DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season The NFL Draft 2015 Browns have real interest in moving up for Mariota

I don't think many posters would risk their dream job on McCown and Manziel either.

Come January, they will probably need to sell Haslam on the future. And that starts with QB. This same QB situation? That isn't going to work. Haslam is not buying that future.

Farmer needs a solid QB prospect on the roster. A groomed QB that is ready to win, in 2016. I don't know if Mariota is the guy, but he needs a guy to sell. And he needs the guy to be ready to play.

If McCown/Manziel flop this year, he better have a believable answer at QB.

The last time a FO drafted a QB because they feared for their jobs, we ended up with Weeden.

Put me on record as NOT wanting MM, unless he slides to 12, which I highly doubt. We cannot ransom our draft for another read option guy.
We need a WR,DT & LB.
If we do get a first class WR, I still have no idea who is going to throw to him.

The one thing that has me thinking we are not actually high on Mariotta is that it was reported we weren't bringing him in for a visit.

Now on the one hand, I know O'Connell has spent time with him. But if I'm Pettine, I'm the head man, and I want my own time with him.

Or maybe he's spent time with him. I don't know. Maybe it's a smoke screen, but I think it would be risky to rely mostly on O'Connell. And not bringing him in for a visit kind of seems that way.

telling yall, the only one worth even a consideration for giving up both our 1st is Winston.

Bone, I think you are a great poster and you are one of the guys I really respect on here, so please don't be offended by the upcoming comment.

There have been thousands of QBs more pro-ready than Mariotta. Thousands.

Not calling the plays, not really knowing how to huddle, making only one read, not learning how to make all the drops, etc are HUGE concerns.

I ain't trying to bash you, bro. But man, I think you invested in this guy and you aren't going to back down from it now that you made such a strong case, but man, I really think you are off on this one.

You and I were the first two guys to talk about Luck. We did it before most even heard of him. I respect your opinion and am NOT saying you don't know QBs, but man, look at some of the evidence and then look at the differences between the collegiate and professional games.

Hope you are not mad.

I'd have to double check but I am pretty sure that we didn't draft a single player that we brought in for an interview last year. I am also pretty sure that that makes it true for 2 consecutive years.

For the record, I wouldn't trade up for Mariota or Winston. Not sure that I would take either even if they fell to #12.

That's just not true though. People who've watched extensive film on him say the opposite. Louis Riddick, Josh Norris, Cian Fahey. Even Daniel Jeremiah, someone who's been pretty critical of Mariota, says he goes through his reads, scans the entire field, left to right. Also, from everything i've read, he is learning to make all the drops. Why do you think that he's not learning?

Calling plays and huddling is far down on the list of things i'm worried about. He looks off defenders (a lot), goes through his progression, good accuracy on short/intermediate, great decision maker, quick processing speed, better pocket awareness than people give him credit for. These are translatable skills.

DJ's podcast is worth a listen. Marcus Mariota 360

At the end of the day, this stuff probably doesn't mean anything. We're not getting Mariota. Yesterday, Ruston Webster basically said that they're not trading out of the top 10.

No doubt....the thing that bothers me the most about MM is the offense had HUGE windows for him to throw to and he still missed people and at times badly. The problem NFL teams have now days is that most of these QBs are one read and run guys. The traditional pro style guy is a rarity now days. Some guys like Newton or Wilson get it, but a ton of others bust out.....would be real interesting to see if the QB bust rate has increased since the Genesis of the spread offense in CFB.

DC does he a point though. Over the next draft or two, these guys are going to have to go all in on a guy. I understand that Johnny could still pan out or they could hit the jackpot on a guy like Petty (my guy), but the odds of that aren't high.

I don't want any part of Mariota, but I also wanted nothing to do with Newton for many of the same reasons. If these guys are comfortable going all in with him fine, but when/if he busts they all need fired.....can't miss on two 1st round QBs to the tune of 3+ 1sts and more invested.

I really hope they are smarter than I currently give them credit for no matter what they decide to do.

I know it won't be interpreted this way .. but.. Two picks would be traded to get "1". The Browns would still have 9 picks in 7 rounds. What little "History" Farmer has is to "Wheel and Deal," no reasonable offer refused, offers made, counter offers listened to.

I expect the Browns to pick up 6 players with the 10 picks, the other 4 picks being used to move up for who they want. Will one of picks be Mariota ?

After last year.. I think people will be calling Farmer, trying to trade down to sweeten their draft, rather than Farmer having to make the calls. It will be interesting to see it play out.

Good point. The future may be now. With him; without. Not sure which is more depressing.

If it's not true, than Mariota is lying about himself. He said those things.

I'm not worried about huddling.

Running that high-tempo offense is good experience. Especially with his low INT-ratio, he isn't raddled by the tempo. I can't imagine that slowing down and huddling is going to be difficult, whereas I have seen many Browns QBs struggle with no-huddle and hurry-up.

In the end, whatever you may think of our FO, they have way more info than any of us, have a staff of scouts, and are going over their options full time at this time of the year. I trust they will make better decisions than I would make.

That's basically the way I look at it. They have the vision, the "Plan", and I expect that they will execute it appropriately (whether I'm in agreement or not ). Whether or not we get Mariota, I'm on board...

When exactly did Mariota say that he only made one read? I have not heard him say that.

He said that he's learning drop backs, under center, huddling, been focusing on it since working with O'Connell. He was confident that he would be able to learn them. You think these two things are huge concerns but Whisenhunt and Koetter, coaches who've done a couple private workouts, were impressed with his improvement in those areas. Especially Koetter. Yes, he needs to learn drop backs/under center/huddling but it doesn't seem as high on the list of things that coaches worry about, that fans worry about.

What!?! This can not be true.

Any time you draft a QB who hasn't fully developed the skills needed in a pro style O, the higher the risk. You're taking the gamble that he can adapt and learn all of these things without seeing any evidence of it.

It's really quite that simple. Now that doesn't mean MM can't or won't adapt and learn those skills. What it does mean is you haven't witnessed any evidence of it and you're taking a gamble that he can accomplish this.

Jester, after reading your statement regarding the Browns not picking any of their pre-draft visits, I had to do a quick look around.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/04/cleveland_browns_pre-draft_wor.html
So in 2013, we did bring in Mingo for a visit and private workout.

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2014/4/26/5...sts-3rd-edition
Looks like last year, we brought in Pierre Desir and Manziel. Didn’t draft but signed later: Connor Shaw and Kiero Small.

The following is something I found very interesting. If you want to read the whole thing just skim to the section entitled, Meaningless Meetings.
http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/46718240/

Leading up to the 2013 draft, “…of the 495 pre-draft visits, only 33 resulted in the prospect getting drafted by the team he visited. That’s a 6.7-percent hit rate connecting a player to a team. To put it another way: If a prospect visits your favorite team, he will NOT be drafted by that team almost 19 times out of 20.”

Thanks for making me think Jester.

Man I really wished I liked Mariotta more. This would be the perfect draft to move up to get that "elite" QB. The depth of the 1st round is seriously questionable, and trading two 1sts for a stud would be awesome. The problem is I'm just not sold on him. He could be great no doubt, but I share a lot of the concerns Vers mentioned.......not to mention that I disagree with the assessment that he is an accurate QB. He misses guys badly at times who are running with absolutely no one around them fro 10 yards.

I'll understand the strategy if they do move up to get him, but man I hope they are right because another developmental one read and run guy makes me nervous.

Thanks for doing the research V.

We might have been sitting in the catbird seat if they hadn't neglected the WR position over the last 3 years. As it is, If you want to go up and draft Mariota this year then you should have talked yourself out of grabbing Manziel last year.
Bl. AFC North teams, besides this one, don't rolodex Qbs.

looks like a pretty good chance to get one of these Wr's to fall to your pick, and you could help yourself out for (unknown amount of time) to come.

I believe are two firsts and a 3rd gets us the second draft pick

More like three first rounders.

This is definitely true. There is the risk that he won't "get it."

But Mariota is low-risk in some other areas. Character, intelligence, ethic, size, mobility. Also, his INT ratio was insanely good. Especially considering their tempo and the number of injuries to the Ducks' WRs. Those 2 usually cause more mistakes and miscues.

He has some great tools for a run-first, ball-control offense. A frame to hold up in the AFC North (ahem, Manziel). But, I agree. We don't know if he's Tebow when its time to make a tough throw.

Tebow could never throw like Mariota. Ever. His mechanics were jacked.

Although I agree with most of your post (and share your concerns about MM), I do think their job is on the line regardless over the next two years. If they draft MM they get this year and the next to begin winning. If they stay with Johnny they get this year and the next to begin winning.....McCown doesn't count because he is only here to mentor or start if Johnny/new QB wet the bed. No matter who the starter is these guys have 2 years to turn this around at least somewhat. I mean they did invest a 1st/3rd rounder combo for JM already so technically "their" guy is already on the clock.

I'm not a fan of MM, but if they think he's the guy going forward and JM can't be that guy then their job security mandates that they make the move, because again no matter the name or the investment these guys have a calendar year and a half to get the QB position solved or they are toast regardless.

Again I say I really hope they get it right...whatever right is.

Why would you trust this FO to make the right decision about a QB? They sure botched it last year. And it is NO secret that were plenty of guys like me who would have drafted Teddy over Johnny.

Not sure where you are getting your confidence from other than blind homerism.

I get what you're saying about the investment. A trade like that can define the GM. But it depends on the GM/Franchise.

If I pretend I'm a successful GM or a GM on an established franchise, that's easy. No. I don't risk it. I won't let 1 trade screw up my team & reputation.

But Farmer isn't that GM and the Browns aren't that franchise. If I pretend my job is GM of the Browns, I must fix things. I have to turn it around. And I don't have much time. History shows I have 2-3 years to fix it. If I don't, I'm fired and I won't land another GM shot. I don't have faith that Manziel/McCown fix it. I need a serious backup plan. If I'm lucky enough to see 2016, I want the guy groomed and ready. I don't want to be in a position where I need to find a rookie in the 2016 draft and play him immediately. And I don't want to tell Haslam that is my plan.

As GM my goal for this draft is to improve the QB. I don't need to be 99.9% sure he is THE GUY. I just want a better option. I ain't going down with Johnny Football.

1) I said I trust them to do better than I would, I said nothing specifically about QB. I was never a fan of Manziel, but I have said repeatedly that 1 year is not enough to get a fair gauge of this FO. That you are judging them harshly for their mistakes is not my fault or business.

2) I can't recall anything I have said to you that warrants you insulting me. In my month and 1/2 on this board I have seen you repeatedly say insulting things to other posters, but I assumed you have some history with them of which I am unaware, and frankly is none of my business. But now you have accused me of "blind homerism" when I cannot recall any exchange between you and I heretofore which has been anything but cordial and respectful.

Did Chip Kelly push Browns toward Marcus Mariota?
Phil Sheridan, ESPN Philadelphia Eagles reporter


PHILADELPHIA – The Marcus Mariota saga could take a pretty ironic twist, one that would leave Philadelphia Eagles fans wondering “what if” for a long time.

Connect the dots. The Cleveland Browns talked with the St. Louis Rams about trading for quarterback Sam Bradford. The Browns were offering draft picks. The Rams preferred to get another quarterback in the deal. The Eagles, who initially didn’t want to trade Nick Foles, finally gave in and swapped Foles plus draft picks for Bradford.


After that deal was completed, Chip Kelly got a call. He was offered a first-round pick for Bradford, the quarterback he just acquired. Kelly wouldn’t confirm that the offer came from Cleveland, but it seems pretty obvious. The Browns tried to get Bradford for a first-round pick. When Bradford was suddenly the property of another team, they simply called and made the same offer.

The Eagles said no to that offer. So now, a month later, comes word (from ProFootallTalk.com) that the Browns are looking to package their two first-round picks in a trade to move up in the draft. Their target: Oregon quarterback Mariota.

That means the Eagles could have pre-empted the Browns’ interest in Mariota by sending them Bradford. That would have given the Eagles two first-round picks and put them in the position the Browns are in now. Two first-round picks would be an attractive starting point for enticing the Tennessee Titans to part with the second pick in the draft.

It is possible that Kelly has Bradford rated higher as an NFL prospect than Mariota. That is not information that Kelly would part with voluntarily, and he just might spin it depending on the situation. If he goes into the season with Bradford as his No. 1 quarterback then Kelly has plenty of incentive to say Bradford is his highest-rated player.

Clearly, the Browns saw Bradford as the more attractive possibility. They tried repeatedly, and aggressively, to land the former No. 1 overall draft choice. The Eagles were in position to make that happen, removing the Browns from the Mariota chase and giving themselves a leg up.

This whole thing has certainly been interesting. With three weeks until the draft, expect the plot to keep getting thicker.

Linky Thing

How did I insult you?

I simply disagreed w/your take on why you have confidence on this particular FO and stated that I preferred Teddy over JM last year.

What's the big deal?

The "blind homerism" comment offended you? Sorry. I did not intend that as an insult. I just didn't see the logic in why we should trust this FO in regards to moving up or not for MM. I feel this way because of their actions from last year when they totally blew it.

I apologize if I hurt your feelings and I have no problem w/you. I just did not agree w/your earlier statement.

I accept your apology. I have no problem disagreeing with anyone. Everyone has their own opinion and there will always be differences. I don't think making condescending comments has a place in rational discussion.

The drafting of Manziel was a mistake in both of our opinions. You wanted Bridgewater, Carr was my guy. Frankly I rated both, along with Bortles and Garappolo ahead of Manziel. That said, Farmer was a 1st year GM, something like 2-3 months on the job, and not yet on solid footing in his job. It was public knowledge that his boss badly wanted JM. It is debatable whether Haslam insisted, I think he did. We may never know for sure. Either way, I think Farmer drafted Manziel to please his boss. A rookie mistake. I have made enough mistakes in my life, and have been able to recover from them, that I am willing to allow anyone room for error.

This FO has made, on the whole, more good moves than bad. The bad moves are pretty glaring. The team is better now than it was when the team of Farmer & Pettine took over. There are still problems, chief among them that they have not yet solved the QB situation. Clearly they swung and missed with Manziel. That said, the curtain has not yet closed on this play, and although it looks bleak, there is still a chance for at least partial redemption.

As for making a move for Mariota, I have come around to accepting that move if they make it, as long as they don't cripple future drafts like Washington did to get RG3. Is that a gamble? Absolutely, but it is a safer gamble than Manziel was.

My opinion, which your's differs from, is that they have more and better information than I, that they have a better understanding of how the team is taking shape and how the various different players will fit into that team. I also allow that they can learn from their past mistakes and make better decisions going forward. If that is homerism, then I wear that. I think it is just humanism.