DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Johnny Manziel...the return...

How many years does it take developing a QB? Hoyer spent time in NE later replaced by Mallet. He went to Pittsburgh played half a season and released. Landed in Arizona a team needing a QB and released.

He comes to Cleveland starts out well. Why? My assessment talent around him complemented. As soon as talent was injured and you relied on Hoyer, his true colors showed.

Hoyer can succeed in this league, but he needs the right surroundings. Manziel was called upon to early. Given the same development time Hoyer received can Manziel be any better? Time will tell.

McCown will need even more complementary talent, but he was willing to take a backup roll. Hoyer still wants a chance to be the guy. Browns let him purse opportunities. At the same time, they can't sit on their hands waiting on Hoyer's decision. Hoyer could have signed with either the Jets or Bills. Now your thoughts on Farmer would be?

I remember last year when Pettine pretty much said he did not want his QBs liking each other and I think that was the case. My how times have changed in one year as they bring in a QB that wants to be the mentor for Johnny. I think Pettine learned his lesson as the team began to divide.

I don't think the team really divided per se...unless you're talking about Johnny on one side and the entire rest of the team on the other.

I think Joe thomas and most of the vets on O were all in for Hoyer but Johnny had most of the younger guys in his corner like Bitonio and I think at the end the defense was ready to hang Hoyer from the rafters especially after that Colts game.

Lets not forget, that while Johnny didn't give 100% effort last year, he was here, he was in meetings, he did practice. He is not coming in void of all knowledge. He just didn't apply it, and had distractions. That doesn't mean he didn't learn anything last year.

So let's hope that light comes on quickly, and he takes a leap forward this year so we can see what we truly have in him, and then can plan the future better from there.

That Colts game was hard to have witnessed. Defense did everything and then some to set us up with a victory. It sucks even remembering it and having memories.

j/c:



https://twitter.com/JFowlerESPN

The road to the Super Bowl started yesterday!!

/purple

All joking aside, pretty much all I want to hear and read about JF. Putting in the work and taking it seriously.

Even as much as I despise him, if he puts his best foot forward and gives it his all, cannot be but happy for him and even if he ends up not being the man for the job. I'd applaud him big time for the dedication and effort.

But he went to a basketball game in public before OTA's when he obviously should have been prepping. He will never get it.

Him hanging with Haden isn't the worst thing in the world either.

I like that Haden seems to be taking both Manziel and Gilbert under his wing.

+1 good role model

Agreed 100%. Happy birthday BTW YTown!

That Joe Haden, yep! Soon as I can make it to Dicks Sporting Goods to try on the new jerseys (with that Nike truefit or whatever), I'll be wearing Haden's special edition jersey with as much pride as I have when I got my Joe Thomas jersey on! Class-acts!

Haden also said that he's been hanging out with Josh Gordon.

Thank you.

Is that good or bad?

Both. If Gordon is to be believed, a person can test positive for weed by just hanging around people who are smoking weed.

having football stripped and seeing Haden and Gilbert preparing for the season with no chance of having his ban lifted for a year is a good thing for Gordon.

Honestly.

I don't care what's "Good for Gordon" anymore..

I'm not one that says we cut him, but I could care less if he ever plays for us ever again..

Since Haden isn't likely to be influenced by Gordon, I suspect it's probably a good thing. maybe it will help Gordon.

Spoken as if they came out of my own mouth. That dude is on whatever level or category beyond backburner.

Wasn't Haden on the plane with Gordon when he drank the alcohol that got him suspended for the year? Pretty sure I saw pics of them hanging out last year. Not to say Haden is not a good dude, but I don't think he's a saint either; besides not to long ago he had a suspension.

just hope he doesnt get some Purple drank by accident.

Josh McCown learning new offense, bonding with Johnny Manziel



Maybe JF will start to build a huge supporting staff, even from those competing to take the job he *hopefully* wants.

Ya know i hear Johnny wasn't prepared. I hear Shanny put in a new playbook. i would like to put something out the i haven't heard yet.. If anyone has ever seen the longest yard they would know. What if when Johnny got in the huddle his teammates smelled achohol on his breath. i'm just putting it out there i have no proof. Just a though.

Mary Kay Cabot @MaryKayCabot · 4h 4 hours ago
#Browns Haden said no one on the plane w/ Josh Gordon knew he was violating a rule. "We had no idea he couldn't drink.''

Not sure if anyone here is qualified to answer that but most know you at least need a player with the skill set to perform the job. Accuracy, arm strength those sorts of things.

Happy birthday, YTown! Celebrate some.

Joe Haden on his heart-to-heart with Johnny Manziel: 'There's something different with him'

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- When Johnny Manziel failed to show up at Joe Haden's house Monday around noon for their scheduled game of pool, Haden immediately called to see where he was.

Manziel didn't pick up right away, but called Haden back at 3 p.m. -- a full three hours after practice was over -- to explain where he was.

"He was like, 'No, I'm just leaving the facility now,''' Haden said after practice on Tuesday. "Yesterday was the first day, and he stayed about three hours after we had to leave when the time was done. Actions speak a lot louder than words. He has a lot to show the people, but he's trying his best. I think he's got his mind right, and he's just ready to get it going.''

When the two finally did connect that day, they had a heart-to-heart talk about some of the things Manziel has been through since spending 10 weeks in the Caron addiction treatment center in Pennsylvania.

"He's one of my good friends,'' said Haden. "We talk about real life things. I could just tell he's motivated. When I talked to him, I could tell there's something different with him."

Haden acknowledged it will be difficult for Manziel to work his program in the spotlight of the NFL, especially the fishbowl of Johnny Football's world.

"I'm not going to say he didn't put some of it on himself, but just being a grown man, I think between our conversations, I like where his mind's at and what course he's taken now,'' said Haden.

Haden, who's taken it upon himself to counsel the Browns' young and troubled players such as Manziel, Justin Gilbert and Johnny Manziel, plans to continue to be a positive role model for the young quarterback.

"We can just support him the best we can – support him and like he said he has a lot himself to prove,'' said Haden. "There's not a lot we can do. He has to show it. We're going to definitely have his back and support him, but he's going to have to come out here and do it – come out here, be on time, study and show this is important to him."

Haden said he definitely doesn't fall into the category of players who lost trust in Manziel last year. Left tackle Joe Thomas told ESPN Cleveland that it happened for a lot of players because of the way Manziel conducted himself when he was named the starter last year.

"I wasn't one of those guys,'' said Haden. "I've just got his back with whatever he needs to do. It was a really, really adult decision that he did. He felt like he needed help and he went and did it, and it's really personal for him, so I'm not really going to speak on it too much. I'm just glad Johnny's back.

Haden, who often had Manziel over to his house last year when Manziel was a rookie, counts the former No. 22 overall pick as one of his really good friends. In fact, he jumped to Manziel's defense in January after an anonymous teammate told ESPN that Manziel was a "100 percent joke.''

"It's good to see him back,'' said Haden. "He hit me up on my birthday (April 14th_ and we talked. He's just really happy to be back and seems really, really motivated.''

Asked if he still firmly believes Manziel can be a a successful NFL quarterback, Haden said, "1,000 percent.''

What makes him think so, considering Manziel struggled in his six quarters as a starter, managing just five first downs and three points.

"He has the ability,'' said Haden. "He just can't do all of those things (off the field). He shows flashes like when we were in training camp, some of the things he does, some people just can't do. One thing he has now is he's motivated. He really knows he has a second chance. He has an opportunity and he's just ready to get after it. Just focus more. And (he) just knows he has to be in here a lot more often if he wants to be a professional quarterback in the league. He's told me he realizes that and I'm happy for him."

Haden, who played with Tim Tebow at Florida and witnessed the circus around him as well, feels bad that Manziel's every move is publicized.

"It's a lot for him,'' said Haden, a six-year pro. "It's a lot for a kid. No matter what he does, good or bad, people are always on him. Same way I felt about Tebow playing with him. At the end of the day he's just a normal guy. He just wants to live his life the best way he can."

Like Haden, coach Mike Pettine has seen a change in Manziel, but both men stressed that Manziel's behavior must do the talking for him.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss..._medium=twitter

vid at the link.

"Haden, who's taken it upon himself to counsel the Browns' young and troubled players such as Manziel, Justin Gilbert and Johnny Manziel, plans to continue to be a positive role model for the young quarterback."

Either Haden plans to council JF twice as much as Gilbert, or MKK needs to proof-read her work better.

JF needs twice the help. just like MKK knew before the season last year.

It's also time for the Browns and other people in Manziel's life to pull him aside and address his drinking. I'm guessing the Browns are already doing this, but keeping it private. With the pattern Manziel has shown since being drafted, it's time to have him evaluated by a chemical dependency counselor to make sure he doesn't have a problem. If he checks out okay, he needs to follow Joe Haden's advice: when he and his friends are out, put away the phones.

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/06/is_it_time_for_johnny_manziel.html

j/c:

Perhaps Haden is a changed man, but he was once busted for violating the league's substance abuse policy. Not sure why everyone is so excited about him being a mentor.

I would be more comfortable w/someone like Joe T, Whit, Dansby, or Mack.

Again, maybe all that stuff is behind Haden, but I doubt it. Reading between the lines, as in.......last year his advice to Johnny was it's okay to party, but just make sure you have a designated phone censor, much like a designated driver, so no one could record what you are really doing.

Good advice, but not sure that is a guy w/high moral standards or the guy to keep JM and others away from the party scene.

If you buy the whole thing about Haden not screwing around and partying as much, and getting serious about football for the past 1-2 years (which I do), then I think he's as good a role model as any. Supposedly Haden is quite the drinker and partier, as well. A little while back, he decided he was going to dial it back and focus on football. I think the situations are very similar, minus the Manziel circus factor.

Joe Haden is an awesome player and teammate.

Wow never saw that before, I guess I'm further from the loop then I thought.

Honestly I don't remember that being the case. Was it? I know that the WR coach was on the plane with Gordon, as was Manziel, but I don't recall Haden being on there with him.

Mike Pettine says Johnny Manziel is 'very much in our plans' and it's 'ridiculous' that they've 90% moved on from him

By Mary Kay Cabot, Northeast Ohio Media Group
Follow on Twitter
on April 21, 2015 at 3:18 PM, updated April 21, 2015 at 7:57 PM

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns coach Mike Pettine said a report that the Browns have "90 percent moved on from Johnny Manziel ' is ridiculous and that the second-year quarterback remains an integral part of the team's plans.

The report came from ESPN's Chris Mortensen, who said the Browns had all but given up on their former Heisman Trophy winner.

"I think he used the number 90%,'' Pettine said on the second day of the Browns offseason program. "I use that number 90% too about the accuracy of reports that are out there -- of being 90% inaccurate. I don't know where he would've gotten that from. He's very much in our plans and as we said, his career with us just hit the pause button and we've said this before: he's got to get himself right as a person first before we worry about Johnny the football player. I filed that (report) in the ridiculous category when it was brought to my attention.''

On the other hand, Pettine acknowledged that the Browns are still open to the possibility of trading up for Marcus Mariota.

"Sure, why not?'' he said with a wry smile on his face.

Manziel, who was released from inpatient treatment on April 11th, is participating in the Browns offseason workout program, and stayed for three extra hours on the first day, according to his good friend Joe Haden, who's seen a big change in the young quarterback.

"I've seen that as well,'' said coach Mike Pettine. "I do think and this is the one comment that I'll share that Johnny's made because he'll be the first one to say it: 'don't judge me on my words, judge me on my actions.' That's something that in the past, even I've been critical of him where the actions have to match what he's saying. He's saying right thing, but it's not adding up by what he's doing and that's really been a big part of his message coming out.''

Question is, from a talent standpoint, is Manziel worth everything the Browns have had to endure with him off the field?

"I don't know if I can answer that question,'' said Pettine. "I don't see it as he's putting us through something or it's been a huge negative. As (with) any other player if they had off-the-field issues, we would handle it the same way and we're going to coach him hard. We obviously saw a lot of ability in his last year to draft him where we did and we're very much looking forward to getting him back out on the field. I know he's looking forward to it as well.''

Pettine declined to say where Manziel or any of the quarterbacks stack up in terms of starter, backup, etc. The room includes Josh McCown, Manziel, Thad Lewis and Connor Shaw.

"We're a ways away from just kind of worrying about how the depth part of it shakes out,'' said Pettine. "They're all in that room and they're all trying to learn it. Josh obviously has an advantage having been in this system where there's a lot of carryover before because he worked with (offensive coordinator John DeFilippo) Flip before and I know there's a lot of those similar roots are in there, but we don't really kind of get into depth charts and where guys are.

"This is day one. Guys are working out with coach (Paul) Ricci, coach (Mike) Wolf and coach (Derik) Keyes in the weight room and they get two hours of classroom with the coordinators and their position coaches.''

He wouldn't even declare McCown the leader in the clubhouse despite the fact that they're prepared to go with him as their starter this year.

"No, at this point we don't have a game this weekend, so I'm not going to get into penciling in guys and 'hey this guy's a starter because we thrive on competition,'' he said. "I'm not prepared to make that statement yet.''

Pettine said Manziel is treated just like everyone else in Berea.

"When he's here in the building, he's just one of the guys,'' he said. "There was no big part of the team meeting where he got up and spoke. I know he has guys that he's close to that I'm sure he's had interaction with even before he stepped in the building yesterday. I'm sure he'll handle that as he sees fit, but for us as a staff, he's here, he's just one of the guys here working hard.''

He said it's possible not to single him out because of the way he handles things.

"A lot of that personna is outside of the building,'' he said. "He doesn't carry himself that way. Certainly when he's here he is one of the guys and wants to be treated (like that). He doesn't expect treatment any other way and for where he was a year ago as the backup quarterback and essentially if he's in that quarterback room today and you would not consider him the starter, that that's how he's going to be treated as well. I know that that personna stuff is out there, but if you ask the players I don't think they feel the need -- or have ever felt the need -- to treat him any differently.''

Manziel declined to be interviewed Tuesday and will let his statement from last week stand for now.

link

I really don't think you gotta look too deep. What Mortenson was referring to IMO, is that the Browns were 90% done with Manziel. Meaning that there was only a 10% chance that he'd be here.

I believe that Pettine addressed that very well. Basically, he just through the BS flag on Mortenson.