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I just see a huge difference between bold and desperate. Desperation leads to mistakes. The injury history with Bradford is a probability, not a "it could happen".
We certainly see it differently.
I don't see a trade for Bradford as a chance at salvaging a season. I see it as just another name on the IR and us being no better off, with the loss of a first round pick to boot. Yeah lets just lay down and take our beating sheeeeeeeeeesh..............Sorry but if you have a problem and do nothing about it your a loser for sure, you take a chance and you may just break free............... If you fail at least you can say you tried. But to just give up without a fight what the hell have we come too....sigh I better go... I get what you are saying... but if you are in prison and want to get out (kind of like we have been in NFL prison for years).. the first time the door opens do you just bum rush armed guards and make a run for it... so when you get shot you can say, "Hey, at least I tried."? No, you have to have a plan, you have to have patience, you have to wait until the time is right and the opportunity is right and the resources are right... yea, at some point you have to take that leap, but you don't just plow on with no plan because trying something (even if there is a high probability it won't work) is better than not trying anything...
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I just see a huge difference between bold and desperate. Desperation leads to mistakes. The injury history with Bradford is a probability, not a "it could happen".
We certainly see it differently.
I don't see a trade for Bradford as a chance at salvaging a season. I see it as just another name on the IR and us being no better off, with the loss of a first round pick to boot. Yeah lets just lay down and take our beating sheeeeeeeeeesh..............Sorry but if you have a problem and do nothing about it your a loser for sure, you take a chance and you may just break free............... If you fail at least you can say you tried. But to just give up without a fight what the hell have we come too....sigh I better go... I get what you are saying... but if you are in prison and want to get out (kind of like we have been in NFL prison for years).. the first time the door opens do you just bum rush armed guards and make a run for it... so when you get shot you can say, "Hey, at least I tried."? No, you have to have a plan, you have to have patience, you have to wait until the time is right and the opportunity is right and the resources are right... yea, at some point you have to take that leap, but you don't just plow on with no plan because trying something (even if there is a high probability it won't work) is better than not trying anything... I have looked at this from every angle DC the timing is good we can make this move and still set our self's up with a contingency plan but I you will have to go back and catch up cause I hate repeating myself but its anything but a bums rush.
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How many reps do you think Manziel got with the starters while Hoyer was starting?
It's not like he was practicing with them every play, every day of practice for the entire season. Hoyer got the majority of the reps with the starters. Chemistry takes time and game chemistry is not necessarily the same thing as practice chemistry. Grimm he didn't even know which direction to turn to hand the ball off. He blew it and they blew it with him, no excuses for that level of awful. None so do yourself a favor stop.. Let me say this too, I want the guy to be good he just isn't, and he isn't reliable enough to head off into the season as the only option, even if he turns it around at this point he has a history and it isn't a good one.
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I just see a huge difference between bold and desperate. Desperation leads to mistakes. The injury history with Bradford is a probability, not a "it could happen".
We certainly see it differently.
I don't see a trade for Bradford as a chance at salvaging a season. I see it as just another name on the IR and us being no better off, with the loss of a first round pick to boot. Yeah lets just lay down and take our beating sheeeeeeeeeesh..............Sorry but if you have a problem and do nothing about it your a loser for sure, you take a chance and you may just break free............... If you fail at least you can say you tried. But to just give up without a fight what the hell have we come too....sigh I better go... I get what you are saying... but if you are in prison and want to get out (kind of like we have been in NFL prison for years).. the first time the door opens do you just bum rush armed guards and make a run for it... so when you get shot you can say, "Hey, at least I tried."? No, you have to have a plan, you have to have patience, you have to wait until the time is right and the opportunity is right and the resources are right... yea, at some point you have to take that leap, but you don't just plow on with no plan because trying something (even if there is a high probability it won't work) is better than not trying anything... Here is almost the identical deal I purposed about a week ago:: Eagles “doing all they can” to get Mariota Posted by Mike Florio on April 29, 2015, 10:14 PM EDT Kelly AP In less than 24 hours, we’ll know whether the Eagles trade up to get quarterback Marcus Mariota. For now, we know they want to. Per a league source, the Eagles are “doing all they can” to make the move from No. 20. Presumably, they’re trying to get to No. 2, via a trade with the Titans. The persistent interest the Browns have in Eagles quarterback Sam Bradford coupled with Cleveland’s pair of first-round picks could allow the Eagles to pull this off without giving up too much. Bradford, the 20th overall pick in the 2015 draft, Philly’s first-round pick in 2016, and maybe another second- or third-round pick could possibly get it done as a three-team deal, if the Eagles can get the No. 12 pick from Cleveland and deliver the 12th pick, the 20th pick, and a 2016 first-round pick to Tennessee. Perhaps the Browns would need Bradford and another second-round pick to give up the No. 12 pick. Maybe the Titans would want another third-round pick in addition to three first-round selections. Regardless, the availability of Bradford and Cleveland’s well-established interest in him makes it easier for the Eagles to put together a package that doesn’t seem all that unreasonable. Sure, Eagles coach Chip Kelly has said he won’t mortgage the future, but Kelly sees the draft as a crapshoot. He sees Mariota as a sure thing. Why shouldn’t Kelly do whatever he has to do to convert a collection of dice rolls for a sure thing? http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/04/29/eagles-doing-all-they-can-to-get-mariota/
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If the Titans are on the clock and the Eagles are trying to pawn Bradford off on us, then I am holding Kelly's feet to the fire. I want Kendricks and Boykin to go along with Bradford.
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There has already been talk of the Eagles being willing to sweeten the pot with Flecter Cox and I think Evan Mathis or an additional 2nd rounder. The rumors sure are flying today is going to be a big day for the Browns IMO. Today we move up the NFL food chain. My thought process is now shifting to who can we get to surround Bradford with and where will we be when the dust clears in terms of draft picks. The FUN is just beginning...... 
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The FUN is just beginning...... Indeed! And I expect that tonight's postings will be intense and greatly differing in opinions. Oh, and by the way, you have nearly got me converted to Bradford. I would rather give up our #19 (and possibly a swap of 2nd or 3rd round picks) for him as opposed to selling the farm for Mariota. Thought I'd never say that I agree with you. Hmmm...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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The FUN is just beginning...... Indeed! And I expect that tonight's postings will be intense and greatly differing in opinions. Oh, and by the way, you have nearly got me converted to Bradford. I would rather give up our #19 (and possibly a swap of 2nd or 3rd round picks) for him as opposed to selling the farm for Mariota. Thought I'd never say that I agree with you. Hmmm... Welcome to the dark side 32. I think if folks can just step back with an open mind it will come to them that this is a great deal for the Browns. It has its risks to be sure but if it totally and completely implodes if we do this right we can still get a QB next year. The key IMO is moving a 1st round pick forward to next year that gives us the hammer again should we have to move up next year. If all goes well we use those picks to add weapons. But we get a great young QB and we still have a insurance policy. The reason the Browns are talked about so much in this draft is because we have the hammer I keep that in tact either thru the eagles deal or with another suitor. We can do this and we should do this....In does make sense and it does come with a risk.
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...does make sense and it does come with a risk. Yes, we all recognize the (injury) risk. That is upfront and a chance that we would be taking. I much prefer the Bradford route than the Mariota one. However, although I understand your thinking about getting a 1st round pick next year, I would prefer to use it this year to get a weapon for Braford, whether it be a WR or RB (Gordon?). If we get Bradford, we can forget about using our 2nd or 3 round pick on a QB (Grayson?). I simply do not want to give up our two first rounders plus another pick or two for Mariota. But the FO will do what they determine to be the best way to proceed...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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I have looked at this from every angle DC the timing is good we can make this move and still set our self's up with a contingency plan but I you will have to go back and catch up cause I hate repeating myself but its anything but a bums rush. As have I and in the end, maybe it just comes down to a comfort level with Mariota. I don't need to be 100% convinced that he is the next Luck, but my level of confidence just isn't high enough to give up so much to go get him. Just like my confidence isn't high enough that Bradford can finish a season to go get him.
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We have to give Johnny Football the chance to start the year as the #1 QB. If that fails, we address the QB position next year. We can even draft someone this year in a later round.
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The FUN is just beginning...... Indeed! And I expect that tonight's postings will be intense and greatly differing in opinions. Oh, and by the way, you have nearly got me converted to Bradford. I would rather give up our #19 (and possibly a swap of 2nd or 3rd round picks) for him as opposed to selling the farm for Mariota. Thought I'd never say that I agree with you. Hmmm... Hmmmm... How many players are you allowed to have in IR again? lol
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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The FUN is just beginning...... Indeed! And I expect that tonight's postings will be intense and greatly differing in opinions. Oh, and by the way, you have nearly got me converted to Bradford. I would rather give up our #19 (and possibly a swap of 2nd or 3rd round picks) for him as opposed to selling the farm for Mariota. Thought I'd never say that I agree with you. Hmmm... Hmmmm... How many players are you allowed to have in IR again? lol Point taken, and acknowledged. But at some point, you have to accept the risk and go for the gusto. There is also a risk (different) with Mariota. Bradford may not be an elite QB, but he is a competent, capable one and your Day One starter....
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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There has already been talk of the Eagles being willing to sweeten the pot with Flecter Cox and I think Evan Mathis or an additional 2nd rounder. The rumors sure are flying today is going to be a big day for the Browns IMO. Today we move up the NFL food chain. I don't want Bradford as my QB, but I am willing to have him if he brings other quality players along with him. Fletcher Cox and Evan Mathis are both elite players at their positions.
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Point taken, and acknowledged. But at some point, you have to accept the risk and go for the gusto. There is also a risk (different) with Mariota. Bradford may not be an elite QB, but he is a competent, capable one and your Day One starter.... There are risks with any draft pick. There are HUGE risks with any QB who has two ACL's in the past two seasons. There are varying degrees of risks. It's how much that is willing to be paid for how big the risk is that I have a problem with. The #19 and #20 will not be enough for the Eagles to move up to the #2. So in my mind, the rumor must involve the #12 pick. It would take a lot more than Bradford alone to make such a risk even something worth entertaining the idea to me.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
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JC...
Management has spoken...and the message is loud and clear, Manziel was drafted to be our franchise QB.
The Browns front office did all they could to insure that Johnny Football got another chance to prove them (Haslam/Farmer) right.
I guess our front office didn't realize how bad Johnny's drinking problem was..until they saw it for themselves. The details about how Johnny got to rehab and exactly what he was there for are not important. What is important, someone insisted that Johnny get some help for his problem..and to JM's credit, he did.
This season, Johnny faces only token competition for the starting job from Josh McCown. McCown is being paid well to step aside when the time is right and he is more than willing to help mentor JM.
Flip and O'Connell know what their primary job is and it is going to be up to JM to take advantage of the opportunity.
I can't remember a franchise ever doing so much to support one individual. Haslam and Farmer are betting the season on Johnny Football.
jmho, mac
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I have been saying it for awhile, I cant remember the last QB we tried to support the way Johnny has been supported. Whether u like him or hate, he has been set up to be a winner here. Now its up to him.
Love our front 3 man i am excited to see shelton added to the mix.
like our linebackers armonty bryant makes me like them more
love our secondary Group is scary good
Love our RBs Adding Duke to West and Crow
Love our Offensive line Healthy with Mack we were top 3 OL and we got better
I like our receivers and I am not even a Bowe fan but I love Hartline and Gabriel
I like our QB and i believe Manziel is gonna be a winner for us.
I like this coaching staff. Pettine made some mistakes last year but not often did u see him make the same one twice.
Hate our special teams
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What is important, someone insisted that Johnny get some help for his problem..and to JM's credit, he did. Hopefully he did it for himself and no one else, because if not he will not be successful at his rehabilitation.
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I am encouraged by comments about how dedicated JFF seems since returning. I realize recovery from his addictions places a huge burden on him. I recall a baseball player, Josh Hamilton, who came back from addiction to become one of the most prolific hitters in MLB for several years. He has since relapsed, which combined with his age, has left him a shadow of what he was. The point is that it is possible.
I've stated before that I am 25 years clean and sober. In my early recovery, I focused my attention on work, to the exclusion of almost everything else. It centered me, gave me the equilibrium I needed to learn how to live sober. That is what he appears to be doing...dedicating himself to football to the exclusion of everything else (at least that is what I am hoping.) With his skills, if that is what he is doing, there is hope he can become an NFL QB. He doesn't need to be Tom Brady, or Bret Farve, or the second coming of Fran Tarkington. If he can be better than McCown and Hoyer, at least as good as Dalton, we have something.
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I have been saying it for awhile, I cant remember the last QB we tried to support the way Johnny has been supported. Whether u like him or hate, he has been set up to be a winner here. Now its up to him.
Love our front 3 man i am excited to see shelton added to the mix.
like our linebackers armonty bryant makes me like them more
love our secondary Group is scary good
Love our RBs Adding Duke to West and Crow
Love our Offensive line Healthy with Mack we were top 3 OL and we got better
I like our receivers and I am not even a Bowe fan but I love Hartline and Gabriel
I like our QB and i believe Manziel is gonna be a winner for us.
I like this coaching staff. Pettine made some mistakes last year but not often did u see him make the same one twice.
Hate our special teams I like your assessment. Don't necessarily agree with everything, but I like it.
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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Mike Pettine Says “I Think It’s Fair To Say” Josh McCown Will Enter Camp as Starter, Didn’t Try to Trade Up For Mariota http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2015/05/04...up-for-mariota/
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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McCown should enter camp as the starter. If johnny wants it, he is gonna have to take it from the Vet. If he is our QB then he will seize the day. If not then we prepare for next years draft.
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McCown should enter camp as the starter. If johnny wants it, he is gonna have to take it from the Vet. If he is our QB then he will seize the day. If not then we prepare for next years draft. I agree with that, and I think that is how Pettine is approaching things. I do also like Lewis as a backup. I just don't know if he can be a longer term starter, and if he can/should be in the starter debate.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
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McCown should enter camp as the starter. If johnny wants it, he is gonna have to take it from the Vet. If he is our QB then he will seize the day. If not then we prepare for next years draft. This sounds a lot like last year. Then both Hoyer and Manziel were crap during preseason and they gave the job to Hoyer by default.
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McCown should enter camp as the starter. If johnny wants it, he is gonna have to take it from the Vet. If he is our QB then he will seize the day. If not then we prepare for next years draft.
When Haslam and Farmer believe it's time for Johnny to start, he will start..you know that and I know that.
McCown is a career backup QB who fashioned a 13 yr career out of being a non competitive individual, who willingly helps to mentor and tutor the young guys who take over the starting role.
When given an opportunity to start last season, McCown produced 1 win and 10 losses..he was a disaster.
McCown will step aside when he is told to step aside...
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[quote=mac]
Haslam and Farmer believe it's time for Johnny to start, he will start..you know that and I know that.
And I don't see anything wrong with that statement. When and if he is ready, of course he will start. That is what he was drafted for...
Last edited by bbrowns32; 05/05/15 07:58 AM.
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McCown should enter camp as the starter. If johnny wants it, he is gonna have to take it from the Vet. If he is our QB then he will seize the day. If not then we prepare for next years draft. This sounds a lot like last year. Then both Hoyer and Manziel were crap during preseason and they gave the job to Hoyer by default. It is just like last year. I'm hoping the difference is that Manziel has grown up and matured and will "hands down' win the starting job. For the team and it's fans, that would be the best case. If not, then it's back to the drafting board
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Two men enters one man leaves!
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I am hoping Manzeil wins the starting job and performs the way we thought he would when drafted him in the 1st round ...
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
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Mike Pettine says Johnny Manziel will start training camp as backup Alec Brzezinski Perform Media May 4, 2015 10:05pm EDT Browns coach Mike Pettine said Monday on 92.3 The Fan in Cleveland that Josh McCown will begin training camp as the starting quarterback. So where does that leave Johnny Manziel? On the bench, at least for now. Pettine said Manziel will get the chance to prove himself but cautioned the second-year quarterback needs patience above all else at this point. "We invested a first-round pick on a quarterback last year, and a lot of people expect us to bail on Johnny after one season," Pettine said. "But it’s on us as coaches to win with what people perceive as a less-than-stellar quarterback situation.“With so many college programs running the spread (offense), it becomes that much harder to find a quarterback that’s NFL ready, so the league is at a crossroads and will either have to go to the spread or draft guys that are going to be bridge quarterbacks." Pettine went on to say the quarterback position might be the most important in all of sports, but mentioned most successful quarterbacks haven't had to do it on their own. Placing McCown in a starting role to begin camp puts less pressure on Manziel and the Browns in a better position to succeed, Pettine said. “Josh has proven that in the right circumstances he can be successful," he said. "We look at last year and think a lot of things were outside of his control. When you build the team right, it minimizes the quarterback's importance." As for the draft, Pettine said the Browns did not make a strong play for Marcus Mariota after finding out his lofty price tag. “We did not, we did not," Pettine said when asked if the Browns pushed for Mariota. "We knew what the price tag would be, and viewed it as reckless to spend that much on one player.” Link
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"But it’s on us as coaches to win with what people perceive as a less-than-stellar quarterback situation yea. thats why pettine will be gone in a year and why farmer will still be here.
being a browns fan is like taking your dog to vet every week to be put down...
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"But it’s on us as coaches to win with what people perceive as a less-than-stellar quarterback situation yea. thats why pettine will be gone in a year and why farmer will still be here. 
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[quote]
yea. thats why pettine will be gone in a year and why farmer will still be here.
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LOL Vambo, is that cfrs15's girlfriend?... 
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635 |
Manziel moves from downtown to the suburbs CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Browns quarterback Johnny Manziel has moved out of his hustling, bustling downtown apartment at the The 9 and onto the front nine.
Manziel, fresh off his 10-week stint in rehab, moved out of the downtown hotspot and into a West side suburb, a source confirmed for Northeast Ohio Media Group.
Browns safety Donte Whitner said on a radio show last week that Manziel had abandoned his downtown digs, a sign that he's serious about staying on the straight and narrow. And Jeremy Fowler of ESPN.com reported Tuesday that Manziel has moved into a golf community and has been using the sport as an outlet after being discharged from rehab.
A source told Northeast Ohio Media Group that it was part of Manziel's aftercare program to move away from the party scene and into a less tempting environment.
It was at the The 9 where Manziel was involved in an altercation with "a very intoxicated, very aggressive person'' who he said put his hands on him and "messed with him'' on Nov. 22, the night before the Falcons game. The fan, Chris Gonos of Sandusky, accused Manziel's roommate of assaulting him, but later apologized for the incident in an email to Northeast Ohio Media Group.
The 9 was also where Browns security personnel found Manziel oversleeping for his treatment the day before the season finale in Baltimore. Manziel was fined for that incident, and it was one of the incidents that led to his decision to check himself into the Caron addiction treatment center.
A source said Manziel moving out of The 9 was an important step in his ongoing recovery process.
The Browns have been pleased with what they've seen from Manziel since he rejoined the team for the start of the off-season program April 20. Browns left tackle Joe Thomas, who grew weary of Manziel's non-stop off-the-field antics last season, told NFL Network last week that the change in Manziel has been "night and day'' and that he's now got his nose in the playbook on a Saturday instead of partying.
Other veterans, including Donte Whitner and Joe Haden, have complimented Manziel for how hard he's working and how different he is. Coach Mike Pettine said he's seen the change too, but stressed that actions speaks louder than words.
Pettine also told 92.3 The Fan on Monday "it's fair to say'' that Josh McCown is the favorite to be the starting quarterback as the team heads into camp.
Pettine stressed after the draft that the Browns aren't expecting Manziel to do anything extraordinary and that he needs to focus on his recovery first and foremost.
"Just come to work every day and perfect your craft,'' he said of his message to Manziel. "He shouldn't feel any pressure to do anything more than that. It goes back to the old cliché that 'All we ask of you is all that you got.' He just comes in everyday and it is going to be very structured for him, as with all the quarterbacks in that room. Just looking forward to him being here, putting the work in and seeing what happens." Another "feel-good" story for JF. Taking himself outta the party scene? Hmmm...
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Good thing they don't serve alcohol at golf courses. . .
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,363 |
Another "feel-good" story for JF. Taking himself outta the party scene?
Hmmm...
I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not, but to me it is a step in the right direction. I honestly don't think Pettine is going to sugercoat anything about Johnny. Praise will be deserved if it happens IMO
#gmstrong
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,317
Dawg Talker
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Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,317 |
When Haslam and Farmer believe it's time for Johnny to start, he will start..you know that and I know that.
McCown will step aside when he is told to step aside...
On its face I don't believe this. You seem to be saying that Manziel will be the starter regardless of merit. I do think that last year as injuries contributed to the deterioration of the offense that Haslam and Farmer were over involved in the decision to start Manziel. Just as I suspect that Haslam was 51% or more of the decision to draft Manziel. What's different this year? First, there was the result of Haslam's and Farmer's meddlesome involvement in a failed attempt to get Manziel on the field before he was ready last year. Including public exposure of behavior, by Farmer in the Textgate affair. Secondly, it seems obvious to me that Haslam has taken a step back from a visible, possibly overbearing role in this year's draft. To me this implies that he will allow the football people in the organization to do their jobs without undue influence from him. In other words, he tried having a more prominent role last year and found the the results were distasteful. Thirdly, I think Pettine has established himself to a degree where he has the stature in the organization to make a call on the starter as he deems appropriate. Additionally, for the most part this off season their actions have matched their stated intentions. Further, the entire team would witness the job being handed to Manziel without merit and that would jeopardize the entire team's cohesion, belief, trust and confidence in management.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Johnny Manziel...continued
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