DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cleveland: The Most Complete City???

I was just talking about this to a friend who goes to college in Arizona, she can't wait to come home to Cleveland on Thursday. She loves it, I love it too.

Why do so many people hate it? Perception might be half the battle. Cleveland's done a terrible job marketing itself. I say it's time to ditch the "blue collar city" attitude and get a new attitude, it's not a snobby white collar attitude or a hippie California attitude, it's the attitude that Cleveland is quite possibly one of the most complete cities in America.

What I mean by that is it might not be New York or Chicago, but hear me out on this.

-We have the major sports teams, except for hockey, but hockey's on life support as it is.

-We have every single aspect of culture and history that the other cities have too. Museums, science centers, theater district, orchestra, old churches, etc.

-We get all the climates. How many cities can say they have a beach AND a ski resort?

-Cedar Point might be in Sandusky, but we claim it as ours, and if not, there's Geauga Lake (Hopefully they don't bury it...)

-Build up the lakefront like Baltimore built up the Oceanfront and we can say we have a beautiful lakefront. ESPN Zone would be a huge addition downtown.

The list goes on, but when I look at Cleveland on paper, it rivals all the major cities. So why doesn't Cleveland market itself that way? Perception is reality, and if we stop perceiving ourselves as damaged goods, maybe we'll crawl out of this economic hole we're in.

Thoughts?

I love the city, but downtown Cleveland is a dump.

Good post..I like Cleveland, was raised there, and like you think it could do more to improve the image.

The first thing they need to do is get some street sweepers on the streets and sidewalks. You go to Chicago, you see the sanitation crews out every morning. Bottom line is the city is pretty dirty. Put a shine on things and some of that blue collar image is erased.

You don't want to erase it all because that is what Cleveland is, but I know many blue collar people who clean them self up.

The next thing the city needs to do is set up a homeless campus somewhere away from the downtown district and get the homeless or just plain bums away from public square. The mission groups go there to feed these poor souls, thus, that is where they hang out. You take the train from the airport to Tower City and walk outside into a sea of homeless and pan handlers. Not the best first impression that has only been reinforced by the less than attractive views from the train......but people expect train views to be less than ideal.

I agree, the lakefront is under utilized. Like it or not, the stadium should have a dome so the place can be used more than 10-15 times a year...or whatever the amount is....I know it isn't used from Oct until May for anything but a few Browns games late in the season.

The beach and skiing....well....I wouldn't try to sell that. Those aren't that good. The other stuff is....Playhouse Square is great just to mention one.

I have often wondered what Burke Lakefront is used for other than some private flights in and out. I would work hard to bring in a low fare airline who hooks into other cities around the country and give them reduced usage fees based on the number of people they bring into town. Work with other cities tourism bureaus to form a sister city program of sorts....take Nashville as an example...work hard to get Clevelanders to visit Nashville for a weekend and people from Nashville to visit Cleveland. The two music halls of fame would be a natural way to link those cities. Run some city subsidized flights on Thursdays through Monday to attract visitors. Do that with several cities. If people could fly round trip to Cleveland for $80, they would.

The city is locked into a fairly low tax base at this point, so tourism is something the city should really market.

You can kinda make that argument for Ohio in general.

P.S. Cedar point owns all.

My family all live in the surrounding suburbs.... I love traveling to Cleveland, I'll be up there on my road trip this summer and hope to move there when I get out of school.

I'd fly anywhere for $80 round trip tickets - problem is, airlines can't afford to do it.

Reading this made me homesick. Yes I admit it, downtown needs some work but I still miss home. I can't wait to come home for the Indians/Reds game in two weeks.

I love it here too. The whole metro area has everything you could want and then some. I love going downtown but it does need some work. You saw a little facelift around 1993 or so when the rock hall was built. the Tribe was hot. I think the leadership is whats keeping us in the gutter so to speak. I know a alternative fuel depot is on the way and if we can get some more business in here thats not manufacturing base then Cleveland can deff spring up and forward.
They need to just get rid of burke and develop the site into something else. Same with that old HS right there. The city neighborhoods are full of culture but in a lot of areas are full of crime. There is theater, art, music, the hospitals are all world class.

Peen...have you heard of the Downtown Cleveland Alliance? They have a crew that's always downtown with a fleet of street sweepers. They're doing a lot to clean up the streets.

The biggest problem downtown in panhandling. There's not much you can do about that, though.

cleveland has a ski resort? Thats news to me

I can't say I have heard of it only going up 4-5 times a year for Browns games.

They need to keep doing it and maybe add a few crews.

Just some comments to other stuff......the $80 I mentioned was a number....and as I said....subsidized by the city....really, they would almost be run as charters.

I don't think I would get rid of Burke....a downtown airport has advantages.....if it is used. I am not trying to squeeze the Muni lot out.....but there is lots of room for housing development and public use space.

As to pan handlers...sure you can run them out...go to Chicago....you don't have hordes of homeless sleeping on the sidewalks in the central area....the key is you have a place they can go for their needed services...run a few blocks east on Euclid Ave. and you could set up a homeless campus...have the shelters,soup kitchens, health services,temp employments offices, social services. This would actually make it easier on the people, preventing them from having to wander all over town to get the needed services.

It wouldn't hurt anything to add more police to the central business district at night.

Cleveland also has some funky street lights....they spend the money to turn on lights and maintain poles and lights, then use these strange bulbs that cast a yellowish, almost a sepia look about town.

How about making it a bit brighter??

I have seen some downtown redevelopment plans and they are amazing.

Here are some major good things for you - houses are cheap

Here is what will continue to kill the n Ohio area...bad public schools, lack of job growth, mass exidous of people from your best universities, etc.

Cleveland does have a lot going for it, but another thing...the weather is awful! Snow in April? Never again. I keep moving south to avoid the snow, and get my annual snow experience when I visit relatives for Christmas and that is good enough.

Other than the ski and beachfront, I can name about 10 cities that have the sports, better job market, beach/oceanfront, and NO SNOW.

Cleveland was a function of the steel, rail and cargo industries...now it isn't and the area still hasn't recovered and probably never will be the top-10 city it once was.

If Cleveland builds off of biotechnology, like it has been recently, it has a good chance to get back a lot of what it lost. The city's going to keep sinking for a few more years because of manufacturing jobs leaving, but things will rebound.

A lot of the downtown redevelopment plans are awesome. The Avenue District, Flats East Bank, Flats West Bank, Pesht - there's a lot of good stuff that is in the process of happening or looks like it will happen.

Getting up the population of downtown is the first step to getting Cleveland on the right track, and it's happening!

Im sorry, I was born and raised in Cleveland, but it cannot compete with certain areas of the country. New Jersey is one example, but there are many other attractive areas around the country that border the major east and west coast hubs of the country. Where potential recruits are educated and numerous, and where it is easy to attract employees to move to. Those two very important pieces of any companies decision make Cleveland a very unnatractive location and thats not going to change in our lifetime. No matter how many new brick sidewalks a redevelopment plan puts in.

Global warming might help.

Sure, I guess if you flood the east and west coasts with rising oceans Cleveland becomes pretty attractive all of a sudden

If weather is so important, can you explain the success of Minneapolis to me?

Or Chicago or New York. They all get snow, wind etc, just like Cleveland.

I love it here too. Today I drove an hour and a half south of here and iambrown and her husband said it felt like they was back in Vermont with the rolling hills, green fields and farms. I can drive 20 minutes west and see major sports, 10 minutes east and there's minor league baseball, It's an hour to the football Hall of Fame, about 2 1/2 to Columbus, a little further and I'm camping in Hocking Hills. If I get tired of the lake in just a mere 4 1/2 I'm watching barges on the Ohio River or taking a ferry over to Kentucky. A pleasant 3 1/2 hour drive north and I can cross over into Canada to Niagara Falls, an hour more and I'm in Toronto. There are the Lake Erie Islands, Catawba oh the list goes on and on. Granted a lot of the good things I've mentioned have to do with getting away from the city but I see it's location in proximity to these other things one of the advantages of living here. I really never lack for things too do and if I want a change of scene it's a short drive away.

I also love going there, walking into the heart of the city, seeing it for what it is.

I purposely park in a parking garage a few blocks away so I have to walk to the stadium.

BTW does anyone know the exact hours of that Transit train center on W 125 St?

Ammo for Mayor of Cleveland

I can't really argue that all the tools are here to make this a wonderful, respected city again. But it's pretty clear that Cleveland doesn't have the leadership to get the job done.

Too much Old School thinking going on down there.

For instance, I'm not a gambler,, never really have been to be honest! But even I see the need for that industry here in Ohio and in particular, Cleveland.

Look at Burke Lakefront Airport.. why is it there,, why does it need to be there?

Take that land, put up three casinos with Hotels. Strike a deal with the Casino owners that they have to build a Convention center for Cleveland.

Move Burke to a blighted area of the inner city,,

Here's what this accomplishes:

Creates both Short term construction jobs and long term jobs in the casinos.

Increases Tax revenue to the City allowing for fixing and repairing stuff

Cleans up a Blighted area of the city and puts in a modern small craft airport that can be used to bring in High Rollers to the casinos

Provides 3 new luxury hotels and a Convention center which coupled with the hotels already downtown should attract major conventions,, Democratic or Republican conventions and the like..Major influx of money,,

Just some thoughts

I like your idea a lot! Kinda kill 2 birds w/one stone deal. Shoot, on the eastside here there are almost entire parts of streets that are just boarded up houses just sitting there. A haven for hookers and dope heads with no siding or pipes. Redevelop Burke, knock down those houses and buy out or use ED to acquire the remaining properties and build another Burke. Then build nicer houses on the lakefront and build a real nice park or something.
I would love to see another nice tall building downtown that serves as a hotel/casino/convention centre. But the people will never let that happen. It sounded like it might work for a minute there but other people in Ohio messed it up for everyone.

I was talking about this with my mom last night.

The new slogan for Cleveland is Cleveland Plus?!?!??!?

Ok, holy fat jokes right there.

My mom's in PR and I'm looking to get into advertising/marketing, so I have somewhat of a background in this although it's a limited background at this point. It's a terrible strategy.

The first thing we have to do is create an upbeat feeling, and while there are tons of tangible things the city could do to help, the first thing is all mental: stop thinking we're this "damaged goods city." Focus on our positives and work towards eliminating our negatives.

We desperately need to drop the "blue collar tough guy" image, even though some of us take pride in that. While we definitely do NOT need some yuppity white collar feeling, we need something in the middle.

And like Peen said, we need some real residential areas downtown, but can you blame anyone for not living there knowing they'd have to send their kids to the Cleveland Public Schools? Yeesh!

That's another thing: fix the schools, at any cost. Good schools draw good people to communities, it's been proven time and time again.

Cleveland+ is aimed at marketing the entire NEOhio region, not just Cleveland.

Just clicking,

I moved to Cleveland about two years ago and love it here. I see a lot of the positives and the negatives you all are citing. This could indeed be a city that experiences a nice renaissance, but the right pieces need to fall into place.

The main problem with the downtown area seems to be the panhandlers. Any time I go downtown, I get hit up for spare change and such. They do need to figure a way to remove that experience for anyone, tourist or not.

While I would LOVE to live downtown, Ìhe cost to do so is very prohibitive. Lofts and apartments there are a little too expensive for my bank account.

As per Burke, there was an article in the paper the other day about how it cannot be used for anything else because the land used to be a garbage dump. After what Garfield Heights is going through with the development there, I don't see downtown Cleveland making the same mistake.

They do need to do something about the crime, as well as the abandoned property. However, with the development scheduled for the flats, coupled with the resurgence of sports in this city, Cleveland may make a big comeback sooner, rather than later.

Quote:

---

I agree. I had a very bad vision of Jersey before we moved here. The location is fantastic (45 mins to NYC, hour to Philly, 2 hours to Baltimore, 3 to DC, 4 to Boston...), the job market is fabulous when you consider the metro areas you have here, the culture is outstanding... Yes, the cost of housing it outrageous but the money to be made here is ridiculous.

---

NRTU just in general on the topic.


That is the type of thing I think people who are younger or who have never left just cannot understand. Its hard to picture the drastic difference in areas until you experience it on a daily basis. I work based out of Hunterdon county and the AVG income is 60,000 a year in that county. There is easy access to wonderful colleges and schools. A wonderful cultural mix that allow you access to the best things from around the world. Surrounded by championship sports. Ballet, Broadway, Opera and every thing you could possibly want.
It really is just a beautiful area with easy international access through ports and airports, a well educated base of people for companies to draw from. And beautiful rural living just an hours drive from the greatest city in the world.
The only real downside is the cost of living, but that comes from being in a desirable area. If Cleveland turned things around the cost of living there will turn right around with it. Its cheap because its not a desirable place when all options are open to you. These are the reasons Cleveland will never be able to compete. It can never match what the major East and West coast areas already have and have had for decades. Thats not to say Cleveland cant turn it around and become a first class B city, but it will never be an A city.

Yeah I read somewhere that 6 or 7 Jersey counties have the highest average household income in the country. If we made in Cleveland what we make here, we could like in a humungous house in Solon or Aurora. Oh well. I will still take it because we are doing great out here... not like living paycheck to paycheck in OH.

BTW I work in Hunterdon County!

I do work as a sub for the Flemington Department Store, in Flemington. If you ever need new floors or furniture for your house you should go check them out. They have very nice stuff, expensive but nice. The local papers usually run a feel good article about our store 2 or 3 times a year. The owners are the sons of Russian Jewish immigrants who made good. Ted who runs the flooring division ends up getting that run a few times a year throughout the local papers. That and his red carpet stories about us doing the celebritiy galas in NY and red carpet for the President of China. Its an inside joke for us, but the owners personal pet is his prized red carpet division

Growing up in Dayton..............I have only been to Cleveland five or six times and it has always been for one reason..............to attend a Browns game!

I have stayed at the Holiday Inn by the stadium a couple of times......so was able to venture around the city by foot.............and was not that impressed.

Granted we had no clue where we were going so it was always a mystery where we would end up..............but I always heard good things about the flats..............but was not impressed at all............run down buildings......and a lot of vacant buildings.

A few years back there was a Hooters............that opened on game day around 8 am..............that was a cool place to hangout.............full of Browns fans of course!

I have ventured into some of the small hole in the wall bars...............pretty cool seeing all the huge pics on the wall...................Hickerson opening holes for Brown.................and lots of old bobble heads on the window seals....some thirty years old or more.

It is just an exciting place for me to visit...............all about the Browns!

Down here is Tampa............there are quit a few Browns fans that hang out at the Browns bar...............but nothing like watching were the entire place is backed with Browns fans................just do not see that down here!

I am not impressed with Cleveland.................but I have never been to a Indians game..........never a Cavs game..............just no desire to do any of that!

Although this winter...............may have to visit the Rock and Roll HOF........and take a stroll over to DTI!

It is probably safe to say................if it was not for the Browns......I probably would have never stepped foot in Cleveland..............just has to do with growing up in Southwest Ohio!

Quote:

---

Look at Burke Lakefront Airport.. why is it there,, why does it need to be there?

---

the airshow

OK now you're in big trouble mister . Sounds like like you need a sight seeing tour.

I have only been to Flemington once... went to an outlet mall out there... out there in Hunterdon County there is not a whole lot of anything.

Can you get me a discount on furniture? We just bought a new house and are in the process of moving in!