DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Satanists Seize On Hobby Lobby To Test The Limit Of Religious Freedom

I'm not exactly in favor of these items but I see no reason why it should be illegal between consenting adults. Your use of the "slippery slope" argument sounds like the same logic used to prohibit minorities or woman from voting many years ago:
"Well, if we let them vote, then we'll have to let the animals vote too" = "If we allow gays to marry, then they'll be marrying animals too" (or substitute homosexual polygamy in there). It's just silly.

I mean, really....if there is a homosexual polygamist family in this world, how does it affect you personally? It doesn't. I may not like really greasy cheeseburgers but that doesn't mean I'll tell you that you can't order one. It's the same concept. I'll keep my "beliefs" to myself but laws of the land have to allow for different beliefs to exist. This is a concept most right-wing Christians can't comprehend.

The Gov't is NOT pushing any agenda on us. It's simply doing what is right and fair to all. The ONLY ones pushing an agenda are the Christian Right because they feel the Bible gives them an agenda to push.

Wow you must be old to remember someone saying if we let women vote, we will have to let animals vote. I never heard that one before, unless of course you are digging down deep in the bag to make your point.

Everyone keeps asking how these issues effect me personally. Well they tear at the foundations which our society was built upon and thus weaken the Family and the Nation. I don't want this rot to set in as it did in all civilizations before us, destroying them from within.
As an example I point to the laws and decisions made in the past to help the poor and Black community. They lead to the destruction of the Black family unit and their community.

Sure i'd support a dude getting married to multiple women, like those polygamist in Utah.

As long as he could support those women, and they all lived in the same household, to cut down on fraud, sure.

See, i really don't care, as long as consenting adults agree.

nothing they do, or gay people do, infringe on my rights. at all. they don't infringe on yours, either.

once again, gays getting married doesn't make my car payment go up. neither does polygamy.

nor does it make me question my sexuality, nor does it make me want to marry multiple women.

See? I'm the true conservative on this board. I don't give a crap, All you guys are just pretenders.

40, you're only down for freedom when it comes to corporations and christian religion. you're not for the rights of individuals.

most of the people i see calling themselves conservatives are anything but.

40, I don't have a problem with gay marriage and I wouldn't have a problem with polygamy... sure, there would be issues to work out, such as health insurance rates.. a company signs people up on the family plan... and individuals rates are worked into that.. so if it became common, which it wouldn't, you couldn't have a company providing family insurance for a dude with 4 wives and 14 kids... but that seems like a minor issue to work out.

Sometimes believing in freedom and rights means people get the right to do things you don't agree with.

What foundations are being torn apart and how is it weakening families more than poverty, infidelity, technology and domestic violence?

How exactly does the nation become weaker if gays are allowed to marry?

How can all the other issues effecting black families be connected to allowing gay marriage? I understand that many people believe the so called welfare state has caused problems, but how is that in any way related to this issue?

Will gay marriage increase global warming or strengthen Al Queda? Will it increase date rape too? Will gay marriage lower my gas mileage?

"When our country was founded we were a country of what they called nuclear families, that is a mom and pop raising their own children in one household and that kind of an institution is really an economic entity. It's able to support itself and make its decisions, but once you break it up you bring the government into the picture and that's what's happened and that's why our welfare spending has just skyrocketed because when a woman is having babies without a husband to be the provider she looks to the government to help her out."

Pop culture, filled with television shows depicting single-parent families and other influences "putting down and acting like a family isn't important" have eroded the culture and damaged the country economically.

"There are people who say, oh we've just got to deal with the fiscal issues and not worry about the moral and social issues, but what are we spending the money on? We're spending the money on people who are not able to support themselves because they have rejected the nuclear family."

After a period of welfare reform that required people receiving government assistance to work, President Barack Obama immediately abolished that directive "by the stroke of a pen that he brags about." .

The American tax code was revised to incentivize people having children without getting married, in essence having the federal government subsidize the American family.

While parents once were entitled to make decisions "in the best interest of the child," the courts have taken over.

"Somehow in the 1970s' the judges took over that, they redefined it and now it's judges who are deciding what is in the best interest of the child and they don't have any law or scientific backing and it just, they're just ruling by the seat of their pants whatever their preferences are."

"The result is just a disaster, but what it means is that the government is making ordinary decisions about what the kid does that ought to be made by the mothers and fathers. We even find, there are even some judges who have decided what church the kid's going to go to or whether the child is allowed to be homeschooled or whether he can play baseball or soccer. Well, these are not decisions for a judge to make. It's the parents who ought to decide what is in the best interest of a child."

"an overwhelming majority of single women, especially with babies, voted for Obama.

"They know that single women are their best and most reliable constituency so it is a political issue in addition to everything else, but it's also a breakdown of our society and we're not going to be able to rebuild a decent society unless we rebuild a family,

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsmax-Tv/Americ...0/03/id/598459/

How in any way does that article relate to gay marriage? If two loving people want to marry, that is a good thing based in the article. Two men or two women can be just as loving as a heterosexual couple towards their family and children.

I can somewhat agree with the article in that having children without two loving parents is detrimental, but that is the opposite of what gay marriage is about. Based on the article, you should be for itas it is two people who love each other trying to build a family.

By rewriting and/or not teaching American history in our public school system, most of our children today are growing up without a clear understanding of how our republic began in the first place.

If children do not know how their freedom was acquired in the beginning, how long it took or how much it cost to purchase, they will never know the true value of freedom. They also will never know the noble heritage the ‘left’ is seeking to deprive them of.

One need not be a prophet to recognize the future of a society that:

Is rendering its own moral laws illegal thereby replacing long established morality.
Killed over 50 million of its own citizens.
Is promoting homosexuality in it public schools to replace 400 years of successful Judeo-Christian values, while pushing for approval of homosexual ‘marriage’ as well as all the weird sexual fantasies the human mind can envision under the mantra of ‘diversity’ and calling the outcome ‘normal’
Is turning parental control of children over to an increasingly malicious and dysfunctional Marxist oriented government.
Is promoting ‘open borders’ and encouraging illegal immigrants to feed out of the same bowel we the citizens paid for.
Is finding it more difficult to stretch a barbed wire fence across the border of Mexico than it was to send astronauts to the moon. In the interim we are becoming the biggest dumping ground for illegals, misfits and potential terrorists in the world, in addition to placing our own citizens in physical and moral jeopardy.
Given these circumstance, I am amazed at the nonchalant attitude and lack of concern or involvement by the very people who have the most to lose, namely parents. Handing our children over to an education system dedicated to the deconstruction of the parent’s values is frightening.

America is witnessing a massive transfer of legal power to people with a value structure based on the religion of Humanism. Humanism and Marxism have never ever produced personal freedom for anyone in the history of the world. Our present government is systematically dismantling America’s 400 year old traditional Judeo-Christian value structures and replacing them with failed Humanist/Marxist values.

A majority of nine men in black robes, and a President who has little traditional American cultural history himself, has said in effect, this is the way it’s going to happen to be America, regardless of your heritage, history or traditions, like it or not.

http://www.vachristian.org/Our-Nation-Un...-Destroyed.html

These excerpts from various articles reflect some of my feelings on the subject and as PDR would attest to, they say it better than I ever could. You can read the entire articles but I chose what best represents my opinion.

It scares me that 40 can find people who agrees with him. Like there are multiple people who have no idea what's going on

Living in a Judeo-Christian vacuum will do that. Their values are right and everyone else's are wrong.

Marriage has and will continue in many ways to be a sham 40.

Men cheated on their wives with rampant aplomb in the early days of our nation (as they did before), but the wives just learned to accept that as life. Men had a mistress or visited the brothel but had children with a wife. Benjamin Franklin admitted to hiring several "strumpets" as he called them.

And I don't need to bring up divorce rates to illustrate how marriage is still a sham 40, as I'm sure you are aware of.

I have several cases of divorce in my extended family, and one case of a gay relative who married their longtime partner when it became legal years ago in Massachusetts. They are still together and happy as ever. It's anecdotal to be sure but said gay relative is the most normal relative I got...

America’s 400 year old traditional Judeo-Christian value structures and their success says those values are right.

Check this out...

Start at 8:38

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm7rY2XU8WA

Some of it was right. Slavery wasn't right. What our ancestors did to the Native Americans wasn't right. Working men and kids in coal mines and other terribly unsafe places until they died wasn't right. Giving women lesser rights wasn't right.

The single biggest thing they got right was the freedom part, the part that allowed our system to change and adapt. Because they knew they didn't have all the answers, they knew times would change and we needed a system of government that could change with it.

Did I say it was perfect? We stand here today as the most successful Nation in the world, I would say that is evidence of success.

Adults Raised by Gay Couples Speak Out Against Gay ‘Marriage’ in Federal Court


Four adult children of same-sex parents have submitted amicus curiae briefs in the 5th Circuit Court of Appeals asking that it oppose the legalization of same-sex “marriage."
The Court, in New Orleans, La., heard arguments on Jan. 9 as it considers whether to uphold traditional marriage – defined as being between one man and one woman -- in Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi.

B.N. Klein, Robert Oscar Lopez, Dawn Stefanowicz, and Katy Faust all grew up with homosexual parents. All four argued that redefining marriage to include same-sex couples would harm children by depriving them of a mother or father.

In her brief, Dawn Stefanowicz described her experience living in a same-sex household.

“I wasn’t surrounded by average heterosexual couples,” she says in her court brief. “Dad’s partners slept and ate in our home, and they took me along to meeting places in the LGBT communities. I was exposed to overt sexual activities like sodomy, nudity, pornography, group sex, sadomasochism and the ilk.”

“There was no guarantee that any of my Dad’s partners would be around for long, and yet I often had to obey them,” she said. “My rights and innocence were violated.”

“As children, we are not allowed to express our disagreement, pain and confusion,” Stefanowicz explained. “Most adult children from gay households do not feel safe or free to publicly express their stories and life-long challenges; they fear losing professional licenses, not obtaining employment in their chosen field, being cut off from some family members or losing whatever relationship they have with their gay parent(s). Some gay parents have threatened to leave no inheritance, if the children don’t accept their parent’s partner du jour.”

“I grew up with a parent and her partner[s] in an atmosphere in which gay ideology was used as a tool of repression, retribution and abuse,” B.N. Klein wrote of her experience with a lesbian mother. “I have seen that children in gay households often become props to be publicly displayed to prove that gay families are just like heterosexual ones.”

Klein said she was taught that “some Jews and most Christians were stupid and hated gays and were violent,” and that homosexuals were “much more creative and artistic” because they were not repressed and were naturally more ‘feeling.’”

“At the same time I was given the message that if I did not agree (which I did not), I was stupid and damned to a life of punishing hostility from my mother and her partner,” she recounts. “They did this with the encouragement of all their gay friends in the community and they were like a cheering squad. I was only allowed out of my room to go to school. This could go on for weeks.”

“I was supposed to hate everyone based on what they thought of my mother and her partner,” said Klein. “People’s accomplishments did not matter, their personal struggles did not matter, and their own histories were of no consequence. The only thing that mattered was what they thought of gays.”

Robert Oscar Lopez who was also raised by a lesbian mother and her partner, had a different experience which he described as the “best possible conditions for a child raised by a same-sex couple.”

“Had I been formally studied by same-sex parenting ‘experts’ in 1985, I would have confirmed their rosiest estimations of LGBT family life,” Lopez wrote, but then went on to argue against same-sex marriage saying that, “behind these facades of a happy ‘outcome’ lay many problems.”

He describes experiencing a great deal of sexual confusion due to the lack of a father figure in his life. He turned to a life of prostitution with older men as a teenager.

“I had an inexplicable compulsion to have sex with older males,” he recounted, saying he “wanted to have sex with older men who were my father’s age, though at the time I could scarcely understand what I was doing.”

“The money I received for sex certainly helped me financially because it allowed me certain spending money beyond what I earned with my teenage jobs at a pizzeria and in my mother’s [psychiatric] clinic,” he states in the brief. “But the money was not as impactful as the fact that I needed to feel loved and wanted by an older male figure, even if for only as short as a half hour.”

“As early as ten years ago, I developed a clear stance on homosexual relationships. A civil union or some kind of state recognition would have helped my mother and her partner,” Lopez writes.

“Yet the traditional marriage laws in New York State as they existed back then prevented my mother and her partner from entirely cutting my father out of my life,” he explained. “The latter reality proved pivotal because my re-establishment of ties to my father in 1998 led to a transition in my life, from being lost and sexually confused to being stable and romantically fulfilled.”

Katy Faust, who grew up with a lesbian mother and her partner also testified against gay marriage but clarified that “my advocacy against gay marriage and for the rights of children will never include condemnation of my mother and her partner or details about their private lives.”

“When we institutionalize same-sex marriage,” Faust writes, “we move from permitting citizens the freedom to live as they choose, to promoting same-sex headed households. In doing so, we ignore the true nature of the outcropping of marriage.”

“Now we are normalizing a family structure where a child will always be deprived daily of one gender influence and the relationship with at least one natural parent,” she explains, “Our cultural narrative becomes one that, in essence, tells children that they have no right to the natural family structure or their biological parents, but that children simply exist for the satisfaction of adult desires.”

The 5th Circuit is still considering the legality of state bans on same-sex “marriage” and will issue an opinion in the coming months.

The U.S. Supreme Court announced on Jan. 19 that it will consider gay “marriage” bans in Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky and Tennessee with oral arguments in April and a ruling before the end of the current term in June.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/lauretta...e-federal-court

By what measure are we the most successful nation in the world?

Everything in that article can, and does, happen in heterosexual relationships as well. And a whole 4 people, lol. There are thousands of kids in this same situation that are fine.

There is nothing in that article that really makes it unique to same-sex couples.

That has been my stance on people who hold your opinion.... if the people who subscribe to your view were putting out a significantly higher percentage of first-class kids.... of if they were respecting and treating marriage the way they should.... or if there was some empirical evidence that shows you were right, I'd get behind it. But I go to church every Sunday... I love my church and the people I go to church with... but there kids are no better or worse, their marriages are no more stable, many of them are divorced or single parents... they have issues, their kids have issues, my marriage and kids have issues.. and they are no different than the issues I see in families (traditional and same sex) outside of the church. So until the Judeo-Christians separate themselves from the others in a meaningful way to actually show that their way works better, it's going to be hard to win that argument.

Why? You know others who are more successful than the U.S.?
-Economy
-Able to defend themselves alone Militarily
-Ability to support other Nations
-Quality of Life
-Stronger safety net for the poor

We have the worst social mobility of all developed nations.

You continue to pick away at my 400+ years of evidence of success by asserting the system isn't perfect so we should tear it down by undoing its foundations.
Point out the speck in your brothers eye while missing the entire plank in your own eye!

Splain yoursef!

How is allowing same sex couples to marry tearing the whole system down. LMAO.

Conservatives like you are why we will not ever have a conservative President anytime soon. The intolerance is unbelievable.

Google "social mobility in the developed world". The results are shocking, and absolutely sickening.

You continue to talk out of your hat. You say "Its only 4 children testifying before the Supreme Court." Well how many thousands of hours do you expect them to allow in testimony? Time is limited and 4 may speak! Wake up

Now what are you gumming about? Oh yea, conservatives. Who sir controls your House of Representatives now? Who sir controls your Senate? The American people are in the process of stacking the deck and you can't even see it! Wake up

There are many, many, many children from traditional marriages that are in just as bad if not worse shape than those in the article. Bad parents are everywhere.

I am a conservative, and almost always vote for conservatives regardless of their view on this topic. I am ashamed that people feel this way, however pretty much all of my beliefs fall on the conservative side and I want them to win the Presidency as well - I just don't see it with views like yours. It turns way to many people off to the point where they will not vote for them. Personally, it isn't a huge issue on my plate, so I don't hold it against candidates as many others do. I think it is one of the items to keep us bickering so the real issues can be ignored.

I found this...

Some studies have found that not only is the degree of social mobility in the US not large but it has either remained unchanged or decreased since the 1970s.[12][24][25][26] Other research shows that economic mobility in the U.S. increased from 1950 to 1980 but has declined sharply since 1980.[27]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socio-economic_mobility_in_the_United_States

I am glad your brain is not dead like most on here but as to my views, Well, I ain't running for nothin.
I am only trying to place a soul in my soul-less fellow Browns Fans and to contradict some of the indoctrination they have suffered at the hands of their Marxist educators.

Like I said, nothing political here.

bwhahahahahahahahahahha. the ONLY thing we're number 1 in is military.

strongest safety net for the poor? no,

quality of life? no

support other nations? other nations do that all the time.

economy? no.

i love my country, but lets not make stuff up.

PaaaLeeze! No more crying over our ancestors and the Native Americans! Just another example of Liberal, anti White propaganda forced into your head by progressive indoctrination educators! Don't let me show you the proof because you can't handle the truth!

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/us-social-mobility-problem

When liberals complain about the 35-year rise in income inequality, conservatives sometimes answer that unequal outcomes are the price America has to pay for bounteous economic opportunity. That argument has gotten harder to make in recent years, as it turns out the U.S. lags most comparable nations—including France, Germany, and even Canada – when it comes to social mobility. The Horatio Alger ideal of young bootblacks (or their latter-day equivalents) rising to become captains of industry had much more plausibility during Alger’s lifetime (1832-1899) than it does today.

here's the study:

http://www.oecd.org/tax/public-finance/chapter%205%20gfg%202010.pdf

so native american's can't complain about what europeans did to them, blacks can't either.

but we can't tell the jews to get over the holocaust, right?

anyways,


lol@religion.

Of course they can complain, who said they can't complain?
Start a thread, I will be there.

Ironic that you are here telling people they are wrong and we should do things your way.

Are you without sin?

PaaaLeeze! No more crying over our ancestors and the Native Americans! Just another example of Liberal, anti White propaganda forced into your head by progressive indoctrination educators! Don't let me show you the proof because you can't handle the truth!

^^ thats what you posted.

typically, when somebody post something like this, it also means that you think natives and blacks can't complain, because when they mention it, its also "anti-white" propaganda.

which to me also means being calling things as anti-white or pro-white means you think whites are superior.

you've never heard me say i'm pro-black. ever.

Also 40, you must be for gays not paying taxes, correct? i mean, since you don't want them to have the same civil liberties as everyone else because of religion, then that means they shouldn't pay taxes.

also, that means all the people who got married, straight couples, who aren't religious, their marriage is invalid and illegal too, yes?

Nebraska woman files lawsuit against all the homosexuals for being gay

http://www.salon.com/2015/05/06/nebraska..._for_being_gay/

A Nebraska woman filed a handwritten lawsuit against homosexuals — all of them — in the U.S. District Court of Omaha last week, the Lincoln Journal Star’s Lori Pilger reports.

Sylvia Driskell — acting on behalf of her plaintiffs God, and His Son, Jesus Christ — listed as the defendants anyone who is a homosexual or goes by the alias of “gay.” While it is clear that Driskell considers homosexuals to be abominations who shouldn’t be allowed to marry, it’s not clear what she expects the Omaha district court to do about it.

The 66-year-old asks “to be heard in the matter of homosexuality, is homosexuality a sin, or is it not?” In her careful cursive script, Driskell cites the favored biblical passages of bigots — Leviticus 18:22 and Romans 1:26 — before complaining that she’s heard “the boasting of the Defendant Homosexuals on the world news; from the Young to the Old; to the rich an [sic] famous, and to the not so rich an [sic] famous. How they were tired of hiding in the closet and how glad they were to be coming out of the closet.”

She continued, saying that even homosexuals know “it is a sin to live a life of homosexuality. Why else would they have been hiding in a closet?”

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After citing what every high school student mistakenly believes to be the world’s most authoritative dictionary — Webster’s — as to the definitions of “sin” and “parent,” Driskell used her idiosyncratic prose to remind the court of the fate that befell Sodom and Gomorrah, “two city because of the same immmoral behavior that present in Our Nation, in Out States, and Our Cities, God destroy them.”

“Why are judges passing laws so sinners can break religious and moral laws,” she asked sans punctuation. “Will all the judges of this Nation, judge God to be a lier [sic].”

Driskell’s entire handwritten lawsuit can be read here.

_________________________

Can't make this stuff up.