DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Cops writing less tickets.. Say wha???

Some interesting news for y'all..


http://time.com/money/3762033/traffic-ticket-decrease-speed-limits-police/

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Drivers appear to be catching a break from cops, who are writing fewer tickets of late. But don't think for a second the decrease is because police have become softies all of a sudden.

The Nevada Supreme Court says it could be completely broke by May 1. The primary reason the court won’t have enough cash to operate? Not enough people are breaking the law. Or rather, not enough people are being caught breaking the law.

The Las Vegas Review-Journal recently reported that the number of traffic and parking citations has plummeted in Nevada, from 615,267 in 2010 to 484,913 last year. That’s a dip of more than 21% over five years. The state court system’s budget relies on millions of dollars in funding from such citations, so when significantly fewer tickets are issued, it can wreak havoc on the court’s ability to do its job, and even just keep the lights on.

In mid-March, Nevada Chief Justice James Hardesty raised the problem to a group of state lawmakers, asking the legislature to provide emergency funding to make up for the shortfall in citation revenues. The court’s budget is currently running $700,000 short. As for why the number of tickets issued by police has steadily declined, Hardesty doesn’t think it’s simply because a broad swath of drivers has suddenly seen the error of their ways and stopped speeding.



“With all due respect to the citizens of Nevada, I don’t think anyone is driving better,” Hardesty said to lawmakers. “I think the truth is that we’re seeing less traffic violations because law enforcement’s priorities have changed and it has changed dramatically.”

What, then, are the new priorities? The Review-Journal noted that police have put new “emphasis on violations that could cause crashes,” with citations up for drunk driving and cellphone use behind the wheel. Understaffing may be a factor as well.

In any event, the decrease in traffic citations is hardly limited to Nevada. Speeding tickets are down sharply in Wisconsin, from 294,000 convictions in 2004 to 156,000 in 2013. In Washington, D.C., police officers issued 76,832 traffic tickets last year, down from 81,161 in 2012 and 116,509 in 2010. Citations issued on interstates in Ohio are down as well, especially on busy I-70, where the monthly number of tickets is down 25%. Over in Pennsylvania, the number of tickets issued by state police was down 22% in September 2014 and 11% in October compared with the same months the year before.

Speed Limits Up, Revenue Down

What’s to explain the decline in tickets? In some cases, it’s a matter of not having the funds to keep police out on patrol looking for violators. Police in Wisconsin, for instance, say that federal grant money that used to support anti-speeding campaigns has dried up.

What’s interesting—or perhaps sad, in a which-came-first, dog-chasing-its-own-tail sorta way—is that budget tightening is often blamed for why ticket issuance is down, at the same time a decline in citations is pointed to as a prime reason for budget shortfalls in the first place. Understaffing due to budgetary constraints has been blamed for the sudden and dramatic decline in ticket revenues in Illinois, Massachusetts, and New York as well in recent years.

Higher speed limits that are more in line with how people actually drive also appear to have handcuffed the need to issue speeding tickets. When Ohio upped its speed limit to 70 mph in 2013, it became the 37th state to OK speeds of 70 or above. In light of that, it’s no coincidence that speeding tickets have dropped 7% on Ohio’s 70 mph stretches, and they’re down 25% on rural areas of I-70 where the limit is 70 mph.




In some cases, especially in D.C., there are indications that police are writing fewer traffic tickets because automated red-light camera systems are doing the job for them. In Pennsylvania, meanwhile, traffic tickets were supposedly down steeply last fall partly because police were occupied in a seven-week manhunt for alleged cop killer Eric Frein. What many drivers might find alarming is that even as citations were down during this period, ticket revenues were up significantly compared with the year before. How could this be? The average traffic fine simply got more expensive, hitting $125 in 2014, up from $114 the year before.

The cynics among us may think that police are writing fewer tickets mainly because they have little incentive to write more tickets. This certainly seems to be the case in parts of Illinois, where police issue traffic tickets at a tiny fraction of the rate their citation-happy brethren in law enforcement do across the border in Missouri. The most infamous example of this is Ferguson, Mo., where the killing of an unarmed Michael Brown by police inspired months of protests, and where police are known to write more and more tickets to fund local budgets. Nearly 12,000 traffic tickets were issued in Ferguson (population: 21,111) last year. Across the border in Illinois, where municipalities see very little of the money taken in from traffic fines, police in cities of similar size like Alton (population: 27,690) and Edwardsville (population: 24,663) handed out only 6,653 and 3,128 tickets, respectively, in 2013.

“None of us want an officer to have a financial incentive to write citations,” Edwardsville Police Chief Jay Keevan said to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

For that matter, traffic tickets aren’t supposed to be about money, right? They’re supposed to exist in order to incentivize drivers into behaving better behind the wheel and keep roads safer. The purpose of lower speed limits is supposed to be to save lives as well. With that in mind, one might assume that since speed limits have risen, and since police seem to have grown lax in their approach to writing tickets, roads would become more dangerous. But the statistics don’t bear this out.

According to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, there were 30,057 car crashes in which someone died on American roads in 2013, the most recent year for which data is available. That’s the second-lowest fatal car crash total ever (2011 had slightly fewer), and it marked an all-time low for the death rate per 100,000 vehicle occupants.

In other words, roads today are safer, not more dangerous, and it’s hard to argue that writing more tickets is going to make anyone safer.

“With all due respect to the citizens of Nevada, I don’t think anyone is driving better,” Hardesty said to lawmakers. “I think the truth is that we’re seeing less traffic violations because law enforcement’s priorities have changed and it has changed dramatically.”

What, then, are the new priorities? The Review-Journal noted that police have put new “emphasis on violations that could cause crashes,” with citations up for drunk driving and cellphone use behind the wheel. Understaffing may be a factor as well.

In any event, the decrease in traffic citations is hardly limited to Nevada. Speeding tickets are down sharply in Wisconsin, from 294,000 convictions in 2004 to 156,000 in 2013. In Washington, D.C., police officers issued 76,832 traffic tickets last year, down from 81,161 in 2012 and 116,509 in 2010. Citations issued on interstates in Ohio are down as well, especially on busy I-70, where the monthly number of tickets is down 25%. Over in Pennsylvania, the number of tickets issued by state police was down 22% in September 2014 and 11% in October compared with the same months the year before.

Speed Limits Up, Revenue Down

What’s to explain the decline in tickets? In some cases, it’s a matter of not having the funds to keep police out on patrol looking for violators. Police in Wisconsin, for instance, say that federal grant money that used to support anti-speeding campaigns has dried up.

What’s interesting—or perhaps sad, in a which-came-first, dog-chasing-its-own-tail sorta way—is that budget tightening is often blamed for why ticket issuance is down, at the same time a decline in citations is pointed to as a prime reason for budget shortfalls in the first place. Understaffing due to budgetary constraints has been blamed for the sudden and dramatic decline in ticket revenues in Illinois, Massachusetts, and New York as well in recent years.

Higher speed limits that are more in line with how people actually drive also appear to have handcuffed the need to issue speeding tickets. When Ohio upped its speed limit to 70 mph in 2013, it became the 37th state to OK speeds of 70 or above. In light of that, it’s no coincidence that speeding tickets have dropped 7% on Ohio’s 70 mph stretches, and they’re down 25% on rural areas of I-70 where the limit is 70 mph.




In some cases, especially in D.C., there are indications that police are writing fewer traffic tickets because automated red-light camera systems are doing the job for them. In Pennsylvania, meanwhile, traffic tickets were supposedly down steeply last fall partly because police were occupied in a seven-week manhunt for alleged cop killer Eric Frein. What many drivers might find alarming is that even as citations were down during this period, ticket revenues were up significantly compared with the year before. How could this be? The average traffic fine simply got more expensive, hitting $125 in 2014, up from $114 the year before.

The cynics among us may think that police are writing fewer tickets mainly because they have little incentive to write more tickets. This certainly seems to be the case in parts of Illinois, where police issue traffic tickets at a tiny fraction of the rate their citation-happy brethren in law enforcement do across the border in Missouri. The most infamous example of this is Ferguson, Mo., where the killing of an unarmed Michael Brown by police inspired months of protests, and where police are known to write more and more tickets to fund local budgets. Nearly 12,000 traffic tickets were issued in Ferguson (population: 21,111) last year. Across the border in Illinois, where municipalities see very little of the money taken in from traffic fines, police in cities of similar size like Alton (population: 27,690) and Edwardsville (population: 24,663) handed out only 6,653 and 3,128 tickets, respectively, in 2013.

“None of us want an officer to have a financial incentive to write citations,” Edwardsville Police Chief Jay Keevan said to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

For that matter, traffic tickets aren’t supposed to be about money, right? They’re supposed to exist in order to incentivize drivers into behaving better behind the wheel and keep roads safer. The purpose of lower speed limits is supposed to be to save lives as well. With that in mind, one might assume that since speed limits have risen, and since police seem to have grown lax in their approach to writing tickets, roads would become more dangerous. But the statistics don’t bear this out.

According to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, there were 30,057 car crashes in which someone died on American roads in 2013, the most recent year for which data is available. That’s the second-lowest fatal car crash total ever (2011 had slightly fewer), and it marked an all-time low for the death rate per 100,000 vehicle occupants.

In other words, roads today are safer, not more dangerous, and it’s hard to argue that writing more tickets is going to make anyone safer.

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Uh...that's a scary thought.

It just proves that the motivation for citations is revenue, not to keep people safe.

Twisted.

I first saw this article on Facebook posted by a police website (Calibre Press). What I found interesting about this article is that it only hypothesizes why there has been such a sharp decline in issued citations.

I'm not sure I believe that higher speed limits are really a factor because a) its probably been several years since any state has recently increased their high way limit, and b) everyone always drives faster anyway. If the limit is 65mph, X% of people will drive 70mph. If you bump the limit up to 70mph, I'd bet its pretty close to X% will still drive 75mph.

Aside from that, municipalities generally don't change their speed limits around town, and states don't typically change the limits on the county roads.

Another thing the article references in D.C. I think is that they think the red light cameras are "cutting in". I think that's bunk as well. Typically red light cameras are placed in high collision intersections. Even if its a town that puts them up everywhere, trying to run traffic enforcement at a light controlled intersection is very difficult to do effectively. Its not like running radar or sitting up on a stop sign.

I wish I could post the FB comments for you guys, because I think many of the answers (from mostly cops) would surprise you.

My stance was that some of us are reluctant to write a citation because the courts are gouging people with "court costs and fees". For example: You bust through a stop sign. It's a $25 fine, and $188 in court costs. The driver goes to court in hopes of pleading guilty/responsible and catching a break. The judge tosses the fine, and still orders you to pay the court costs. Not much of a break right?

I had a pretty good back and forth with an officer from another jurisdiction that made some good points as to why we should be writing tickets, but he said that whatever happens at court is between the motorist and the court. I disagreed because a) that person is in court because of the enforcement action I chose to take and b) often the judge when considering giving someone a break will inquire as to the interaction with the officer: were they polite and cooperative, or were the rude and a douche bag.

People have a Constitutional protection against excessive bail and punishment. Calling it a "court cost and fee" doesn't make it any less of a punishment, it's just semantics. If a minor traffic infraction is worth $188, then the FINE should be $188.. not $25. I think we have an ethical obligation in that if we are going to subject someone to paying $188 they won't be able to get out of, then the severity of the violation needs to match.

A few other people piggy backed on my comments siting that the economy sucks in reality for a lot of people despite how good we are told it is doing. $200 puts a serious hurt on a person, and shouldn't be taken lightly.

There were a number of officers who commented that they pull less cars over because increased contact increases the odds of BS complaints. Now some of you guys might be saying "Well, if the cop is acting professional and not violating rights he shouldn't worry about being complained on". Fact of the matter is, the majority of complaints (i.e. the cop cussed me out and was rude, etc etc) are false and made up. People think that if they complain it will get the ticket torn up... which is why dashcams are handy Right now the big push is for body cams and some departments that have gone to those full time have seen massive reductions in the number of complaints and uses of force. Now what will be advertised is that the sharp reduction is because cops are all of a sudden behaving better. To be sure there is some of that impact, but those sharp declines have more to do with the CITIZEN behaving better because they know they are being recorded.

Personally, I wouldn't mind wearing a body cam. I'm confident in how I conduct my job as well as those I work with that I don't believe we'd "behave" any different. I just think that there are possible negative ramifications for the public that some people haven't thought about yet. (But that should be another thread).

And then there were a small % of comments saying pulling someone over for expired tags wasn't worth getting shot in the face over.

So its a pretty mixed bag, but none of the cops who commented said anything about red light cameras or higher speed limits.


Just thought you guys might like some GOOD news for a change

'Less emphasis on revenue through citation and quotas, more emphasis on retroactive felony investigations' would be my motto if someone turned to me to run a police department (which no one should)

Why not? You've just laid out a clearer vision than many police administrators I know.

Less tickets? Wish I felt that impact.

Just think of tickets as a usage tax.

Shouldn't fewer tickets, fewer people contesting, fewer people in the system, mean they can reduce the budget and operate with fewer people?

It's governmental, no such thing as lowering overhead costs.

Oh stop it.

We might have enough money in this area to start fixing some roads if we eliminated some of the waste. Instead we drive over roads that looks like the surface of the moon.

Ytown- It might also help to use Highway funding for the highways. It seems like that is often the most raided source of money for other areas


DCDAWG- One might think the less tickets, the less people who need to go to court, the less etc etc...

Thing is, the revenue funds everything else that goes on in the court house. If you ever go down to the court house, "traffic court" looks like a soup kitchen line (not in terms of how the people look... just that there's a long crowded line). There are very few resources that are needed to handle that. It's the cases upstairs (criminal court) where when a person is found to be "guilty", the court isn't getting its money back in regards to the cost of the resources spent.

Certainly the court system needs to be funded. There's just got to be a better way than gouging people.

No offense but people like you should be getting ticketed. Often.

Just a thought I had based on reading several of your posts in other threads about how you are a speed demon, want a super car, and want to feel untouchable on the roads.

Here's an idea: just drive slower.

That was a joke. not male genitals. don't take it so hard.
man...y'all snap at everything i say around here. the butt hurt....jeez dude.

just a question, where did i say i want to be untouchable on the roads? and now it's a bad thing to want to own a supercar?

https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.ph...2016#Post917555





I've read a lot of similar posts but I don't care to go searching for them

I'm just telling you the truth albeit maybe a bit too crassly.

clearly you don't understand the lingo.

so i guess i need to explain what "nobody can touch me on the roads" mean. sigh.....

Say i have the Audi R8. and you have...a Camry. You can't touch me on the roads if you tried me.

or if i had the same car, and you had a Mustang, or a Camero SS.

Hell, even certain AMG's you couldn't touch me.

I mean damn, did i really have to explain that to you?

see, i'm going to ask you this question AGAIN, since you ignored it: is wanting to own a supercar a bad thing?

Did you really think i meant i don't want cops on the road so i can do an audition for the next Fast & Furious movie?

That stick up your butt, take it out. i know it hurts man, not a good job to be sitting down while it's in there.

anyways,

My only issue with the law when it comes to traffic is they aren't getting these guys cruising in the left lane and not passing anybody. or passing people on the right.

I got personal video of the cops in Germany flying right by me while i'm doing 130mph, and pulling over this guy because he passed in the right lane instead of the left. was crazy but so cool!

but yea, this is what needs to happen IMO, for our roads to be safer:

- Enforce/make the left lane for passing only law. They do it in Texas quite often.

-Also enforce/make the no passing in the right lane law.

- an absolute BAN and enforcement on texting/talking while driving. Car's nowadays have Blue Tooth in the car, or your car radio has an AUX port to plug in to your cell phone. absolutely ZERO reason to be doing that nonsense right now. IF the call is that important, pull over into a parking lot or something and then talk.

Those right there will make the roads a bit safer.

Here's a of life/safety idea that would really work as well:

- Make more "roundabout" entries into the highway. It'll cut down on traffic, and the flow of traffic will be beneficial to everybody trying to get somewhere.

-Traffic cameras in certain spots. they help, its weird, but they help. not EVERYWHERE, but in one or two locations.

and for straight quality of life:

-The speed limit on turnpikes or outside the city limits on highways need to be bumped up. do 60-65 max on I-77 between Akron and Cleveland is DUMB. that road is open and straight. bump that up to 75mph. I-271 is slow as crap as well.

-Rural highway driving, like road trip stuff, those highways need to be bumped up to 75-80mph.

- Also, and this was a really cool idea i saw on the Autobahns. The autobahn strip that rides through Frankfurt Germany is called the A5. they having electronic Speed limit signs. during the day, the speed limit is between about 80-120km(bout 50-75mph) but around 7pm, the entire Autobahn on that strip turns to unrestricted(drive as fast as your engine can go) as is about half the autobahns in Germany.

So like, say around the cleveland area, the speed like on I-90 going through cleveland can be like 60-65mph, but in the evening up into morning, it gets bumped into 70-75mph because of less traffic.

This would free up a lot of cops, i think, i dunno how many cops waste their time on traffic, Devil you gotta school me on that. But yea, the camera's are more or less not for speeding as it is for everything else.

say there's an open part of the highway, yet some dude is cruising in the left lane for no reason. bam, he gets a ticket in the mail. or the sensors picks up a guy passing in the right lane.

sort of self-governing basically.

Just how i feel it should be.

Geez! I'm the resident Fuzz, 5.0, Pig, Jackbooted Thug, (fill in the blank) and EVEN I knew what you meant!

BTW, did I ever tell you guys my patrol car runs on PROPANE???

lol, some people man. he must be awesome a parties.

Life is good over here. I was out all night last night with cool friends and met a beautiful woman. It was a nice sunny day today and I spent much of it outside, I'm sipping on some bourbon, and posting on Dawgtalkers. I don't know why you keep talking about being butt hurt and all that. In fact, it seems like you are getting highly agitated because I gave you some blunt advice. just some food for thought.

I ignored your question about whether wanting to own a super car is a bad thing because it's kind of a loaded/demeaning question. But since you ask again-- no, I don't think wanting to own a super car is a bad thing. If you have the means to buy one, great! I think it is cool that you have the ambition to get to that point in life. It's if/when you start treating public roads as your own private racetrack that I think it is a bad thing and yes that is sometimes the impression that you give off. My apologies if that is not the case.

So, are you actually paying close to $5,000 a year for auto insurance? How did you get to that point?

Funny enough, I throw a lot of the parties and it has been a long time since someone has not had a genuinely good time. But you sure seem to know a lot about me despite having never met me and only having a couple back and forths on a message board.

I'm good over here bro. me and my wife just finished smoking a bowl, kids at my pop's house for the weekend. life is straight.

it's not a loaded question at all. i don't really ask loaded questions.

what's been getting me lately is the traffic cameras. i haven't got an actual ticket from the cops in quite a while.

but they got this traffic cam on superior road. Bruh, it's a 35mph zone, i messed up and did 39mph, well thats what the ticket says, and they charged me 95 dollars for it.

ugh..... but also the reason is my wife is considered technically a new driver. She's german, so last year was her first year having a US drivers license, and that boosted my insurance from about 200 a month to 350. Bout to swap to Geico cause progressive is raping me.

anyways, i'm not agitated. i'm just confused as why you offered advice for something that was a joke. you just came off as a stiff, especially with the "nobody can touch me on the roads" stuff.

look in the mirror. you seem to think you know a lot about me based off your initial response to me. don't want to have assumptions made about you? don't make any toward me. simple concept.

Getting a ticket from a traffic cam for going 39 in a 35 would be very annoying. I don't even consider that speeding.

Let's just call this a stupid argument over nothing. Cheers.

Swish, have you looked in to USAA? They cater to Vets and their rates are usually pretty friggin awesome. I have my car and homeowners insurance through them.

I stay away from USAA. they was trying to straight up own me with their rates man. Might as well have entered the slave trade for their prices.

Honestly, the only reason i would roll with USAA is because they literally cover your car no matter WHERE on the planet you're at. I had USA out in Europe when i was still in. Typical car insurance like AIG Europe or Geico, They would only cover your car in western European countries.

So say you wanted to drive to like....eh...Slovakia. Man i tried calling AIG about that, and they literally laughed into the phone and said no. combine with that, countries like that aren't part of the EU, so it isn't open border to just drive through.

like for instance: I can drive through France, Netherlands, Czech, etc, and not worry about border checks. it sucked though cause when you go through, there's no HEY WELCOME TO FRANCE!! signs. its just a EU symbol and it says "France". boring.

anyways, so with SOME eastern european countries, like Croatia you'd have to show a passport at the border, at least when you leave. on top of that, some require special insurance since you can't use your normal insurance, which is EXPENSIVE.

But USAA? man bro...covered. anywhere. Me and my homeboy made this seriously...dumb ** decision that we was going to take leave and drive to Tirana, Albania. so many countries we had to stop and get checked at. but with USAA we was GOOD. i loved USAA out there.

but since i'm no longer over seas, USAA can bite me lol

I would call you Sir or Officer, unless I was drinking then it would be Shiirr, or occiffer

I've never had to do any driving overseas, but that sounds handy!

I remember the last time I went to secure a car loan. I had found a car and was at the credit union getting the $$ and they wanted the insurance lined up before cutting the check. We call USAA, tell them what's going on, and dude starts trying to sell me a car loan! While I'm calling from the credit union loan officer's phone! And he wouldn't let it go.. almost like one of those audio clips of dude trying to cancel his AOL and the rep won't let him.

Other than that I've had no issues with them and I've totaled 2 cars (1 was my fault, the other not, and both were Jeeps)... oh hell, I just realized that... and I just added another Jeep to my policy...

I actually have a pig tie tac that I wear to court

I remember one night a couple summers ago, it was about 2 am and 80 degrees out. I'm driving up the road and see some guy walking down the sidewalk and do a double take. I flip my car around, throw on my blue lights, get out and engage the man in conversation:

Me: Hey man, how's it goin?

Him: Ah, pretty well!

Me: Nice night for a walk huh?

Him: (all smiles) Yep!

Me: Where ya comin from?

Him: A party.

Me: Where's the party?

Him: Uh.. over there (as he points in a random direction).

Me: I see. So where's your clothes?

Him: At the party!

Old guy was trudging along in nothing but his tighty whiteys, hammered. He was able to tell me his address on the far side of town so I gave him a ride. It didn't occur to me until after we got there that he wouldn't have a key to his apartment because he didn't have any pants. Good thing it was 80 out. A day shift officer ended up finding the guys pants and wallet in the bed of a pick up truck on a nearby car lot.

i am just glad the day shift guy found my pants

Ytown,I know where you talking about: Lake Park Rd,Matthews Rd,Southern Blvd by 224 intersection,Campbell side streets,422 from 616 to Lincoln Park bridge(wonder how WRTA holds up traveling there all day),South Ave from Lake Park Rd intersection to light at Scam's Club,Indianola Rd,to name a few if not driving LOC or weaving in out lanes you probably end up in foreign country or center of Earth with Anthony Mason and Pat Boone. Oh as far as fewer tickets not in Campbell they have exceeded the 3200 plus of last year.