DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season The NFL Draft 2015 The DOLE factor

Premise: Any team will become better by drafting of a superior Offensive Line. Of late this has become the Dallas Offensive Line Effect or DOLE.

Evidence: Both Romo and Murray became better players when Dallas dropped high draft choices on Smith, Frederick and Martin.

Counterpoint or why it does not apply to all NFL Teams. You need a quality NFL player to begin with (e.g. Romo, Murray) to make it work.

You may agree or disagree, but when your problem is one position, fixing another may not help you as much as you would hope.

I'm in 100% agreement.

Building an elite offensive line would help WHOEVER we have under center and in the backfield.

If I were Ray Farmer, I would be selecting Ereck Flowers the OT out of Miami at #12 or #19 to fix the right tackle spot. Move Schwartz inside and let him compete with Greco for the RG spot.

Personally, I think the only chance in hell we're competitive and can win this up coming season is if we have an A+ running game, and an A+ defense that can create turnovers and extra possessions (as well as keeping the score low and manageable for our offense). If we build an ELITE offensive line, we can get by with Bowe, Hartline and Hawkins as our primary receivers (Gabriel as the immediate backup). I do believe we need a TE in the 3rd or 4th round though.

It would also be smart to take a quality center maybe in the 4th round to backup Alex Mack and start grooming him in case Mack opts out of his contract next year.

Not to pick on anyone , but his nothing new .. The game is won and lost in the trenches ! The Problem has been , and as of right now , is at the top of the Franchise .. Ownership and GM ..

We have an elite OL. Man, I don't know what Browns fans expect. We lost our All Pro Center to injury. We could not compensate with other players. That was a horrible thing, but if you look at the early going, we were destroying teams with our OL/run game ..... and it was only after Mack got hurt that we stalled in that regard.

This OL was so dominant that we could come back from huge deficits owing as much due to running the ball as to throwing the ball. Mack will be back this coming year, and I expect this OL to again be a dominant unit.

Do I think that we should use a draft pick on a developmental guy, maybe a T or a C to sit and learn this year? That would be a great idea. Do I think that we should use a 1st round pick on one? Absolutely not. This team needs weapons and a QB. I would look at a run stuffer and an outside pass rusher in the 1st. (or a receiver, if one of the top guys falls to us) Building a great OL is a great idea .... and we have done that already. We are diminished if one of our front line players goes down. That happens when you have great front line players. There is a limit to how many top draft picks you can use on any one unit, and especially on the OL. We have holes that need to be filled with great players. IMHO, we finished the starting OL last year with the addition of Bitonio. Now we can add developmental and backup/future starters in the middle rounds.

There are valid points on both sides of the OL argument. When all our starters are healthy, we have a top 5 OL. But as last year showed, injuries to key starters (Mack or Thomas) can cripple the line. Having quality backups are very important. Having guys in training to take over in the future is a good plan.

We also have many needs. It looks to me that there are OL prospects who will add both depth and can develop into future starters available through the 5th round. I would rather use the first 2-3 rounds to address other needs.

I don't see our offensive line as currently being elite, because to me Mitchell Schwartz is still a big liability in pass protection. Early in the year when our running game and play-action attack was dominating it masked Schwartz and the right side for the most part, but when you break his game down and really watch footage from the end of the year on passing downs he was always the guy consistently giving up the pressure.

I also want to add something.

Dallas had Romo, Murray, Witten and Bryant already in place when they began to draft OL in the 1st round for what ....3 years in a row. (?)

It's not like they had bums, and those bums improved dramatically when they drafted several linemen.

With an A+ running game, and an A+ offensive line, the skill players we have now will be capable of producing at a high level. That's just my opinion. I don't disagree that we need to add some skill players via the draft, I'm just all in favor of finding another elite tackle to plug in on the right side. Injuries happen, so hopefully we can find some quality depth in this draft as well. I think drafting a center in the 4th or 5th round is an absolute must.

I totally agree with this assessment> Run the hell outa the ball and stop the run. My best case scenario is Danny Shelton at 12 and La'ell Collins at 19 while moving Schwartz inside to right guard replacing journeyman Greco. That would be a great o-line for our 2 sophomore backs to each gain 1,000 yds. ala mack and byner in the day!

No problem with the assessment... but not sure moving Greco out in favor of Schwartz is the correct call.. I think Greco's play last year was underrated...

Regardless having Greco or Schwartz as your 6th best lineman would be a good thing

Welcome to the board, but I think Grecco is fare superior to Schwartz.

I second that.

I don't dislike Schwartz, but he's easily our weakest offensive lineman and his pass protection always makes me hold my breath.

I dunno why you guys be hating on Greco like that.

Dude was killin it last year. Schwartz? I'll admit I didn't think too highly of his play in 2013, but last year dude improved a lot.

If all we got to complain about is Schwartz, then we are in a good place with our OL.

we need playmakers guys. Our line is straight.

Swish I tend to agree. We need OL depth which you don't have to draft in the first round. I know you just don't replace an Alex Mack or a Joe Thomas if they get hurt, but you can't go from great to horrible with one injury....

OL is very important, but I think we're stronger than most there. I am a proponent of the theory called GHOST ... Guys wHo Often Score Touchdowns . We need playmakers; a couple guys that can score from anywhere on the field, whether from the LOS, or by returning punts and kickoffs. I love 11 play, 80 yard drives, but they are very difficult to maintain consistently, too often stalling and resulting in a punt or FG attempt. It would charge up the team on both sides of the ball if we had a home run threat; a WR who could catch a short slant-in and take it the distance (White), or if we had a RB who could go coast-to-coast any time he touched the ball (Gordon), or a great return guy (Agholor). It would also electrify the crowd at home games, encouraging them to be more vocal throughout the game, a factor when opponents had the ball, like the old days at Muni Stadium.

If we can land Kevin White or Amari Cooper at #12 then I'm all for adding a playmaker. If they're both gone I think we need to improve in the trenches before anything else. Keep in mind our quarterback situation, even with Bowe, Hartline, Hawkins and Cooper/White there isn't any guarantee that either of our current QB's can get them the ball on a regular basis. I stand by the theory that our BEST chance at winning ball games in 2015 is if we have an A+ running game, and an A+ defense thus meaning we need to upgrade in the trenches.

I don't disagree at all that we need play makers, we do need at least one more WR and a solid pass catching TE somewhere in the draft. I just think in the long run, drafting Danny Shelton at #12 and then drafting Ereck Flowers or another OT at #19 would benefit us more. If we're in the thick of a playoff race come late November and December WE HAVE to be able to run the football and WE HAVE to be able to stop the run.

I respect your opinion, but solidifying our trenches is more important than adding another wide receiver. With an elite offensive line, and an elite defense, we can get by with Bowe, Hartline, Hawkins and Gabriel at wide-receiver. We could still add someone like Stefan Diggs or Philip Doresett in the 3rd round possibly. Those guys have the burner speed, they'll just need some coaching and a little seasoning first as they're not likely to be nearly as polished and NFL ready as Cooper/White.

I agree but I view DL as a much higher priority than OL.

I can handle missing out on, or even passing on, any of the 3 elite WR options as long as 1) we use those picks to reinforce the trenches (especially the DL) and 2) we get one of the 2nd tier WR. I like Agholor because he also addresses our need for a kick/punt returner. Take him and either Conley or Goodley later, and I'm happy. (at least with the WR position.)

It needs to be.. we were awful against the run last year, IMO we win the first Balt game and the Indy game with a better DLine.

I think getting healthy and another year in the system will help our D-Line more than any draft pick (at least for the first half of the season while a rook would be getting acclimated to the NFL). Plus, I feel like all the D-Line prospects have warts. I like Shelton the most, but he's strictly a plugger to me. Could be a Casey Hampton type player. Definitely, valuable, but I think he might actually slip a bit farther in the draft than expected. If Cooper and White are gone, but Parker is still there, I wouldn't mind trading down with Miami who could use a Mike Wallace replacement say for their 1st rounder and a second next year. I wouldn't hate just taking Parker, but I'm not completely sold on him.

I don't think Schwartz is as bad as some people make him out to be, but I feel like players will be available who will be more of an upgrade for him than we would get on the D-Line. Also this is his last year under contract, so depending on his contract demands we might need a replacement next year anyways. I'd prefer to get someone now so they'll have a year under their belt. There are some good looking prospects on the O-line this year.

Everyone believes we are in desparate need of DL. I disagree. At one point last year, we only had 1 of our top 5 DL playing and only suited up 4. Our DL was severely hampered last year do to injuries.

I think that Rhubin isnt ideally suited for NT. They should of left PT there, but he was also injured half the time.

I do think we should invest in a NT with one of our first rounders.

This is a really good discussion. There are varied opinions, but they are all based in logic.

I wish I could add more, but I just don't know about this particular draft at this point in time to contribute much. I did enjoy reading all the posts that followed mine, though.

Good stuff.

how do you feel about our starters right now?

i get the depth part. good forbid another mack situation happens again this year.

but with all our other holes on team, does it really make sense to burn a first on a guy who's gonna ride the bench unless injuries happen?

I am not as big of a fan of Schwartz as most people are. I don't think he is terrible, but I think we give him a ton of help w/our TEs, RBs, and even WRs. Many people don't pick up on that, but I have seen it.

We even roll our area blocking in that direction. Grecco often chips Schwartz's man on his way to the second level. That is normal in a ZBS. However, we then have the TE help Scwartz AFTER that. That is unusual.

Again, I am not saying he stinks, but I do think an upgrade there is reasonable, especially because his contract is up after this year. I believe I am right about that? Right?

Additionally, can you imagine having Schwartz at your 6th man? We could plug him in at either RG or RT. It would give us a lot of flexibility.

I am not making a HUGE STATEMENT here, like I did last year when I was adamant that we draft Teddy or like I was when I asked for the Browns to trade down in the TRich/Weeden draft or like I was when I wanted Joe T to be our guy..............but, I don't think it would be a bad move at all to upgrade the OL at #19.

I think I am in more agreement with my counterpoint, that we need skill position players to compliment an acceptable offensive line.

Would a great OL be helpful, yes. Would it be a better than a QB? Probably not.

The loss of Mack probably cost the Browns 4 to 6 points a game. Look at the scoring average before, and after, there was a clear drop off.

If I believe Mack is overrated, and Thomas is really great at neutralizing defensive pass rushers, and beyond that, that everyone is situational, or roational.

Elite? , I'd say pretty good, but Definetly beyond the top 5 there's room for improvement. A lot of room to improve the depth.

This is really what it comes down to. We've invested 2 first round picks in the line, 2 high second round picks and John Greco is a good guard and a 3rd round pick. It'd be hard to invest anymore into the line.

In what way is Mack overrated? His value shined brightly by virtue of his absence. Why do you feel that he is overrated?

Which teams do you feel have better Guards than we do?

What RT do you think are better than Schwartz. I would opine that he is probably a middle of the pack to slightly above average RT, maybe betwen 13-16 or so in the NFL.

What teams do you feel have a better (when healthy) OL than the Browns do? (starting 5)

I acknowledge that our defensive line was absolutely destroyed last year with constant injuries, which in my opinion is a good reason to DRAFT players to the position. We need quality depth, and there is no guarantee that in 2015 everyone stays healthy. Phil Taylor, while talented and disruptive when healthy is almost NEVER healthy. There is absolutely no reason to expect him to stay healthy in 2015 given his recent track record, plus it's his contract year. Malcolm Brown, Danny Shelton or even Arik Armstead I think are must-draft's in the first round this year at either #12 or #19. Getting healthy and adding Randy Starks doesn't guarantee we'll suddenly be able to stop the run.

Just my opinion.

I am a believer in BPA and the way this draft is taking form, Scherff will likely be my top rated prospect still on board when we draft. it isnt our biggest need and its taking a guard. I think there will be teams wanting to trade up here and I would not be opposed to moving back into the 20s and ending up with a Maxx Williams and a Dorial Green-Beckham with our 2 first picks.

If my receivers are off the board and I cant move back, you turn in the card with Scherff and you add another probowl guard to your stud offensive line.

Schwartz as backup. Upgrade RT. How late a round? Noticedd some linemen are being released. Liability in my opinion.

There are no guarantees. I do think its important that we use a high draft pick on a NT that eats up the middle.

As for the OL, I do agree that we need to get a quality Olineman in this draft. Whether he gets plugged in as a starter or not. We need to draft 1 if not 2 OL to develop. We have absolutely no depth here.

Regardless of what ppl think of Schwartz, he's not injury prone and has provent that he can start in this league. He may not be the greates but he's definitely not the worst.

Why does everyone that's a Free Agent want to go to the West Coast?

Schwartz and Mack played at Cal, Cameron at USC. Weather/ Lifestyle is definitely different on the left coast.

Because nobody wants to live and work in Cleveland...right?

It is a nice place to live with beautiful weather year round.