|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
Akron man gets 15 years for raping children http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/201...ldren/27191649/AKRON, Ohio -- An Akron man receives a 15-year sentence for sexually abusing children. Summit County Common Pleas Judge Thomas Parker sentenced James Pistawka, 37, who raped three girls. The incidents occurred between 2001 and 2013. "I am pleased to know that James Pistawka will spend a significant amount of time in prison. What he did to these children was horrific," said Summit County Prosecutor Sherri Bevan Walsh. "The victims showed tremendous strength in facing the man who did such monstrous things to them." RELATED: Akron man guilty of raping three girls On March 31, 2015, a jury found Pistawka guilty of the following charges: Three counts of rape Nine counts of gross sexual imposition One count of sexual battery _____________ we got weed dealers getting hard sentences. Erik, where you at? Justice system best in the planet, remember?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,958
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,958 |
Child molesters should never get out. Sorry, but their crime is quite possibly the worst crime a person can commit. A murderer kills someone, but that person doesn't suffer for the rest of his life as the victim of molestation can.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,066
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,066 |
Akron man gets 15 years for raping children http://www.wkyc.com/story/news/local/201...ldren/27191649/AKRON, Ohio -- An Akron man receives a 15-year sentence for sexually abusing children. Summit County Common Pleas Judge Thomas Parker sentenced James Pistawka, 37, who raped three girls. The incidents occurred between 2001 and 2013. "I am pleased to know that James Pistawka will spend a significant amount of time in prison. What he did to these children was horrific," said Summit County Prosecutor Sherri Bevan Walsh. "The victims showed tremendous strength in facing the man who did such monstrous things to them." RELATED: Akron man guilty of raping three girls On March 31, 2015, a jury found Pistawka guilty of the following charges: Three counts of rape Nine counts of gross sexual imposition One count of sexual battery _____________ we got weed dealers getting hard sentences. Erik, where you at? Justice system best in the planet, remember? I dunno, 15 years doesn't seem like enough, but hey, if he actually does 15 years that's something! The thing about your weed dealers is you ignore that many of them are also convicted violent felons or have violent histories. So for example when your local neighborhood 9 Tre who has multiple charges and convictions for things like, I dunno, say armed robbery, aggravated assaults, breaking and enterings, so on and so forth... so when he does get caught with half a pound or so, the courts typically aren't going to buy this "Oh, its only weed, therefor he must be a peaceful hippy who's never done no one wrong". Now I'm not saying that people who have drug histories are also violent people. In my experience people with drug histories don't necessarily have a violent record, but more often than not, those with a violent record often have drug histories. Personally I don't agree with "3 Strikes" laws and sentencing. I don't think anyo0ne should spend 50yrs in prison for stealing a car. That and its too easy in this day and age to be charged with a felony. Mandatory minimums and arbitrary sentencing have really made a mess of the judicial system. But remember, many of these came about I think in response to judges being too light handed. Take this dirtbag in the article you lead off with: HEre he gets 15yrs... but its not hard to find where someone guilty of a similar crime is sentenced to only 15 MONTHS in jail. At least someone got something right somewhere this time. If I make it to Detective I think I want to do a stint investigating these bastards. People just have no idea how evil some of these people are. The last time I helped a detective on a child porn case, this guy was parking his car between buildings and using the company's Wi-Fi to file share child porn while he was at work. On that day, from his computer they retrieved get this: over 70 GB's of child porn. It's mind blowing. I asked one of them how often do they actually find and rescue these victims. He said it was more often than I might think, but his answer was still only maybe 1 every 2 to 3 months regionally? That's still a drop in the bucket. People don't realize just how much sexual slavery, forced prostitution, and human trafficking goes on inside the U.S. And its only going to get worse because law enforcement isn't proactively combating it and we're starting to see urban gangs turning to organized prostitution to supplement their drug trade. Pimpin may not be easy, but there's significantly less risk for them and the return on the money is a bit better. SOrry bro, didn't mean to hijack your thread!
"Hey, I'm a reasonable guy. But I've just experienced some very unreasonable things."
-Jack Burton
-It looks like the Harvard Boys know what they are doing after all.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 5,991 |
Erik, where you at? Justice system best in the planet, remember? Yes, it is. I never said it was perfect. I personally believe child rapists should be given a death penalty. Libs tend to think they can be rehabilitated. I'm sure you can cherry pick a story from anywhere that will suit your point, so please continue. I'm sure I could cherry pick those that will suit mine.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
This is from Wikipedia... In Norway, rape is defined under the Norwegian Penal Code[57] § 192 as either:
1. engaging in sexual activity by means of violence or threatening behaviour,
2. engaging in sexual activity with somebody who is unconscious or for any other reason incapable of resisting the act, or
3. by means of violence or threatening behaviour compelling any person to engage in sexual activity with another person, or to carry out similar actions with him- or herself.
When any of these circumstances occur, a person guilty of rape is punishable with up to 10 years imprisonment. However, if a person is guilty of rape through gross negligence he or she is liable to imprisonment for a period not exceeding five years.
If the activity in question was sexual intercourse or the offender has rendered a person unconscious or unable to resist the sexual activity, the penalty imposed shall be no less than three years imprisonment.
Further, the same section defines aggravated rape as a rape committed
a. by multiple persons in cooperation (gang rape)
b. in a particularly painful or offensive manner
c. by a person previously convicted of rape under § 192 or of sexual activity with a child under the age of 14 (as per § 195 of the penal code)
d. in such a way that the victim either dies or receives grievous bodily harm.
The section recognizes sexually transmitted diseases (defined in the Infection Protection Act) as grievous bodily harm. Norway was one of the countries that you held up as great, rape gets you 10 years or less depending on the circumstances... so are you mad that this guy got too little or are you mad because weed dealers get put in jail?
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
Was wondering when somebody was going to bring that up.
Bout time.
Yes, Norway system is better than ours. Do I agree with that part for rape? No. But that what works for their country.
Same with all the other countries. It works for them, they're efficient and fair for the most part.
And once again, prison population and recidivism rate.
OUR system, here in MURIKA, absolutely doesn't work. So yes, their system is still great. Ours blows.
The problem with our justice system is we have NO standard. This guy got 15 years for rape.
Ok. If that was the standard punishment, I could be mad, but what could I say? That's the standard.
Except it isn't. This guy got 15 years. Some people get 10. Some get 20.
Then we have people who don't do jail time AT ALL.
Now compare that to some people sitting in jail right now for not even selling weed, but smoking it. The punishments are ridiculous, inconsistency, and some don't even fit the crime.
Combine that with the fact that I've been part of the justice system unfairness, I got first hand experience of that whack job that is the justice system.
It's crap DC. And nor ways and other countries have a more consistent standard. Regardless if I agree with the punishment of the crime, the standsrd applies to all.
Ours doesn't.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,799
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,799 |
Rape and marijuana are different. Rape doesn't take money out of big pharma's pocket or the tax rolls.
As for rape I have mixed feelings. Violent rape is very wrong and should be heavily punished. Rape while the victim is incapacitated should be considered violent.
Consensual sex with an underage person should only be rape in certain circumstances. I don't think a 18 year old that has consensual sex with a 15 year old should be a felony crime. However a 30 year old having sex with a 15 year old should be a felony.
The age of consent should be set in stone and that age should be legal for all. If the age of consent is 16, anyone having sex with a 16 year old should be legal. I think the age of consent should be 18. And underage sex within 5 years age range starting at 14 (19 year old with 14 year old) should be legal or misdemeanor offense. I think any sex with a person 13 or younger should be felony 1 unless the perpetrator is under 13 too.
Date rape is a whole other category, because you do have women that go on dates, have sex and resent it later. I think they should fall under violent rape in some cases, but consensual sex in others. I think there should be a heavy burden of proof in all rape cases especially date rape. And I think those that falsely accuse should be imprisoned.
As for marijuana, it should be legal across the board. I think all drugs should be legal. No penalty for using them unless you commit an offense or crime while under the influence, then penalties should be stiffer.
The reason I think all drugs should be legal is that you can not stop their use, period. So make them legal, tax them and regulate production. Junkies will sort themselves out by dying, going to jail or rehab.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,198
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,198 |
I've seen guys who've run away get sent while guys who have done this type of thing in their family are here the next day.
I've no idea what kind of sentence this deserves, except a major one, but the problem is the HIGH rate of repeat offenses.
What happens after the sentence?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
I've seen guys who've run away get sent while guys who have done this type of thing in their family are here the next day.
I've no idea what kind of sentence this deserves, except a major one, but the problem is the HIGH rate of repeat offenses.
What happens after the sentence? I think that one of our bigger problems is that we haven't come to any kind of consensus on what prison is supposed to be. Now I'm not saying that prison, under any circumstances, is fun, but... If it's a punishment, if that's all it is, then damn it make it HARD. Take away the televisions and the weight rooms and any other "fun" activity that they can do, take away the computer access, take away all of it.. and make it HARD. Make them work hard manual labor day after day after day.. make it the kind of place that NOBODY wants to go to again. If it's about rehabilitation, then make it about that. Put strict demands on them for self-improvement to learn job skills and life skills, to go through counseling, to finish high school and then make a better transition out of prison to an actual job, etc so they aren't shoved right back into the situation they came from... But what we have now is some combination of the two where neither is really emphasized.. It's not fun, but you are allowed to have some conveniences, there are some opportunities for you to improve yourself but they aren't really required, you might have a job picking up trash or working in the laundry or food service but it's not like it's backbreaking labor... then you are dumped back out on the street with a record that makes it hard to find employment, no money, no new skills, no help, and generally no real fear of going back......
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,431
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,431 |
Wait, you really believe America has the best system of justice in the world ?? Ours is a justice system in name only because what we really have is incarceration incorporated with our government subsidized prison industrial complex . A joke pure and simple and a glaring indictment against our so called intelligent population . Sometimes I really feel we have exactly the kind of world we deserve .
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,394
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,394 |
Rape and marijuana are different. The simple fact that people are discussing those two things in the same breath is astounding. It is impossible to have meaningful debate when those two things are presented as somehow being similar.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,799
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 34,799 |
He is trying to say the punishment for rape is less severe than that for marijuana... and he's right.
Last edited by OldColdDawg; 05/13/15 11:59 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
Rape and marijuana are different. The simple fact that people are discussing those two things in the same breath is astounding. It is impossible to have meaningful debate when those two things are presented as somehow being similar. both of you don't get it. i could bring any other crime. our punishments aren't adding up with the crimes here in America. so WSU i'm going ask you directly. person A just got busted selling a a pound of weed. person B just got busted raping a girl. who should go to jail longer? person A just got caught getting into a fist fight with a guy, who fell on the ground and hit his head and died. both were fighting. person B just got caught killing 4 people with a vehicle, while underage, while drunk, while already under probation. who should go to jail longer?
Last edited by Swish; 05/14/15 07:45 AM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,198
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,198 |
The private prison system seems a problem from the start.
I don't condemn our whole justice system, but there are very notable issues.
Add in for profit prisons and it's easy to see how a large portion of our population feel they're being treated unequally.
One problem I've recently heard reported is a high prevalence of severe treatment by prison guards. The reason given, and the reason I don't trust private prisons, is they aren't adequately trained to de-escalate a crisis.
They aren't paid or trained enough.
You're housing real criminals with those who probably shouldn't be there based on their crime AND more and more mentally ill inmates.
So if you don't have people who are trained for that specific job then you'll probably end up being a warehouse and doing your best to prevent riots.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,394
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,394 |
No Swish, YOU are the one who doesn't get it. I'll lay it out for you again:
I'm not going to engage in any discussion that puts marijuana and rape in any comparable scenario.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
No Swish, YOU are the one who doesn't get it. I'll lay it out for you again:
I'm not going to engage in any discussion that puts marijuana and rape in any comparable scenario. You must really not want to talk about our best-in-the-world legal system then...
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
No Swish, YOU are the one who doesn't get it. I'll lay it out for you again:
I'm not going to engage in any discussion that puts marijuana and rape in any comparable scenario. are you that ignorant? i'm saying the punishments for the individual crime don't add up. i simply picked two crimes. whatever beef you have with me is stupid. you seem to take everything i post as a personal attack grow up, and answer the question, i don't bother responding to me at all. your crap is getting annoying.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,341
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,341 |
God's Judgment will be much more harsh on someone who harms little children ...
MATTHEW 18:6 Jesus said " But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea."
Last edited by PastorMarc; 05/14/15 08:20 AM.
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
God's Judgment will be much more harsh on someone who harms little children ...
MATTHEW 18:6 Jesus said " But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea." at least you answered the question. wish your boy WSU was the same way.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,394
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,394 |
No Swish, YOU are the one who doesn't get it. I'll lay it out for you again:
I'm not going to engage in any discussion that puts marijuana and rape in any comparable scenario. You must really not want to talk about our best-in-the-world legal system then... So a discussion about our legal system can only occur via debate comparing marijuana to rape? No thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
No Swish, YOU are the one who doesn't get it. I'll lay it out for you again:
I'm not going to engage in any discussion that puts marijuana and rape in any comparable scenario. You must really not want to talk about our best-in-the-world legal system then... So a discussion about our legal system can only occur via debate comparing marijuana to rape? No thanks. No, but it does involve a discussion about non-violent crimes and punishment. But you know that.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
lol I can't deal with WSU today 
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,394
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,394 |
No Swish, YOU are the one who doesn't get it. I'll lay it out for you again:
I'm not going to engage in any discussion that puts marijuana and rape in any comparable scenario. are you that ignorant? i'm saying the punishments for the individual crime don't add up. i simply picked two crimes. whatever beef you have with me is stupid. you seem to take everything i post as a personal attack grow up, and answer the question, i don't bother responding to me at all. your crap is getting annoying. Ahhh...now the personal insults start. So typical of you. You picked two crimes that aren't even remotely comparable and you want me to compare the two...THAT is stupid. You want better debate? Make a better post...present a better argument. You started a crappy agenda-thread AGAIN and now you are all butt-hurt that someone won't play along with you. I won't engage in your silliness...you will just have to deal with that. You keep throwing out ridiculous, one-sided, over-the-top posts and you will continue to get challenged.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,394
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,394 |
No Swish, YOU are the one who doesn't get it. I'll lay it out for you again:
I'm not going to engage in any discussion that puts marijuana and rape in any comparable scenario. You must really not want to talk about our best-in-the-world legal system then... So a discussion about our legal system can only occur via debate comparing marijuana to rape? No thanks. No, but it does involve a discussion about non-violent crimes and punishment. But you know that. If that is the debate to be had, try presenting it that way. Or do you want someone to do it for you? If someone does it for you, you just might not like the result.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
No Swish, YOU are the one who doesn't get it. I'll lay it out for you again:
I'm not going to engage in any discussion that puts marijuana and rape in any comparable scenario. are you that ignorant? i'm saying the punishments for the individual crime don't add up. i simply picked two crimes. whatever beef you have with me is stupid. you seem to take everything i post as a personal attack grow up, and answer the question, i don't bother responding to me at all. your crap is getting annoying. Ahhh...now the personal insults start. So typical of you. You picked two crimes that aren't even remotely comparable and you want me to compare the two...THAT is stupid. You want better debate? Make a better post...present a better argument. You started a crappy agenda-thread AGAIN and now you are all butt-hurt that someone won't play along with you. I won't engage in your silliness...you will just have to deal with that. You keep throwing out ridiculous, one-sided, over-the-top posts and you will continue to get challenged. lol, you're already playing along. you keep posting. i presented you with 2 scenarios. one didn't even involved weed. yet you wanna keep going on and on. i posted the scenario. answer them. it's that easy dude. and agenda thread? everybody has an agenda. you clearly have some type of personal vendetta against me, which i find comical. i post over and over again how its fun getting you riled up, and yet you keep doing it, like you didn't read the post. so is our system the best or not?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,394
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,394 |
lol I can't deal with WSU today Swish, you can't deal with me any day.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
No Swish, YOU are the one who doesn't get it. I'll lay it out for you again:
I'm not going to engage in any discussion that puts marijuana and rape in any comparable scenario. You must really not want to talk about our best-in-the-world legal system then... So a discussion about our legal system can only occur via debate comparing marijuana to rape? No thanks. No, but it does involve a discussion about non-violent crimes and punishment. But you know that. If that is the debate to be had, try presenting it that way. Or do you want someone to do it for you? If someone does it for you, you just might not like the result. I think it was obvious to everyone what the entire thread was about. Personally I don't care. I don't need to prove you're wrong about our justice system to prove that it's not #1. So personally, I don't care. But the "you just might not like the result." was a pretty funny comment.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
6 Reasons the U.S. Justice System Is Anything But Just http://www.care2.com/causes/6-reasons-the-u-s-justice-system-is-anything-but-just.htmlThe populace’s shocked reaction to the George Zimmerman verdict is telling: deep down, people still believe that justice prevails in U.S. courts. The truth, however, is that the court system is flawed in just about every way imaginable. The courts are in the practice of handing out punishments – not justice – which generally work to oppress our country’s racial minority and impoverished people. Here are six ways the Justice System fails to promote actual justice: 1. Threats Necessitate Plea Bargains ADVERTISEMENT In other countries like the U.K., the prosecution cannot threaten to pursue more aggressive charges if a suspect does not plead guilty and wants to go to trial. In America, however, this is just standard practice. The idea behind our justice system is that everyone gets his or her day in court, but that is rarely how things play out anymore. In many instances, maintaining your innocence is considered a dumb move because the potential punishment is so hefty. In most cases, people plead guilty and take a lesser punishment regardless of their culpability because the risks of losing at trial is far too risky. How is that justice? 2. Unequal Incarceration Rates In the U.S., African Americans are six times and Latinos are 3 times more likely to be incarcerated than their white counterparts. Before you blame it all on behavior, police seem to disproportionately target certain people for arrests. Despite similar drug usage rates, black people are four times more likely to be arrested on marijuana charges. Moreover, punishments are not allocated equally. On average, judges sentence black convicts to 20% more jail time than white people who committed the same crime. How do you help convince a country that black and brown people are dangerous criminals? By disproportionately locking them up more often and longer to reinforce the idea that they are criminals. 3. For-Profit Prisons Why does the U.S. have the world’s highest incarceration rate? As usual in this country, follow the money for the answer. Over the years, prisons have gone from a state-run entity to a private enterprise. Since maximizing profits for this industry requires stuffing as many bodies into the jails as possible, that means the demand for new inmates is always high. We can’t expect justice to be served when rich people have a financial interest in seeing more people locked up. 4. Public Defense is a Joke Those who can’t afford a defense are supposed to be afforded a public defender attorney, but that is not always provided. There are documented cases of people being offered an immediate plea “deal” if they agree to not request council. The poor lawyers who agree to serve as public defenders are underpaid and overworked, and often lack the time and resources to adequately mount an effective case against the state’s prosecution. A great new HBO documentary, Gideon’s Army, portrays just how unviable the system is for everyone involved. 5. Winning Trumps Justice With pressure from the state to obtain convictions, prosecutors are forced to play a game where being on the winning side is more important than being on the right side. Somewhere in this process, the idea of finding justice is lost. Prosecutors should be tasked with presenting a fair case, not attempt to win at any cost, particularly when “winning” may mean a potentially innocent person’s freedom is at stake. 6. Corrupted by Campaign Money Think legislators are the only elected officials whose positions have been compromised by the Citizens United decision and the subsequent need to appeal to campaign donors? Think again: state judges (who decide 95% of the country’s court cases) are subject to the same warped system. 38 states require its top judges to run for office, and since voters generally knows little about its judicial candidates, the winner is usually the person who spends the most to get his or her (usually his) name out there. This leaves judges beholden to their private interest campaign financiers, which has unsurprisingly led to a surge of decisions in favor of corporations rather than individuals. Read more: http://www.care2.com/causes/6-reasons-the-u-s-justice-system-is-anything-but-just.html#ixzz3a7RSimHB
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
I think it was obvious to everyone what the entire thread was about. Personally I don't care. I don't need to prove you're wrong about our justice system to prove that it's not #1.
CHS, I'm curious, and it may just be me reading more into it. But you say "not #1". Which I am reading that there is a system better, and I'm not arguing there isn't, just curious if you know of one or have one in mind, because I feel all justice systems have flaws, some better than others in their respective parts of the world, but I don't know that I could rank them because of the many variables.
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
I think it was obvious to everyone what the entire thread was about. Personally I don't care. I don't need to prove you're wrong about our justice system to prove that it's not #1.
CHS, I'm curious, and it may just be me reading more into it. But you say "not #1". Which I am reading that there is a system better, and I'm not arguing there isn't, just curious if you know of one or have one in mind, because I feel all justice systems have flaws, some better than others in their respective parts of the world, but I don't know that I could rank them because of the many variables. Swish posted a list of four the other day. I don't really have one specific off the top of my head, I just know we're not #1. I'm not even sure we're in the top 10. But, if we are, then shame on the rest of the world.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 15,015 |
jc. In Norway, fewer than 4,000 of the country's 5 million people were behind bars as of August 2014. That makes Norway's incarceration rate just 75 per 100,000 people, compared to 707 people for every 100,000 people in the US. On top of that, when criminals in Norway leave prison, they stay out. It has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world at 20%. The US has one of the highest: 76.6% of prisoners are re-arrested within five years. Norway also has a relatively low level of crime compared to the US, according to the Bureau of Diplomatic Security. The majority of crimes reported to police there are theft-related incidents, and violent crime is mostly confined to areas with drug trafficking and gang problems. Based on that information, it's safe to assume Norway's criminal justice system is doing something right. Few citizens there go to prison, and those who do usually go only once. So how does Norway accomplish this feat? The country relies on a concept called "restorative justice," which aims to repair the harm caused by crime rather than punish people. This system focuses on rehabilitating prisoners. Take a look at Halden Prison, and you'll see what we mean. The 75-acre facility maintains as much "normalcy" as possible. That means no bars on the windows, kitchens fully equipped with sharp objects, and friendships between guards and inmates. For Norway, removing people's freedom is enough of a punishment. Like many prisons, Halden seeks to prepare inmates for life on the outside with vocational programs: woodworking, assembly workshops, and even a recording studio. Halden isn't an anomaly either. Bastoy prison is also quite nice. Halden prisonYouTube/John StarkThe recording studio at Halden prison. As Bastoy prisoner governor Arne Wilson, who is also a clinical psychologist, explained to The Guardian: In closed prisons we keep them locked up for some years and then let them back out, not having had any real responsibility for working or cooking. In the law, being sent to prison is nothing to do with putting you in a terrible prison to make you suffer. The punishment is that you lose your freedom. If we treat people like animals when they are in prison they are likely to behave like animals. Here we pay attention to you as human beings. All of these characteristics are starkly different from America's system. When a retired warden from New York visited Halden, he could barely believe the accommodations. "This is prison utopia," he said in a documentary about his trip. "I don't think you can go any more liberal — other than giving the inmates the keys." In general, prison should have five goals, as described by criminologist Bob Cameron: retribution, incapacitation, deterrence, restoration, and rehabilitation. In his words though, "Americans want their prisoners punished first and rehabilitated second." Norway adopts a less punitive approach than the US and focuses on making sure prisoners don't come back. A 2007 report on recidivism released by the US Department of Justice found that strict incarceration actually increases offender recidivism, while facilities that incorporate "cognitive-behavioral programs rooted in social learning theory" are the most effective at keeping ex-cons out of jail. The maximum life sentence in Norway shows just how serious the country is about its unique approach. With few exceptions (for genocide and war crimes mostly), judges can only sentence criminals to a maximum of 21 years. At the end of the initial term, however, five-year increments can be added onto to the prisoner's sentence every five years, indefinitely, if the system determines he or she isn't rehabilitated. Anders BreivikAPAnders Breivik. That's why Norwegian extremist Anders Behring Breivik, who killed 77 people in a bombing and mass shooting, was only sentenced to 21 years. Most of the outrage and incredulity over that sentence, however, came from the US. Overall, Norwegians, even some parents who lost children in the attack, seemed satisfied with the sentence, The New York Times reported. Still, Breivik's sentence, as is, put him behind bars for less than 100 days for every life he took, as The Atlantic noted. On the other hand, if the system doesn't determine Breivik "rehabilitated," he could stay in prison forever. To those working within Norway's prison system, the short sentences and somewhat luxurious accommodations make complete sense. As Are Hoidel, Halden Prison's director, puts it: "Every inmates in Norwegian prison are going back to the society. Do you want people who are angry — or people who are rehabilitated?" Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12#ixzz3a7rLQCFC
We don't have to agree with each other, to respect each others opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 40,399 |
I think it was obvious to everyone what the entire thread was about. Personally I don't care. I don't need to prove you're wrong about our justice system to prove that it's not #1.
CHS, I'm curious, and it may just be me reading more into it. But you say "not #1". Which I am reading that there is a system better, and I'm not arguing there isn't, just curious if you know of one or have one in mind, because I feel all justice systems have flaws, some better than others in their respective parts of the world, but I don't know that I could rank them because of the many variables. I've stated before that I'm not an expert in criminal justice but one only needs to look at the results compared to the other places to realize we have a big problem.. from our violent crime rate to our incarceration rate to our recidivism rate.. all of them paint a picture of us, not only NOT being #1, but not being very good at all. I will give you that it's not all about the system, we have major cultural issues that also need to be addressed and they go hand in hand... I don't think there is anything fundamentally wrong with the way our justice system is supposed to work in THEORY... but it's not working like it was designed to work and some folks just don't seem to want to address it... It would be like the Browns hiring the reincarnation of Bill Walsh.. ok, we know we have a proven system.. but if you keep winning 5 games, then you have to figure out what the problem is.
yebat' Putin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204
~ Legend
|
|
~ Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 18,204 |
There's actually some cool things that our legal system kinda allows like the use of "jury nullification" so if the jury finds that a law shouldn't be a law, they can nullify it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,405
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 28,405 |
My only comment is that I'm fairly certain that he won't survive the 15 years.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,259
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,259 |
I'm not going to engage in any discussion that puts marijuana and rape in any comparable scenario. But our justice system does. Our justice system regards every crime as taking a portion of your life in penalty to the crime. This is either done by fines (takings hours worked away from you), or by penalizing you to jail time (losing hours of your life behind bars), or by capital punishment (losing your entire life). Swish is just asking why a guy gets 5 years each for the rape of 3 girls while people are serving life sentences for pot: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/13/marijuana-lifers_n_4578030.html
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
I think the biggest problem with comparing our "systems" with just about any other countries system, is that other countries don't have to budget several billion for military spending, because they know "we've got their back".
We spend over $600 billion on the military and it's both a blessing and a curse. We know nobody is going to really mess with us, but it also ties up a substantial chunk of our budget. Just about every one of our Allies is happy with ignoring any military spending of their own, because they know the US will come bail them out if they run into any potential occupation issues. That frees up tons of money for them to spend on other things and suddenly they have much better "programs" than we do.
Sure, it's easy to say, "Well just stop spending money on the military", but historically that almost always ends up with someone else's troops rolling through your front yard at some point. There is no real easy answer to it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 52,481 |
I think the biggest problem with comparing our "systems" with just about any other countries system, is that other countries don't have to budget several billion for military spending, because they know "we've got their back".
We spend over $600 billion on the military and it's both a blessing and a curse. We know nobody is going to really mess with us, but it also ties up a substantial chunk of our budget. Just about every one of our Allies is happy with ignoring any military spending of their own, because they know the US will come bail them out if they run into any potential occupation issues. That frees up tons of money for them to spend on other things and suddenly they have much better "programs" than we do.
Sure, it's easy to say, "Well just stop spending money on the military", but historically that almost always ends up with someone else's troops rolling through your front yard at some point. There is no real easy answer to it. I'ver heard this excuse before. And i want to know how true this actually is, or if it's just an opinion. I asked some of my friends abroad about this before, and they laughed. My wife, for instance(German) said they don't need to spend so much money on military because they don't live their lives like a scene from Rambo. they don't plan on every situation having to be about war, but their military is more than capable of taking care of themselves. Then my homeboy in Switzerland said "whens the last time anybody has tried us? and we don't ever ask for any US backing." it always sucks when my friends and family talk trash about us, but in this case, i'd say thats accurate. spending money to have peoples back, and countries wanting the the US to spend money for "protection" is two very different things. That sounds more like mafia forcing people to pay for "protection" every month. so i want to know if thats even accurate. even still, that still doesn't account for our for-profit prison system, or racial discrimination disparity, our crazy sentencing terms, and other major blunders in our prison system. So spending money protecting others instead of fixing our own problems isn't a valid excuse.
Last edited by Swish; 05/14/15 03:11 PM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
- Theodore Roosevelt
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Justice system at work!!
|
|
![[Linked Image from s2.excoboard.com]](http://s2.excoboard.com/forums/25521/user/302752/484538.gif)
