No kidding huh? Got to love that mindset that says that if the team doesn't pick their guy the FO are morons. If the posters disagree we are fan boys and idiots. You can feel the desire for these picks to fail dripping through these comments. Can't wait to hear how bad our next pick is!
The more things change the more they stay the same.
Sad aint it. I finally figured there are a bunch of people who post here who only want to wallow in their misery and poke people. Some like to act like it's about debating football but you don't have to hand around long to see through that smoke screen. No point arguing with them because they are always always always right.
The more things change the more they stay the same.
It's hard not having the time or resources to accurately judge these guys- but just taking a quick glimpse on Youtube-this guy is really driven, intelligent, and I like his motor and first step. He's quick off the ball, pretty versatile, and has a high IQ. Just looking at a couple vids, he has pretty quick screen recognition, really excels with that rip-under move, and tackles the football. I like it. Another consideration here is that Kruger doesn't have 5+ more years of extreme high level production. There's concerns about whether he's a better fit at the strong or weak side, but we got a high character football guy who's done nothing but produce. I'm anything but gung ho about him, but I'm not face-palming.
Politicians are puppets, y'all. Let's get Geppetto!
I know the fanboys wanted a receiver, but receivers don't win many games.
Good pick
This is true. Receivers score touchdowns, and touchdowns don't win games. NOT scoring wins games. LMMFAO
Three positions score touchdowns. WR's TE's and RB's. That's it. Period. So unless you think our RB's are going to score 30+ touchdowns this year, receivers that can actually score is a pretty important thing. Unless losing is the goal.
And what is to be negative about? The Browns always make the playoffs. They always get 50 sacks. No one EVER runs on us. They always win the division. They always draft well and make us proud. Johnny Rehab is the greatest QB to ever live. Gilbert is a HOF corner. McCown is Tom Brady and Peyton Manning rolled in to one. All of our new draft picks are perfect and will make the HOF. We are sure to win the Super Bowl this year. Sure, nothing at all to be negative about in the factory of sadness.
I don't understand all the negativity here. From what I have read we improved ourselves with these new players and we have a few picks to go. I'd like to see us pick up a wr or 2 and another cb. With that I think it would be a pretty good draft.
Wow things have gotten pretty emotional. Why I'm not viewing the draft via the board - will discuss football.
1. WRs you need WRs there is no top priority for WRs elite in football - well fantasy football yes, need those stats but not NFL football. you need flow and a QB who is accurate.
2. If you all haven't noticed yet. WR is not a "RARE" breed. early, middle, late even UDFA you can find WRs who can be solid and what the team needs. NEEDS "SOLID" as in win a Championship not garnish stats. We had back to back 200 WR yard games an NFL RECORD never done before, amazing STATS - oh and we lost both games. Evans was by far the best Rookie WR last year everything his investment warranted...and yet there they were the Bucs picking Overall #1 as they went backwards with a great WR season for Evans.
Orchard the pick: Why? Well the RARE positions which are very important in a League built with Parity like no other. So there is opportunities to get the edge on PARITY with the RARE POSITIONS!
1. QB - we know all about that the ones that could have mattered went 1, 2 in the draft. We will have to see what we got with Manziel once and for all.
2. Left Tackle - Not only do we have one but probably the best ONE in the NFL...the clock is ticking on him though as his asset is to protect NO. 1 Priority.
3. Edge Pass Rushers - you cannot have too many of these guys especially on passing downs. I can't wait to see Mingo, Kruger, Amonty, Orchard out there at the same time on 3rd and long.
4. Cover Corners - you cannot have too many of these guys again especially on passing downs with a Spread (4-5 WRs).
What I am saying here is THIS IS A TEAM sport outside of QB all other positions are equally important including WRs.
The point here is the SKILL SET for these four positions is rare - there are not enough to go around the NFL every one you achieve to get on your team is a jump on the NFL to break parity.
There has been mention by the experts of another - for 3-4 teams the rare guy is the NOSE TACKLE...some say as 3-4 teams have grown in numbers that might the 5th.
Now I hear the talking heads yap away about stretching the field. Are you kidding me. There is not a WR in the NFL who doesn't know how to run the 9 route (fly) (bomb) well! yada yada.
WRs are not rare! Every year and possibly there will be a dry year but EVERY YEAR there are 5-10 pretty highly rated WRs that can be NFL starters and then there are so many capable ones that every now and then you see a Pro Bowler pop up from the 7th round or UDFA ranks of course usually from teams with a QB the no. 1 priority.
Orchard was an excellent pick - prior to the draft I read on more than one occasion that our coaches were pretty Gaga on Orchard.
If there our fans out here that don't like this draft... I mean you don't have to LOVE every pick but to HATE every pick then something is wrong. I won't say what? I don't wish to insult anyone but if you can't LIKE this draft so far then as mentioned there has to be some unknown (not football) barriers involved.
Hey I have my Favorites...mine was Maxx Williams - I wanted him heck at 43 then 51 sure I am yelling - NOOoooo I WANTED HIM when he gets picked! It doesn't make me mad or upset on who we took.
Pieces are fitting in on a Roster that is closer to good/great things than you think. Man...Manziel comes through - we got the PARITY mumbo jumbo all covered! Time to make the move!
jmho
Last edited by eotab; 05/02/1508:49 AM.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
I know the fanboys wanted a receiver, but receivers don't win many games.
Good pick
This is true. Receivers score touchdowns, and touchdowns don't win games. NOT scoring wins games. LMMFAO
Three positions score touchdowns. WR's TE's and RB's. That's it. Period. So unless you think our RB's are going to score 30+ touchdowns this year, receivers that can actually score is a pretty important thing. Unless losing is the goal.
But what you are failing to recognize is that it doesn't take ONE guy scoring 16 TDs...
If everyone does their job it adds up...
No, the RBs don't have to score 30, but if they only MATCH what they did last year scoring 17, then everything could fall into place.
Really all we need right now is someone to assert themselves as a Red Zone Player and we have all the pieces in place...That guy SHOULD HAVE been Josh Gordon. Now, we need to hope they can develop the likes of Rodney Smith, a 6' 5" guy who runs a 4.3 40...He hasn't been coached up after 2 years, but I have to think this is the guy they are hoping will progress into the Red Zone threat, along with new TE Rob Housler.
Now you take the rest of the team and start plugging in #s...
RBs 2014 # 17 TDs
WR Dwayne Bowe - 6 Brian Hartline - 5 Andrew Hawkins - 5 Tylor Gabriel - 4 Travis Benjamin - 1
TE Gary Barnidge - 1 Jim Dray - 1
All of a sudden, without adding a super star WR, but everyone doing their job, the TD total is suddenly 23 through the air, which would be the most since 2007. Would anyone argue that these guys aren't capable of hitting those goals above? The only argument comes from whether or not you believe Johnny Manziel will get his head out of his butt and become the guy to throw them...
Now, I purposely held out the two players I ear marked for the Red Zone...TEACH these guys to win in the 20-30 yard range and they can contribute from a scoring advantage, even if they don't become NFL Super Stars.
Combine 10 TDs between the 2 in the Red Zone, and you have now laid out a plan for a very potent offense...
Rushing TDs 17 Passing TDs 33
That's 50 TDs from an offense full of guys just doing their job. 21.9 points per game...
Add in the Special Teams and 3-4 defensive TDs I hope to score and all of a sudden the Browns could be scoring..
Defensive TDs - 3 Punt Kick Return TDs - 2 Field Goals - 30
That's another 7.8 points per game, which propels this team to 30 points per game.
All because we build a dominant defense that wins us field advantage every game.
Who thinks this team could make the playoffs scoring 30 points per game? How about 25 points per game...Hell how about 22 points per game?
See where I am going?
We can make a case that with the current team doing their job, we can get to 30 points per game, but that is way more than needed to get us to a playoff situation, because we are building a dominant defense. So if we can just get 75% of that projection/goal, we should be able to win 10-11 games.
Bottom line, building a team wins games, not a single WR you are ticked off they didn't take in the 3rd round...
These threads are absurd. You know what most posters are going to say as soon as you see their user name. There are a couple who just keep pasting "Great Pick!" to describe each pick and then proceed to spend more time criticizing others than telling us why they were a great pick. Calling people Negative Nancy, Crybabies, etc.
Here is an article that is similar to many I read about Orchard:
Quote:
Overview
Had five tackles and two quarterback hits in 2015 Senior Bowl. In 2014, tied for FBS lead and set school record with 18.5 sacks. Led the nation in quarterback knockdowns with 28. Selected second-team All-American and first-team All-Pac-12 and won the Ted Hendricks Award as the nation's top defensive end. Tied school record with four sacks against UCLA. Finished second on the team with 84 tackles. Started all 13 games in 2013, forcing three fumbles. Selected honorable mention All-Pac-12 in 2012. Arrived at Utah as a 6-foot-3, 200-pound wide receiver. Changed his last name from Fakahafua to Orchard to honor Dave and Katherine Orchard, who took him in and became his legal guardians as a youth. Orchard is married with a daughter. On course to graduate with a degree in economics in May 2015.
Analysis
Strengths
Good foot quickness. Tackles struggle to handle his inside move. Explodes out of a track stance on passing downs. At his best as a squared-up rusher with a two-way go. Utilizes unique stutter step combined with burst to beat tackles inside. Seamless coordination of hands and feet as a rusher. Smooth hips to backpedal into space or turn and run laterally. Stronger at the point of attack than given credit for and offers scheme versatility. Shows juice upfield out of stand-up position. Still improving and learning his craft. Has ability to discard and make plays against the run. Has upper-body flexibility to beat blocker with shoulder turn. Still improving, but shows ability to use hands to help him win quickly. Played well against Stanford LT Andrus Peat.
Weaknesses
Not much of a factor against the run. Will get engulfed at the point of attack. Scouts say he lacks "lead-dog aggressiveness." Not consistent enough as edge setter and rarely looks to lay a shoulder into fullbacks and tight ends coming across to block him. Wins with foot quickness and effort over skill and counter moves. Has a mechanical spin move. Short strider who doesn't gain as much ground around the edge as expected. A little tight in hips and rounds the corner rather than turns it. Only one year of big production.
Draft Projection Round 2 or 3 Sources Tell Us "When I'm on the road, I hear other scouts tell me they think he's tough enough but his tape doesn't show it. He's a finesse player with some a high ceiling as a pass rusher, but he could easily bust out." -- NFC director of college scouting NFL Comparison Trent Cole
Bottom Line
Teams will either be wary of Orchard's single season of sack dominance or they will view it as an indicator of growth and potential stardom. Orchard will be below average against the run, but his draft grade and paycheck will be tied to his athleticism and pass-rush talent. If he can develop counter moves, he has big potential. If not, he might be nothing more than a middling, situational pass rusher.
Vers, we can do a lot worse than getting a situational pass rusher that can eventually get to 9-10 sacks per year...IN THE THIRD ROUND...We just paid MILLIONS for that same type of player in Kruger...
Maybe Orchard will pan out, maybe he won't and I know Pettine is a defensive coach at heart BUT you have the #1 TE available that can help move the chains and helps your defense and could be a great red zone threat. I see Williams as a Jason Witten/Todd Heap type of NFL pro and you pass on him. Of course Ozzie isn't going to pass on him when they also have a need at TE that's why Ozzie is one of the best GMs in the NFL.
This is my least favorite pick of the draft so far. I want to like Orchard the player. I like him the person, I like his backstory, and I love his production last year. But while the one year of production scares me, his underwhelming athleticism scares me more. He didn't test well athletically, and edge rusher is the position where I value athletic testing the most.
Those of you on Twitter or who really dive into the draft have probably seen a guy named Justis Mosqueda (@JuMosq) talk about an edge rusher formula called Force Players (formerly Math Rushers) he uses when evaluating edge rushers. Obviously his formula isn't perfect, but those players who test well enough athletically to pass through and be labeled a "Force Player" have a much greater success rate than edge rushers who do not meet that athletic threshold.
For more information on this, here is a link to a Rotoworld article on it: Force Player Metric
I wasn't bad-mouthing the pick. Just sick of reading all the personal attacks. The crazy thing is that I all the guys who keep saying "Great Pick" or "Love the Pick" never talked about any of these guys prior to the draft. It seems odd that they didn't talk about any of these guys if they thought the guy was great and they would love picking him. Then, they don't tell us why he/they is/are great.....they just rip anyone who doesn't agree.
On the other side, there are a couple who hate every pick. They just don't result to all the name-calling that the homer guys do.
Personally, I didn't know anything about this guy and I am not either endorsing or criticizing the pick. That goes for some of our other picks. I just read a bunch of the player profiles that are available and try to post the ones that ring the most true.
Thus, I posted that article for informational purposes only. I thought it would be more educational than calling people names like Negative Nancy or Crybaby!
I've waited to comment after doing some study on him. He doesn't seem to have those flashy moves, but as someone on a video I was watching of him said - he just locates and gets to QBs. They seemed to move that kid all over the place to send him to the qb.
Said a few times he wasn't with his hand in the dirt much, so hopefully coming in as OLB is a fair conversion for the kid. We'll see, thus far this is my least favorite pick but that's not saying I am down on him/the pick. Maybe he can beef up a little more, add even more power and be a Paul Kruger type attacking LB'er? Kruger doesn't have those flashy, ankle breaking moves, but he's a brute and he can do enough to have more than one legit means to attack QBs.
After we traded back there was a run on LBs. I thought "As long as we don't take a LB, it was a smart trade."
If Orchard was our target, it was a smart trade. Either way, I have no problems drafting LB/DE over WRs.
My only concern with him and Xavier are run support. Its nice to have scheme guys that can pass rush, but QBs can change plays and scheme them into the ground, too.
I would have preferred either TE at 51, but I'm happy with Orchard and if we can get O'Leary then all is forgiven. I think if Orchard wasn't the target in the trade down it was probably Kikaha.
Would have preferred Mauldin over both and Kikaha over Orchard...if the plan was to get a SOLB to develop behind Kruger. If they wanted a classic pass rush WOLB, they should have looked elsewhere
Hindsight, I would have gone RB, Abdullah, Coleman or Duke, at 51 and Mauldin at 77
Maybe I completely missed something in his game, as there are several glowing reports on him, but I just don't see it. He was a one year wonder that shot up boards and Farmer got hype pick happy again, that's my narrative on the pick
#gmstrong
"Players come along at different points in time" - Ray Farmer
Did I miss something did we trade our 6 and 7 rd picks to get back to back 4th rounders ?
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
The Cleveland Browns on Thursday signed second round pick LB Nate Orchard. General Manager Ray Farmer made the announcement.
Orchard is second of the Browns’ 12 draft picks to sign, joining TE Randall Telfer who was inked earlier today.
Nate Orchard – LB | 6-4, 255 | Utah
2nd round (No. 51 overall)
Played in 50 career games at Utah, making 36 starts…Totaled 186 career tackles, 25 sacks, 10 passes defensed, eight forced fumbles and five fumble recoveries…Converted to defensive end from wide receiver…Earned first-team All-America honors as a senior in 2014, also earning the Ted Hendricks Award given to the nation’s top defensive lineman…Moved to Salt Lake City, Utah to live with his brother after living in Oakland with his mother until the age of 11…Attended Highland High School in Salt Lake City, Utah.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I think he, along with Kruger, can help collapse the edge which is rough when Shelton and etc is pushing the middle. Can't wait to see this defense!
I'm on board with this kind of enthusiasm, but I would remind everyone there is a learning curve. We shouldn't expect these kids to step in and immediately be able to dominate experienced pros. Likewise we shouldn't be disappointed if they don't.
1. #GMstrong 2. "I'm just trying to be the best Nick I can be." ~ Nick Chubb 3. Forgive me Elf, I didn’t have faith. ~ Tulsa 4. ClemenZa #1
I know we are all thinking about him as the PASS RUSHER...but what impressed me with the couple of reports that I read on him (Unless they had it completely wrong) is that he is excellent in his Run Defense! Just thought I'd bring that up and curious if the wrong report was laid out for him???
CapCity...this is the new era of slotted rookie contracts with the NFL & Players Assoc. in the new CBA - most of the negotiations are about guaranteed money and not much else.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off! Go Browns! CHRIST HAS RISEN! GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
Leading the nation in sacks is production, not hype.
It is hype, when they are "weak" sacks. Jarvis Jones and DaQuan Bowers led the nation in sacks too and they were all hype too
it's still production. It's not talent or potential, but it's production.
I'm pretty sure Bowers issue was injuries. He was a freak athlete at Clemson, but had knee surgery before the draft and then blew out his achilles in 2012. I'm not seeing many "weak" sacks on his college film.
I'm curious to see how Orchard turns out. I don't really see him as getting a lot of hype, if anyone, I see Fowler as this years hyped pass rusher. Orchard isn't a ridiculous athlete, but he gets the job done. He had 3.5 sacks against a tackle drafted in the top half of round one, but I guess they might not have been playing Stanford football that game. Orchard has active hands and multiple moves, and I'm hoping if not great, his athleticism is good enough. James Harrison ran a 5.01 40 at his Pro day and he turned out pretty well.
You mess with the "Bull," you get the horns. Fiercely Independent.
He had 3.5 sacks against a tackle drafted in the top half of round one, but I guess they might not have been playing Stanford football that game.
Eh, not exactly... one of his sacks came from the other side of the line. I definitely have some concerns about him disappearing for long stretches. I wasn't really crazy about any of the pass rushers in the class. Ray Beasley probably has the most potential but we never had a shot at him. Ray the most of the guys we had a shot at. But Orchard is a Brown now, so I hope he does well.
Last edited by clevesteve; 05/08/1512:23 PM. Reason: brainfart
and its might be logical. 
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