DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season The NFL Draft 2015 Browns have real interest in moving up for Mariota

I can go along with that. The more/longer you've done it, the better at it you are.

I don't study the college game so I can't reply to that statement.

However, I would guess that qb's that, in college, didn't have to read after the snap would be at a disadvantage in year 1 in the NFL. Maybe even year 2.

But I still happen to think post snap reads are coachable for many/most qb's. Yes, it's a fast game, yes, you don't have 10 seconds to process the post snap reads......but with a qb with intelligence and diligence in the film room, I still would imagine it's a coachable part of the game - granted, again, those that have been or were doing it in college have an advantage.

Does that help? [/quote]

That's why I would rather take a pro style QB, a guy like Sean Mannion, who has actually called plays, played under Center, and read a defense. Plus, he can be had a little later int he draft that the "big guys", minimizing his risk. Further, he has all of the top qualities teams look for in a QB, except for any real running ability at all .... but he seems to understand how to move in the pocket.

I think that Mannion is worth the risk, and more worth the risk than many guys who have never done so many of the things a pro QB will have to do. His biggest criticism seems to be that he lost his best weapon, and his performance diminished as a result.

You can be taught how to drive. You can be taught every nuance of every maneuver and you can practice driving for years and years.

Then one day there's a high speed pile-up. Cars are spinning around you going every which way. With all your education and training to back you up can you, within a 2-second time span, see and anticipate how it's all unfolding, where each car is going, well enough to make the right split-second decisions to avoid getting caught up in the accident or to at least put yourself in the safest position resulting in the least damage?

All your training could not teach you exactly how to react, in 2-seconds, to the unexpected that's unfolding right in front of you in real-time.

'Why mortgage the future for Marcus Mariota?: Hey Mary Kay!'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/04/why_mortgage_the_future_for_ma.html

By Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group on April 19, 2015 at 3:25 PM, updated April 19, 2015 at 5:58 PM

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Send your questions for Hey Mary Kay! here.

Hey, Mary Kay: I have been an avid Browns fan since the days of Jim Brown. I cannot understand the current sentiment being professed by you (and others) to make a trade to draft Marcus Mariota. The current team has too many needs to give away two first round picks this year (and maybe next year's first or second round pick) to take a chance on another QB prospect. I would much rather see two first round picks used this year to draft players who would be much more likely to play this year and actually improve the team. Tim Couch, Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden and Johnny Manziel all played poorly after being drafted to be the "franchise QB." Had the supporting casts been above average it seems possible that one or more of them may have been successful. Drafting so called franchise quarterbacks has not worked. Why don't you promote the idea that using first round draft picks to build the team around the QB makes the most sense?

Giving up the house didn't work for Washington and they are still dearly paying for that decision. What makes anyone think that giving up two first round picks, and then some, is a wise move for the Browns? With two first round picks and a high second round pick in the upcoming draft, the Browns can potentially find three quality starting players. That could make a huge difference on the field this year. Why not give Josh McCown a chance to show what he can do with a solid supporting cast around him?

- Tom S., Columbus, Ohio

Hey Tom -- A strong case can be made for drafting two quality starters and continuing to build the team. But if the Browns have a chance to draft one of the premier quarterbacks in the draft, I think they should do it. Yes, they drafted Quinn, Weeden and Manziel in the first round in recent years, but they haven't drafted a top five or top 10 quarterback since 1999 -- 16 years ago! The Browns haven't taken a chance on one of the best quarterbacks in the draft since Tim Couch -- and I would argue that Couch would have been a successful, winning quarterback if he had any semblance of a supporting cast. He had nothing. Yes, I do think two first-round picks -- or even three -- is a lot to give up, but if you're going to take a risk in the first round, why not take it on a quarterback that can change the fortunes of the franchise? When you look at some of the other first-round picks over the years, where have they gotten the Browns? Nowhere. Very few positions can transform your team, and none more than quarterback. Mariota is a projection, but a gamble worth taking.

Hey, Mary Kay: Is it possible that the Browns could trade for Sam Bradford and discover it really wasn't a quarterback problem that needed to be
fixed?

-- Mark Linton, Geneseo, N.Y.

Hey Mark: I believe that if the Browns acquire a good quarterback, or if Josh McCown can revert to his 2013 form, they will discover that a very good quarterback does make a huge difference. I think if they plugged in a Bradford, or a Philip Rivers or another top-notch quarterback, they would quickly discover that it was the missing link all along. They already have a solid defense and a good running game. If they can upgrade the quarterback position, they will start to win consistently and contend for the playoffs. As for Bradford, two reports (from Sports Illustrated's Peter King and NJ.com's Mark Eckel) quote sources saying that Bradford doesn't want to sign a long-term extension with the Browns, so it might be a moot point. I actually think that Bradford would be quite impressed with new offensive coordinator John DeFilippo and quarterbacks coach Kevin O'Connell, whom several people in the league have told me is going to be an amazing NFL coach.

Hey, Mary Kay: From what I read, Josh Hamilton will not face punishment from MLB for falling off the wagon. Josh Gordon, on the other hand, gets essentially equivalent of a year in NFL prison. (Hyperbole intended.) Why no outrage from fans everywhere?

-- Jay Falls, Kent, Ohio

Hey Jay: It's two different sports with two sets of rules and they can't be compared. I was shocked and dismayed that the arbitrator ruled that Josh Hamilton didn't violate his treatment program. If Hamilton himself reported the relapse, he violated his program. The arbitrator did Hamilton no favors by letting him off the hook, and baseball will probably revamp its drug program next year in the new collective bargaining agreement. As for Josh Gordon, maybe the minimum year-long ban will be the turning point for him and he'll resume his Pro Bowl career.

Hey, Mary Kay: Will the Browns run an offense that fits Johnny Manziel's skills or will Manziel have to adjust?

-- Leroy Lamb, Franklin, Ohio

Hey Leroy: It will be a little bit of both. Manziel will be required to operate from within the structure of the pocket, read defenses and make plays with his arm in John DeFilippo's scheme. He'll run the play-action, run-oriented offense just like the other quarterbacks will. But "Flip'' and O'Connell, a mobile former NFL quarterback himself, will also utilize Manziel's running ability and incorporate elements of his college game into the offense. Flip did it with Terrelle Pryor in Oakland and knows how to work with a running QB.

Hey, Mary Kay: How come the Browns don't ever consider Bernie Kosar in some kind of a role? It doesn't seem fair that Jim Brown is employed and seems to never do anything! Josh Gordon, Johnny Manziel and Justin Gilbert are examples of that. Please let me know. Thank you!

-- Russell Miner, Struthers, Ohio

Hey Russell: I don't see it happening. Coaches hire their own longtime associates with whom they feel comfortable. Besides, Kosar recently lit into the Browns' front office, specifically owner Jimmy Haslam. While Kosar has a brilliant offensive mind and could help any young quarterback, the climate is not right at this time. Brown, on the other hand, has developed a very close relationship with Haslam, and is both a confidante and advisor to him.

Hey, Mary Kay: Everyone seems to think that our first round needs to be a home run, but why don't we instead draft a tackle on both sides of the ball.

-- Chris Howell, Elyria, Ohio

Hey Chris: A strong case can be made for doing just that. If you're not going to draft a quarterback, it's good form to either tab someone to protect him or to disrupt the opposing QB. I think the Browns can certainly do worse than landing a premier offensive lineman and a pass-rushing defender.

Hey, Mary Kay: In your opinion who will make the biggest improvement from the players on last year's roster.

-- Allan Cooper, Canandaigua, N.Y.

Hey Allan: If Johnny Manziel can adhere to his aftercare program, I think he'll make a biggest leap. If he can stay clean and sober after 10 weeks of rehab, I think he'll make tremendous strides on the football field. I also think that Flip and O'Connell will have a great effect on him. He's got a great support system around him, and all the tools he needs to stay straight. I think it will be hard and will require daily work. But if he can do it, the Browns might have a decent quarterback on their hands.

Hey, Mary Kay: Will the Browns just stand pat, make the two first round picks and not try to reinvent the wheel? Can we,this year, do away with all the draft day
surprises that turn out to be busts and just make good, solid picks?

- Kevin Jackson, Aiken, S.C.

Hey Kevin: I am in favor of the Browns trying to trade of Marcus Mariota, but if they don't, they'll have a chance to land an excellent nosetackle such as Danny Shelton and a premier receiver such as DeVante Parker. That would give them two immediate starters and something great for each side of the ball. Standing pat is fine, as long as they have not shot to land one of the best quarterbacks in the draft.



(end)

I don't compare our situation with Washington.

Obviously the injury factor hurt, but what hurt more in my opinion was the 36 million cap penalty the Redskins were given after the trade..

They couldn't add anyone, and the team suffered.

We are not in that shape, overall our roster is solid. And we still have great cap room.

And if it ends up being 3 1sts, that's still only 3 picks out of a possible 17 in the next two years you're giving up..

It's not as if we give up the right to add more players to the team just because we make that kind of trade.

j/c

Take it for what it's worth....

Report: Browns The “Front Runners” To Trade Up For Marcus Mariota

Tony Pauline of DraftInsider.net is hearing that the Browns are the “front runners” and also the team working the hardest to trade up for Oregon QB Marcus Mariota.

Sources tell Pauline that the Titans’ asking price for the No. 2 overall pick would require the Browns to part with their two first-round picks as well as their choice in the second round selection.

However, Cleveland reportedly is not willing to give up that much in return for Mariota.

Instead, the Browns would be willing to part with their two first-round picks for Maroita, but prefer to keep their second-round selection, as they’re hoping to add a receiver.

Majority of the buzz surrounding Mariota has involved the Chargers trading up for him in a package deal that would send Philip Rivers to Tennessee. Although, there are likely other teams in the mix as well such as the Jets, Rams and Eagles.

The Browns have made it clear that they will consider all options at quarterback, even after they used a first-round pick on Johnny Manziel last year and signed veteran QB Josh McCown to a three-year deal.

The consensus view still appears to be that the Buccaneers will take Florida State QB Jameis Winston with the No. 2 overall pick, which leaves the Titans in a position to auction off the rights to Mariota.

We’ll have more updates regarding the Browns their draft plans as the news is available.

http://nfltraderumors.co/report-browns-the-front-runners-to-trade-up-for-marcus-mariota/

At least it's not 3 1sts?

Hold strong for the two firsts only. There aren't many that are willing/able to beat that package.

Honestly, if that's all it took to take a gamble on Mariota, and I think by now my professed love of Grayson aside, I'd take that gamble.

That being said, I'd also probably take Leonard Williams at 2. But, what do I know?

I am all for trading up for Mariota if it only costs us picks in this year's draft.

If we trade up for Mariota..

He has to start right away.. It's the only way it makes sense..

This is really the key. There are a few talents in the draft that really worth their 1st round grade this year. If Tennessee is willing to part with their pick for two lower 1st rounders, Absolutely I do that deal. I'd hesitate on giving up a 2nd rounder, because I think that is where the value is in this draft, but otherwise, go for it.

How so?

Why spend 2 1sts and a 2nd on a QB for him to sit for a year..

When you can get one in the 3rd round?

I only want Mariota if they think he can be successful from the start.. he's the guy.. All the reps..

I think it would be better to wait until 2016, when it would be a much better selection at QB. If we could trade off the #19 for somebody's #1 next yr. all the better. I think to trade 3 picks this yr. for a maybe it to much risk. However if RF and MP feel like he's worth it then I guess you do what you have to do. But, if they don't want to give up a #2 as well this yr. then whats that say about how they feel about MM? To much chance?

Players with Mariota's ability are not available in the third round.


(Please don't say Brett Hundley.)

I honestly don't see much difference between Mariota and Petty if you're going to sit them both for a year..

Honestly, my biggest fear about trading for Mariota is Chip Kelly. Chip knows his ceiling and can tailor the offense to him. He knows more about Mariota than any of us. More than Farmer.

So how do we beat him, if wants in?

If Chip thinks Mariota is worth "X" in a trade, Chip will offer X. He's going to set the bar. The only way we get the trade is to offer more than the guy that knows the most.

The Eagles can't offer more than us. Period.

Also, Mariota only played for Kelly one year.

If that's what you believe, then there is no convincing you.

Is Mariota a better prospect? Probably..

But why though?

They both played in spread offenses. Both put up big numbers. Both are smart, good kids.

I'm not saying Petty should be a 1st rounder, or that Mariota shouldn't.. I've just never really known what the difference between the two is that separated them this much..

Neither Mariota nor Petty is ready to play in the NFL right now. Mariota is a more advanced prospect and it's not close.

Agreed and agreed. Fair point about the 1 year.

I'm not concerned about them offering more than we do.
I'm concerned about us offering more than Chip does.

While I do share that concern, somewhat, I will say, IMO this FO and staff have implied from day one that a player, a position or whatever carries a certain value to them and they will pay up to that value.

This is not to say they are right, wrong or indifferent just that they stayed true to their thinking, it obviously has costs us some players but I also think it got us some decent FA deals / players.

You are making stuff up.

There are no "periods." There are no "it's not close" comparisons. That is just you and your opinion stating such things.

I would not use the 12th pick on Mariota. I would not use the 19th pick on Mariota.

There is no way in the world would I trade both and a second for Mariota.

No facts, just my opinion.

If you believe there is a QB good enough to trade two first round picks for, and you have two first round picks (and no QB), you make the trade.

And this FO has also blew their first go-around on choosing a QB. Their second and third moves in regards to signing McCown for a fairly substantial contract and not keeping Hoyer are questionable.

But yeah, let's trust them this time?

I may be completely off but everything i am hearing on the Titans and that #2 is that they are deciding between the Jets and the Chargers offers. thats not saying the Browns may make a late push but its really sounding like a 2 team race at this point.

I might take him with one of the two picks, but I agree, no way I trade 2 picks for the guy. That imo would be idiotic.

The way I see it is... if he's there at 12,you consider it. If he's there at 19,you seriously consider it. If not, you focus on someone/something else. I'm hoping they pass on any and all scenarios, most especially the rumors involving bundling our first round picks and etc to get him. I wouldn't be overly upset if we burned a single first rounder on him, especially if it's #19.

If we're judging Johnny as a rookie, then they blew it with Gilbert, too.

Going with position players doesn't make #12 and #19 automatic slam dunks. Our 1st rounders have bombed for 15 years. Joe, Haden, Mack are the exceptions. Still, no winning with those guys. And they are all Max Contracts. Mack, possibly gone anyway. We are essentially at top dollar free agency with the only 1st rounders we've hit on.

We just as easily might be passing a franchise QB for another William Green and Mingo.

Petty's completion percentage under pressure was about 20%, so he is suspect at best as an NFL quarterback. I believe the asking price for Mariota will end up being 12-19 and a 3rd or 4th rounder. If Kevin O'Connell gives Farmer a positive review of Mariota I believe the deal to take him will be done.

I think you are correct Mill. It was reported yesterday that the Browns were willing to give up both 1st rounders, but the Titans were also asking for our 2nd rounder.....Browns said no. If we really want MM this gets done with us giving up next years 2nd rounder or a mid rounder as you suggested.

If I was more sold on MM I would be all over the trade. A weak draft like this one is the perfect time to make a move giving up picks for a stud QB......I just have real ???s about whether MM is going to be "the guy."

Mariota getting ready:

http://www.si.com/edge/2015/04/20/nfl-draft-training-qb-marcus-mariota