DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Johnny Manziel...continued

Joe Thomas: Johnny Manziel’s commitment is “night and day” from last season


Posted by Josh Alper on April 29, 2015, 7:49 AM EDT

Earlier this month, Browns left tackle Joe Thomas said that he thought quarterback Johnny Manziel “lost probably a lot of trust” in the locker room with the way he handled his brief ascension to the starting job last season and that he hoped to be “blown away” by Manziel’s commitment to football when the team started offseason work.

We’re in the second week of that work and things seem to be trending in the right direction. Thomas said that it is “pretty apparent” that Manziel realized how important football is to him based on the work that he’s putting in now.

“Towards the end of the season, even when he wasn’t there, obviously, missing meetings and practice and things like that, it’s just little things, and when you’re a quarterback it’s the little things that are the most important,” Thomas said on NFL Network, via the Akron Beacon Journal. “I think those were the things that were apparent by the end of the year, and I think he saw them in himself based on the things that he said right after the season and the steps and the actions that he took in January, February and March. To see the guy in the building right now is night and day from where he was last year in his commitment, and I think he has a bright future ahead of him.”

It remains to be seen whether more April commitment will relate to improved performance on the field, but it’s a necessary step for that improvement to happen.

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I know it's a good story, we all love our Joe Thomas and hold his words a little above others perhaps, but they aren't even practicing yet. The kid was JUST released not very long ago.

Before we start with "see, he's an angel now" and the "he's all fixed", let's see what stories come out in the next months to come. So far, so good but I'm still hesitant to start believing the kid is ready to get serious.

There was video on NFL Network this morning. Thomas and Joe Haden both commented on the difference between Manziel last season and now.

Most of what they said is hard for me to see because I wasn't there then or now, but these are respected men in the locker room (or so it appears) so if they say it, I tend to believe it.

Two other Veterans commented negatively on Manziel at the end of last season, Whitner and Dansby. If they comment in a positive manner now, then that's kinda like icing on the cake and makes it way more believable.

Proof is in the pudding. Let's see what Johnny does in the coming weeks to earn the job.

I am skeptical about JM.. Always have been. But I'd like nothing better than to be proven wrong.

I think it's good to hear.

He is putting in the effort, he is showing he is taking this seriously, and we can only hope it continues and he goes on to "Wreck This League" and take us the the promised land if he is our QB.

But you have to start somewhere.

I am glad to see the positive stuff as well and hope it isn't spin. Just like I won't credit JM's talk any more, I will reserve judgment until he shows something good or bad, and judge that. It won't be open to pointless debates, but obvious as better or worse. Be fair with the metric.

agreed, but he cannot prove it on the field until he can get on the field... all he can do is I work hard within the confines of the restrictions in place and it seems that is what he is doing, plus more.

I think it's great that Manziel made it through rehab and is at least trying to put in extra work and reconnect with his teammates, but until he proves something over a long period of time I'll still remain skeptical. His story is a "feel good" story, absolutely, but the question still remains. Can he play quarterback, and can he play it effectively enough to win games for the Cleveland Browns?

Off the field.

-Stay out of trouble.
-Work hard and win back the locker room.
-Mature and develop into a leader.
-Learn, study and master the playbook.

On the field

-Call plays in the huddle correctly.
-Make pre-snap adjustments and reads.
-Make post-snap reads and accurate throws consistently.
-Be efficient, consistent and show positive progression.

Can Manziel do all of this? We'll see...

Personally, I think he has an uphill battle and a big one at that.

I fully expect this team to draft a quarterback somewhere this weekend, and I think McCown goes into training camp as the starter. Johnny has a lot of work to do and will have to dazzle in training camp to get back into the opening day starter conversation.

I think we give Johnny another shot this year ... JMHO

I listened to Kurt Warner talking about how Trent Green taught him how to be a pro. Johnny can learn a lot from McCown on how to be a pro. He needs to take full advantage of what this regime has put in place for him. Its up to him now however. I think he does have it in him to be a terrific QB in this league but u never know some never suffered adversity and things always came easy for them and when they are challenged they fold.

I think the 5 and 7 step drops are gonna help him. having Mack and this OL returning and the running backs are gonna help. Having O'Connel back working with him should help. I dont know if Bowe has anything left but hey Gabriel, Hawkins and Hartline are probably the best we have had since BE and K2.

Yea i have the man crush on Tyler Gabriel. If he makes the team I will buy his jersey lol. Everyone talks about a deep threat and he was 3 in the NFL in ypc and think of the dozen times he had his man beat by 10 yards and the ball missed him badly.

Anyway this is the best situation we have had a QB coming into since the return. I believe he can do it. Does he still believe he can do it? If he doesnt, its just not there cause, we have a team in place that can win.

I think so too. Basically, this is like a rookie year for him because last year was lost. If, and its a big if, he works hard and can become a decent qb than maybe our qb problem may be solved. One could hope.

Go on and buy the kid's jersey! He signed that three year or whatever contract. He's a restricted free agent in 2017, he will be on the team.

Now, Travis Benjamin on the other hand...

My first thought was great, I would love to see Johnny Manziel become what we all hoped he would be. My second thought was "is this a smoke screen heading into the draft?" Who knows? I guess we will find out tomorrow.

Travis Benjamin is kind of interesting, cause I remember A BUNCH of times last year where he was getting WIDE OPEN deep down the field but none of our QB's could lead him or even throw him a catachable ball. I wonder if McCown has a stronger arm than Hoyer and Manziel? If we can get a strong armed QB to actually get Travis the ball down the field he might become a viable deep threat. If we draft a receiver though, I agree, he's the outside man trying to get back in. Taylor Gabriel was WAY too impressive last season to get cut, I think he's the backup slot guy to Hawkins.

Just as an aside Mourg....its Taylor, not Tyler. IF there's one thing all guys know, its to call your crushes by the right name. They tend to get mad otherwise.

Its Gabriel so I am awful with names.

Tom Brady threw for 6 yards his rookie year. I wish Hoyer could have played at a consistent level the whole season, so we wouldn't have seen Johnny at all. A lot of the blame does fall on Johnny as far as his off field struggles, but he was put into a pretty tough situation as far as game day. His protection was horrid. I would have felt much better if we could have kept him on that Aaron Rodgers plan. I'm worried that we may have continued our ways of breaking young QBs, but I hold out hope that Johnny can get it turned around. Maybe in some twisted way, this is what he needed.

JF couldn't have been any worse then he was and you all are right back at it again, God help you all cause if we hang our season on Johnny will all feel like we have been huge. He has to prove himself to be sure and I hope he does, but we cannot put this team and season in his hands if we do we are screwed, my eyes don't lie he was the worst EVER.

I would rate him a not likely EVER. If there is a way we can move on from him and McCown I hope we do it. Sigh

For someone who went by Upbeat Dawg, it surprises me that you are ready to give up on Manziel already. The guys who are instant answers at QB are not made available by other teams and I don't see one in the draft.

Your eyes don't lie, but they way your brain interprets that information can. People generally "see" either what they hope for or what they fear. We've had a long line of bad QBs, so you expect bad QB play. When you are passionate about something it is hard to look at things objectively. Did he look bad in those two games? Of course. But, I thought he showed some things in the pre-season. He may never be a great QB, but he's definitely not the worst ever.

"Redshirt" Manziel this year and let him get his issues worked out. If McCown can look like he did in Chicago rather than he did in Tamps we should be in every game. We won't win every one, but shouldn't be blown out by anyone. If the ball bounces our way, we could sneak into the playoffs. Get back to the initial plan for him when he was drafted, and maybe next season can be the year of Johnny.

Channel your inner Upbeat, BTTB.

I don't really blame B2B for his sentiment. It's frustrating to continually be without a solution at the QB position. However, he and I just see things differently.

I don't see MM as a franchise QB. I think giving a kings ransom for such a high gamble isn't smart. I think Bradford is a walking injury. So other than a Phillip Rivers deal, I don't see an answer this year.

He speaks in terms of fans being scared but I see it as avoiding yet another mistake trying to address the QB issue putting us even further behind the eight ball.

I see his opinion as wreaking with desperation. The thought that any gamble seems to be a good one because we desperately need a QB. The last time that rational was used, we ended up with Brandon Weeden. Now I'm not comparing MM to Weeden accept for the fact of showing what desperation leads to.

Yet two more years removed from actually finding an answer.

Now he could be right and I could be wrong. Only time will answer that question. Just sort of my take on how I perceive the issue from my side of the fence.

The requirement for me to be Upbeat is I have to have something to latch onto, and JF isn't it, at least so far.

Just what did you see from JF in pre season? Dude sucked then too if you compare it to how he played in season I guess you could say that......

Oh and how is it you interpreted JF, I say he sucked what say you?

McCown will get us the 1st pick in next years draft just like he did for the Bucs, we need a QB and he isn't on this roster. McCown had a nice stretch there with the Bears but his entire career can be summed up in a word and that word is Loser.

Strange things can and do happen, I base my opinion on what I see (JF) or in the case of McCown his track record. So as bad as I want to be Upbeat its impossible given the chance we have this year.

But get us a QB in the next few days and I may cheer up..............

But don't even try to offer me any of the Kool ade you all have been sucking down..LOL

I say he was a rookie that wasn't ready. He has tools, quick release, good arm strength, mobility. He has to catch up on the mental side of the game. Texas A&M did not run a pro-style offense and didn't face teams that ran defenses of NFL complexity. Did you expect an underclassman to instantly grasp all the nuances of the NFL game while also adjusting to the increased speed and all new teammates?

He came in with all the hype, so expectations were ridiculous. I never had them. I expected it to take time. I think he can still pan out.

You can't sum up a career in one word with any amount of accuracy. Name one position group of Tampa's that you would rather have than ours outside of receiver. We're a much better team, and this is a team sport.

Dude we are always behind the eight ball because we don't have a QB, not because we try. When you stop trying the results are along the lines of how bad is it going to be.

You equate my take on desperation but its not, its our need and the opportunity to land a top flight QB which is how I view Bradford. You think he will become injured and he could but so could Mack and he never missed a snap until last year. It happens but players come back and have great careers after ACL injuries yeah its a bad one and Bradford twisted that knee sideways when he wasn't healed, it happens but far more often players who play much more demanding rolls come back and have great careers. Right off the top of my head BE had a ACL and so did AP. BE never had another issue with the knee, and neither has AP, and Bradford can do the same and we can be the guys that took that chance and we can be the guys that reap that reward.

But ALL NFL players are a bad hit away from the end of their career, if you let player injuries stop you from making deals you'll be like us, LOSERS.

Bradford is special he can take this team where we all want to go, and he is a known commodity in many respects, he comes here ready to go and we are ready to go its a match made in heaven if you asked me. Sure you can talk yourself out of and into all sorts of things you have talked to yourself to the point your scared to be wrong, but the part you leave out its as close to a guarantee as you will ever get we will lose without someone and that someone isn't on this roster.

I asked this question the other day is it worth taking a chance on salvaging this season and seasons to follow for a 1st round pick? I guess you have answered that but I do not agree. If we are to break free of the basement we have to be bold...

JMHO

I just see a huge difference between bold and desperate. Desperation leads to mistakes. The injury history with Bradford is a probability, not a "it could happen".

We certainly see it differently.

I don't see a trade for Bradford as a chance at salvaging a season. I see it as just another name on the IR and us being no better off, with the loss of a first round pick to boot.

Please Grimm (thats a roll reversal ah) don't hand me the excuse thing.

I only was looking for a flash which is what I usually look for in a young QB, I know there not a finished product..

But let me say this again he was the worst I ever saw.

You think I'm being unfair because he was a rookie and I'm not I get that part I'm being harsh because I have never seen worse QB play, never ever never..

For that reason and because he is a drink away from being a lost cause I cannot hang my hat on him , and I think that if the powers that be do they deserve what ever they get.

Yeah lets just lay down and take our beating sheeeeeeeeeesh..............Sorry but if you have a problem and do nothing about it your a loser for sure, you take a chance and you may just break free............... If you fail at least you can say you tried. But to just give up without a fight what the hell have we come too....sigh

I better go...

He faced Alabama and almost won both games single handily. (1-1) Saban runs a NFL complex type of D. We all know that the Tide could probably beat "these" Browns on any given Sunday.

Saying any College team could beat any Pro team just shows a lack of knowledge for the sport ... JMHO

Does Nick Saban still not teach his DBs to backpedal?

I agree that Alabama's D is complex for college, but it's not on the NFL level.

You may want to believe that a college team could compete with the pro's, but no. In all likelihood they would get curb stomped by our scout team. I think the same goes for Ohio State or any other college team.

I'm in the pro-Manziel camp for the record. Not necessarily for the start of the season, but as our QB of the future. At least compared to the options we're faced with.

Random thought while thinking about my last post:

They should put together a Pro-Am game where as yet unsigned free agents who spent the previous year on teams face a college all-star team during the build up to the draft. I think it would be enlightening. Of course the agents of draft prospects would never go for it.

Yesterday while reading one of the many articles about draft busts there was mention of that very game that ran from 1935 until 1974 I believe.

http://www.yourememberthat.com/media/14404/NFL_Champs_Vs._College_All-Stars_1934-1976/

I don't think that would have worked at all. The absolute best thing that could have happened for Manziel the football player (and probably also for Manziel the man) was to be forced into action and fail miserably.

The longer he sat on the bench without playing meaningful minutes, the longer his lack of preparation and party-boy lifestyle would have gone on relatively undiscussed. He showed that he didn't take being the back-up seriously and just fully expected to one day have his number called and waltz out and be successful. Glad it happened halfway through year one and not 2/3 of the way through year 3. At least he has a chance to try to fix it.

I agree this may have worked out for the best.

My wishing he hadn't been on the field was more with regards to people being so ready to move on from him already. If he hadn't gotten on the field, I'm sure a lot of them would still be clamoring for him.

Actually, those are some pretty solid points regarding Manziel.

I'm glad he's getting things together.. Hope we dont trade for Mariota. I think Manziel has the determination to overcome his past situation.

I agree DC he needed smacked upside the head. Unfortunety the Bengals were the one's doing the smacking. Now did this change him. don't think so. as he was late the last week for rehab where a team member had to get him up to come to the training room for rehabbing his injury.. Even with a smack upside the head and calleda bust he has much to prove.

There's only one problem with this line of thinking.

And that is we never maintain any continuity within the coaching staff and FO to see a plan through all the way. If your position is that we should always be attempting to solve the QB problem without much regard for risk or cost, in a sort of weird way I agree with you. Because we agree that you cannot win without a QB. I would be more measured in my approach and would consider risk and cost, but yes, you are doomed from the beginning without a QB. So the biggest problem in your approach is that once you make a decision, you have to stick with it and see it through. The Browns as an organization have failed to do this for 15 years. Because when you change coaches and FOs and philosophies, those decisions you've made to secure a QB are thrown down the toilet and the new guys start all over with new philosophies and the players they want.

I cannot stress enough how important continuity is to getting this ship turned around. I hate having to defend this position because it is beyond apparent that not maintaining any kind of continuity is the number one culprit to consistent double digit losing seasons. And yet people will still argue that "you can't maintain continuity for continuity's sake" yet we never let anyone develop a track record.

If you want to be bold and make bold moves, you have to give the guys in charge time. Or else bold moves mean nothing.

That is not true. Whit actually was excited to see JM play.

Both of those guys ripped Gilbert, not Manziel.

Having said all that I have this to say, BS.

Continuity is brought about via winning or the hope of winning (faith) or based on the proven track record of the person involved, but number one on the continuity list is winning. But I agree continuity is something that has sorely been missing here for the last 15+ years and so has winning. But the hope of winning and the faith that we will win has to sustain us at this point in time, and I get that. But when hope and faith disappear so do the people that are the cause of that lose of hope. In other words it has its limits like everything does.

But I will now turn this on you.

There plan last year was #1 hold everyone accountable in fact that was all they talked about when Pet was hired along with Farmer.

My observation is likely different then yours but here is my take. Accountability was a moving target sometime it was enforced sometimes it wasn't. So if accountability was the plan they didn't stick to it. Strike 1

Plan part 2: Start Hoyer and let Johnny relax and have a cocktail or 2 or three. Sorry let Johnny learn the playbook and acclimate himself to being an NFL QB, prepare him to take the starters position in 2015.

Week 15 arrives and they pull Hoyer for Johnny and Johnny is the least prepared QB I have EVER seen. If the plan was to sit him #1 then why was he playing? On top of that how could he be so bad after 15 weeks and training camp? Strike 2

I want to point something out to you here Rish I didn't not follow the plan nor did I make the plan, but I know who did. Strike 3

They trotted him out the following week for an encore. Strike 4

At this point I haven't lost all hope but I'm teetering but its because like Johnny they say one thing and do another. Well I guess we can say Johnny learned something.

I don't for a moment buy into the rookie GM HC they both have been around long enough to at a minimum be professional, so there is no reset button.

I don't think I need to say anymore but if they have a plan they are the ones that need to stick to it, not me or us. I left a lot out you fill in the blanks.

And Rish for the record were you or were you not one of the leaders of Johnny will be great let Johnny play NOW crowd?

How many reps do you think Manziel got with the starters while Hoyer was starting?

It's not like he was practicing with them every play, every day of practice for the entire season. Hoyer got the majority of the reps with the starters. Chemistry takes time and game chemistry is not necessarily the same thing as practice chemistry.