would like to think that the prayers you received during that time also helped.

"No one ever achieves anything alone"

Here I'll give it a shot:

"We're nothing without each other." Am I a philosopher king?

Oh wait, that's what PDR implied.

I like you PDR. (now please put another dollar in the slot)

I think a lot of this is semantics. Say somebody is ambitious, works hard, and lands a well paying, satisfying job. Obviously their desire and actions are the main reasons this happened, but what about the parents who raised them? What about having a free, quality education for 12 years? What about having the infrastructure in society in place with roads, utilities, peace, etc? (this is not the case in some areas of the world!)

How you interpret this probably depends on your motives more than anything. For example, you could take a quote out of context from a political adversary and use it to portray the person as someone who thinks that hard work isn't important.

And everybody has their issues even if some are better at hiding them than others. I have never known anybody well who didn't have their own set of tough circumstances they had to deal with. I don't know PDR very well but this thread is a good example of that. Often times it is very beneficial to have other peoples' advice and support. This is not a bad thing.

All in all though, I really believe life is what you make of it. It reminds me of a quote from Robert Glover in his classic book, No More Mr. Nice Guy: "You are the only person on this planet responsible for your needs, wants, and happiness."

He makes an exception for your parents before you are an adult and that's it.

I'm in almost the same boat as you. Here are some things I was thinking on this.

An addict will never get better until they decide to end their addition. A teacher can teach all they want, but an unwilling student will not learn.

That 'free quality education' is not free. That's paid out of taxes. I haven't been in public school or had a kid in public school from 1984 until 1999, but I still paid my taxes during that time. The old roads were built before I drove, but the new ones were built during the time I paid taxes. The local government forced some people to get city water and sewage, even though they already had wells and septic tanks, but they still paid taxes. This is one of the reasons I get annoyed with the 'you didn't build that' line, because I did by paying taxes. When you figure in the jobs I helped provide by paying those taxes, I feel like I should be thanked for my contributions, rather than told 'you didn't build that'. It especially irks me when a government official says that, when their job wouldn't exist without those of us that pay taxes so they have a podium to make stupid statements.

I am literally laughing out loud at how quickly your nice sentiment turned into a whizzing contest.

If I played any part in helping you through your tough times, you are welcome. There are some things you and I are in total agreement about... others we couldn't be farther apart... but I typically enjoy your thoughts.

The notion of doing something "alone" can be taken several ways. The way the President used it, I didn't fully agree with... it's like the old Carl Sagan quote, "If you wish to bake an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe."

There were many generations who came before us who created the world we live in, the technology we use, etc... then we all had parents who brought us into the world, adults who cared for us and mentored us, teachers who taught us (or tried), friends who influenced us, employers who gave us a shot, etc.. then we had whatever drive and initiative we developed to move ahead in life to wherever we are now... So my answer to the question of, Did we do it alone or was it a group effort? is... Yes.

DC summed up my thoughts pretty well below this post. I also did not like the 'you didn't build that' comment but I mostly just took it as a rare form of poor speech writing and/or speaking from this president. It reminds me of when Bush was in office. He had quite a few 'Bushisms' and was ripped mercilessly for them but I just think it's generally lame to critique every single word that comes out of someone's mouth. We are football fans and blast the media when they twist an athlete's words yet political discourse gets so much more hostile than that.

But anyway, I get that responsible adults contribute to society by paying taxes. However, you likely did not pay much for the first couple decades of your life and a decent education in that time period is not something to be underestimated. There are close to a billion illiterate adults in the world and this has more to do with the system/infrastructure in place in some areas and less to do with peoples' desire and motivation.

jc.

not one thing i did was by myself.

I ran some Armani Code type game on my wife when i met her......but guess what? it still took her accepting me for me to hit that.....i mean date and marry her.

The job i just got?(started today) I could sell a dream all i want, at the end of the day, the owner of the dealership, or the hiring manager could've easily decided to hire his son or Daughter's boyfriend over me, or any other applicants for no other reason than he hated my face.

The BMW i roll through the streets in? Never would've happened if the Army didn't allow me to join in 2006, after i had those charges on my background.

people who described themselves as "self-made", thats cool, but to me that just means you didn't need a hook up, or a connection to get where you are.

but you still needed the bank to approve you, and CONSUMERS to actually like what your offering, because nobody is building crap if the consumers say no.

Everybody needs somebody else to make it in this world. anywhere. Once the concept of "Society" was invented, that was it. We are all connected now.

at this point, the only people who are self made are guys that live off the grid, and live in the woods somewhere.

Well said DC.

I dunno fellas... most of us here are guys... I'm sure we all had those moments of solitude as a young man hoping your mom didn't walk in on you....

I don't know anything about the Zenos Paradox.. but I do know it gives me a headache when I try to figure out the Terminator timeline:

How does John Connor send Kyle Reese back in time to sleep with Sarah Connor so that she can give birth to John Connor!? If Kyle Reese doesn't make mad sweet love to Sarah in a gas station bathroom, John can never send him back in time!

I've done plenty on my own and succeeded by myself. Other people/entities don't need to be given credit every time I succeed. It's okay to say you earned something on your own. If I do something by myself and succeed, I'm not thanking others, I'm giving myself the credit I deserve.

Kind of sad that a thread with good intentions got sidetracked so quickly.

There is no possible way that in a world where things are so interconnected can anyone claim they did anything on their own.

Now I do believe that you sometimes make your own luck through hard work, perseverance, drive, initiative, creativity, whatever.

But unless you are living on a planet of 1, then, no, mostly everything depends on someone or many someones along the way.

If I plant some tomatoes in my garden, grow them, then eat them, I made that happen with the help of nobody. If I make 100 sales calls in a day while the rest of my team makes 20 each, I made the effort to achieve that goal with the help of nobody else and succeeded on my own.

But see, this is where the whole " no one ever achieves anything alone" statement is a trap statement collectivists use.

In this particular incident I don't think that's what PDR was getting at.. my impression is that we don't face life's difficulties alone. I might be wrong about his motives though.. that's for him to say.

But the reason why I say it is a trap is because collectivists don't use it to express gratitude for the people who have helped, provided opportunities, and pointed a person in the right direction. They use it to justify the narrative that everyone else deserves a portion of what you have earned (profit).

There's a difference between acknowledging your 5th grade teacher exposed you to something that you later have a career in and being successful at, and going back and paying your 5th grade teacher for your success.

It's all a matter of perspective.

Start with a young Bill Gates, if he is sitting in his garage playing with his computer, he accomplishes nothing. Bill decided to try to make it better, developed an idea, a product, sold that product, hired the right people to help him, secured financing from the bank, continued to grow that product/service into Microsoft. Without Bill Gates, nothing happens. If he creates a bad product or service, nothing happens. If he hires the wrong people, it could fail. If he can't sell his idea to get financing, the whole thing dies before it gets started.

So were there a lot of other people involved in his success? Yes, there were. But if at any point, early in the process, Bill had said, "You know what, that's enough. I don't want to do this any more." Then the whole thing would have died right there and somebody else would have eventually invented it. So it's easy to read it both ways.

The one group that I won't give credit for a persons success, is the customer. If I create widgets in my garage and sell them then my customer deserves ZERO credit for my success. They are buying my product or service because it makes their life or their job easier or more enjoyable, that's it. If I don't provide it, somebody else will.

I also agree with the post above about the different meanings behind it.. it's one thing to thank and acknowledge everybody along the way that contributed to your success, it's another to think they should be compensated in some way or that you owe society something for it.

My point wasn't intended to make any grand statements about life or political ideals.

Just wanted to say thanks.

well that's anti-climatic

Well, if you want my honest thoughts on the debate at large...

There is no correct answer here. It takes a personal ingenuity that comes from within to make the more important advancements in life, but if that ingenuity comes to you while you're roaming the woods by yourself foraging for food...you're not going to get very far.

The 'we all have an equal stake here' and the 'Atlas Shrugged' crowds both have valid points, but if they're working off of that assumption in a vacuum, it's not going to work.

Yeah. I'm with texas on that.

We didn't burn anything in effigy or nothin'.

"Happiness only exists when it is shared"

paraphrasing, but I saw that in the movie "Into the Wild" and it rings true for me.

If you could achieve something great, but had no one to share it with, it probably won't please you. Might even make you wish you had never bothered. Imagine building your dream home and perfecting every detail, then no one ever stopping by to see it. Might as well leave the drywall unfinished.

I would greatly disagree with that. If I built my dream house to be everything I wanted it to be, I don't need to show it off to others to get their approval. I would feel good knowing I did what I wanted to achieve. My happiness is not based on what others think of me, it's based on what I think of me.

I think you might have that backwards. Wanting others to approve of what you have done is material happiness. The only people with who I seek emotional approval are my wife and kids.

I'm willing to bet your family's opinion (of you) impacts what you think of yourself.

To clarify my example, the key words were "Had no one" to share it with. Completely alone. No need to worry about others opinions, as no one has any opinion of you whatsoever. Regardless of what I thought about myself, I would not find any happiness if I was completely alone.