DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Johnny Manziel...continued

Manziel started last year because the Hoyer Experiment had run its course.

This is very true.. problem was.. Manziel was even worse than Hoyer after the experiment reached a negative conclusion.

Johnny is still being scrutinized 24/7. If he takes a drink, we will know it and we will know his rehab failed. If we know his rehab failed, there is little reason to think he can be any good this year. But if there is no sign of him being on the sauce, it means either he is drinking in the mancave of his suburban home (not what 22-year-olds do) or he has his nose to the grindstone. So far, so good.

OK, I'll concede that one to you. Your assertion is less conspiratorial than mine. I'm usually more inclined toward the simplest explanation for something being the better explanation. On that one I probably got caught up in the never-ending perception of ulterior motives and hidden agendas attributed to our FO, any Browns FO.

With that said, I still gave 4 or 5 other reasons I think are plausible explanations that choosing the starter will be made by the football people in the organization. For football reasons. I actually think Farmer and Pettine are more in tune with each other than at this time last year. This is not to say that they are out of tune with Haslam.

I think it's clear by the comments that have been made this off-season, that Manziel will only play if he is ready. Last year we had no other option other than to play Manziel (we had Shaw, but he was not really an option). If Manziel is not ready this year and McCown stinks it up, I'd expect to see Lewis out there.

I am one of Manziel's biggest fans but my big worry isnt his off the field stuff. It isnt his size. It isnt his perceived lack of speed for this level. It isnt even his ability to read a defense.

My worry is his throwing motion. I have never seen someone go from looking like a natural thrower to looking so robotic in such a short period of time. I will be honest, if you show me a tape of him throwing the ball at the end of the season, I would have said arena league backup. It was that bad. I thought he was the 2nd best natural thrower behind carr and had the best deep ball of any of the drafted QBs last year and his passes sucked.

I dont know if O'Connel and flip can fix this. I hope he can overcome it and I still believe he has it in him to be an NFL QB but at this point there are some major questions to be answered.

Browns' Karlos Dansby on Johnny Manziel: 'He's grown up right before our eyes'

Having rejoined his Cleveland Browns teammates after a two-month rehab stint, all indications are that Johnny Manziel is making some much-needed changes to his life off the field.

As a guest on "The Jim Rome Show" on Tuesday, veteran linebacker Karlos Dansby explained that the polarizing young quarterback has managed to grow up quite a bit since his disastrous rookie campaign.

"He's focused. He’s in here working, grinding every day," Dansby said. "And we're right along with him, like I said, we have his back, we never did turn our back on him.

"He just had to go through that learning curve, and he understands now what it takes, and I think he’s putting forth the effort. He's grown up right before our eyes."

Though Manziel still has plenty to prove if he's to win the starting job over veteran Josh McCown in training camp, Dansby's comments on the quarterback's apparent maturation are consistent with that of several other teammates in recent weeks.

If Manziel can indeed eliminate the off-field distractions that plagued him throughout his rookie year, he should have every opportunity to make the most of the potential that made him a first-round draft selection just one year ago, potentially providing a solution to the Browns' long-standing issues at the most important position on the field.

http://www.thescore.com/nfl/news/759606

Let's hope so......

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/cleve...hort_code=2xtey

looks like we may have our QB.

All of the reports from Cleveland Browns camp since quarterback Johnny Manziel returned from his two-month-long stay in rehab have been extremely positive.

A week after team captain Joe Thomas indicated that Manziel is “night and day from last year,” another veteran is speaking out on the quarterback’s behalf.

"He’s (Manziel) focused. He’s in here working, grinding every day. And we’re right along with him, like I said, ‘We have his back,’ we never did turn our back on him,” linebacker Karlos Dansby said on the "Jim Rome Show" Tuesday. “He just had to go through that learning curve, and he understands now what it takes, and I think he’s putting forth the effort. He’s grown up right before our eyes."

That’s some mighty high praise from a veteran of 11 NFL seasons.

It also appears that Manziel’s teammates fully supported his decision this offseason to seek treatment for his alcohol issues, which have seemingly dogged the quarterback since his days at Texas A&M.

There’s no questioning Manziel’s talent. He wouldn’t have earned the Heisman Trophy or been a first-round pick if there wasn’t considerable skill there. With what appears to be a renewed focus on the game of footbal -- and a different lifestyle off the field — the hope is that Manziel can live up to his status as a first-round pick.

The issue now becomes whether Manziel will continue to remain committed to the Browns and his team. As we have seen numerous times around the sports world, as well as in our own lives, addiction is an ugly monster. It’s now all about Manziel continuing to do what it appears he’s doing right now.
DENVER, CO - JANUARY 19: Peyton Manning #18 of the Denver Broncos runs off the field against the New England Patriots during the AFC Championship game at Sports Authority Field at Mile High on January 19, 2014 in Denver, Colorado. (Photo by Kevin C. Cox/Getty Images) MINNEAPOLIS, MN - DECEMBER 1: Adrian Peterson #28 of the Minnesota Vikings takes the field against Chicago Bears on December 1, 2013 at Mall of America Field at the Hubert Humphrey Metrodome in Minneapolis, Minnesota. (Photo by Adam Bettcher/Getty Images) CHICAGO, IL - DECEMBER 15: Jay Cutler #6 of the Chicago Bears on the field during pregame warm ups before a game against the New Orleans Saints at Soldier Field on December 15, 2014 in Chicago, Illinois. (Photo by Brian Kersey/Getty Images)
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And if the response from his teammates are any indication, the embattled quarterback is off to a good start.

"A great impression. A great impression,” said Dansby. “Because now we know it was something bigger than he can handle. It was bigger than him, and he figured that out. He made a decision to help him be a better man. And that’s all at the end of the day that’s all we want, we want him to be the best person he can possibly be, because him being the best he can possibly be is going to be the best player that the Browns can possibly have on the field.

The Browns seem to be committed to Josh McCown opening training camp as the team’s starting quarterback. However, progression from Manziel, both on and off the field, could sway a potential quarterback competition in his favor.

Talk to me on December 6th, instead of May 6th.

I dig the words Karlos is saying...

Now like clockwork, wHitner will make public comments. Although me personally, find these articles and etc about JF extremely positive, still I am not even close to have feel-good feelings regarding him and our poor Qb situation. The boat is moving in the right direction though and I think it's all we can ask and expect.

Johnny is going to wreck the league., break all the passing and TD records for not only the Browns but the NFL this season, throw for 5,500, pass for 60 TDs run for another 15 TDs, and take the Browns to a 56-3 Superbowl victory.

xactly. Being humble is easy when circumstances make you feel that way. But when you're on top of the world, you're vulnerable to those old patterns.

talk to me tomorrow because that is as far as he can go in his rehab by tomorrow...

we can be dismissive of the results thus far and require a show me 6 months from now atitude... but that cant be shown today and to disregard the seemingly progress he has made begs the question of when is enough, enough.

I understand skepticism, but when can we allow that to become guarded optimism and subsequently full support?

There's really two aspects. There's JFF and then there's Johnny Maziel. One is the man, the person, and the other is JFF the QB of the Browns.

Johnny Manziel the man has taken steps to make his life better and going in the right direction. I believe we all support him and hope for the best in his recovery from addiction.

What that doesn't do is answer any of the questions about JFF the QB. Only his play on the field can answer those questions.

I see that as two separate issues.

I've always pondered this as well. What if Manziel hadn't been put in the last two games last year? Would he have taken the steps he did in the off season? Put himself in rehab? Or would this process have been kicked down the road to this year. The season was pretty much over, I think Pettine thought Johnny needed a reality check and turned out to be the best thing for him. Maybe the humiliation really cut him deep and sparked the competitor deep down inside, being embarrassed like that some people can't wait to redeem themselves. Let's hope this is his case and a fire burns deep down inside him because I still think JM can be special if he says the course.

For some it will be when the Fat Lady sings. Oh, hark...

Knight,

That's what I'm hoping for too, but it begs the question... if that's what's happening with Manziel, how long until this kick in the butt wears off, and he needs another?

just have a hard time with a short, small, drug addict for the QB of the browns.

heck im still waiting for haden to do something stupid again.

once trust is lost it never comes all the way back.

This is the POT calling the KETTLE black...I've read quite a few of your posts after 20 to many!

IF (and it is a big if) Johnny Manziel comes out and lights it up this year, all will be forgiven and we will have our QB for many years to come.

While I'm not holding my breath until that outcome, I am holding out hope for that outcome. Obviously being a Browns fan my first instinct is to assume it will never happen.

That is a bleak prospect (having to start the 3rd QB) but I agree with you. A lot has to go very badly for the team to get to that point. Hope it doesn't happen but ride it out and find another alternative. Don't do anything desperate.

You sound like a realist when you say we should only expect Manziel will have progress in his recovery day by day.

You might be moving a bit fast to expect fans to invest full trust in him at this juncture. He'll have to go deep into the season to earn that.

That is a really great point, and a solid possibility.

I think that Pettine just hoped that Manziel was one of those guys who could use his natural talent to be a difference maker, but there may have been an aspect of what you suggest as well.

I would love it if Manziel turned things around and won the competition at QB to start this year. I would also love it if he proceeded to light up the scoreboard and prove himself worthy of Farmer picking him.

I may not like Johnny but while he is a Browns player I will root for him on the field.

If Johnny and Gilbert turn their careers around there isn't a whole lot the negative posters will have to say about either one of Farmers drafts ... although I know they will find something ...

We could go undefeated, get to and win the Superbowl, we could outscore our opponents by 40 points, Manziel could have 50 TD's and no INT's, Gilbert could intercept 10 and take a couple back for a Pick 6 and somehow, we'll hear about something like Manziel is still short and has a bad throwing motion

Well he was the first player i have ever seen on these boards criticized for running for TDs lol How dare he run when he could have thrown!

These two posts are just so much BS! We've sucked it up for years and you act like people find excuses to state the obvious.

Some wish for everybody to bury their heads in the sand and if they don't it's them that has the problem. Everyone on this board wants the Browns to be winners. It's just that some understand there's things that will need to be done to make it so while others walk blindly around pretending it isn't so.

Some people look backwards when judging picks, some look forwards. Neither one is necessarily right. Let's see how they do over the life of their first contract before judging draft classes. Being optimistic isn't burying your head in the sand. People are going overboard in both directions. Just because we've been bad doesn't mean we always will be. Not everything is as obvious as it seems.

How about we try to be open minded about the positive and negative posters, and try to see where they are coming from? In the end, we'll see the results on the field.

Very true! Being optimistic is just the way we roll; it doesn't mean we can predict the future any more accurately than others.

No team is perfect. Even a perfect season doesn't mean that every play was flawless; simply that you outscored the other guys. I believe everybody on here has some degree of optimism, of hope; some just express it more positively, that's all...

The thing is, I don't really knock people being highly positive in most cases. Now I have seen people go totally overboard defending things that I find to be ridiculous. But for the most part I say that people simply view things differently.

And I do understand what you mean about letting things play out. I've always said it takes three years to actually evaluate a draft class. However, on a message board, you generally speak about what is happening.

Even most of us who have grave misgivings about JFF certainly hope he turns out to be a great QB. I personally look at the odds of smaller QB's succeeding combined with the statistics of those who enter rehab for their first time relapsing to have what I believe are undeniable statistical evidence to be quite concerned. I don't believe that makes me negative but far more one who looks at the evidence to come to the most logical conclusion.

What I don't understand is those who are positive seemingly trying to poke fun at those who I believe have yet another viewpoint. I don't know of any real Browns fan who would be upset or complain if JFF led us to a SB.

Our team overall is not in a good place. We have not been winners in a long time. I believe it's quite understandable to realize why many fans are frustrated.

Truthfully Pit, I have not seen much of that. There is far more "aggression" flowing in the other direction however...

I agree with most of your post until you got to odds and statistics. You can manipulate numbers to say just about anything. How many small QBs have even been given a chance to succeed? The only small QBs that I can remember that have been drafted recently are Russell Wilson and Drew Brees. Both have been successful. If you can play QB, height doesn't matter as much as you'd think. Weeden had good measurables, but he couldn't find a throwing lane to save his life. Arm Strength, Accuracy, Compact Release, Ability to read defenses, Leadership/Moxie, Leg/Body Mechanics are what you have to have. Height is just a bonus.

Most people going to rehab the first time aren't in Johnny's situation. They aren't millionaires with hopefully an NFL team doing all it can to support them. The statistics sound impressive, but they don't take into account all the variables.

JFF could fail miserably, but it won't be because of those statistics. People aren't just numbers in boxes, each one is a unique situation.

A person per say is not a number. But vast amount of numbers over a very long period of time gives a strong indication. And while you have your points, there is also counterpoints.



Obviously this is a problem dating back to before he was 16 since his parents addressed it when he was 16. JFF has not only money, but huge pressure on his shoulders to succeed. So far in his life, JFF has only used one method for dealing with things, and that is alcohol at the very least.

Now that doesn't mean he will fail. But according to the logic you are using, he's had his parents, the staff at A&M and last year the Browns staff so far throughout his life thus far, and none of it has worked to date.

So as you see, there are points to be made in both directions. I believe if you look at athletes, movie stars and other famous people, addiction and its treatment shows no special favors. But you see, we are having a discussion with points attributed by both of us. Nobody is name calling. Nobody is saying we won't change our minds or thet we hope JFF fails.

That's the biggest difference.

I've seen it from both directions. I guess maybe I'm just tired of all the bickering and finger pointing. It seems everything has become black and white with no shades of gray on here more than usual.

I see problems with the team and FO and I point them out. I see positive things and point them out as well. I just believe there's a lot more gray area with this team than either black or white and I get frustrated by the two extremes I guess.