DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2015 NFL Season The NFL Draft 2015 Negative bash from Yahoo!

I've been saying this too.

I think if Josh McCown has the same running game we had last year early on, he can be just as successful as Hoyer was. Our defense should be stronger this year than it was last year as well. It'll be interesting to see what trumps what though in this equation because last year we had the luxury of playing the Saints, Titans, Raiders, Bucs and Falcons (five bad teams with bad defenses).

Brian Hoyer had some very nice moments last year, but he benefited greatly from our strong running game and our defense that kept the score manageable in most games. As the year went on, he seemed to regress. When their was no threat of a running game, he didn't have the arm or even the right mentality to carry the team on his back.

I'm not a fan of McCown.

I hope Johnny can play out of his mind in training camp and the preseason and wins the job, but I do think if McCown is our starter he can be just as successful as Hoyer was.

McCown reportedly had interest from several teams. Hoyer really didn't. The only team I can remember hearing him visit was the Texans.

If I remember correctly I think I saw on KFFL at one point that the Redskins and Rams were interested in making him a highly paid backup, while the Titans, Jets and Texans were all teams that showed some level of interest in having him come in and compete to start.

I remember seeing that these teams could have an interest ,..... but nothing more than that.

Running a Google search, there were articles that opined that the Jets could have an interest in Hoyer, but no visits that I can see. I read a lot of "could be", or "could have" an interest in him ...... but as far as I can tell, the Texans were the only team that actually had him in for a visit. I could be wrong, but running quick google searches on "Hoyer visits (team)" bring up nothing that says he visited anyone other than the Texans.

We know that McCown visited us, and the Bills. He also visited with the brain trusts of the Jets and Bears.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/browns...-visit-1.569526

The Browns have competition for McCown, 35. He also has met with the Buffalo Bills, Chicago Bears and New York Jets.

I just don't see anything that says that Hoyer visited anyone other than the Texans. I can see that "sources have inquired" about him, but that seems to be as far as it went.

Having McCown start for us will make me ALMOST as sad as watching Hoyer start for us. It can't get much worse than Hoyer though.

Manziel.

The "woe is me-ers?" That is a poor attempt at a childish insult.

I feel no woe. I am almost to the point where I could give a rat's butt what they do.

We go through this same crap almost every year, except for Mangini was here and when Banner was here. Every other year we gotta listen to the babblings of how good we are going to be and how dare anyone question that thought process.

LOL.........y'all have been right so many times.

Childish insult? I'm sorry if you felt that was directed at you. It was a generalization.

We've got people predicting 1-15 records, saying we have no QB, and stating Josh McCown is the worst QB ever. What should I call them, optimists? I get tired of typing pessimist and wanted to mix it up. Maybe I'll try DoomNGloomers next time.

I've never said we're going to be great. We've still got nothing proven at QB, but we can have a solid year with game manager type QB play with the rest of this team on paper. We haven't played a down of football and we're going one win all season?

I've never been this "high" on a Browns team going into a season, and have definitely never posted such here. This is the first time in my gut I feel like we're headed in the right direction and might actually stick with it.

I'm not offended by questions, but sick of the negative posts that show no hint of the thought process behind them. We're not picking on you, Vers. I wasn't even thinking of you in my group of "woe is me-ers". You're one of the more rational posters on here when talking football, but you get defensive/combative really quick. You're the one calling me directly childish. I just put a name to a poster-type that I thought other people would be able to understand what I meant.

Is there really a need to label?

Like grandpa always said, there are two kinds of people in this world, those who put people into groups and those who don't.

I always heard it this way:

If I want people to have any idea what I'm talking about, I'm afraid so. Unless we have mind readers on here, do we have mind readers on here?

Is there really a reason to drag this discussion further away from football?

Certain people are more negative about the draft/Browns than me. I'm fine with that.

Than don't call them negative names.

That came from you? You are the king of calling people out. Geesh............

Yes, me.

LOL. that's good.

Reminds me of Austin Powers in Goldmember - "There are two types of people I hate: those who are intolerant of other people's cultures... and the Dutch"

Author Andy Behrens has written three young adult novels: The Fast and the Furriest, All the Way, and Beauty and the Bully. That tells us all we need to know about Mr Behrens other than he is nothing but a blogger who writes crappy novels.

My dad always said:

"there are two kinds of asses in the world... try and be the smart one"

Oh sure you wait till I have mastered the art of being the dumb one then you tell me this

Perhaps the first thing you should do is quote the writer correctly!

Here is what he actually wrote:



Big difference from what you wrote. And given that he wrote it that way, he was totally incorrect. We didn't need help "Just about" everywhere. We are actually in pretty good shape on D. In fact, it might be said that we are in excellent shape on D.

We lack a clear #1 receiver and a clear #1 QB. That will need to get resolved, But I doubt it will this year.

Our RB situation is wonderful. Having the two guys that did a pretty darn good job last year and adding in another guy that has pretty strong potential is a good thing.

Of course, they have challenges on how best to use them, but that's why they make the big bucks. They need to figure that out. I'm confident that this is a very good problem to have.

If you quote the writer, perhaps you should quote them accurately before calling out other posters. Just a thought.

That is a great theory the problem is it is much more wishful thinking then reality.

McCown at 36 would have to become something he has never been.

Johnny is such an unknown, and if he could just be average that in and of itself would be a minor miracle after what we all saw last year.

Pile on top of that this defense was dead last in the league against the run they didn't play well at all at times last year but did close out the season strong.

The offense we run won't work or get us more wins without a average QB, but we don't have anything on this team that says average. McCown had one stretch in his 11 year career when he played well other then that he has been very underwhelming.

IMO there is TOO much wishful thinking based on one of our QB's morphing themselves into an average QB.

I see 2-14 coming like a freight train, and praying or hoping won't change it.

Nothing to be sure is impossible, but the probability remains that both QB's or all the QB's we have will be who they have shown themselves to be very below average, and without them being able to be productive it will have a huge impact on the run game.

Bottom line is wishing it away isn't going to fix it. Probility says we get wipped good.

If you replaced probability with I think, I could just nod my head and say I see where you are coming from.

What numbers are you using, where are they coming from, what variables are you including? While QBs affect everyone else the most, they are also the most affected by everyone around them. McCown was in a lousy situation last year: New team so little chemistry, lost his offensive coordinator, his oline looked as bad as ours at the end of the season for the entire season, his top RB had under 500 yards and only 2 TDs, and a bottom of the barrel defense.

For that stretch in Chicago, McCown was at least an average QB. He wouldn't have to morph, just play within himself and not take chances.

Our run D was last in the league last year, but look at all the injuries we had in the defensive front seven. We were signing guys off the street to play significant minutes. Hughes got hurt, Taylor got hurt, Armonty got hurt, the other Bryant was banged up all year, Rubin was banged up, Mingo played with one arm. We added Shelton and Starks. Not that many things should go wrong this year, and we'll be year two in the system.

As far as our offense not working, how do you know what offense we're running? We're keeping the same language and some of the things that worked last year. Other than that I'm not sure how similar it will be.

You talk about probability, but to me it's really a lot of guess work. Yours is as good as mine, but they are still just guesses.

For those predicting 1-15 or 2-14 etc, be honest....what did you predict last year?

I guess I'm being optimistic in that to me I think we are in better shape this year then we were last year...on paper granted but I think as a whole we are moving in the right direction. There was no QB that I saw that would have been available to us that would have made a difference this year IMO. Looking everywhere else though I think we are better.

Over the past 16 years I've been far more accurate than anyone who consistently predicted a winning record each season.

I predicted a five win season last year. Actually I believed we could win between 4 to 6 games. While we have better talent we are playing a tougher schedule this year BY FAR. So I plan to stick with that 4-6 game win prediction.

The schedule looks tougher on paper based on last years results. How it plays out this year is anyone's guess.

I don't believe the guess is all that tough.

Of course this is all guesswork and opinion. We don't know who will be on the roster, who may be hurt, how well the rookies will adapt to the next level, etc. Discussions on this topic are intended to be speculative. That's the whole purpose...to exchange diverse opinions on our team!

That's what some people don't understand. Last years results do not NECESSARILY translate to this year's games.

What does an injury to Brady - or a suspension for him - due to the patriots? Same with Rodgers in GB.

Take out a linemen from many teams - what's that do to their offense?

How about an injury - or PED suspension for Haden - what's that do to the Browns.

Heck, our running game last year - Crowell and West did much better than any team would've thought at the beginning of the year.

Each year there are so many variables. For each and every team.

Good point.

People looked at our schedule last year, and saw the AFCS, with the Saints, Falcons, Panthers and Bucs, and thought that this would be a tough division for us to play against.

In 2013, the Saints went 11-5. The Panthers went 12-4. The Falcons and Bucs went 4-12 each, but the Bucs appeared ready to take a huge step forward, and the Falcons faced a lot of injuries in 2013. They were 13-3 the year before, but in 2013 had injuries to much of their offense, including watching their receivers corps decimated by injury.

We went 3-1 against the NFCS in 2014. You just never know.

And shortly after I posted that, I read about Dante Fowler. Don't know the extent of his injury yet..

On PAPER, we are improved in many areas. (I still don't think we're improved at qb, but....)

On PAPER, EVERY team thinks they are improved.

Paper don't play on Sundays.

Obviously injuries always play into things, for good or for ill.

Sometimes a player gets hurt, and the position collapses. Other times, a different player steps up, and sometimes even exceeds the level of play of the player who got hurt.

Ol' Thaddy-Lew might net a meaningless December win as well.

I'd take Manziel over Hoyer any day of the week.

Last year? Or going forward, this year?

Wait, Hoyer's not here this year. So, last year you would've taken the unprepared "I'll do it with my athleticism" John over Hoyer?

This years John might be 100% better. Know what? We don't know.

I agree with Pit's prediction of 4-6 wins, and will be happy if they exceed that. (I think the 7 games we won last year was an over achievement.) That is based on below average QB play. I think the team is better overall, but QB is the limiting factor. I think our best hope is that JFF wins the QB job and plays as an NFL average QB. If that happens, we could win 7-9 games.

Hoyer has a weak arm. His strength is he's a leader. When he had confidence, he could rally the team to overcome adversity. But how many of his passes, especially down field, were weak? I remember Hawkins stumbling and falling trying to adjust on that pass that set up the winning field goal against NO. A good pass would have been a touchdown. A lot of his passes were like that.

Manziel has an arm. If he can play in the pocket without running at the first sign of trouble, combined with the running game we have set up, his playing at an NFL average level will be an improvement over Hoyer's talent. The question is, can he be the leader Hoyer was?

That's where McCown's tutelage comes in. As BTTB rightly points out, McCown has never shown much talent, but that doesn't mean he doesn't know how to lead and how pass that knowledge on. Throughout sports, some of the best teachers and coaches have been guys who didn't have natural talent, but had to learn how out-play their lack of talent. The guys who are naturally good never had to learn, and therefor don't know how to teach what has always come naturally to them. What McCown can teach JFF is how to lead.

Wow! You never cease to amaze me. I'll leave it at that.

We went 7-9 against another weak schedule and a weak NFC South.
Not that easy this year, and with absolutely NO QB = 0-16.

Yeah, I am not buying this rhetoric of "you never know" about how good the teams will be.

Yes, some teams will rise and some will fall, but there is no comparison between the two NFC divisions in question.

Unless JM is a completely different player, this is going to be a tough year for the Browns. Teams will stack the LOS because we don't have a WR or TE that will scare anyone and our qb will probably be the worst---or amongst the worst---starter in the league.

The running game won't work w/that combo.

Additionally, the odds of our OC and QB coach being better than last year's duo is slim and none.

Oh wait..........now get all indignant guys and tell me how stupid I am and that I am just a "woe is me" poster.

j/c This board used to have some good football talk. Now, the "experts" always call others out. Weird.