DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The QB Situation in 2016-2017

At this point I say we go all in with Manziel. Barring injury he needs to play all 16 games. Even if the team goes 0 and 16.

If he is a disaster then we have just tanked for Cardell Jones or Christain Hackenburg.

If he somehow someway catches on and finds the magic he had in college then we have our QB.

Trading a 1st in 2015 for another 1st in 2016 but finishing out of the top pick will not get us a QB. Either win with what we have or fail epic with what we have and go forward from there.

Yes, that is the way it appears.

It's just a bit depressing for me that we will most likely, but not assuredly, in the same position next year in regards to knowing whether or not we have our franchise qb on the roster.

Hopefully, JM lights it up. I don't think he will, but I am rooting for him and I hope that all Brown's fans are in his corner. I know a bunch of people don't like him and I get that, but the best thing for the Browns is for JM to suddenly get it and start performing miracles.

I really think they and others thought Johnny would work out. I have a feeling that Pettine feels just like we do about the situation. As for farmer, what can he do about it now. The FA market is full of guys like McCown. I like Bradford"s talent, but the guy has not really done anything since he has been in the league. The Rams have sucked just as we have, and counted on him to be their savior. It didn't work out for them, so they traded QB with Philly, and now have another question mark at QB. Foles looked good, but the same questions can be asked about him that have been asked about others. Small sample, and was it the scheme, lack of film on him, or does he really have it? I don't think anyone is sure right now. But, one thing is sure, the Rams were done with him.

Our situation is what it is. I don't think they have a choice now as to not at least let Johnny try again. I don't think they are banking that he will turn it around, and thus they brought in a guy who could manage things until something better comes along. I wanted to keep Hoyer, but feel now that he was in the mode of I'm the starter or I want out. I don't blame him, but I don't care for that type of attitude from a guy with limited skills. He played well when everything was right around him, and that was it.

As for what to do now, what;s done is done. I think McCown was chosen because he knows he is not the answer, but will get a chance and has no problem playing the mentor to his competition. I really don't see him being worse or better than Hoyer. I hope that because of the nature of the QBs around the league who are available, that the FO does concentrate on strengthening what they can until a viable solution presents himself.

As for drafting a guy, I want no part of Mariota. His game against Ohio State showed me that he is just another spread QB that will need time to figure out defenses and adjust to the pro game. With our fanbase and the failure this team has had up to this point as far as QBs go, we need to get someone who can play in a pro style offense right away. I think Winston is the only guy who has that skill day one.

That being said, Winston comes with baggage. The question is should we overlook it, and take another leap of faith? If so fine, but if not, I say don't let other parts of the team suffer while hoping it will work. Strengthen what you can in this draft, and take one of the lower round guys and see if they will develop.

It is what it is, only time will show what happens.



I reposted this, just to prove that I was on topic, and did not derail this thread.

I left out the spilled milk comments as to not offend anybody. I think it is a legitimate response to the question posed.
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Speaking of the Rams, that Davis kid I thought performed as well as Bradford ever did. He just didnt have any weapons.

j/c

Going with the assumption that we will be looking for a QB next year, and the only way this doesn't happen is if JM figures it out. The first thing to do is accumulate extra picks. If we can trade the 19 for a first rounder next year, and say a second rounder and change this year, that is a start. I really don't know what the trading chart would say about the value of 19...
The next problem is I think our defense is going to be good. How ironic, the defense keeps us in games. So if we finish in the middle of the pack, it is still going to take several picks to move up. With that in mind, it brings us full circle to JM. We need to find out what we have in him. If he can't handle it, we finish that much worse and that much closer to a shot at a franchise QB.
However, if the browns really believe that Winston or Mariotta is the guy- maybe they just go all in and get the QB this year..... Would the bucs turn down three first round picks???? Not saying I would do it, but the browns do have the ammo to offer.

Big I don't think the Browns with JF will be worth spit which is fine sort of.

This defense will NOT carry the offense, and I think will be at the top of the draft next season.

If there was a way I would move out of both 1st round picks this season and let some of the smoke clear. Let's see if Gilbert can be the guy we hoped for lets see if JF can turn his career around and then lets enter next years draft with 3 1st's and see what kind of players we need to fill the gaps.

If we move out of 12 we should be able to get a 2nd this year and a 1st next then we should be able to swing a 3rd this year and yet another 1st next year. If we can move off these picks for this season I think we could set the table for a killer draft in 16 that fills our needs better and land the QB of our dreams all at the same time.

It's frustrating to think about how far that kicks the can down the road but if we move up in this draft I think it will like cost us both 1sts and perhaps next years 1st as well, which i think ham strings the franchise down the road. However, if we can be patient a push of this draft in exchange for next years draft we can do anything we want pretty much. I think with JF starting will be at or very near the top of next years draft.

Not to mention I think that if we do indeed move up in this draft we should only do that deal for JW and it will mean we will have to be more active in FA come next off season which I don't like trying to build that way.

Long story short I agree lets move the draft to next year if we can?

I don't blame Ray Farmer for missing on Johnny Manziel.

I think it's been made pretty clear that Farmer was a big fan of Derek Carr, I would bet my next paycheck that it was Jimmy Haslam who was pushing hard for the team to draft Johnny Manziel.

It's a real damn shame that our scouts and F/O didn't do enough homework on him seeing as his off-the-field issues have probably been a lot worse than they expected, but I cannot blame them for wanting Manziel.

An athletic young kid with a ton of popularity and huge upside. Sometimes with a struggling franchise you HAVE to roll the dice and see if you can give your team a spark.

It just didn't work out that way.

Not very upbeat anymore.

Yet you are not sticking to the topic. The topic of the thread is QB situation 2016-2017 NOT 2013. You have been asked several times on what you would do THIS OFFSEASON and keep deflecting the question and not answering it. Which is a common thing that you do. You have still not answered the question. I am sure you will not answer yet again, but what would you have done THIS offseason.

Draft Austin Dodge late or sign as a free agent. Groom him for 2017. Prettiest deep ball I've seen this draft class. Will need work under center and reading nfl defenses. Level of competition will also be a major adjustment, but won't have the rush to get in the game that the bigger name QBs will. Low risk, potentially high reward.

Just watched a bit of him. Does throw a great deep ball. Unfortunately, he stares down receivers like a mo' fo. Total tunnel vision.

Finally someone posts logic instead of all this doom and gloom. It'll be a little iffy Farmer pulling off both trades. This years first round talent is nothing special maybe an upgrade over 2013. Farmer can still add quality depth and receiver. Overall next year looks better. If JF does show something, it puts Browns ahead of the game.

I would def get out of 1 of the picks. Depending on who is available at 12. I would love a WR at 12, one of the big three, then trade 19 for a second and next years first if possible????

If you can get a future first, while also keeping a first for the current year (like we did last year), you have to do it.

I have advocated trading for a future 1st several times. You probably missed it cause I'm new

I am not advocating either making that trade or not. But, ponder this: if the Browns make that move they are admitting that they made a huge mistake on drafting Manziel and they are giving up on him after just one year.

Do you think that is a possibility?

I don't see that it naturally follows that moving the extra 1st round pick forward is an admission of a mistake or that they are giving up on him. I see it more as giving him one more year to prove himself before having to commit to another direction. At the same time it is giving them the ammo to make that move if he doesn't prove out.

Report: Browns insert Johnny Manziel into trade talks for Sam Bradford, but Eagles aren’t really interested

The Browns have discussed shipping troubled quarterback Johnny Manziel and draft picks to the Philadelphia Eagles as part of a potential trade for quarterback Sam Bradford, but the Eagles aren’t really interested in dealing for Manziel, BleacherReport.com’s Jason Cole reported Wednesday, citing an unnamed source in the Browns’ organization.
Cole issued the report in an online video. He also wrote on Twitter that the idea of throwing Manziel into a possible deal came from the Browns.
The Browns’ interest in Bradford is old news, but the inclusion of Manziel, the 22nd overall pick in last year’s draft, in trade talks would be an interesting development.
The Eagles, according to the report, are angling to trade up from the 20th overall pick in the April 30-May 2 NFL Draft in pursuit of Oregon quarterback Marcus Mariota, the reigning Heisman Trophy winner who played for Eagles coach Chip Kelly in college.
The Browns own two first-round selections (Nos. 12 and 19 overall) and, according to ESPN, had previously offered the 19th choice to the St. Louis Rams for Bradford before the Rams instead traded him to the Eagles in exchange for quarterback Nick Foles.
“There has been a discussion of a trade between Cleveland and Philadelphia,” Cole said in the video. “This is basically a resuscitation of trade talks from before when the Cleveland Browns had expressed interest in Sam Bradford previously.
“In talking to a source within the Browns’ organization, yes, there has been some discussion of Manziel possibly being traded. But that’s not really what the Eagles are looking for.
“Because if the Eagles are going to make this trade and send Bradford off to get draft picks back, the whole point is to put together a package of draft picks that will eventually get them to Marcus Mariota. That’s the plan, as of now, for the Eagles. Johnny Manziel is not in the front of their thinking.”
As of Wednesday, Manziel remained in inpatient rehabilitation for possible substance abuse. A photograph of him visiting a girl in a Hershey, Pa., hospital surfaced Wednesday on Twitter. He has made other hospital visits since he entered rehab Jan. 28 because it’s part of his treatment plan.
Last month at the NFL owners meetings, Browns coach Mike Pettine said he expects Manziel to be discharged from rehab in time to report to team headquarters for the start of the offseason conditioning program April 20. General Manager Ray Farmer said he expects Manziel to be available to play this year.
The Browns know they can’t count on Manziel at this point -- they signed veteran Josh McCown in February, and he’s their projected starting quarterback right now -- but they hope Manziel can become healthy and piece his life and career together. Pettine, Farmer and owner Jimmy Haslam have said they’re not giving up on him and still have reasons to believe he can succeed in the NFL despite his stint in rehab and poor performance as a rookie (the offense scored just three points in his six quarters as a starter last season).
In 2010, Manziel verbally committed to play for Kelly at Oregon before ultimately switching his commitment to Texas A&M.
“He broke my heart,” Kelly told reporters last year.
Still, trading for a player in rehab would be an enormous risk, one that seems unrealistic for Kelly to take.
As for Bradford, Rams coach Jeff Fisher said at the owners meetings that the Browns first engaged in trade discussions for him the weekend of March 7. But the Rams dealt him to the Eagles on March 10 because they wanted a veteran quarterback in return, and Foles fit the description.
Fisher said “there were numerous things that were discussed” with the Browns, but Cleveland never offered a player or the 12th overall pick for Bradford, the No. 1 overall choice in 2010 who has suffered a torn anterior cruciate ligament in each of the past two years.
After the trade went through, Kelly held a news conference on March 11 and said an unnamed team offered him a first-round pick for Bradford that morning. At the owners meetings, Kelly declined to reveal whether it was the Browns.
Kelly has insisted he didn’t acquire Bradford as trade bait.
Perhaps Kelly is bluffing, but even if he were able to move up to No. 12 in a deal with the Browns, he would still need to make another trade to secure Mariota, who’s widely considered a surefire top-10 pick.
From the Browns’ perspective, there could be another significant obstacle standing in the way of a deal.
Last month, Sports Illustrated’s Peter King reported Bradford would not have been willing to sign to sign a new deal this offseason if he were traded to the Browns, but he is willing to consider a contract extension with the Eagles. Bradford is scheduled to make $12.9 million in the final year of his rookie deal this upcoming season.
A rumor about Manziel-Bradford trade discussions first circulated online Monday after ChatSports.com published a story citing “a source very close to an agent involved in the trade talks.”

By Nate Ulrich
Beacon Journal sports writer

http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/report...rested-1.581662

But why they want to give up a first round pick this year if they are not interested in a QB next year? I'm not following your logic....

I don't know.............all of those rumors confuse me. They don't seem to make much sense and I don't see a rhyme or reason to them.

Can anyone make sense of this?

No... I think it's implausible to believe anything. I mean we've heard it all from various JF rumors, Haslam to Tennessee and just the list continues. I'd fall asleep typing the list out.

Moving the pick forward buys Manziel a year before they have to commit. If he flops, they have the ammo to make a move on a top QB next year, if he proves out, they can use that extra pick for whatever else they need.

j/c
Farmer will end up getting Bradford. All it will cost is Alex Mack, Joe Thomas, Joe Haden and both First and a fourth....

I just don't understand the obsession with Bradford, if any of this is true.

Manziel, might turn it around. He might flop. BUT I don't see any Super Bowl rings on Bradford.

Okay, I see what you are saying. Protection. That makes sense.

Not sure I agree w/making that move. I gotta think about it more. But, thanks for explaining.

Yeah, all the rumors are mind-boggling.

some is rumor but it is a fact we were going to give a first for bradford. so i have zero problem thinking we try to do a trade with for johnny and a second for the guy.

In 2010, Manziel verbally committed to play for Kelly at Oregon before ultimately switching his commitment to Texas A&M.
“He broke my heart,” Kelly told reporters last year.

kelly wants at least a first round pick off us. farmer is trying to do it on the cheap. thats all. i think we will end up on draft day trading a first and either johnny or another draft pick for him. jmo.

Maybe you are right. It just doesn't make sense to me. Again, you could be right. Not saying you are not. I am not belittling your opinion. I just can't wrap my head around this trade.

I don't agree w/all of it, but I actually think that this is a good post. There are many good points.

I simply cannot stand when other posters tell me what to post and what not to post. Sorry, but in my mind you simply cannot ignore us passing on Teddy for Johnny. Telling me to not think about is absurd.

With that said, you made a lot of good points in your post. I enjoyed reading it. Would love to see more of that.

This was my original post.

The more I hear and read, the more I think the plan is to acquire Bradford. They tried to get him from St. Louis, but didn't have a viable QB option to send in return.

Kelly want's Mariota. He needs another 1st round pick to trade up to get him. He wasn't happy with Foles, so seeing that Cleveland wants Bradford and have 2 first rounders, decided to inject himself into the equation. He traded Foles for Bradford and is now working the Browns for their #12. The Browns are offering #19. Now they are waiting for the other to cave.

If they can't come to an agreement, the Eagles have Bradford, but not Mariota. The Browns still have 2 picks and Manziel for the coming season. Setting personal opinions of Bradford aside, if all this is true, who is in the better bargaining position?

If what you say is true, I don't think it is, then the trade won't go down until draft day. If the Titans want Mariota, none of what you say matters.

Also, if Mariota is available for what the Eagles could possibly offer (if they traded Bradford to us for pick 12), then why wouldn't we just trade for Mariota?

None of this is adding up.

Thanks for critique of my thinking. But you didn't answer the question?

I didn't directly answer the question, but I think that it can be inferred through my post that I think that the Browns are in a better spot under most circumstances.

If the Browns want Mariota (and he becomes available), they are in the better position because they already have more ammunition than the Eagles without making a trade.

If the Browns want Bradford and the Eagles want Mariota (and he becomes available), the Browns are in the better position because the Eagles will need the Browns pick(s) to trade up to get Mariota.

If the Titans want Mariota, the Eagles are in a better position as they will still have a QB that has a chance at being good.

In the end I think that if Mariota is actually available, our front office would rather give up assets to get him instead of Bradford. I don't think Mariota will be available.

Here is why I think we wouldn't just trade for Mariota. The Browns think we are on the brink, a few pieces and we can win, the key piece being a QB. Mariota (and Manziel for that matter) have to learn how to play in the NFL. Bradford has already learned. I think the Browns think he can step into this team and lead them to victory.

Idont think there is anything at all to the Bradford stuff. I think it is Chip trying to defend his moronic trade to get the guy to begin with.

I understand and have thought of this premise. It just doesn't make sense to me in the end. What has Bradford actually accomplished?

I don't understand how Bradford, with his injury history and contract situation, is worth more than Foles. It literally makes no sense to me.

Shefter does seem to have pretty good sources, I also believe Glazer is pretty reputible.