DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The QB Situation in 2016-2017

I interpreted JT's comments as frank rather than harsh. I think it was a great display of team leadership.

I get the feeling there are personal issues between he and Joe which is not what you want between your LT and QB. I have serious doubts if the split that developed with Hoyer and Manziel can be repaired now. Its a pretty cheap shot by Joe to be honest. Joe helped create much of the rift by going to the press and sayign the team will quit if Johnny is named the starter.

I will be honest, I no longer worry about just the QB position but also that LT position. This is not good. All the losing may have made Joe bitter but his comments in no way help this team come together. Its just not the right time to be speaking up in the press. Its pretty cheap. I am a huge huge Joe fan and I dont know but Pettine has his hands full.

It may be time to clean sweep the offense.

Having not been on the boards since Friday afternoon I have a few thoughts to add to this discussion...

#1 - My thoughts on our current QB situation? Currently I don't like it. I didn't like the Josh McCown signing. I think he was a one (half) year wonder in Chicago and that we probably shouldn't expect to much production out of him. I am optimistic that if we have an A+ running game and an A+ defense, we can get the same production from him that we got from Brain Hoyer. As far as Johnny Manziel goes, I was glad we drafted him last year, I was excited for his moxy, winning attitude and high ceiling potential. Now? I'm completely turned off by the kid. His lack of work ethic, preparation, and complete disregard for his teammates has me ready to throw in the towel on him. I don't even care that he looked bad for 6 quarters of football, I think because of his lazy attitude and off-field issues, he doesn't DESERVE to be a Brown. Connor Shaw? Probably to weak of an arm to ever be more than a backup, He was undrafted for a reason. The only way we're winning games this year (in my opinion) is if we have a very good running game, and a very strong defense, while McCown plays efficiently and avoids turnovers.

#2 - How do we fix our QB situation? If we didn't have five glaring holes that needed filled, I would say trade the kitchen sink to Tampa Bay for the #1 overall pick to draft Jameis Winston. However, in my opinion, we're in desperate need of a NT, OLB pass rusher, TE, RT and WR. That's five positions that need addressed with our first five picks (in any order based on BPA). There really isn't a full-proof way to fix our QB situation this year unless we could trade for someone such as Nick Foles, Sam Bradford or even Robert Griffin III. I know many of you would argue that none of those guys are solutions to our QB problem, but any of them would be better than 35-year old career backup McCown and 22-year old complete and utter mystery whose lost the locker room Johnny Manziel. The logical solution is to spend a 3rd or 4th round pick on a quarterback such as Bryce Petty or Sean Mannion and see if either of them can compete with McCown/Manziel in training camp. If one of them turns out to be a gem? Awesome.

#3 - How will we look going into 2016/2017? That's tough to say honestly. There is that small 5% chance that Manziel DOES turn his life around, and looks miles better this year at QB. It's also possible that McCown plays well, gets us to a 9-7 or 10-6 record (Not likely, but possible if we have an A+ run game and A+ defense) and we're comfortable going with him into the 2016 season. Maybe our rookie QB (Petty or Mannion) looks good and shows promise and we roll with him going into 2016? It's hard to predict beyond the 2015 season, but the LIKELY scenario is that we'll still need a QB in the 2016 draft. I like Connor Cook from Michigan State, but who the hell knows where we'll be drafting.

The best way we help ourselves is to continue to fill holes around the QB and on defense (NT, OLB, TE, WR and RT) and select a middle-round quarterback and hope he can pan out and at least push to start right away. If we're still in need of a QB come Spring of 2016 maybe Farmer and company will be willing to trade the entire farm to move up in the draft, at least we'll have a lot less holes to fill.

Joe Thomas I feel was out of line for talking about team problems in public but he also speaks the truth that all of us already knew. Professionals will never take a party boy seriously. I said that before the draft and its still true. When a MAN puts his livelihood on the line he doesn't want a spoiled child leading him. In college it was ok but now Manziel is in the real world so its up to him to mature and do it FAST.

Sometimes that kind of brutal honesty can motivate a teammate to step his ass up and be a professional. Johnny Manziel is in a position that very few people get to be in, and instead of working hard for his city, fans and more importantly his teammates he chose to be lazy, not study his playbook or film and party in his free time. He even admitted as much. Joe Thomas doesn't need to grab Johnny by the hand and baby him, this is the NFL. If Manziel's feelings get hurt by this, he probably shouldn't be attempting to play QB, what those comments SHOULD do is motivate Manziel.

Who in the hell is talking about hand holding. I am talking about your team leader going to the press with crap from last fall for no damn reason. He was wrong by saying the team would quit if Johnny was named the starter. That isnt what you want from your leader. He can tell that to Pettine all he wants but going to the press with that stuff wasnt calling out a player, it was telling the team its ok to quit for the Bengals game.

Any other player comes out with the stuff before OTAs and everyone would rip them a new one. Sorry but Joe is wrong and I expect him to take this stuff to Johnny and Pettine, not going to the press while Johnny is in rehab. Its cheap and is the kind of stuff that can become a team cancer.

Its not about hurting Manziel's feelings, its about dividing the damn team.

It's interesting reading all the different responses. A lot of people [myself included] have very different takes from others. It's pretty cool that we have all these different takes on this thread and the personal attacks have been minimized. Look at Florida's and Mr. Kelso's takes. Very different, but both were logically stated and done so w/out any BS. Pretty cool.

On the Joe vs. Johnny comments. Strong comments by Joe. I still think they are harsh, but I get what the one guy was talking about. I have to think that Johnny's behavior had to be really awful for Joe to say such things. Hopefully, JM gets the message.

I think I was fooled by a few things I saw while JM was in college. I saw him getting in guy's faces and really pumping them up or holding them accountable. I remember how he did that to Evans after Evans was pouting after a couple of mistakes. I never realized how much his off-the-field activities were affecting his lack of preparation time. Man, it would be a great story if he could somehow turn it around. Hollywood would make a movie out of that story.

Vers my take is that you can see a defense coming together as one unit. Even when calling out Gilbert there was a reason a methodology to it. It was a team thing, likely directed by the coaches.

When I go back to last year before Hoyer was benched. Joe came out said the team would quit if Hoyer was replaced. I thought it was one of the absolute most destructive comment that I have heard from a player since a certain running back said he decided not to play because his agent told him not to.

I see these comments in the same light again, there is nothing here meant to pull the team together. It just sounded bitter. I know I am a Johnny defender but this has nothing to do about Johnny. I would say the same thing if Dansby and Whitner came out and started rehashing old laundry with Gilbert. Its really a low class move. If this locker is truly split this bad, no one should blame Shanny for wanting out of here.

unless something dramatically changes in this attitude, we will see the worst offense ever assembled. This is bad, really really bad.

Pettine needs to sit down with both guys and get this straightened out. I dont care if he has to get rid of one or both at this point but you cant have this going on.

Frank comments can be harsh. Sometimes being open and honest means saying something harsh.

Johnny made this bed. Up to him to redeem himself.

you don't have to but I'd like to educate myself.

Any way you can give the story/article where JT stated:
Joe came out said the team would quit if Hoyer was replaced.

Sometimes there are different interpretations of what was said "exact quote and context" only cause I don't quite remember that which doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Thank you in advance.

Sorry Mourg I just don't see the aminosity that you do. Everything Joe said has been hashed out in/out locker room and the press for the last 8 months. All Joe is saying is whats been said since Johnny started running around. It's time to get to work and if you do then the Team will support you. I find nothing wrong or hateful in his words. Just it's put up or shut up time.

Yeah and not just from "teammates", but by virtually all of our leaders and veteran we have. Whitner, Karlos and Joe have went public and shamed JF and Gilbert.

The only problem I have of that is if the kids are too stupid to do anything about the critism. Thus far, Gilbert working out with Haden and Manziel enrollment in rehab, so maybe their eyes are opening.

We can only hope.

You're 100% correct.



Well first of all, I'm betting that Joe Thomas isn't the only one that was angered by Manziel's lack of preparation and off-field antics last season. Thomas was in film rooms, was at meetings and practices last year and he knows a lot better than we do what Manziel was like. If your quarterback isn't the hardest working guy on the team, and isn't taking the job seriously, you've got a big stinkin' problem and I'm sure Joe and a lot of the other veterans saw that too. I'm betting that the vast majority of the locker room would side with Thomas on this matter if there was any kind of divided locker room issue. As far as I'm concerned (and apparently as far as Thomas is concerned) Manziel has to come back and EARN the respect of his teammates back.

I can understand where you're coming from, it's never good for a teammate to air out dirty laundry to the press, but Manziel and his struggles are no secret to anyone, and it's not like Thomas called a press conference to express his displeasure, a reporter stuck a microphone in his face and he answered their question in a blunt and direct way. As I said before, if you're quarterback isn't the hardest working player on the team, you have a problem.

I still see no issue with what Thomas said.

I'm sure EVERY player on the team is rooting for Manziel to get his off-field life together, as I am too, but as far as on the field and with his teammates, Manziel has A LOT of work to do.

EO...I agree 100%.
It's entirely possible that JT spoke out of "well justified" frustration. JT has been with our Browns for 8 seasons with only 1 of those seasons having a winning record.

JT is the ultimate pro AND teammate and, as far as I can recall, has NEVER called anyone out. He puts 100% into EVERY game and play.

With all the juvenile, arrogant behavior JM displayed ALL season in 2014, you cannot really blame JT for asking for the same out of the "team leader".
Then when JM finally gets to see the field he flat out stunk up the place.

Maybe JT should not have made these comments in a public forum, but the truth hurts and for some people it takes a good Smack in the back of the head to get the head on straight again.

So I am not trying to start trouble, I do see though Vers that they asked you a specific question about what you would do THIS offseason. Whether you agree with Manziel or not, he is here and Teddy is not.

I am curious what you would have done this year as well?

Vers, I have two questions for you.

1. Well, this is more of a comment. Manziel's story, that I heard a couple times, never denied the partyboy lifestyle, but did say that he was 100% about football during the season. Now, you can certainly argue that even that level of focus isn't enough for an NFL starter, but that's a pointless argument because we didn't even get that out of him.

2. Your original post in the thread talked about looking back in order to make better future choices at the QB position. Knowing what we do now, how do you view the Marriota vs Winston debate? Do you say Winston is the better prepared QB because he operated out of a pro-style O, or do you avoid him like the plague because he's an entitled idiot.

I agree 100%, I have no problem with what JT said or that he said it in public. If anything, I believe it is GREAT that he said it in public. First, JT speaks with more authority than anybody else in the organization... He confirmed what the entire sports world already knew to be true.. Manziel didn't work hard enough and was immature. It's great that JT basically confirmed that inside the facility they saw the same thing we saw from outside the facility. He also said what we as Browns fans all HOPE to be true, and that is that if Manziel applies himself, that he has a lot of talent and can still have a very good career.

With that said, if Manziel comes back and hasn't made a significant improvement, I doubt JT is going to be as nice this time next year... and I wouldn't expect him to be.

If that situation occurs, I would guess Thomas says something like, "I don't like to comment on players who are not on the team."

As to original question, it's premature to pull the plug on a guy who has seen about a game and a quarter of actual field time. McCown got brought in because he'll deal with being the backup if need be whereas Hoyer wants to be the man (which he won't be in Houston either). Basically, McCown gives a clearer road for Manziel to take the starting job.

So Manziel gets 2015 to prove his worth.

Do we draft a QB? If we're in a good spot to get one at the right value, I'd say yes. If Mariota for some reason falls, you can bet your ass we'll likely take him. If Petty or Greyson is there in the 3rd- possible. If either are there in the 4th, you can guarantee it. Otherwise, maybe its a late rounder on Mannion or Brandon Bridge or Blake Sims or whoever.

So 2015 Manziel has a shot to show he's the man....the same shot that Hoyer had and didn;t quite do. If he's not, we're likely picking top 15 again and we're in the market for a QB.....again.

Although if that happens, I'd be curious to see what QBs are free agents next year.

If Tennessee decides they don't want Mariota, we will be among the teams trying to trade up for him.

I dunno. Mariota has gifts but most scouts and experts are saying he needs some significant work to adjust to the pro game. Do you mortgage the future on a good but not great prospect that isn't a day one starter?

I think Tennessee will ask too much and the RG3 scenario showed teams how harmful mortgaging your future can be.

I don't know if I like or dislike Mariota. I just get the inkling that we will be one of his main suitors if the Titans don't want him.

y'all think the bucs are locked in for Winston? or do y'all think there's a small chance they roll with glennon?

I think its pretty much a guarantee they go with Winston. Keeps an in-state guy in Florida and Lovie gets to tie his wagon to his QB rather than an inherited one.

If they went Leonard Williams at top pick though, could you imagine him and McCoy on the same DL? hoooooo boy.

0% chance they roll with Glennon.

This is NOT about me. It's about the Browns and the QB situation.

If it was about me, I wouldn't be in this ridiculous situation, because I would have drafted Big Ben years ago.

I would have drafted either Aaron Rodgers after that.

I would have drafted Teddy last year.

You guys can dismiss the mistake of Farmer passing on Teddy for Johnny if you like, but it's been less than one year ago. It's relevant because we would NOT be in this situation if we hadn't made that mistake.

He's asking you what would you have done THIS offseason, different from the FO. not last year.

I do think Winston is better prepared for the NFL game. Personally, I want no part of Mariotta. I am not saying that he won't ever be able to read coverages, but I have not seen him do so. That would scare me off. Heck, JM read coverages better in college than MM.

Winston? He has tools. He is football smart. But, he scares me. I wouldn't move up for him. I really want a qb, but he is a gamble.

I think you are a smart guy and I value your opinion, so let me ask you a question. The Browns have had a lot of negative press. Josh Gordon in the news for all the wrong reasons. Gilbert being a jerk. Manziel partying his career away. Text gate. Shanny leaving for a lateral job. Firing a HC, a GM, and Team President w/in a year. Haslam's legal scandals at Pilot. Bess flaking out. Haslam may have flexed his muscles and demanded we take JM over TB. So, here is the question: Can the Browns really afford to be wrong again? What if we move up for Winston and he rapes a girl? Can you imagine? Heck, what if we move up in the draft for Mariotta and he can't read coverages?

Can we put ourselves in that position? I am truthfully interested in your take. I would also like some of the other deep thinkers to weigh in on those questions.

I can see why we would not go all in because both guys are huge question marks and we have made some terrible decisions lately in regards to character issues and picking guys who were not NFL ready. I can also see that until you have a franchise qb, you gotta keep going after one.

So, what do you think?

So freaking what? I asked several questions that they did not answer. Why not get on their ass about not answering my questions?

Don't freaking start, Swish!

This has been a good thread w/out all the usual personality conflicts. Rip me on another thread if you feel the need. We are actually talking football on this thread.

It's like you guys look for fights.

How can you completely ignore last year's draft when the same guys are running both this year's and last year's drafts?

ummm...you need to chill. I simply was explaining to you what he meant by his post. that's it man. calm down.

Would you like to contribute to the discussion?

You guys are more than welcome to start a thread of about how the Browns SHOULD have handled the QB position AFTER they blew last year's draft.........if you like. LOL

I've already contributed to the discussion.

And said what i would've done this offseason if i was running the show. Don't really know why the FO did what they did, but they're the experts so...nothing i can do about it.

These are your questions from the post that began this thread:



Saying, "We should have just draft [insert player's name here]" doesn't actually accomplish anything.

Not sure what I would have done this off-season. I would have liked to go after Foles, but also can see that they may not have known at that time that Foles would be available.

As far as Mariotta, no thanks, I saw nothing about him I liked in the few games during the post-season I cared for, at least not enough to trade up for. I would have taken a shot at Bradford staying healthy before giving up picks to get Mariotta.

I liked the signings of Hartline, Bowe and Williams. But we still need to draft young talent to groom.

At this point I'm willing to see how Johnny does in OTAs (Assuming he participates), and if he puts in the effort. Then if things go well, go into the season with him and see where we go from there. We aren't getting a franchise QB in this years draft, at least we shouldn't unless we strike gold on a late round pick (IE Brady)

Not sure why you think you are entitled to feel you have the right to tell other people what to think.

If you don't like the thread, stay the hell off of it. It's pretty simple.

I like Foles, too. Not sure we could have got him because of the Bradford thing. Perhaps if we would have moved quicker. Thanks for sticking to the thread topic.

Did Thomas and company lay down in the 30-0 Bengal loss?