DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Camp Competition...where are we short?

The Front Office has repeatedly referenced adding strong competition across the board on our roster going into camp. Even though the off-season still has veteran cuts to come I decided to try to create a run down of "likely" competitions to try to figure out final target spots for those last couple veterans that may be brought in.

QB: Assuming 3:
It looks like McCown and Manziel are safe leaving Shaw and Thad Lewis to fight over the final spot.

...Overall: Like most, I'm not particularly pleased with this spot on the roster and doubt any proven veterans are going to become available in cuts. Only remaining option would be to consider mid to late 2016 draft picks to trade (Mettenberger, Cousins or Glennon...but are any the answer for the future??)

RB: Assuming 3:
Crow, T West, and Duke. As far as running back by committee there's definitely talent here and short of bad news bears happening we are likely set.

...Overall: Grab some UDFA so our defense has plenty to hit.

FB: Assuming 1:
The rookie Malcolm Johnson (FB/HB/TE) will probably edge out Agnew do to versatility. Or, if Agnew wins out, MJ will join at least one other drafted player that gets stashed on the Practice Squad.

...Overall: It's fullback

TE: Assuming 3:
After the 2014 draft I had Telfer as my 6th round pick. Then I found out about his 2014 surgery the month before (followed by a 2015 surgery). I have to assume the Browns did their diligence, so he gets one spot. The other 2 spots will go to the winners of the Barnidge/ Dray/ Housler camp competition.

...Overall: The first mildly interesting camp battle of the list. Only mildly though as I could honestly care less who wins. None of these guys are the type that are likely to add to a win total. Some attention is still needed here. Sorry.

WR: Assuming 5:
For me 4 guys are likely safe (Hawkins, Bowe, Hartline, Gabriel). With the addition of Vince Mayle and Duke Johnson (kick returns)it appears as though T Benjamin may have a serious battle on his hands to stick around.

...Overall: This group may be only serviceable for a year, but it is an improvement and does put a consistently poor and oft injured WR in a position to try to convince Farmer to keep 6 Wide Receivers (I don't see it happening though)

OL: Assuming 9:
I think most would agree 6 are set one way or another (Thomas, Mack, Bitonio, Erving, Greco, Schwartz). I can't imagine a team going into the season with less than 8 and likely 9 O-lineman though.

...Overall: There should be some serious competition on the right side to see who ends up left out as the "6th" man to safe guard against injury. It would be nice to bring in some depth challengers though as we clearly had nothing close to a camp battle for the starters last year. A swing tackle perhaps as that is the new rookies weakest "projected" spot.

D-line: Assuming 8 (an impressive 9 with Armonty Bryant in sub packages.
Wow...uhhh... Taylor, D Bryant, D Shelton, B Winn, J Hughes, Randy Starks, Xavier Cooper and the Kitchen.

...Overall: If they could actually stay healthy (Taylor and Hughes only played 5 games and Winn played 13) this should be an interesting camp battle. Though with Petine's repeated desire to be able to sub the bigs in and out, perhaps the number of snaps should matter more than the paper football starters. If Taylor gets healthy, Kitchen may have a serious battle on his hands.

LB: Assuming 8 (9 if you include sub package Armonty Bryant here...though by all accounts he will still play primarily with his hand in the dirt)
At the moment I would have to say 6 are fairly safe Kruger, Mingo, Nate Orchard, Dansby, Kirksey and Roberston. Rookie Hayes Pullard may have a massive battle on his hands against Scott Solomon, Eric Martin, Darius Eubanks and the special teams play of Tank Carder

...Overall: Every level of defense is really setting up for some nice battles and LBer is no exception. If the interweb reports of using Armonty Bryant occasionally as a stand up ruser/OLB are true then those last couple spots are going to be a mad house. . Particularly if the final number crunch forces a team heavily stacked at D-line and D-back to carry 7 LB's instead of the 3-4 defense "standard" of 8 or 9.

D-back: Assuming 10 at the moment (11 if you include Efo Ekpre-Olomu who may start the season on the PUP list).
Wew, big list. Heavy investment these last two years. Haden, Tramon Williams, J Gilbert, Pierre Desir, Charles Gaines, Tashaun Gipson, Donte Whitner, Ibraheim Campbell I'm going to mark as "safe". I really like K'Waun Williams as well.

...Overall: Even with Ekpre-Olomu possibly on the PUP/ recall IR, it looks like (initially) the final spot for a defensive back will come down to whoever is the better special teams weapon between two very good special teams players (Bademosi and Poyer). Regardless of the outcome the backline of the defense should remain a strength with strong starters and some impressive young depth.


Though Quarterback remains a big question mark and we still have some long term building to do with our receivers and TE's, it's hard to imagine bringing in any more serious competition on defense. Overall Linebacker strength may be a bit weaker than I'd like but there's an awful lot of youth there as well.

It is nice to see the aggressive approach to building a defense though. Hopefully it will pay off rapid dividends.

The only positions that still bother me now are Quarterback and Tight End...

...add WR in 2016, but for now...

Don't forget, we also had Glenn Winston on the roster at the end of the year. It's possible we keep all four and use Duke Johnson as the KR/PR.

We also signed that Shaun Draughns.

Forgot that Dawg_LB. I think we are better off in a lot of places on this roster than most on here. If (I know, BIG IF)the QB situation gets sorted out somewhat, I think we'll be okay.

And I think Farmer loves Winston.

Never seen a GM talk so glowingly about a player that never played before.

I'm not really clear about injured reserve and the non-football injury lists, but I think they are possibilities for Telfer and Ekpre-Olomu. I think we go with Housler, Barnidge, and Dray this year, with Telfer replacing Housler next year. My only concern is the potential for them to be "poached", like we did with Bowie, though I think he was waived/injured. I'm not really sure how the process for IR/NFI work, do they have to clear waivers to get there?

That leads me to Michael Bowie probably having a spot in the O-line room. If we can convince La'el to sign with us assuming his issues clear up, our line would be stacked.

I think we might try to roll with only two QBs on the active roster, with Shaw sticking on the practice squad because of the depth we suddenly have on the rest of the roster.

Could we roll with 7 receivers. Bowe, Hartline, Hawkins, Gabriel, Mayle, Benjamin, and Rodney Smith. I think Smith is at/nearing the end of his practice squad eligibility (maybe not with the new rules).

Linebacker is interesting to me. I think Eubanks, Tank, and Martin are fighting for one spot and they might all not make it.

Do we go with three or four RBs? I think Draughn is gone with Duke coming in. Crow and Duke are safe, but either West or Winston could be trade bait if we go three.

It should be an interesting camp. Deepest team I can remember us ever having outside of QB, and with some luck only one will take meaningful snaps all season.

Agnew was cut last year, and has not been re-signed as far as I know.

What happened to the running back Winston everyone on this board were ga-ga over?

I really like your breakdown

And this is before we see if any of this year's UDFA's earn any serious looks!

We are still short at QB, kicker, ol depth, and maybe TE

I can't imagine Manziel will start if he still lacks the work ethic and/or sucks throughout training camp.

I agree. I will pull for Manziel's success, in light of what we have tied up in him, so he can have some shot at succeeding. But I think last year's wasted opportunities will slow him down until later in the season if he can get it done. He has ground to make up.

Hope somebody emerges as playable and more. Just being better than what we have may not be good enough to beat better strangers.

I wouldn't be surprised if the tryout kicker Kloss ends up winning the job. I liked him coming out of South Florida and would not have been upset if we had used that last pick on him. Much better kicker than Manton or that Colorado State guy in my opinion.

We are short at receiver. Have you seen Hawkins, Gabriel, and Benjamin?

Seriously though, we are a pretty well rounded team. I wouldn't be surprised if we brought in a veteran safety to play in our three safety sets.

I'm a really big fan of Armonty Bryant and Scott Solomon. I think together those two will REALLY round out our pass rush. Solomon came on extremely strong to end the season, and Bryant has one of those first steps that can drop your jaw to the floor. I'm excited to see what those two do in training camp, and I hope they get fair shots. If they excel I could actually see B. Mingo as the odd man out, in my own personal opinion his containment is bad and he's a lousy pass rusher. If Kruger, Orchard, Solomon and Bryant all out produce him in camp and the preseason it wouldn't shock me to see him traded. I also wonder if Mingo could survive as an inside backer?

Defensive line should be really interesting as well. I could see Winn and or Kitchen end up being cut depending on how Starks, Cooper and Shelton all look in camp and the preseason. I like the idea of starting Shelton, Taylor and Hughes and then the second line being Cooper, Desmond Bryant and Randy Starks. That's quality depth. If we keep a 7th defensive lineman, I think Winn and Kitchen are battling for the final spot.

Oh man are our cornerbacks crowded.

I think Haden, Williams, Gilbert and K'Williams are safe. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see them try and more Desir back to free safety because of his size (I think he's 6'1). With the addition of Gaines and the Oregon kid, one of them are going to end up on the practice squad or cut. Desir and Gaines could be battling for that final roster spot though.

Wide receiver I think the top four guys are locked in with Bowe, Hartline, Hawkins and Gabriel. I don't think the kid Vince Mayle will contribute a whole lot this year unless he tears it up in camp and the preseason. I read a few scouting reports after we took him, and each one said we reached. I like Duke Johnson as kind of a hybrid runningback/wide receiver type role, he's explosive with the football in his hands. I think Travis Benjamin ends up being the odd man out, especially if we elect to keep four tightends.

If I had to pick, the WRs is where the competition isn't bright. These type of questions, to me, when thought is put into it reveals we are decently well-rounded. It's not like we have a single group where we are like "well, we're screwed."

We have some sort of foundation / base!

Short at OL depth?

We have 3 first round picks, 2 high seconds, and a guy who was originally a 3rd. If we can't find a 7th and 8th OL out of the rest of what we have, then we need new OL coaching.

QB means everything. Being short of one is fatal and does not speak well of the FO.

Who's short a QB we have a rejuvenated Johnny Manzeil

At this rate, I estimate (rounding down) about eight or nine QB's to start camp. Just about half go on the practice squad. Should not be short there.

Considering what's out there, I think they did the best they could. Can't get blood out of a turnip

Then about 20 franchises need to fire their front offices, since they can't magically make a QB appear from thin air...

That remains to be seen.

Possibly true, and in a way I agree. Competition isn't always a good thing. Sometimes letting a person know it's their show..... be it playing a sports position or managing a sales district.

Crossing my fingers, toes, arms, legs, and eyes.

or more talent to coach. Remember you can polish a turd, but it is still a turd when your done.

Last year we built the foundation and dug he basement. This year we are building the walls, and installing the plumbing and wiring, and getting a roof on. Next year we can add the furnishings so we can start enjoying our new house.

You feel that we are lacking Oline depth? I suppose we could use another OT/OG, but depth guys are never of starter quality...

Right now we have 6 o-lineman who won't hurt us if they play, and 2 bums who will. Half the o-lineman starting in the nfl today started out as depth, and if Joe Thomas goes down we are screwed wose than we were when Mack went down.

that way we can get our hot rod (QB) stored safely in the Garage

We don't know what we have in Bowie yet. Erving was an All-American Left Tackle, he only played five games at center. Obviously he'd be a step down from Joe, but I think it's harder to lose a center.

Yeah, I agree... This is the first time we've had a legit backup at left tackle since Thomas was drafted (since we drafted Erving.) I do think Erving will also be the primary backup for center.

Darrian Miller, the OT from Kentucky, got a $20k signing bonus, so they must like him a lot as well. Teams only get something like $88k in bonus to sign all their UDFAs. Last year, they really liked Crowell and he only got $10k. I think he will end up being a better backup OT for both sides than what we've had in the past as well.

So is Bees and Wilson and so was Sipe ...

We have a short QB so I have no idea what they're talking about!

J/C

i guess its what you consider Competition. we brought in a 32 year old CB who is on his last legs to compete for CB#2. ofcourse the starter last year is not on the team anymore and the backups didnt play much but i guess you could call it competition. just not quality competition.

Name me one other team with as heavy an investment in the OL as us. (top 1-6 players)

The Cincinnati Bengals are just as heavily invested in the OLine as the Browns. Just at the Tackle position the have 4 players all selected in the first 2 rounds of drafts.

Cincinnati is trying.

Back to our QB situation, I wonder what Flip thinks of Pryor.