DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season The NFL Draft 2015 Vince Mayle Scouting Report

I agree with you the one play was a catch and fumble. I swear there was a play where he was coming back towards the QB, had the ball in the air, then lost it when a helmet got put on it before landing. Might have been a different game, I've been watching too many cut-ups this past week. Definitely can't find it now. That game may not have been as bad as I "remembered".

Have you guys watched the NFL the past...20 or so years? When a pass hits the hands, it takes 0.2sec until the receiver gets hit very, very often. Good defense you say? Guess what, there are a lot of good defenders in the NFL and good NFL receivers hang on to those more often than not. If they "drops" (because those WILL be considered drops in the NFL) those at the rate he had in the game, he won't last long. He dropped every physically contested pass. Add to that, the report that mentions he "had to be convinced" to play football and really didn't feel it and you get a good sense of what "style" of WR he is.

He's boom or bust. Remember this Mitchell guy?

I happen to think you are wrong on what constitutes a "drop" in the nfl. Seriously.

Each and every year over the past 5 years or so I count what I consider to be "drops" by Browns receivers. Not once has the official nfl stat matched me. I am ALWAYS above the official nfl stat. I'm not lenient on receivers. But I always, always have had more "drops" than the official nfl stats. For what it's worth.

Pluto's article on the draft, with some interesting thigns about Mayle.

Cleveland Browns draft scribbles about a pass catcher, possible fullback, depth at running back -- Terry Pluto (photos) | cleveland.com
http://www.cleveland.com/pluto/index.ssf...art_maj-story-2

BEREA, Ohio -- Scribbles in my Cleveland Browns notebook as the Browns pick a receiver who might play some tight end:

1. Vince Mayle caught 106 passes at Washington State, nine for touchdowns. The fact that Mayle was picked in the fourth round is a sign that he's not a guy who should be expected to play a lot this season. But the former Shasta Community College basketball player is intriguing. I watched some tape on him, and he plays bigger than his listed size of 6-foot-3, 219 pounds. At times, he almost looks like a tight end as he can make himself into a huge target.

2. Mayle played for Coach Mike Leach, a man who prefers to throw the ball on nearly every play. Leach's Cougars averaged 65 pass attempts per game last season! So Mayle's number are inflated by being targeted more than 12 times a game. Profootballfocus lists him with 19 drops, NFL.com has him dropping 14. So he does drop some passes.

3. But Mayle is relatively new to football. He played a little high school football, where he was a running back and linebacker, then went to Shasta CC to play basketball. After a year, he transferred to Sierra CC to play football. His last two years were at Washington State. So he has only been a wide receiver for three years. He opened his 2013 season (first at Washington State) as a third-string receiver. He was also special teams player covering kicks and punts.

4. In his conference call, Mayle volunteered to "play special teams for as a long as I have to." Wise man, as he probably will be fighting for a job. Leach's offense is no-huddle, wide-open spread style. Leach had a good run at Texas Tech (84-34, 2000-09), but is only 12-25 in three seasons at Washington State.

5. Dane Brugler (CBSsports draft expert, Mount Union graduate) wrote this about Mayle: "He is much more than simply a product of Mike Leach's offensive system. A former basketball player at the JUCO level, he is viewed as a hybrid H-back/tight end by some scouts ... although he's not quite as gifted as Louisville's DeVante Parker, Mayle is a lesser talented prospect in a similar mold ... Mayle is an easy player to get excited about with his size, athleticism and the upside his talent suggests – projects as a NFL starter in year two."

6.Mayle is the first wide receiver drafted by the Browns since Travis Benjamin (fourth round, 2012). He will compete for playing time with Dwayne Bowe, Brian Hartline, Taylor Gabriel, Andrew Hawkins and some fringe candidates such as Marlon Moore and Phil Bates. Mayle doesn't look especially quick on video, but I love his size. I think he can be a tight end in some formations when the team is looking to pass.

7. Mayle played on the same team as Xavier Cooper, the 299-pound defensive lineman picked by the Browns in the third round. I feel for Cooper, because Leach's teams have little interest in defense. Cooper had two sacks against No. 2 ranked Oregon.

8. Cooper is a depth guy for the defensive line. The Browns made Danny Shelton their first pick in this draft, and he's a defensive tackle. The two rookies join Phil Taylor, Dez Bryant, Billy Winn, John Hughes and Ish Kitchen on the line. General Manager Ray Farmer has said Ashland College and Valley Forge product Jamie Meder impressed him in the final game of the season at Baltimore, so Meder also should be included.

9. I love the Duke Johnson pick. The third-round pick from Miami is that school's all-time rusher. You can see that the Browns want to add competition to the running back spot. There were times when Isaiah Crowell and Terrance West were benched because their work ethic wasn't up to the coaches standards. Johnson could be the best of the three. He brings an element of more quickness and the ability to catch passes.

10. Running backs also get hurt. Remember 2013 when Dion Lewis and Montario Hardesty were injured. Trent Richardson was traded. Chris Ogbonnaya had some minor injuries. Willis McGahee ended up being the leading rusher (377 yards) and the Browns had only four rushing touchdowns. Depth at running back is a big deal.

11. Nate Orchard seems like a Mike Pettine-type pass rusher. The second-round pick is fast, and Pettine loves those quick linebackers who can rush the quarterback from different spots in the line. Barkevious Mingo was supposed to be able to do that, but that never happened. Orchard is more a solid linebacker, a guy who is effective in pass coverage.

12. So the Browns have Paul Kruger, Mingo, Orchard and Scott Solomon as their main outside linebackers. But there is another possibility, and that could be a pleasant surprise -- the Browns are switching Armonty Bryant from defensive end to outside linebacker. He is a natural pass rusher.

13. The Browns have been looking for a fullback/H-back. I wonder if Mississippi State's Malcom Johnson will fill in at that position. Johnson was a tight end in college, but believes the Browns will want to work him at fullback and other positions. They also took USC's Randall Telfer in the sixth round, another tight end. He has had some major knee problems and other injuries.

14. Fourth-rounder Ibraheim Campbell is a safety from Northwestern. He has chance to make the team as a special teams player. The Browns have only three other safeties on the roster -- Tashaun Gipson, Donte Whitner and Johnson Bademosi. Gipson made the team as an undrafted free agent from Wyoming in 2012. Campbell was on the All-Big Ten academic team and is getting his degree in economics. They added Charles Gaines in the sixth round. He is a cornerback from Louisville, and Browns coach Mike Pettine loves defensive backs.

15. A year ago, the Browns went into the draft with 10 picks. They ended up making only six picks, and stopped after the fourth round. So this draft has been a change of direction for Farmer and his staff.

I don't come on here to make enemies. Usually, I avoid ad hominem arguments. Simply put, I can't trust your evaluations. Earlier, in the pre-draft period you put up an evaluation of DeVante Parker which was strongly critical of the player. Specifically it was Louisville vs. Florida St. You were widely off-base in your assessment. I pointed out in my response a number of issues I took with your observations. All of this is still viewable in the Parker. You simply ignored them. That's OK, you don't owe me a response. It appears that you take a very small sample size and generalize outward from there. This is your right to do so. You may even pass it off as some version of the truth, this is also your prerogative. Respectfully I must treat your evals with skepticism. So that predisposition to skepticism extends to your observations on Mayle.

I don't think he is pro-ready but I also need more before I believe he has a problem with drops.

I'll make one public commitment. If it becomes apparent that he has bad hands, I'll come back on the board and acknowledge that I was wrong.

Yes, I have watched the NFL for over 20 years. And maybe your are right about the guy, but from that small sample video clip I wouldn't call him a bust. I think he has potential but if that translates to the NFL only time will tell.

Where and when did I call him a bust?

It's incredibly annyoing to post what I see, in other words: my opinion, and then having to defend myself from outlandish interpretations of what I wrote.

I posted a vid of him, because I didn't know him. He had a bad game, very bad and that's what I wrote. Not more, not less. Maybe he becomes an All Pro, but based on this vid, he wasn't worth a 4th, and yes, that's my opinion. I'm sure he had better games, at least I hope so

Likely cut before the regular season. Contributor on special teams if he makes the team. Hopefully we can get him on the practice squad.

Sorry man, you just sounded really down on the guy. Not trying to put words in your mouth.

I agree, it IS incredibly annoying when you see one thing and someone else see's it differently, and you get upset about it.

Ironic. We're not allowed to have our opinions? Yet you are? And we're supposed to bow down to your opinion - based on the fact that we've seen the same, 1 game clip? I don't get it.

Your opinion is more valid.........why?

He does look like Greg Little to me. He's got a nice build and is a willing blocker. Looks like an undisciplined route runner an very raw over all. We'll see.

Well obviously if he caught 106 and dropped 14 he didn't drop more than he caught.

Just sayin'..... lol

He's a late round project for Christ's sake!

Are you guys really this

I was talking about the game I posted in here and another poster even pointed it out for another minion who didn't get it

Seriously man, you need to rent a sense of humor. I was kidding around.

This falls into the wait and see category.

I've seen what Django sees, but I also see things that give me hope. His running after the catch is really impressive, and he is deadly on routes where he doesn't have to make complicated movements.

The talent is there. The catching...who knows, we'll find out. But with his ability and baskeball background, he knows how to use his ability to high point the ball and shield from defenders.

This year, I wouldn't expect anything other than some red zone snaps. I think he could be a big weapon there starting this year. But after, sky is the limit.

In 2014, selected second-team All-Pac-12 and Biletnikoff Award semifinalist (nation's top wide receiver). Tied for Pac-12 lead with school-record 106 receptions. Invited to 2015 Senior Bowl. Set school single-season record with 1,483 receiving yards. Had two games with more than 252 yards receiving (Arizona State and Cal). Played in all 13 games in 2013, with seven touchdowns.

Known as very coach able mold able, strong, reliable, and resilient. Ok he needs some skill training.

This film on him posted here is misleading and shows mostly his weaknesses only. Did they even show one of his college carrier touchdown catches? I didn't see any.. Considering where he was selected the value could be huge. He reminds me a bit of John Stallworth.

Question about route running: Gauging wide receivers is tricky, because at the NFL level, they supposedly have to learn route trees and subtleties, etc. And that is a concern wit this guy. But was Josh Gordon a good route runner when he came out, or was his natural ability just so great that it didn't matter? Because he had such limited play in college, he is not exactly a work-a-holic and he seems like, well, a moron. It is hard to believe he was/is a good route runner.

I don't know about this pick. Research says he's a big project with big case of the droppsies. My first impressions are of a Greg Little type pick.

They say his 40-time dropped him as he was a 2-3rd round projected selection. We needed a WR, I wanted a WR and this was what we got. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

Mike Leach has sent some pretty good receivers to the NFL: Wes Welker, Crabtree, Blackmon minus the off-field issues. Hopefully, Mayle can be another.

Blackmon went to Oklahoma State.

You are correct, sir. Dana Holgorsen Okie St's offensive coordinator when Blackmon was there runs the same type of system. I'm guessing that's why he came to mind.

I didn't realize that Mayle was effectively a true sophomore as a football player. Apparently he was playing JUCO basketball before he transferred to Washington St. With that in mind, I think his "drops" are something he has more potential to improve. Kid could end up a steal.

Aren't they ALL crap shoots?

j/c:

Been watching and reading about this kid since we drafted him.

I don't like this pick at all. With all the good WRs out there, why him?

Why didn't we take a guy like Tyler Lockett? I think that kid is really underrated, much like Jordan Matthews last year.

Nice job Vers. At least you aren't like 99% of these fanboys on here thinking every pick the "texting" GM made were future Hall of Fame selections.

This guy won't make it past camp. That's that.

In all sincerity, can you expound on WHY you don't like him? That is a 100% honest question.

Also - at the time Mahle was drafted, was Lockett available? I don't know. I understand you don't care for me - but these are honest questions. No "gotcha's".

I can't say he is better/worse than Tyler, but have you read who Vince had as QB? Reports are not very supportive.

I don't know much since I didn't watch PAC 12 games. Vince sounds like one of the few WRs who actually elevated his QB. Read reports on Vince's play at the Senior Bowl. I deleted the game to early wish I could review his play.

We didn't take Lockett because we have receivers like him. It seems they wanted a bigger more physical receiver who can be an asset in blocking on the edges and down the field, or at least that's my interpretation.

I saw an Anquan Boldin comparison for him from some NFL analyst. He's obviously not on that level now, but that is the one type of receiver we didn't really have. If he can develop and we get Gordon back next year, look out.

Of course, we still need a QB to pan out.

He has talent but needs refinement. I thought this kid had the upside Jalen strong or a perriman and much better hands. Joker will do good with this kid.

He has talent but needs refinement. I thought this kid had the upside Jalen strong or a perriman and much better hands. Joker will do good with this kid.

I think that this kid has huge upside. He only has something like 3 years as a WR. He has great size and speed.

I read his profile, and I like a lot of it, and see why the Browns took him. He is an inexperienced receiver in need of coaching. I think/hope that we have the right staff in place to develop him.

Vince Mayle, WR, Washington State, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/2079732/vince-mayle

STRENGTHS: Good-sized athlete with light feet and smooth acceleration, turning on the burners downfield as a deep threat. Sharp footwork in the stem of his routes with initial quickness out of his cuts. Springs in his legs to out-leap defenders and highpoint the football.
Tracks well with the hand/eye coordination and ballskills to make hands-catches in stride. Adjusts well outside of the normal strike zone with natural body control. Better than expected after the catch with field vision and the lower body flexibility to redirect his momentum and stress defenses - uses the same qualities to anticipate coverage holes and room to operate pre-throw.

Lost 20 pounds since arriving at Washington State and appeared to be in much better football shape as a senior, embracing the physical aspect of the game. Extremely productive senior season, leading the Pac-12 in catches (106) and receiving yards (1,483) and finishing second in the country in receiving yards per game (123.6).

WEAKNESSES: Doesn't consistently play with power and needs to be more aggressive with his functional body strength. Can be re-routed at times and doesn't properly use his limb strength to work off contact. Top-end speed is more build-up than instant.

Will look to run before securing at times, hearing footsteps and not being a reliable finisher at the catch point - too many footballs that hit his hands soon found the ground (drops and fumbles). Needs to show better sink-and-separate skills in his breaks and is far from a finished product as a route runner. Needs technique work as a blocker. Limited FBS experience with an immature past, struggling with motivation and inconsistent focus - had to be convinced to play football after taking a few years off.

--Dane Brugler

PLAYER OVERVIEW

One of eight FBS players to collect triple digit catches in 2014, Mayle is much more than simply a product of Mike Leach's offensive system.
A former basketball player at the JUCO level, he is viewed as a hybrid tight end by some scouts, but showed more natural receiving traits as a senior and although he's not quite as gifted as Louisville's DeVante Parker, Mayle is a prospect in the similar mold. It's clear he's still learning the tricks of the trade and his passion for football needs to be addressed, but Mayle is an easy player to get excited about with his size, athleticism and the upside his talent suggests - projects as a NFL starter in year two.

Growing up thinking basketball was his future, Mayle played one season at Shasta Community College on the hardcourt (2009-10) before taking a year off and switching sports to football, enrolling at Sierra College in 2011 and becoming one of the top JUCO receivers after the 2012 season. He was a three-star JUCO recruit and passed up offers from Kentucky, West Virginia and others to stay on the west coast and enroll at Washington State.

He finished fourth on the Cougars in receiving as a junior in 2013, recording 42 catches for 539 yards and seven scores. Mayle emerged as one of the top Pac-12 receiving threats in 2014 as a senior with a conference-best 106 receptions, 1,483 yards and nine touchdowns, earning Second Team All-Pac 12 honors.

Yeah ..who needs a big physical receiver with great edge blocking skills and can fill the crossing routes with wrekless abandon and can go deep with increasing speed. Usually I agree with vers, not this time. This was a pick focused in on a style of WR that we can develope.

Not sure what you mean by underrated... The Seahawks traded their third, fourth, fifth, and sixth round picks to get ahead of us and other teams in the top of the third to draft him. I agree there are other receivers I liked better than Mayle, even when we drafted him in the fourth, but it was clear we weren't taking a receiver in the second and Lockett was gone by our third.

At least we got the guy who led the nation in sacks with our second.

This is based purely on my own gut instinct (admittedly I've only seen Mayle play 2-3 times that I can remember), but I think he'll struggle to succeed in the NFL for two reasons:

1. Lack of separation. Forget the 40 time, but if a WR can't separate that is trouble.

2. More importantly, lack of consistency catching it. If a WR isn't a blazer and can't separate, then he BETTER have off-the-charts hands ... and Mayle doesn't.

He can separate just fine, his route running ability is probably his best attribute. His hands...we'll see. It makes no sense as to why he drops so many balls, because he makes great catches too, where he can high point the ball and go on top of the CB.

We'll see. I think at the very least he'll be a good special teams player. Hopefully Joker can coach him up.

I'm done researching this kid. My final conclusion is I'm not expecting an impact from him. Talent he seems to have that maybe our staff can untap. Not much work at WR. Potential is there, but alot of work IMO to get where we want him. Drops drops drops...

There had to of been better options at WR. Less "project" type people.