DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season The NFL Draft 2015 Questioning the Plan...

Hopefully the Giants stink really bad and decide to rebuild, letting Eli become a free agent.

We can dream!

Y town,

I had no expectation of finding a QB to play this year in the draft. That was a FA issue that was addressed with McCown. The only time McCown had success was in Chicago with superior offensive talent.

My comment is strictly related to that of a developmental prospect that could be a plausible replacement for Manziel, if things do not turn out. (The Jets went this route, even that Saints and Rams.

It is the most important position in the game. There is no plan b, the Browns will be starting over again.

We can discuss the flavor, bet Petty, Grayson, and Mannion are off the board.

Like I said, I liked Mannion, but IIRC, he went really early in the draft.

Grayson went at pick 75, which I fond amazing. Mannion went next at 89.

We added Duke Johnson, who I think will be a great weapon for us. Grayson was already off the board by then. Mannion was off the board by the time we picked at 96. As much as I liked Mannion, I would not have taken him in the middle of the 3rd round.

Next up were guys like Patty and Hundley, neither of whom I liked at all. They have the physical ability, but need to be completely "built" as an NFL QB. We already have a guy we are building in Manziel, who we invested heavily in.

The 2 guys I might have considered were off the board a round before I would have considered them.

We could have drafted a guy with absolutely no chance (OK, maybe a 0.05% chance) of becoming even a solid NFL starter. What would that have gained us though?

We have 2 guys who have been NFL backups, and occasional starters. We have Shaw, who has the brain and no arm. Then we have Manziel, who is the key to our QB spot. Either he is going to develop this year, or we look for a QB in next year's draft. This year's draft was a horrible draft in which to need a QB.

I think we are building a defense to keep us in games. This will give Manziel, or whoever comes after him if he fails, time to grow and learn.

In the past, many of our new QBs were playing games from behind, and you just don't want to put games into the hands of an inexperienced QB on a regular basis.

Build a stout defense, keep games close, and you will always have a chance.

I keep hearing the same sad song and dance...The Browns FAILED to bring in a receiver to take the top off the defense..

What they don't take into consideration is that they have those types of players on the roster already..

They have Andrew Hawkins who runs a 4.34
They have Travis Benjamin who runs a 4.31
They have Taylor Gabriel who runs a 4.30
They have Phil Bates who runs a 4.48 at 6'1" 220 lbs
They have Rodney Smith who runs a 4.43 at 6'4" 225lbs

Now add to these players above, who have the capability to "take the top off the defense", they added veterans in Dwayne Bowe and Brian Hartline who have proven they can run routes in this league to win against a defense.

I have said this before, but all we have to do is have everyone do their job and this can be a very effective offense. I feel even better about those sentiments with the additions of Cameron Erving and Duke Johnson.

I personally had Jaelen Strong rated above Erving, but it is APPARENT I am missing something as 32 PROFESSIONAL scouts and GMs have him rated drastically lower than I did...I am glad they took a lineman whom they had rated higher, rather than reach on a WR out of perceived need.

Irish,

Taking the "top-off" has become a over used media buzz word. They used the same term here in St. Louis. Fans here are not happy Rams took Gurley over a receiver. I simply leave it, but if I were a Rams fan, I'd be happy camper.

Really the problem isn't lack of receivers. In order to expose the safety, offense must allow time for the receiver to get down field. QBs don't throw a deep ball on a whim to easy for a pick. How does an offense buy time? They can design play-action plays. They can build up an offense line. They have a QB who can scramble.

What do the Browns have? Easy...OL. Bowe and Hawkins both have good hands and good play-action receivers. They have good RBs. If you do the math, someone is getting single coverage. Can either Josh or Johnny find the open receiver? Here lies the big question.

Last year Browns proved their receivers were serviceable. I think they needed a little more help. Adding Bowe and Heartline will make it very tough on teams to single or zone coverage allowing defense line to pin their ears.

What I thought our biggest weakness was at WR was large targets. Guys who could be more physical. I believe they helped address that problem with the additions of Bowe and Hartline. Would that have been my ideal scenario? No, but it's not like the issue was ignored.

KI am really curious to see if Rod Smith becomes anything at all.

The Broncos once took an undrafted receiver named Rod Smith and turned him into a superstar ..... let's hope we can do the same.

I look at this way. Receivers can't do it alone. It takes a support cast. I think it is almost as hard finding the alpha receiver as it is finding your franchise QB. Teams who build their receiving staff with specialist, such as New Orleans and Green Bay, do rather well.

For the future, Browns need a replacement for Bowe and Heartline. Mayle looks like a Bowe's replacement. I assume Farmer addresses Heatline's position next year.

Who knows maybe Gordon returns. Now this receiver corp looks worlds better with no huge first or second round investment. If Gordon doesn't work, you get your alpha receiver. With the players on board, his transition to the NFL would be a heck of a lot easier, and offense is still functional and not dependent on this guy. Maybe get lucky like Pittsburgh and get a Antonio Brown look alike.

(I responded to eotab in another thread, but decided it really belonged in this tread...so I transplanted.)

I may be new to the board Tab, but I'm not new to being a Browns fan. I grew up listening to (mostly radio, televised games were rare in the early 60's) Jim Brown hitting the line like a mack truck and carrying 2-3 tacklers for 5 yards, struggling to get up, limping back to the huddle...then hitting the line again like a mack truck, carrying tacklers for another 5 yards. I know the frustration, especially since the return. I realize many fans, even die-hard fans, are frustrated and impatient for results. They want an end to the suffering...so do I. But I also recognize that fixing this franchise can't be done overnight, or even in 2 years. Too many years of 1 regime drafting players for their system, only to have the system changed by a new regime every other year, resulting in mismatched players and/or players who don't fit the new scheme. The only way to get past this is to stick with a regime long enough to put a system in place and let it and the players settle in.

What I see now is something different. I see a team of Farmer & Pettine who have a vision and a plan to make this team great. It's not a quick fix, adding a QB here or a WR there. It's a rebuild from the ground up. Whether they can succeed remains to be seen. But they deserve the time to prove out. While many fans are frustrated with the seemingly perpetual series of bad team after bad team, I am frustrated by fans who are simply too impatient to let things work out. They've seen the same things I have, but they still pass negative judgement at the first mistakes, ready to throw the baby out with the bathwater. They act like they've never made mistakes, never been able to recover from them to go on to be productive. Winning isn't about not making mistakes, it's about overcoming them.

Look around the league at the perennial powerhouse teams, that are contending year after year. What they have in common is continuity. They all have regimes who have been in place for years. Oh they might change OC or DC, even a HC from time to time as they move on to better jobs. But the systems remain intact. That's what this franchise needs, and Farmer/Pettine, in my opinion, give us the best chance to do that that we've had in years.

No offense and I am not picking on you, so please do NOT take it personal, but do you know how many freaking times I have read that since 1999?

No, you don't.........and I don't either, because it has been more times than I can count and I am a Math and Science teacher.

I have seen others post the same stuff about this year's draft. They are just meaningless words to give us hope. It's important to have hope, but past hopes have led to only more failures, disappointments, and frustrations.

Put it this way..........so many homers say that you have to wait 3 years to properly evaluate a draft when guys are not considered a good pick or perform poorly in the first year, yet the same guys who say that can somehow give a glowing evaluation of a regime long before the same three years have expired.

Sorry, I ain't buying it.

This has been the most rational draft I can remember us having. You can see what they saw in the players with respect to their vision for the team. We didn't reach on a QB or trade up in the 1st for a running back. We didn't take guys with any red flags until the later rounds where it makes sense. We shouldn't have any work ethic/diva issues this year. And they're still all great players with production that stacks up with the best. We didn't pick a receiver that doesn't fit us. We didn't gamble a high pick on DGB. We're still a QB away from being truly elite, but there wasn't a sure fire guy available, and we got guys who can help us compete without one.

Of course, it's all on paper at this point. We'll have to wait to see them on the field before we really know anything for sure. But, for a generally pretty pessimistic guy, I'm feeling pretty optimistic about the season.

this is probably the most thought out draft we have had since 1999, we stuck to the board(so it seems) and we are rewarded with solid football players (hopefully)

Preach it brother!...

I'm not buying it either. Now I'm not saying they will be a failure either and I don't see you saying that here. But when weighing what appears on the surface to be pluses and minuses to this point, there is no clear indication this regime will be an outstanding successes.

From reading what you have been posting lately, I believe you see things much the way I do. Last year the first round was a joke but they did add some talent later. Not that top tier talent you find in the first round, but Botonio was damned good and others added some talent. Nothing outstanding. Then there was text gate which was pure stupidity. So going into this draft, I had some major doubts.

This draft, on paper only, looks better. Better character guys. Guys I consider good "football players". Nothing I see as big reaches early in the draft. So while I still have grave doubts, I do see some improvements over last years draft and see some hope for improvement moving forward.

But it's far too early to tell. Continuity is a wonderful thing if it equates to improvement. While I do understand the point people make about continuity, I feel it does bear pointing out that none of the regimes of our past since 1999 have gone on to do great things elsewhere with the lone exception of Bruce Arians which was our OC from 2001-2003 under Mangini.

So on the surface, it appears we could have held continuity with a variety of coaches from our past and never done anything successful. Not saying it may have not worked, but there's certainly no evidence that it would have.

I'm all for giving this FO and coaching staff some time. But just like with RAC, when it's time to go, it's time to go. There's a line between continuity and banging your ahead against a wall.

How's that for balance Vers? lol

With our current offensive depth chart (at least at QB) and the difficult looking 2015 schedule on the horizon I've been saying for weeks that the ONLY way we'll be competitive next season is if we can run the football consistently and effectively on offense and then stop the run on defense. Not exactly advanced football knowledge, I know. But it's true.

We addressed defensive line, pass rush, offensive line and we added a kick/punt returner and a guy whose going to compete for carries and passes right away.

I have no problem with the plan.

We're minimizing the holes around the QB position on both sides, and I love it.

I do agree, we need someone to step up BIG at receiver and tight end.