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Though the statement is not found verbatim in the Bible, “idle hands are the devil’s workshop” has its roots in Scripture. The apostle Paul notes that those who waste their time in idleness or in a non-productive manner are easily led into sin: “We hear that some among you are idle. They are not busy; they are busybodies” (2 Thessalonians 3:11). By not using their time productively, these people were tempted to meddle in other people’s business and stand in the way of their progress. “They get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. And not only do they become idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying things they ought not to” (1 Timothy 5:13). These idlers and busybodies were wasting time that could have been used to help others. In essence, their lack of activity was leading them into sin.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/idle-hands-devils-workshop.html#ixzz3ZV5v5XyI

I would ask any of you, "Should a man's word/vow be his bond?"

If a person makes a public oath and then breaks that oath should they not be punished for it?

In the military it is possible for you to get the death penalty for breaking an oath.

A person in public office who breaks their oath of service can face severe penalties and even prison for breaking their oath.

Cooperations can have you sign a legally binding contract, which is, the same as an oath and utterly destroy you if you break it.

Yet, if a man and woman who make a public oath to be married, start a family, and have kids want to break their very public oath then we say that its ok.

To me, this says that the government and businesses are more important than people because society makes them enforce their oaths.

To me, if a husband or wife breaks their public vows of marriage then they should be severely punished. Our vows, our sense of honor, and the integrity of the family unit should be protected.

Obviously if you think being a liar is ok then you will never agree with me. I was raised to believe and behave in a way to where my promises are absolute. "Thou shalt not lie."

I think the letter of what you're saying is accurate but often the interpretation is that anyone who leaves a marriage needs to be punished for it. And oftentimes people are punished for it, but sometimes undeserved.

The punishment is often twofold. Firstly is the matter of economics, where the assets must be split up. Today most states have no-fault divorces, so if the wife cheats on the husband or vice versa they must still split the assets 50/50 regardless of who earned what. The second is the court of public opinion. Even if a wife's husband beats her every day, some people will still find her to have committed a sin to divorce her abusive husband. But I like to think today that most people will be happy the wife was able to leave the situation.

So if you are already punished by economics and the court of public opinion, what punishment from the state are we missing? Should a married couple be jailed for filing divorce? They are already being fined if you consider the cost of attorney and court costs.

There are many verses in the Bible that are somewhat open to interpretation in the Bible, and others that are as plain as day. Some of the use of the word "adultery", in the Old Testament, refer to those who essentially "go whoring" after other gods.

In the New Testament, though, Jesus clearly outlines the limits for people, in that "merely" lusting after another (and coveting them, in some translations) is adultery.

Jesus also clearly affirms that marriage is in accord with God's original plan for man, and is the union of one man to one woman, becoming one flesh together. Jesus does not do a lot of individual condemnation in the Bible. There is some, but not much.

So what does Jesus do? He affirms God's Law, and then fulfills it. He kept the Laws of God perfectly. He also kept Jewish Law perfectly, though he did reject the interpretation of certain Laws. (like healing on the Sabbath, which would actually be impossible if it violated God's will, since healing comes from God Himself) One thing Jesus never did, in any verse or chapter of the Bible, is make a single approving remark in support of homosexuality. (and such was rampant throughout the Greek world especially, and would have to be known to those living in the area) Roman worship of their gods also included rampant sexual activity. Many of these were homosexual in nature.

Jesus spoke in support of marriage, and affirmed that it was between a man and a woman. If He felt differently, then would not He have said so? He was not afraid to stir the pot, so to speak. If we believe that Jesus is the Son of God, and is God who took human form to come and teach us, and to be a perfect sacrifice for us, and if we believe that the Bible is God's Word, then why do we not look to the Bible for what it tells us?

Not once in the Bible did Jesus speak approvingly of homosexuality, not did he ever mix homosexuality into the marriage equation. Homosexuality was rampant in the religious practices of other nations. (especially the Greeks and Romans) If Jesus approved of homosexuality, just not in these religious practices, wouldn't He have said so? Wouldn't Paul have said "Being a part of a committed loving homosexual couple is fine" when he condemned homosexuality in some religious practices? There was a lot of homosexuality in the area at that time, and if we believe the Bible, then Jesus knew that His message was going to go to the Gentiles as well as the Jewish, and the Gentiles in the area at that time often used sex as part of their religious ceremonies. Wouldn't He have made some distinction, at some point? I don't mean a fuzzy distinction, but a crystal clear, "Homosexuality is OK as long as it is within a committed couple, and not part of a pagan ritual." That never happens.

I am studying my Bible, because there is a lot I do not know. I am up to Ezra in the Old testament. I was going to start in the New Testament, but I found that I wanted the background of the Old Testament to add depth to many of the practices and customs in the time of Jesus and beyond.

I do not want to condemn anyone. I am not the judge. What I do want to do is to urge people to read their own Bibles, all the way through, and see what God says to us.

The way I see things, homosexuality is outside of God's plan, and I can find no verses that support such a lifestyle as being part of God's plan. As I said earlier, if God approved of such, I would think that somewhere in the Bible such a lifestyle would be mentioned as acceptable to God. However, I cannot find any such verse. If anyone else can, I am more than willing to consider it. I am certainly willing to learn. Some mention Paul, in Acts, speaking of those who added Greek homosexual practices to their Christian ceremonies and condemning such things as sinful and that those who do so should be thrown out of the church, and say that because Paul never mentions a committed homosexual couple, that he somehow excludes them. I have to disagree, because I cannot find anything in the Bible to support such a position. The Bible speaks of adultery being a sin, usually mentioned as a man cheating on his spouse, (or visa versa) but that does not mean that a single person having sex outside of marriage is somehow excluded from the condemnation of adultery.

Anyway, I appreciate the discussion. It is a difficult debate, and frankly, I think that it gets overwrought, because homosexual acts, according to what I can find in the Bible, are a sin, but they are one sin among so many others that man (and woman) commit. However, I do not feel that we should, as Christians, support that which the Bible tells us not to support. These include sex outside of marriage, divorce, premarital sex, and other sexual sins, not to mention the multitude of sins we all commit that have no sexual basis at all. Homosexuality gets thrown into its own category, and that is wrong .... except that those who are in favor of homosexuality are pushing an agenda that says that such in moral, right, natural, and so on. The Bible disagrees, as far as I can tell. Again, if anyone can find a verse that says that such an act is according to God's plan, then I will be more than happy to consider it as part of my understanding of the Word. No one has really done so as yet, though.

Do you feel that reading, studying, and discussing the Bible falls into this category?

Do you feel that Biblical discussion does not help others?

Do you feel that only physical actions can be "helpful" to other people?

What a joke. Divorce these days has no punishment involved at all. I mean it's great. Just spend money and honoring an oath taken in public has no meaning. People have virtually no incentive to struggle through the hard times because people are just honorless dogs anymore these days.

It's like hey lets just get married and if it dont work we can just get a divorce anyways. Hell why have marriage anyways when people are going to treat is as something disposable.

You mention a Husband beating his wife. One, it's a criminal offense and he can just be put in jail for assault and battery. Then again in my family if a man hits a woman we will take care of him ourselves Two, it also breaks his vows which should be further punished.

Violating your wedding vows should be a criminal offense with jail time at the least. A person should fear the consequences of breaking their vows and destroying the lives of their family and causing so much suffering. My God, the pain children have to go through because these freaking idiots can't keep their pants on except with their spouse is criminal.

It's sad that families and marriages are valued so little in this country. I'll say it over and over again. When you destroy families, you destroy America. There is always someone at fault when there is a divorce and they should be treated as a criminal for it, not given a pat on the back.

Bad marriage and divorce rank among the highest toxic stressors.

I'm not sure the majority feel as though they've received a pat on the back.

I'm also not sure they should be called "honorless dogs".

I think bad marriages start before the wedding and focusing on that would be more productive than damning the current results.

Yeah, lets put them in jail! What a joke. Divorce is already hard enough on kids, so lets go ahead and throw one or both of the parents in jail. Or better yet, lets just stone those criminals!

I am one of those bad, horrible, "honorless" scumbags that is divorced (actually a disillusion as we were able to agree how to split everything amicably). We tried for over 2 years to make it work and it just wasn't going to. The stress of those two years was awful - we went to many counseling sessions and retreats but nothing worked. It was hard on my son at first (who was 6 at the time, 12 now) but he well adjusted now, gets great grades at school and plays soccer, baseball, and races go carts - of which both his mom and I attend (and even sit together as friends). My ex and I get along great, have 50/50 shared parenting (every other week he is at my house), keep things very consistent between the households for our son and we are both much, much happier. Sometimes things don't work out no matter how hard you try - we were married for 10 years and knew each other for 14. I am sad it didn't work but I am over it and in a better place now.

I'm sure that if you ask anyone on here that has actually met me in person that I am far from an "honorless" person as you can get. Blanket statements like that are just silly.

I have noticed in todays society that young men see marriage as something to be avoided. They have seen the horrors of a man being married with kids and a good life having it all torn away by the wife's lawyers and the Courts.
You lose your assets, your wife, your children and the courts order you to pay support for the kids which the wife and her new boyfriend use to buy alcohol for themselves. Now, living on your own, if you ever fall behind on those payments the court will jail you and away goes your job.
Your reward in the end is having some stranger being called daddy by your own kids.
I myself have seen this scenario far too many times.

Marriage is under attack from many directions.

I think there are concerns for both men and women.

I think it would probably be a better strategy to avoid marriage as long as possible. Be sure both are ready and compatible.

Nope.






If you are talking about what you are doing on this message board all day, not a chance.






From your questions to my post, I would guess you totally missed my point in posting it, but that does not surprise me.

Pretty much. My wife and I dated for 5 years before getting married. We got to be really good friends as part of it and it's really helped us though the stresses of life. We'll never say that we are perfect, but dang it it's awesome hanging out with my best friend everyday.

If the Bible wasn't open to interpretation you're right, people wouldn't be having these discussions

The most common recited verse regarding homosexuality being a sin is of course Leviticus 20:23



An abomination! Wow! That's definitely some strong language today. Most of us would consider an abomination to be some pretty evil stuff. Deuteronomy 22:5 also mentions abomination:



Hmm. Doesn't seem so severe... My Baptist Church in Cleveland used this verse to support that women are not to wear pants though.

Other verses that use abomination include dietary restrictions, stealing, idolatry, and child sacrifice. Quite a range here to include child sacrifice and women wearing pants. And I don't know any Christians who obey the dietary restrictions of the old testament, abomination or not.

The words used to translate abomination in the day that Moses would have written the first 5 books did not consider these actions as grave consequence but rather as taboo. Either way, if we are to be held to this restrictions today I think alot of Christians need to adjust their diet

I didn't realize divorce was so rampant in the Christian community. The secular community? Who cares? You? According to the Christian Belief secular people are so deep in sin that they don't even know their sinning most of the time, so what is a broken oath or two? So instead of going "what a joke" maybe you should work on your outreach?



So your fix for children going through pain is to give them more pain by flushing them through child protective services. GOOD PLAN.

Many of the kids I went to Christian School with got married within 6 months of high school so they could finally "get laid" legally with God. Great reason to get married! Then they are shocked to realize that the real purpose of marriage doesn't work for them and boom, stuck in a terrible marriage. But all in Gods plan right?

If a kid comes from a divorced family and decides to wait until the right time to get married, why is this a bad thing??? They understand the human cost that can arise from making a poor decision on what is likely the single most important decision OF YOUR LIFE. And we expect people to make this decision when they are 18-20 years old? Good luck!

Well, I am sorry you feel that way.

I disagree with your conclusions though. Frankly, I hardly do anything "all day". I had stayed out of these discussions for a fair amount of time, because I was beating my head against the wall and felt that I was getting nowhere. However, when I read things over and over again, that I wholeheartedly disagree with, then I am going to speak out sooner or later. (just like anyone else would) Still further yet, if you feel that I have made a mistake Biblically on something, then by all means, please point it out and let's discuss it.



Well, if you feel that I am not getting whatever you are trying to communicate, then by all means, elucidate and expand upon your views.

My participation in this thread started when people called me "intolerant" for feeling that the callous murder of unborn children is not acceptable. I am sorry if I do not want to be "tolerant" if the price of that tolerance is accepting the destruction of the lives of millions of unborn children, heartlessly destroyed by their mothers. That is where it started. I did not turn this discussion in any direction from there. I made my points, and moved on.

I was content to skim over this, and other threads, and stay out. My head hurts less skipping over many of the justifications for things we as a society allow, and my heart hurts less not reading the ways that so many seek to justify horrific acts like abortion. We laugh at primitive civilizations who sacrificed their children to a variety of gods, slicing their throats or throwing them into volcanoes, and may even even recoil with horror at the thought, yet we are perfectly fine with accepting that we should do the same today as a matter of convenience.

Yes, that makes me very sad. I wonder what Jesus will say to some of those mothers when they face Him on Judgment Day? I wonder what they will say to Him? I also wonder what they will say to those children?

I make no apologies for my position on abortion. I find it to be a disgusting practice.

I see people getting into marriages in a relatively short time period, not knowing much of anything about their spouse, (except sexually, which most couples today know everything about their spouses these days before they get married) and without the intention of making a life long commitment, contrary to what the Bible teaches. I look at people I know who have strong, decades long marriages, and the differences between them and the people who cheat, and who dump their marriage in a short period of time, as I can see, are that they have decided that they are married, and have made a commitment to be married for the rest of their lives, and that they accept that there will be ups and downs, and that they will have to work through those tough times together. I have so much respect for GM and other people I know personally, (and also those I only know through the board) who have marriages that have not only lasted for decades, but seem as if they have actually grown stronger and stronger throughout the years. I use GM as an example, because I know him and his wife, and especially because I saw how his wife was with him during a major medical crisis.

I was wrong with the way I looked at relationships for a long time. I used relationships as disposable things, and as a means to get other things that I wanted. KI was wrong.

Those are 2 of the issues I have written about lately on the board, and the only other one is the one that you are truly most concerned about, and let's be honest here .... if I had written one time "I do not believe that the Bible says that homosexual sex is acceptable before God", and then left the thread forever, you would be just as indignant and offended as if I had said it a thousand times.

I will never accept that this is an acceptable practice before God until someone can show me a Biblical basis for that position, that counteracts the Biblical verses that say that marriage is one man and one woman, and that homosexuality is wrong. I have yet to have anyone bring forth such a verse, though some point to Paul's letters to Corinth. Now I do believe that Paul was more concerned with sex and prostitution in the religious ceremonies in that area which had found their way into the Christian ceremonies there. but that does not mean that he approved of homosexuality. Jesus was never afraid to buck convention. This is the man (God in human form) who healed on the Sabbath, argued against Jewish religious laws, (but not God's Laws) and called the religious leaders "a brood of vipers", and other complimentary terms. Homosexuality was far from unknown in that area of the world, in that time. However, there are no verses of the Bible that say "The practices of these temples, using casual homosexuality in their ceremonies, run contrary to God's plan of one man and one man, committed for life in a sexual relationship, or one woman and one woman joined together fr life in a sexual relationship." There is nothing that even approaches that level. In fact, I know of not a single Biblical verse that speaks approvingly of homosexuality. Perhaps you do. If you do, then please share them with me, as I would prefer to do as God wants me to do.

Jules, I do not debate these things because I am trying to talk you and Michelle out of your relationship. You have to decide what is right for you, and no one else can decide that for you. I have never once argued that you should be pout to death for your relationship, or anything even approaching it. What I have argued is that we should not completely change the meaning of marriage, and that is what really offends you. You want everyone to say "Gee, it's wonderful that homosexuality is so freely practiced in today's world and that everyone accepts it as moral, even before God. I cannot agree with that position though. I can, and do defend your right to do with your life as you see fit, but not to change the meaning of marriage to become something it never was before. I accept your right to whatever kind of relationship you wish to have with another adult, but not to put words into God's mouth, pretending that the Bible somehow accepts and approves of a homosexual marriage as being good in God's eyes. I disagree with that opinion. I also disagree with the way that this opinion s being disseminated to the younger people, that the Bible must approve of this ...... when as far as I can tell, it does not.

We are sending people down the primrose path, and most do not care to ever read their own Bibles, and read what it actually says. They form their own opinions ..... "Oh, premarital sex is fine, because I am a Christian". Well, what makes you a Christian?" "Why, because I believe in Jesus Christ, of course".

I believe that Hitler existed, but I am not a Nazi. I believe that Caesar existed, but I am not a Roman. Being a Christian means more than merely believing that Jesus existed. I believe that it means accepting Him as Lord and Savior, and turning our lives over to Him. It means following Him as best we can. It does not mean rubbing his nose in our sins, simply because He forgives our sins. It does not mean saying "I am forgiven" while deciding to go our drinking, and trying to pick up someone in the bar for sex 2 or 3 times/week when not in a relationship. I was guilty of that. Sex was more important to me than any other aspect of a relationship.

That was wrong. I was wrong.

We all carry within us sin. Sin makes up who we are, as far as our earthly presence. Some of us have a proclivity to sin as I did. Some have a tendency towards violence, and need God's help to control that. many today indulge in porn on a daily basis, and cannot get out in any other way than through God's help. The list goes on and on. We are all in sin. We all do things that are "natural" to us, but that go against the Bible. We cannot change God to meet what we want, we have to change what we want, with God's help, to meet what He wants. We cannot use the idea that we are, somehow "one way" deep inside, in our natural state, as a defense for anything else. A mnan cannot say that his natural state is towards violence, and thus killing someone in an argument is "only natural" for him. A child molester cannot claim that because he has deeply embedded urges for sex with children, that he should not be guilty of a sin, or crime, when he acts on those urges. We do not legally accept such behavior because "that is how they are". God will not excuse that behavior because it is "who they are". God knows we are all in sin, and he has also given us a path out of sin. He has given us Jesus Christ.

I believe that homosexuality is a sin, but it is not worse than any worse a sin than any other. The Bible says that all sin is offensive to God. However, when the subject being debated is homosexuality, then yes, I will say that this is a sin according to the Bible, just as I would, and have regarding abortion, divorce, and so on. You have every right to disagree.

I hope that you have a great day.

People want to use the ceremonial laws of that time as part of the Covenant of God. However, just as sacrificing animals was done away with, so were these ceremonial laws.

Jesus affirmed the 10 Commandments. He did not affirm the ceremonial laws regarding foods we can eat, and other such ceremonial laws. In fact, these laws were specifically ended in the New Testament.

I agree; he said of such commandments in Matthew and it is pretty clear he meant the commandments as Moses was given.

I just wonder why the cherry picking of homosexuality in the Christian faith. If ceremonial laws such as the food we eat was done away with, and abominations such as women not wearing pants was done away with, why are christians still holding to the view that homosexuality is an abomination? It feels like cherry picking to me.

The best verses in the New Testament regarding the status of homosexuality is ostensibly Romans 1:26-27, but even it can be taken in many different ways. Also, in 2nd Peter Chapter 3, readers are warned against mis-interpretation of Pauls epistle's (To the Romans or otherwise). Paul's writing style is not known to be very direct, and his letters to the Romans and others can be very confusing to read. Yet man on earth claims to know easily the intent of what Paul wrote.

Because it is the new moral issue of our times. Abortion has claimed the lives of 50+ million Americans so that war is lost. We continue to battle but it is lost. We still have an opportunity to speak against the sin of men having sex with each other but we will probably lose that moral issue also.
Society today bases everything on how they "feel", not long ago our society based things more on what was best for all of us and our Nation and families as a whole.

You'll have that when people feel their religious beliefs should be considered as a reason for legal decisions.

Romans 12:2 plainly tells us to be not of this world. To be different in what we know to be true.

What each of us do in our own life is the important thing. Not to try to change this world into what we believe.

I don't see it as cherry picking. It is an issue only because some people want to make homosexuality not only acceptable from a legal aspect, but also to tell people that it is right even from a Biblical standard, even in the absence of evidence to support such an assertion. Jesus reiterated what marriage is during His ministry. He never once said an approving word regarding homosexuality, and rather did, in fact, refer to "God's plan" when discussing marriage. If marriage is one man to one woman, as Jesus says, and sex outside of marriage is adultery and not acceptable, then homosexuality cannot be acceptable to God. How could it be? In what way? In what way does it work where it would be right to God?

God's plan = 1 man and 1 woman joined in marriage.

Adultery = violating the covenant of marriage by having sex outside of the bonds of marriage, having sex with a partner other than your spouse. (basically coveting someone unavailable to you through either the desire for someone, or the sex act itself)

If the Bible says the 1st is true, which I believe it does. and if the Bible says the second is true, which I also believe it does, then how do we get to a 3rd true statement that says that God approves of homosexual sex acts? I see no way for these 3 to all be true.

Further, there is nowhere in the Bible, anywhere that I can think of anyway, where homosexuality is accepted or approved of. Can you think of any such instances/examples?

I agree that Paul's writing style is difficult at times, in that he wrote specifically to certain people according to who there were. He treated different people differently, based on their environments, and histories. However, even without Paul's words. I can find no examples in which homosexuality is accepted by God in any time, way, shape, or form in the Bible.

I will look forward to whatever you can add, and if you can add a Biblical example where this happens, I will be happen to look at it. If not, then I will allow you to have the final word for now, if you so choose.

I will remember your instructions the next time someone is about to jump off a bridge.

why should something be banned because of religions if i'm not religious?

if i'm not religious, i shouldn't be subjugated to YOUR christian standards. I'm not christian. this isn't a christian country.

And 40, classic dodging of the question, gonna ask you and others AGAIN.

if marriage is a religious things, then why is my marriage valid if i'm NOT religious and got married in the court house?

you and YTown absolutely cherry pick. constantly.

Gay marriage should be federally legal. it doesn't infringe on anybody's rights.

once again, if you don't support the right of two consenting adults to live happily, then you should be ok with them NOT paying taxes in this country anymore, as you refuse to grant them the same civil liberties as the atheist you seem to be ok with getting married.

I think Clem said it best several replies back - if the diverse cross-section of posters on this sight (religious, non-religious, liberal, conservative, independent, etc) that rarely see eye to eye on political topics can all come together in agreement that this should be legalized it is time to do so.

Yes swish, I shall pick up a new tux today for attending future Homosexual and Polygamist and Cannibal and goat slaughtering, animal burning weddings in Your America's future!

Raise your kids in that s...

Only in progressive America will the authorities take the children away from a Father and Mother who allow their kids to walk home from the bus stop while never lifting an eye to the little adopted boys and girls sleeping in the next room while two men are banging the headboard off the wall.

Morals are for dopes, right?

I was going to talk at length about various marriage related stuff about polygamy in the Bible and its tangential relationship to what we are talking about, but I think for now I will not.

What I will say is that the strongest evidence I can find that Evangelical Christians are treating homosexuals incorrectly is John 13:33-35



Approval is not required. You are not required to approve of someones behavior. But Christians must love one another. And they must answer to God if it is considered to love a homosexual or transgender person by wanting to pass laws that discriminate and infringe upon their behavior.

You won't find me disagreeing with you that CPS these days is a far overreaching organization, but we can thank helicopter parenting for alot of this.

Side Note: I once had interviewed a programmer, and their mother called me later to say her boy really was good and deserved the job. Needless to say I did not extend an offer

As for the morality of homosexuality, it is clear in nature to not be immoral. It has been observed in over 1500 species of animal. Modern scientific data supports that most homosexuals are just wired that way. At *BEST* you could call it a genetic deficiency but then you'd be saying people with Down syndrome are also immoral for not having the common courtesy to be "normal."

I like redheads and girls with freckles. Some guys HATE gingers. Some girls like buff guys and other girls like guys with a bit of a paunch or dad body. We can't explain our preferences beyond simply saying it's what we like. Homosexuality is the same thing.

I'm never offended by ignorance or people who I don't respect, so no worries there.

I am simply amazed by your obsession over this one "sin". You'll argue that, as usual, but actions speak louder than words. I posted what I did to bring up another subject that is discussed in The Bible, to see if you might just recognize yourself in it, clearly you don't. Most people are blind to their own sins while gleefully pointing out what they believe to be sinful in others. Rationalization is a wonderful thing, have fun with it. Although, if you do some reflection in an honest way, you might just gain a little clarity.

I'm having a great day, thanks. The California weather is beautiful today. I'm blessed in many ways!

Glad to hear you're doing well Jules!

88 here, and enough breeze to keep it comfortable. Beautiful sky......grass is green as green can be.......pretty darn nice here as well.

I'm not christian. this isn't a christian country.

Wow...are you Obama?


Although I agree with your premise of gay marriage and freedom without interference from others, your statement of this isn't a christian country will require documentation. Your opinion does not cut it. And, just because the man who supposedly leads this country said it does not make it so.

I'm starting to believe i'm the only one who pays attention in history and government class.

please, name the official religion of the United States. Don't worry, i'll wait.

I absolutely agree that we should love one another, but loving someone does not mean approving of everything they want to do.

As a parent if they love their child, and then ask them if they automatically approve and allow everything they want to do. My guess is that they almost certainly do not. Love does not mean giving into whatever someone wants.

Jesus showed love to the adulterous woman, and after saving her life told her to go and sin no more. He didn't say go, you are forgiven, and may do whatever you want to do from here on.

Sorry, I was going to allow you the final word, but felt that I had to answer that.

We have NO official religion. And that's fine, and as it should be.

Of religious preference, I do believe the country is, as a majority, Christian. Now, to what level of Christianity, I don't know. Neither do you, or anyone else know. I do believe the majority of religious people profess Christianity as their religion.

Maybe I'm wrong?

this post is absolutely hilarious. I actually made an audible laugh.

first, nobody said anything about those authorities taking away kids, which has nothing to do with this topic, BTW.

second, that you think there's not straight couples banging in the next room where their kids are at leads me to believe that you're a virgin, and has never actually been in a relationship, as only the most ignorant and inexperienced of people would ever make that statement. that being said, surprised you haven't been nominated to be the next pope, as you have clearly be celebrant your entire life.

third, so since you have an issue with gay couples having kids, whats your reasoning behind straight couples with gay kids? doesn't it go both ways? does that mean God made a mistake?

oh yea...you're a hypocrite. don't worry about answering that.

and you haven't answered the question. Why are you ok with atheist getting married if marriage is suppose to be a religious thing?

the majority of people identify as christians in this country.

and thats fine.

but just because the majority are christians, doesn't make us a christian nation. or any religious nation.

there's a lot of porn stars that identify as christians. huh.......but porn is still legal in this country even though we're a nation of christians.

that was the point to Cjrae, We have no official religion. we will never have one. as it should be. and laws shouldn't be reflecting christian morals if we don't have an official religion.

I disagree but only because I don't think this came across the way you meant it. We are, in fact, called to try to change this world into what we believe... but we are called to do it by changing the hearts and minds of individuals, not by creating mandates and legislation that force people to live as we believe.

I'll go with that.

Like I said - the majority of people identify as Christians - BUT, to what extent?

And no, I don't want there to be an "official" religion. And, just as I don't want MY beliefs to taint or take away from yours (or whoevers), I certainly don't want Islamic laws taking over the country as well. Or Budhism (aren't Budhists the ones that treat cows as sacred and you can't eat them?)

Hindu.

and i agree. as long as my rights aren't being infringed on, i don't care what you do with your life.

and gay marriage infringes on this many peoples rights: none.

Agreed - and that appears to be a fine line.

Yes, Christians are called to spread the word....but how it's done or attempted is what may/can/does put them as "forcing" their way on others.