|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,267 Likes: 168
Hall of Famer
|
OP
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,267 Likes: 168 |
Well, I think we gave up too much to move up, but here is the profile
Overview
Started all 25 games over last two seasons, posting 23 tackles for loss during that span. Selected honorable mention All-Pac-12 as redshirt freshman in 2012 and presented with the Tim Petek Award for WSU's strongest man in 2012 and 2013. Had 11 sacks as a senior in high school and played tight end as a sophomore. Lettered in basketball for three years, averaging 13 rebounds per game as a senior.
Analysis
Strengths Former high school basketball letterman and tight end with outstanding foot quickness and an ability to pursue in space. Quick, lateral footwork for plus penetration. Active hands create separation from blockers against the run and help him gain advantage as pass rusher. Rarely gives offensive linemen a static target to strike and it's hard to land a solid, sustained punch on him. Times snap well and fires off the ball. Has ability to sync quickness of hands and feet for early wins along the line of scrimmage. Can transition fluidly from playing the run to rushing passer against play-action. Played defensive tackle and defensive end.
Weaknesses High-cut frame with smaller calves. Appears on tape to be short-limbed for his size as well. Lacks pure power at point of attack. Must win with hands or he can get pushed off his spot. Pad level rises at times when he's penetrating. Lacks true core strength to maintain base when being redirected by offensive linemen. Gets run around the arc as pass rusher rather than countering back underneath. Lack of length affects ability to finish tackle opportunities.
Draft Projection Round 3 or 4
NFL Comparison Clinton McDonald
Bottom Line Cooper must play in a penetrating defensive front in order to minimize his lack of length and maximize his above-average athleticism. He lacks the power to muscle up and hold his ground, but his ability to win with his hands and be a disruptive pass rusher could offer him immediate value as a rotational defensive tackle with a shot to become a starter.
There will be no playoffs. Can’t play with who we have out there and compounding it with garbage playcalling and worse execution. We don’t have good skill players on offense period. Browns 20 - Bears 17.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,915 Likes: 16
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,915 Likes: 16 |
Yet another Nose. Now we have five of them. Are we switching to a 4-3? Five NT's and only ONE real DE on the roster..... Hmmmmm
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,976 Likes: 356
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,976 Likes: 356 |
Yet another Nose. Now we have five of them. Are we switching to a 4-3? Five NT's and only ONE real DE on the roster..... Hmmmmm I wonder if we might not run more 4-3. It is a possibility.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,528 Likes: 6
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 8,528 Likes: 6 |
3-4 DE only. He can get some pressure but he is a bit of a puss that will get pushed around. I know a lot of folks that love this kids upside but I havent seen a whole lotfrom him to be honest.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
Well, they're trying to fix our 2nd biggest weakness. I wonder when the QB will get picked
![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/Punchsmack/punch.gif) “...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563 |
He's not a NT.
He'll be a 3-Tech DE, more than likely.
you had a good run Hank.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,976 Likes: 356
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,976 Likes: 356 |
Well, they're trying to fix our 2nd biggest weakness. I wonder when the QB will get picked Next year. I do not see us taking a QB in what's left of this draft. Why? Who is left that wouldn't take a huge amount of work getting up to speed in the NFL game? If I have counted right, 3 of the top 4 QB in this draft are pro style QB, while most of the spread QBs are languishing, waiting for anyone to call them. We have our top 3 plus one in Manziel, McCown, Lewis and Shaw. We will spend considerable time developing Manziel. I don't see as there is time to develop a 2nd spread QB this year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,882 |
Yeah, I'm cool with waiting because I'm in the "build an o-line and an average QB can be good enough to win a division".
Running and defense. I'm cool with that.
“...Iguodala to Curry, back to Iguodala, up for the layup! Oh! Blocked by James! LeBron James with the rejection!”
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 8,116 Likes: 350
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 8,116 Likes: 350 |
How many D-Line are we carrying?
![[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]](https://i.ibb.co/fkjZc8B/Bull-Dawg-Sig-smaller.jpg) You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,607 Likes: 239
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,607 Likes: 239 |
How many D-Line are we carrying? 49
Blocking those who argue to argue, eliminates the argument.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,711 Likes: 29
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,711 Likes: 29 |
We have so many DTs and our Dline is stacked with bodies...yet our cupboard is bare in other spots...Idk why we needed to trade up for another Dlineman...Seems like he would have been there in the 4th...but who knows
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,583 Likes: 117
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 5,583 Likes: 117 |
How many D-Line are we carrying? 100.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 185
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 185 |
Yeah, I'm cool with waiting because I'm in the "build an o-line and an average QB can be good enough to win a division".
Running and defense. I'm cool with that. Who is our average qb? It is not Mccown, I looked at his stats, and except for those games he started for the Bears they are awful. There are even some years he wasn't in the NFL. Our only hope is that Manziel gets it together.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 8,116 Likes: 350
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 8,116 Likes: 350 |
This should be the best O-Line McCown's ever played behind. He could be average behind it.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,563 |
I'll tell you what, Cooper absolutely DOMINATED Oregon. Wooboy.
you had a good run Hank.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,028 Likes: 14
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,028 Likes: 14 |
Yeah, I'm cool with waiting because I'm in the "build an o-line and an average QB can be good enough to win a division".
Running and defense. I'm cool with that. Who is our average qb? It is not Mccown, I looked at his stats, and except for those games he started for the Bears they are awful. There are even some years he wasn't in the NFL. Our only hope is that Manziel gets it together. Did you by chance check the stats on the team as whole? There is a reason they picked first. If you have a average QB playing on a below average team, stats says you have no success.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 185
Practice Squad
|
|
Practice Squad
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 185 |
I hope so, but his stats are pretty bad and he is kind of old to get much better. If he was about 5 years younger I could kind of see it. I agree that we just need a competent qb, hopefully we have one.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,976 Likes: 356
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,976 Likes: 356 |
We have so many DTs and our Dline is stacked with bodies...yet our cupboard is bare in other spots...Idk why we needed to trade up for another Dlineman...Seems like he would have been there in the 4th...but who knows What spot, besides QB maybe, is "bare"?
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
Apparently there ain't enough Cheetos in that cupboard.
I was going to make a post asking the same question you just did. Then I thought, what's the use? Because the answer will inevitably be WR, QB and TE.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,976 Likes: 356
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,976 Likes: 356 |
While I want a difference maker at WR, I don't see the position as "bare". Bare would imply that we have nothing, and need to completely restock an empty position. That is not the case here at all. I like our WR group, but I want to add a real game changer to the group.
There is no one to add at QB who will make a difference for this team.
I like our TE, and think that we have both talent and depth at the position.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
where is dj in this thread? cooper is one of his favs.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,189 |
The thing with me and "elite" WR's is that they are but a small part of the whole and do nothing of note unless there's a solid foundation, some scheme continuity and a good QB.
IIRC Gordon had two, back-to-back, 200 yd games and we lost both of them. That's because the rest of the team was lacking.
The games we won were without him during his 4 game suspension.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,976 Likes: 356
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 49,976 Likes: 356 |
Regardless, a player who can take the team from being backed up on their own 5 yard line, to being inside the opponent's 50 yard line on 1 play is so important for a team that will have to grind out most of their opportunities.
Right now we have a team that is going to have to be precise in a lot of their plays. Get 10 yards on 2nd and 6 ..... gain 7 yards on 1st and 10 .... but probably very few plays where we blow the top off of the defense. (though Duke may help in that regard)
I want to add another receiver, a guy who can take one of those "ordinary" throws, where it goes for 10 yards, and all of a sudden he has 30+ yards. I want a guy who turns mistakes into big plays, and I don't think that we have that guy on the team right now. I think that it is important to surround a young QB with some playmakers, and while we have some competent NFL receivers, we really don't have many who qualify as explosive playmakers.
Well, maybe we can follow the Steelers lead and find one in the 6th round.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
I'll tell you what, Cooper absolutely DOMINATED Oregon. Wooboy. Not only them. He's a better DL than Shelton, so I'm pretty happy about that trade. It was actually a pretty cheap trade for us. We jumped 15 spots and only gave up a 5th, keeping the two other 4th rounders. Great deal, great pick, great value. Cooper has more upside than any player we picked and along with Johnson will have the most impact
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 Likes: 136 |
Obviously a guy on our board that we were probably thinking of getting with our previous pick and was a target of ours.
Nothing personal but trading 5th and 6th rounders how can that ever be too much especially when we got a lot of them as it is.
We actually are reaching our roster strength where a lot of those 5-7 round picks if they don't stud out on Special teams they are getting cut.
I think we are acquiring a lot of them for the purpose of moving up and getting another top 20 on our Small board in and giving us a solid 5 players in the top 100 of this draft.
Top 20 small board - we create many boards one such is a small board of around 30-40 players that we are targeting roughly 5 or so a round. Cooper might have been #3 on our Round 3 slotting...all others are gone so he had some excellent value to us.
We tend all too often to think...well we could have always picked so n so player later on. Fact is the Browns like this individual player far above the rest as a 3/4 DE. We pick individuals not POSITION...we don't say 3/4 DE he is gone but we can take so n so. They target INDIVIDUALS to be in their eyes a Steal at a certain spot.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,119 Likes: 134
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 42,119 Likes: 134 |
How many D-Line are we carrying? Today? Too many. But some will be gone by September.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.”
Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe."
Damanshot
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,316
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,316 |
Anyone who didn't see D-line and OLB as a major need in this draft were oblivious to reality. Not sure we picked the right ones as I'm not an expert but I like that we hit it hard.
I like the fact that Farmer seems to draft to develop under veterans (ala the good teams) so that when those veterans contracts are up or become contract unfriendly, we're not stuck relying on a rookie to fill the void but a 1-2 year "seasoned" up and comer
I'm coming home, I'm coming home, tell the world I'm coming home
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
http://profootballspot.com/_/nfl-draft/s...er-cooper-r6700DT Xavier Cooper College: Washington State Class: Redshirt Junior Height: 6-3 Weight: 293 Arm Length: 31 1/2” Hand Size: 9 3/8” College Stats 2014: 37 tackles, 9.5 TFL, 5.0 sacks, 0 FF, 0 FR (12 games, 12 starts) 2013: 50 tackles, 13.5 TFL, 5.0 sacks, 2 FF, 2 FR, 1 TD (13 games, 13 starts) 2012: 34 tackles, 8.5 TFL, 3.0 sacks, 1 FF, 0 FR (11 games, 9 starts) NFL Scouting Combine Results 40-yard Dash: 4.86 10-yd Split: 1.69 3 Cone Drill: 7.23 Shuttle Run: 4.37 Vertical Jump: 29" Broad Jump: 9'2" Bench Press (225 lbs): 29 NFL Pro Day Results N/A Strengths Three-year starter including his final 34 games Position and scheme versatility Impressive athleticism and agility for his size Explosive first step and initial burst of the snap Low pad level and rip move very effective in gaining leverage Has a knack for forcing ballcarriers back towards help Closes quickly when he sees a play to be made Relentless in his pursuit to the ball Weaknesses Top heavy frame with overall average length Does not possess elite strength at the position Occasionally runs himself out of the play Often times neutralized if he does not win with first move Initial punch can be powerful, but remains inconsistent Needs to wrap up and finish more plays in the backfield Had notable struggles against zone read plays, especially on the edge Injury History None Overview The draft stock of Washington State DT Xavier Cooper is on the rise and should continue to trend upward into the spring. On his path to the NFL Draft, Cooper had to overcome a severe learning disability and academic struggles. The redshirt junior has turned himself into quite an intriguing prospect. This 6’3”, 293 pound defensive lineman displays terrific athleticism for his size. An explosive first step paired with an innate ability to time snap counts is the reason opposing teams will find him in their backfield for much of the game. Cooper plays with ideal pad level and is impressive in his use of the rip move. His passion for the game shows up on tape in the form of relentless pursuit to the ball. Cooper lacks elite strength typical for the position, relying mostly on his quickness to beat the man in front of him. With some added strength, Cooper will be able to finish more plays at the next level - one of his biggest weaknesses on tape. His frame appears a bit top-heavy and his lack of length is part of the reason he is inconsistent holding up at the point of attack. Xavier Cooper played all across the defensive line during his collegiate career. His large frame suggests that he could fit the role of a 3-4 DE but his skill set would be best utilized as a penetrating 4-3 DT. The former WSU Cougar should find a home on Day 2. Projection Floor: Rotational/Role Player Ceiling: Starter Range: 3rd Round *Note: Projections are based on a five tier system which includes star, starter, rotational/role player, backup/reserve and long shot/practice squad. Chris Licata is a Green Bay Packers journalist and NFL Draft contributor for Pro Football Spot. You can connect with him on Twitter @ChrisLicata16 and Google+. Thank you for reading
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
Cooper has better Combine numbers than Orchard, you know, the dude they intend to convert to an OLB 
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 776 Likes: 28
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 776 Likes: 28 |
Can someone smarter than me (really anyone) do some sort of mock depth chart of our front seven? I can't keep it straight. I know Armonty Bryant is changing positions, and some of these picks are projected as either DEs or OLBs. And I have no idea where a guy like Billy Winn pays now.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
I knew nothing about either guy. Just posting articles.
Don't you like Orchard?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742
All Pro
|
|
All Pro
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 742 |
Obviously a guy on our board that we were probably thinking of getting with our previous pick and was a target of ours. Yup, That's what I thought when we picked him. The price on the trade? I have no idea about this guy. Depends on how he plays. Obviously we felt he was about to get drafted elsewhere. It doesn't matter where Kiper and McShay predict these guys will go.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 8,116 Likes: 350
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 8,116 Likes: 350 |
http://profootballspot.com/_/nfl-draft/s...er-cooper-r6700DT Xavier Cooper Overview The draft stock of Washington State DT Xavier Cooper is on the rise and should continue to trend upward into the spring. On his path to the NFL Draft, Cooper had to overcome a severe learning disability and academic struggles. The redshirt junior has turned himself into quite an intriguing prospect. First I'm hearing about that. Anyone know more?
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
I knew nothing about either guy. Just posting articles.
Don't you like Orchard? I really like Cooper. His athleticism is off the charts for a DT. He's constantly in the backfield. Currently he's not strong enough to be consistent vs the run, but he's not lazy, just lacks strength at the moment. A good pocket collapser to line up inside on 3rd down. As for Orchard, no, I don't like the pick, might be the worst of them all. The best thing about the pick is that in return they got a 4th after the trade down. It was a wasted pick imho. He lacks athleticism, he's too slow and many scouts agree and doubt he can be converted to OLB. I at least expected to see an overachiever like Kikahua, but he really isn't a hustler on the field and not interested in playing the run, a pretender there. He looked best in zone coverage. Biggest problem: where play him? It's doubtful enough if he can be moved to OLB, but he's lacks acceleration and athleticism for the WOLB spot and isn't stout enough to be a SOLB. I guess they want him to "develop" as SOLB behind Kruger. That's the best shot at succeeding, a longshot in my opnion. He's Veikune all over again. Funny enough, he changed his name to Orchard and had a very Hawaian sounding name before
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 12,635 |
Looking like we are going to have a solid rotation at tackle and we may have some situational players. I don't see Xavier a wise decision for obvious running downs, byt JMO.
Kitchens, Shelton and Xavier... Phil perhaps if he can stay healthy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,661 Likes: 40
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,661 Likes: 40 |
I'll tell you what, Cooper absolutely DOMINATED Oregon. Wooboy. Not only them. He's a better DL than Shelton, so I'm pretty happy about that trade. It was actually a pretty cheap trade for us. We jumped 15 spots and only gave up a 5th, keeping the two other 4th rounders. Great deal, great pick, great value. Cooper has more upside than any player we picked and along with Johnson will have the most impact I respect your opinion very much but I have to disagree. I just don't see him being better than shelton
" Now here you are running these dirty old streets tattoo on your neck fake gold on your teeth, got the hood here snowed but you can't fool me, we both know who you are"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 Likes: 906 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,761 |
I think, of the two, he has a better shot at developing into a 3 down DL and he has more upside because of much better athleticism.
For the next season or two, we have to pretend that they are one player, as Shelton will probably play the first two downs and then gets substituted for Cooper on 3rd
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,341 Likes: 98
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,341 Likes: 98 |
Fixing the run D solid pick ...
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 13,358 |
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season The NFL Draft 2015 Browns Select Xavier Cooper with
the 96th Pick
|
|
