DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Deflategate- Wells report finds Pats employees probably deflated balls vs. Colts

I agree with this. It's not the results garnered by cheating, but the fact you were cheating.

I'm also one who believes the lack of compliance in the investigation could be more of the reason for such a harsh punishment that the act itself. Ted Wells himself put out a statement that included facts showing that not only wasn't Brady being compliant, but the Patriots themselves as well.

No I don't. Neither do I think Brady and the Pats are the first to do it, nor the ONLY ones to do it. I wonder how many teams do this or similar "cheats" looking for an advantage.

Hell, I was an assistant coach for a 9-10 year old team. Our coach sent 10 men into the huddle, (refs at that level aren't so attentive), and just before the snap he had our best WR, who had been standing on the sidelines, step onto the field and subsequently catch a pass 15-20 yards away from the nearest defender. That was Pee-Wee ball.

He also allowed the receivers to use "Gorilla Snot" on their hands. You could catch a pass two-fingered with that stuff. I was a bit put off about it at first thinking it not fair and then saw some of the things other teams were doing. Same kind of stuff. Pee-Wee ball.

Now one might say, well, the NFL is a professional league, they need to operate with a higher level of integrity. Yes, of course they do. But what they really do, in my opinion, is learn to cheat without getting caught. Sometimes they get caught.

Piping in crowd noise at home games. Talk about blatant cheating. But they found a way to do it for several years without getting caught. Cheating on such a grand scale only tells me that that same team is cheating on a much smaller scale in a myriad of ways. Doesn't that make sense that it would be happening there? If they're bold enough to pipe in noise then I'm betting they're cheating every way they can in much smaller ways still hoping for an advantage or even a perceived advantage, no matter how small.

I think many people are naive in thinking that nobody cheats and when they do they get caught. I'm betting more than likely 97% of the cheating goes unnoticed by fans or even the NFL.

It's a game of inches. If you can gain 1/8-inch advantage in a game of inches that's a big help.

Do you feel that the fact that Brady and the Patriots withheld information and interviews during the process along with earlier infractions such as textgate did and should have had any bearing on the punishment?

Because IMO, interfering with the investigation held some amount of reasoning as to why the punishment was more severe than it otherwise would have been.

How 'bout you and me go round and round for 3 or 4 pages just for old times sake?

Yes, I do think not cooperating fully added substantially to the punishment. I've heard all the facts from NFL Network as I've had it on in the background and watched a bit too much of it as well.

I also think that given the recent screw-ups by the NFL and Goodell in making bad decisions in high profile cases, they are over compensating on this one in a PR move to try to show they are "tough on crime" or to "right the other wrongs" with a strong statement of force on this cheating thing.

They can't have the loyal, paying public going around thinking NFL players/teams are cheating, even though they are.

I know no one else agrees with me on this situation. I've even thought of the possibility that I may be coming across as in the manner of a troll by posting my thoughts as I have so many times. But I'm not a troll so I don't care. I'm only posting what I think even if no one agrees. I'm not out to change any minds.

I know everybody in the NFL cheats. The stakes are too high to not be tempted to do things to try and gain an edge. It's not only human nature but it's inherent.

Honestly, and don't tell anyone this, But I don't know what should be done, what an appropriate punishment should be, (maybe 50 push-ups)hahaha. It's out of the realm of my ability to understand enough to make a knowledgeable determination. But it's not beyond me to find the whole thing farfetched and way over the top.

I would go around with you for a few pages for old times sake, but in part, I do agree with you. Not completely, but partially. lol

I agree that it's more about the perception of integrity more so than actually establishing integrity. I do believe with all of the money involved that teams will try about anything to gain an advantage. So I don't believe it's isolated to the Patriots. I'm not sure I know what the proper penalty should be either.

The only place I believe we really differ is that I understand what the NFL is doing and why. And I believe from your post you understand why they are doing it too.

Firstly, as much as it pains me, the NFL is in the entertainment business as much as the business of sports. They are a corporate entity at least as much if not more than a sport. As such, the image and perception is just as much, if not more important than anything else. As such, with the history of spygate, New England appears like a repeat offender at best. Just as with any NFL infraction, a repeat offender is dealt with more harshly. So a slap on the wrist or similar penalty to offenses by the Browns or Falcons would appear insufficient.

So to me, that's the first reasoning for why the penalty initially would have been more severe than either the Browns or Falcons.

Then in addition, they and Tom Brady did not cooperate with the investigation. That simply added insult to injury which would further increase an already harsh penalty.

I do understand what you're saying about overcompensating due to other screw ups on discipline as of late. However, I'm not sure I completely agree. In those cases, they were off the field issues. More about player behavior off the field. In the latest issues, it's been about teams and the integrity of the game on the field. A sense of fair play. To me those are both issues, but separate ones. I believe if you look at bountygate, the league set a precedent that if they felt teams acted inappropriately, they wouldn't hesitate to come down hard.

So while much like you, I believe a lot of it has to do with public perception. But unlike you, when I consider that this is not a first offense for the Patriots, their unwillingness to cooperate, combined with the precedent of bountygate, I can understand the penalties dished out.

This is all crap...So the Patriots have to miss their 1st 4 games without a QB....we've been doing that since 99!

Making a federal case out air pressure in a ball.....wow!

Why does it pain you to say it? Sports, by definition, is entertainment.



Every sport is willing to overlook a little bit, a little stick-um on the towel, a little vaseline under the brim of the ball cap, a few extra steps at the top of the key to get to the rim...

But when somebody publicly calls you on it, and it turns out they were right.. then there has to be a punishment. Otherwise it will continue to grow and get worse.. look, players are going to push the limits of what they think they can get away with and you aren't going to bust all of them... so when the example presents itself, then you come down hard just to let the others know you are still watching...

well I mean, they do eat a lot of beans!

That's about the best take on it I've seen so far.

It's not so much that (which may or may not have made a performmance difference) as it is the flaunting of the rules...

It's a good thing that the prevailing winds are West to East...

jmho, you can't lump everyone into the same pile...ie. everyone cheats, that isn't correct....Don Shula claims his teams didn't, plenty of other coaches try their best not to cheat....plenty of other's do....our Gaylord Perry was known for doctoring the ball....he was a cheater and wrote about it, isn't he grand....nope, he was a successful cheat...doesn't change anything.....I think Pats got hammered for pass events AND because they flaunted knowing the rule book, getting the edge on Ravens, using "deception" to their advantage....that's BS, the spirit of competition is to beat someone far and square...doesn't happen often, but that is the intent....I'd have NO problem with Brady if he'd told the equipment guys to get every ball to the legal low limit PSI....do I think the PSI caused the Colts to get blasted...NO...but the Pats cheated and were caught and punished....GOOD and Brady's rep SHOULD take a permanent rap......GO Browns!!!!

Wow.

Does anyone here honestly think that the Pats deflated balls for just the one game? C'mon.. The colts tipped them off to what the Patriots were doing. It has to have been an ongoing problem or how would the Colts know anything.

The fines.. penalties.. loss of draft picks are for far more than just what happened in the AFC Championship game. It is for the deception.. for the lies.. for the refusal to cooperate.. for the ongoing perception of cheating. Have any of you ever bowled in a league? Bowling balls have to have a certain level of hardness. Has anyone played in a softball tournament ? All balls have to be a certain brand.. with a particular core. Everyone plays with the same equipment or they do not play at all.
Same thing in the NFL.

Which is why I'm astounded that the NFL actually lets each team provide the balls they will use on offense. Pick a ball, pick a PSI, pick a method for conditioning the ball, vote on it, make it a rule, then the NFL can provide 25 of those exact balls for every game.

Every team can practice with them, get used to them, and use them... why is this so hard?

eo, what gets me is all of the people saying that the NFL should fix it's integrity problem. The NFL doesn't have an integrity problem.

When 32 billionaires get together to devise a business strategy, it's safe to say that it's probably pretty good. Why does Goodell have to keep doing this? Simple, because the teams won't. If the Pats could be trusted to punish Brady and the Vikings Peterson and the Ravens Rice, etc.. then Goodell wouldn't always have to be the bad guy. The owners hired Goodell and the owners pay Goodell $10 million a year to do all of the dirty work and take all of the heat so they don't have to. Everybody still loves their team, everybody still loves football, everybody focuses their hatred on Goodell... it's a perfect plan from the owner's perspective, that's why they aren't in any big hurry to "fix it" or change it.

Imagine if you could hire a commissioner for your family... every time you screw up, you turn it over to the commissioner and he does an investigation into what you did, slaps you with a little punishment, and in the end, your wife hates him and isn't mad at you at all? What a great freakin' plan that is.

EO, I get what you're typing, just don't see it your way or the other ways, old saying- all is fair in love and war...not really. If what you typed about Shula is true, well he's got an agenda....we all do. Looking at black and white...not grey, I stand on statement that IF Brady told guys to soften the balls, he has some responsiblity.....old days, when Sam Huff and others bite and twisted ankle in pile, or recent, Suh stopping on ankles...black and white, if caught, they should pay and hurt them were it counts, players suspended without pay and organizations lose draft picks...great, wonder how many Indians fans back in the day thought Perry should have been suspended or corked bat players should be lost for 25% of season....fair competition, it is very difficult to attain....volleyball is tough to cheat at...no contact, played indoors...never seen a spitter in volleyball.....GO Browns!!!!

This topic is highly deflating...psssssssssssssssss

I'm not going to sift through all these posts, but I'm so tired of this story...

Why can't the Patriots just take their punishment? The texts from the employees who did this is evidence enough.

The arrogance and cockiness of the Patriots, their owner, and their star player is worse than the actual infraction. If this isn't such a big deal, then why do it, and why lie about it?

I thought someone made a great point when talking about not so much the velocity or accuracy when throwing a ball, but just the ease of securing it. A guy on ESPN made a point about Gren-Ellis turning over the ball a lot more once he left NE. I can definitely see it being a lot tougher to jar a ball loose when it's not inflated to the standards that the league wants.

I really think if they owned up to it, at least after the super bowl, that the punishment would have been closer to the Falcons for pumping crowd noise, but their own arrogance cost them this punishment.

I mean, Robert Kraft demanding an apology. Get the hell out of here. You deserved what you got.

Now we're going to have to hear about how mad the patriots are, and how it's "them against the world" and every other rah rah cliche out of horrible boston writers. Nobody wronged them. They did it to themselves.

I think the team should take the hit. After all, in the end all the blame goes to the top since the top is ultimately responsible.

What I hate to see is for arguably the best QB in the history of the game to have his career and history tarnished as a cheater by the final decision that he "probably" knew something about it.

If you cheat you cheat. If you get caught then you should get punished. But I would think it should take more factual evidence and proof than "probably" to put such a black mark on a HOFer's illustrious career branding him for all time as a cheater.

If they had more damning evidence that proved without a shadow of that doubt he was responsible then ok.

But to spend your life in prison because some investigator, through an incomplete investigation, thinks you "probably" did something wrong is, well, wrong.

But this is more akin to a civil case as opposed to a criminal one. The standards are lower...

I do understand that. But as I've said, "probably" is not good enough to brand a HOF player as a cheater for the rest of his life and beyond. Not to me anyway.

A 4 game suspension is one thing. He can do that standing on his head. But the overall implication of being a cheater is much, much worse.

Solid, factual, damning evidence should be the criteria.

I hope they crash and burn with the appeal attempt.

Based on those measurements, most were off by .50 psi between the 2 officials. Which is quite possibly attributed to air loss when inserting the gauge the each time.

If they really want a standard, then the NFL should supply the balls, or have the home team supply ALL the balls, and they are all mixed in, no specific team specification.

During the pre-game inspection, Anderson determined that all but two of the
Patriots game balls delivered by McNally were properly inflated. Most of them
measured 12.5 psi. Two tested below 12.5 psi and Anderson directed another
game official to further inflate those two game balls, which Anderson then
adjusted to 12.5 psi using a pressure gauge. Most of the Colts game balls tested
by Anderson prior to the game measured 13.0 or 13.1 psi.

https://wellsreportcontext.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/wells_report_full1.pdf

yea. guess the colts put 13 in theres and the pats 12.5 before the game. otherwise all the balls would have been under.

thats what the pats are saying. i just dont see enough proof for a fine or anything else. yea i think brady will take it to court. just one big mess. glad it isnt the browns for a change.

If the Patriots are innocent.. And those two guys were just having a conversation about losing weight..

Why did New England fire them?

Goodell just wants TV ratings during the off season. Every year the NFL drums up this drama for ratings.

Watching Goodell cook his own goose this year is priceless. He's really going the WWF way this year. I pity the fool.

Inflation.

There is a pattern with BB and it has to do with taking any advantage he can. Remember what a Rat Mangini was for blowing him in for cheating its his MO he looks for any advantage he can find and its only against the rules if you get caught.

In this case they will just rinse and repeat just like they always have and in the process they will likely have to make room for more Lombardi's.

A 1st rounder for a trophy, cheep.

Haha @ everyone now taking stabs and blaming New England for sabotaging communications.

Including our very own Karlos Dansby. I personally, actually believe their accusations. New England is dirty.