DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Deflategate- Wells report finds Pats employees probably deflated balls vs. Colts

The punishment needs to be severe enough a deterrent that no equipment guy will dare do this again. He should be saying screw you, I don't care if you're Tom Brady, I ain't doing it. This needs to be a team penalty, including Owner, GM, Coach, QB and equipment guys.

You are correct, no exceptions. If they cheated, call them on it. If it's Aaron Rodgers, give him equal punishment.. not much you can do to Jerry Rice now...

The one thing that baffles me, almost all QBs and WRs I've heard interviewed prefer a slightly softer ball that is at the very bottom of the allowable range if not below... so if everybody likes it, what is the downside to just changing the range? DBs are catching the same ball for an INT so it must be preferred by them too right?

I mean if the softer ball is more comfortable and allows the QBs to be more accurate and allows receivers to drop fewer passes... and the NFL is all about the QBs and the passing game being successful.... what's the problem? Take the range down a PSI or two and let's move on...

I do not believe the 5th amendment applies to negotiated union agreements.

You're right. Often corporations can trump the fifth amendment. I mean corporations are people too after all, right?

No, I mean that, for example, you cannot be forced to take a drug test, unless you accept it as a term of employment. You cannot be forced to be a non smoker, unless you accept it as a condition of employment. There are all kinds of things that are done as a condition of employment, often negotiated as part of a collectively bargained contract, that take away a right from a person in a limited manner.

Now, back on topic:

This would be unbelievable, if it happened.

Report: Tom Brady could be suspended for up to one year - CBSSports.com
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foot...-up-to-one-year

Tom Brady's offseason might extend until 2016 if the NFL decides to drop the proverbial hammer on the Patriots quarterback and at least one report is indicating that the league could slam the hammer down hard.

According to the Miami Herald, Brady could be suspended for up to one year thanks to the part he played in Deflategate.

"Everything is being studied. Everything is being considered," an NFL source told the Herald.

Now, that doesn't mean that Brady will be suspended for the year, but it does mean that the NFL is at least considering it. Brady's punishment could end up being a shorter suspension, but the source told the Herald not to dismiss the possibility of a year-long suspension.

The Patriots quarterback, along with locker attendant Jim McNally and equipment assistant John Jastremski are the three people most likely to be disciplined, according to ESPN.com.

The 243-page Wells report found that Brady was "at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities of McNally and Jastremski involving the release of air from Patriots game balls."

The report also found that "McNally (the Officials Locker Room attendant for the Patriots) and John Jastremski (an equipment assistant for the Patriots) participated in a deliberate effort to release air from Patriots game balls after the balls were examined by the referee."

In the report, Wells also noted that Brady refused to turn over his cell phone and other personal information for investigative purposes.

Brady's refusal to help the investigation could end up being one of the big reasons he's hit with a potentially big suspension.

In the NFL's Policy on Integrity of the Game & Enforcement of Competitive Rules, the league notes that "Failure to cooperate in an investigation shall be considered conduct detrimental to the League and will subject the offending club and responsible individual(s) to appropriate discipline."

Brady's decision to not fully cooperate in the investigation was duly noted in the Wells report.

"Brady's refusal to provide us with his own emails, text messages and phone records on relevant topics, in response to our narrowly tailored requests, limited the evidence available for our review and analysis," the report said.

Whatever Brady's punishment ends up being, it will likely be handed down sometime in the near future.

In a statement after the Wells report was released on Wednesday, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell said the league "will consider what steps to take in light of the report, both with respect to possible disciplinary action and to any changes in protocols that are necessary to avoid future incidents of this type."

According to ESPN, the NFL will respond to the Wells report in a matter of days, as opposed to a matter of weeks.

I hope the guy that wrote that gets lots of clicks.. because there is no way Brady is suspended anywhere close to a year. 1 or 2 games maybe.

I'm hearing no more than 4 games...

Brady knew of the cheating. I don't know if you can suspend him for that, but you can exclude him from the HOF. What he did....or didn't do, as in tell those people to stop if they weren't under his direct request....it's worse than Pete Rose.



If I was a sports writer, I wouldn't vote him in to the HOF. Barry Bonds cheated, so did Tommy Boy.

NFL initially gave Patriots bad information about PSI readings

The Wells report notes that not a single measurement of any of the New England footballs reflected a PSI reading of 10.1. In fact, only one measurement of one football was as low as 10.5 PSI.

The Wells report also points out that Gardi’s comments about the Colts’ game balls was not accurate. On one of the two gauges used to test the footballs, THREE of the four Colts balls tested were UNDER the limit of 12.5 PSI.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...t-psi-readings/

"THREE of the four Colts balls tested were UNDER the limit of 12.5 PSI."

are the colts going to get fined to?

I thought ol' Tom was quite convincing when he was first interviewed about it. Lied well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhslsyH3PlY

Belichick was a bust though.

If it is possible to suspend a player for a year over this type of transgression .. it would not happen to Brady.

Feigning interest. Patriots have a pattern. Time for whatever justice the NFL hands down. Just do not care much. Move along!

This is a chance for the NFL to really set the guidelines for this type of behavior and to make 2 very clear distinctions in their punishments.

We know they already have a Personal Conduct Policy but now is the time to create and enforce a Competitive Advantage Infractions Policy.

And the Competitive Advantage penalties should be MUCH MUCH harsher. This would include:
- Spygate-esque infractions
- HGH or Performance enhancing drugs (and it has to be defined as drugs that actually enhance performance)
- On field cheating
- Artificial crowd noise
- etc
Anyone caught cheating should face the stiffest penalties Goodell can dream of. If he wants to protect the integrity of the game, he has to come down hard on these guys.

Personal Conduct punishments should be levied by the NFL but really let the process play out more in the Court of Law and the punishments dealt with that way. Found guilty in a Court and then the NFL can deal with it too.
- DUI
- Domestic Violence
- Recreational Drug use (weed) that is NOT performance enhancing
- Anything that you or I would get busted for

This approach would appease both the players and the fans I think.

Let's face it, there is not equal opportunity when it comes to consequences for this kind of incedent.
The Patriots won 4 Superbowls since 99 IIRC. So the NFL will treat them like a favorite son.


Let me say How I think it should go, or at least that I think, THIS IS WHAT THEY'D DO IF IT WAS THE BROWNS.

Tom Brady would be suspended for life, ( See Pete Rose)

And the Patriots would suspend football operations for the 2016-17 season. (The whole team disbanded) That's how they treat teams from Cleveland, or From Ohio.


Why would I do that, Because if your team is throwing and catching an underinflated football, then as your hand goes to grab it out of the air, it gives, changes shape, like a wet paper bag, i.e. much easier to catch.
And if my team is playing with a normal inflated football then when you go to grab it out of the air, it slides right through your hand unless you get control of two sides of it, i.e regularly hard to catch.

They should take the championship away. I hate the patriots. I hate boston, the streets are stupid.

IMO, that's the unfortunate truth. I expect any type of "punishment" to be rather laughable and that's how it'll go down.

Well, another quarter heard from .....

Chris Simms thinks Tom Brady will be suspended six games for Deflategate - CBSSports.com
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foot...ended-six-games

It took 108 days for the Ted Wells report to conclude "that it is more probable than not that [Tom] Brady was at least generally aware of the inappropriate activities" of two Patriots employees who were deflating footballs. On Friday, Former NFL quarterback Chris Simms, who was on the Patriots' coaching staff in 2012, said that Brady should be suspended for his role in Deflategate.

During an appearance on Tiki and Tierney on CBS Sports Radio, Simms said that Brady was the only NFL quarterback "I know that goes below the legal limit. ... The one thing I'll say -- I played in the NFL eight years, my dad (Phil Simms) played 15 -- never have I heard the conversation, 'Let's go below 12.5 (psi).'"

Back in January, days after Deflategate broke, Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers said that he likes to throw footballs above the maximum allowable limit.

More from Simms: "Every game that I was ever on the sideline for -- whether it be Brett Favre, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady -- the opposing team's ball boys are always over there. I always would ask (about) the footballs. How does Peyton like his footballs broken in? ... Never at one point did i say, 'Hm, that's questionable air.' So, to me, do (quarterbacks) probably take it to the minimum? Sure, (but) I have never heard of it going below."

So is Brady guilty of cheating?

"Of us being able to pin that to Tom and saying, 'Did we hear the quotes out of Tom's mouth, let's go below 12.5 (psi)'? You and I both know that equipment guys do not do anything without getting the green flag from the quarterback or the head coach," Simm said. ... "Listen, we don't have anything definitive right now but to me, all signs point towards guilty."

And to Simms, that means Brady should get suspended.

"I don't see how you don't suspend him," he said. "This is the face of the NFL, one of the all-time great quarterbacks. He tried to get a tactical advantage. It's against the rules. There's no denying that and, yeah, I think he's in big trouble. I think he's going to lose a number of games this year. ... I'd think it's going to be a six-game suspension and it's cut down to four. ... I think he's got to make a stance here, Roger Goodell, because of his relationship with (Patriots owner Robert) Kraft."

Simms adds that this also tarnishes Brady's legacy.

"There's going to be a semi-asterisk next to Tom Brady's name forever now," he said. "(And) I do think he cares because he wouldn't have taken the air out of the balls if he didn't care. ... He takes the air out of the balls for whatever reason -- he has a little insecurity about his throwing -- he wants to win that fourth Super Bowl so bad. Yes, I do think he cares how he's viewed in that limelight. Joe Montana's his idol growing up in that era. Is it going to ruin his life? No. He's got a great family, wife and a ton of money."

On Thursday, Brady said he didn't "really have any reaction" to the Wells report, and his agent went on Anderson Cooper to explain why Brady didn't cooperate fully with the investigation.

For now, Brady remains the Patriots quarterback, but if he's suspended -- and one report says it could be for a year -- that means the 2015 season opener between the Steelers and Patriots will be without the Pats' future Hall of Famer and running back Le'Veon Bell, who will miss three games stemming from a marijuana arrest last year.

I'll be totally shocked if THE Tom Brady gets suspended six games. Completely in awe if they hand down that type of punishment (which IMO is reasonable, I have no room in my heart for cheaters.)

Mike Pettine on Tom Brady: I lose alot of respect for a guy that cheats"

I wondered that as well as soon as I heard the Pettine comment.

They should just simply take their 2015 championship away from them and start fresh this year...
and fire our "texting" GM just for the fun of it...

One more report of a "lengthy suspension" coming:

Report: Patriots' Tom Brady suspension coming next week : Fantasy News
http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasy...oming-next-week

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell will suspend Patriots quarterback Tom Brady with an announcement coming next week, according to a report from the New York Daily News.

Though the report states Brady is expected to receive a suspension, the length of games has not been determined. Earlier Friday, CSN New England reported the Patriots fear the NFL will suspend Brady for six to eight games.

The Daily News, in its report, speculates Brady could receive a two-game suspension.

The recent Ted Wells' investigation determined "it is more probable than not that Tom Brady was at least generally aware" that the Patriots were purposefully deflating footballs below the league's minimum requirement in the AFC Championship against the Colts.

Brady denied the Patriots participated in any wrongdoing in a press conference held before the Super Bowl.

Brady made an appearance at Salem State University as part of a speaker series on Thursday but declined to talk much about the Deflategate controversy.

However, he did answer a question as to whether he thought the Patriots' Super Bowl victory over the Seahawks was tainted as a result to the controversy.

“No, absolutely not," Brady said, via The Boston Globe. "You know, I've dealt with a lot of things in the past, I dealt with this three months ago. I've dealt with a lot of adversity in my career, and I'm fortunate I have so many people that love me and support me, and certainly I accept my role and responsibility as a public figure, a lot of it you take the good with the bad ... We'll get through it.”

They "CHEAT" eo...They deserve punishment...Geezzzzz...

I think that it is the fact that it appears that Brady lied to the investigators, and got caught, added to the fact that the Pats have cheated a great number of times in the past, and the Commissioner said "The next time" .... and well, this is that next time.

I think that he is going to get pounded rather harshly.

I see your point eo, but Belichick has been cheating in obscene ways for years. This is Belichick's ship and he and his cohorts should be called out for once with REAL punishment. This is like Watergate. Nixon was run out of office essentially for a 3rd rate burglary. Like Nixon, they didn't have to stoop to these measures, they had the best team.

I agree with this.

PLay like a Patriot

Eo - normally I we have very similar takes on the team and all aspects of it.

Your take on this is confusing to me. I am not calling for Brady to be banned from the HOF or receive a year long ban as some (haters) have. But ....

- are there rules governing the psi of game day balls? Yes
- Did personnel on the Pats staff contrive to deflate the balls to a psi outside of those allowed by rules? Yes
- is it beyond a reasoable doubt that Brady new of this? Yes
- is it beyond a reasonable doubt that Brady knew of this and actively rewarded the 2 people co-ordinating the deflation? Yes.
- Is it basically okay for players or front office staff or any other staff to arbitrarily decide which rules are important and which are okay to ignore? No
- Is Brady a cheat? Yes

To me there is absolutely no other way to look at it. Is it a major violation that requires punitive punishment by the NFL? Probably not - but it is at least as serious as an idiot GM texting coaches during games .... in fact - which is more likely to positively influence the game for the perpetrator? Thats a no brainer.

Does Brady need to cheat? Probably not. Is he still one of the best ever? Yes. Is he a cheat? Yes. Should it be shrugged off as nothing? No. Does this latest scandal show a systematic culture of cheating at Patriots. Yes.

Tell me how you can deny any one of these points?

but lets be serious here, tom brady doesnt care what so ever HOW THE BALL FEELS. if it felt like a dudes sweaty hairy ass, but was easier to control and have caught, he would choose that way.

"feels" in this case is not about personal preference in the actual ergonomics of the ball, its how he can control the ball.

When a scouting report says teddy bridgewater has small hands, he doesnt get to compensate at the professional level by under-inflating his footballs in order to compensate for that. that would be cheating.

if he said it "felt better" it wouldnt matter.

if a receiver is caught, today, not in retrospect, with sticky gloves and says "it feels better" that doesnt matter.

cheating is cheating.

I doubt Pett classes Farmer in the same regard tbh. Whilst both, letter of the law, are cheats; I think Pett is more referencing cheating for a competitive advantage on the field. There's cheating and then there's cheating.

Mgh,

The only I have (and it's only really a hesitation) is that they did NOT prove beyond a reasonable doubt that cheating occured and Brady knew about it. They said probably and all this other wishy washy crap.

I agree with the posters that said Brady will get hammered because the Patriots have a history of cheating, and that he lied and the Pats circled the wagons during the investigation.

Beyond reasonable doubt. . . If Brady gives up his phone he could exhonerate himself. As it is the "proof" is good enough for me and most non ex patriots football pundit. In fact many say that what the report says, in NFL speak, is a total damning of Brady as completely guilty.

-And give it to the Browns! It certainly seems to me that that's the only way we'll get one!

I totally agree with you. I can't get the big deal of it.

It sounds to me like a lot of people playing a game of, "Now I got you, you SOB!"

As you mentioned, Refs handle game balls all the time and if they didn't notice a difference between the Pats game balls and all the other "legally inflated" game balls they handle with regularity, (including the Colts balls which they handled over and over in the same game), then I just can't see how the under inflated ball makes a big difference nor is it some over-the-top cheating.

I can see a QB being able to tell the difference because he handles footballs more than anyone else other than the center. I can also see a Ref being able to tell a difference if the difference is all that great especially since they had the Colts footballs as a comparison alternating drive to drive.

Everybody loves a winner until that winner wins too much and then many fans turn on them wanting to see them brought down. Human nature I guess.

The Colts couldn't score more than 7 points in the whole game. What in the hell could Brady's balls have to do with that?! And it's literally almost that funny to me that somehow Brady's balls kept the Colts from being able to score points. I wish my balls were that magical.

Also, I don't blame Brady for not giving up his phone for the investigation into the texting incidents. Neither would I give up my phone so they could sort through all the texts of my personal life, (texts to family and friends, to my girlfriend, to other NFL players and coaches, etc, etc.), looking for something damning. Screw that.

In addition, it seems they claim he offered compensation to the the team's ball handlers to deflate the balls. If that's a fact and they know it for sure then how do the investigators come up with he "probably" knew about the deflated balls? If he offered compensation he knew, not "probably" knew.

It all sounds like BS to me because Brady and Bill always seem to somehow have a great game plan and since no one understands how they do it they figure they must be cheating. Or they were "probably" cheating.

J/C

The officials handle the balls, but they don't really throw them like a quarterback. They aren't trained to the same level of accuracy as Brady, either. Football's a game of inches and all that.

My thing is that, as far as I know, Brady's agent has not denied wrong doing. He's only said the investigation was flawed. He calls the investigation a sting as if the league was supposed to give Tom Brady a warning. If Brady had nothing to hide, why not cooperate fully? Yee complains about Brady's interview not being included in the report, but it's a factual report not a place for uncorroborated testimony (potential/probable lies) that doesn't mesh with the actual evidence. Six somewhat lengthy calls in three days to someone you supposedly aren't familiar with isn't the least bit suspicious?

Yeah it is. But then again, bringing the hammer down on someone because they "probably" knew about it is suspicious too.