DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Johnny Manziel...continued again!...

You mean like Brian Hoyer?

The Browns prior to Hoyers arrival were league leading losers going all the way back to 2007, after he got here we got our 1st look at winning.

When Mangini got here we were talent starved, up against the cap, and had no draft picks. We were at best a 2-3 win team, in fact the fact we won any games was close to a miracle.

So here is the track record for the fans. They hate Hoyer, but he is the only QB we have won with since 2007.

Mangini comes here and takes a no talent team and wins 5 games with NO QB, but the fans they LOVE LOVE LOVE BQ, do you need to be reminded how wrong you all were about that?

Then Heckert drafts Richardson, I said the guy was a BUM, and guess what? A week later he is gone. Who was wrong about that?

At the end of the day though the fans wanted Mangini gone because he was 5-11 and they want Hoyer gone because he is 10-6. I like coaches who find ways to win with no talent and I like talented QB's that win. And I'm the dumb one....

BTW I judge QB's differently then I do coaches.

Said this many times.

Coach A has a 14 win team

Coach B has a 4 win team

Coach A wins 10 games

Coach B wins 5 games

Which one did a better job?

I don't expect you to be able to figure it out sorry I asked....

I believe we have our coach in Pet. Haslam wanted his Bill Cowher and I think he has him in Pettine. Hell Haslma got off to a slow start but I do feel this team is moving in the right direction.

Are there ANY coaches in the league that could have won more than 5 games with the "talent" we had in 2009 and 2010?

God I hate thinking about it....

Mohammad Massaqqoui, Chansi Stuckey, Joshua Cribbs (great KR/PR but below average WR) and Brian Hartline.

Our lone bright spots in 2009 was Jerome Harrison going off at the end of the season, and then in 2010 it was Ben Watson and Peyton Hillis.....

The offensive line was bad. The defense was old and didn't have any kind of "core" set in place like we do now....

Mangini got a lot of the blame, but I ask, which head coaches in the league WOULD have won ball games with an offensive cast like that!?

Mac, before anointing, let's see what he does this year and next. Schedule will make or break him. Talent needed is young let's see how well him and staff coach up. His legacy in Cleveland is pretty much in Johnny Football's hands. This team must figure out how to win with talent given.

In 2008, a late-season collapse—the Jets missed the playoffs despite an 8-3 start—led to Mangini's firing on December 29, 2008, one day after the season ended.

Mangini went just 10-22 with the Browns and finished his second season with a four-game losing streak.

OK

set up to fail.

This may have been true until the fans saw him play.

I think it is justified for the fans to get excited about a first round pick QB taking the field.

But the love affair you refer to didn't go much beyond that.

The fans of the Browns universally hate just about anyone who doesn't produce instant results. There are usually no exceptions.

I'm actually pleased that the schedule, on paper at least, is tougher than last season. You don't get better playing the weak teams...

Pot....Meet...Kettle

The only thing about our schedule i dont like is the stretch where we have 5 out of 7 on the road and 5 were playoff teams last year. Thats a tough one but if we survive that we should be in decent shape.

I also feel these are teams that Pet is probably looking forward to playing. He wants to smash and I think we can can win the trench game. Again however, Qb is the unknown. I do love this OL and with the addition of Erving. I have very high hopes.

I find this to be an overly simplistic thing to say. While I do agree that holds true for some fans, I believe the vast majority look for something far easier to accomplish than that.

That's that a highly drafted player show some signs there's a foundation to build upon. A base of talent that looks like it can transfer to the NFL in a way that can help the team.

I don't believe using an example of someone who has to this point that their partying is their single biggest talent is a very useful example.

For a GOOD coach players play harder for, to try to save his job not GIVE UP.

Oh so glad you were able to hook up with Mac....

It CAN. But think of it this way: What's the BIGGEST advice/piece of wisdom people impart on a young athlete who has the talent and ability to be something special, but thinks that their sport is the only thing they need and they have it made?

Get and education. Think about life AFTER football, or God forbid you get seriously hurt. What will yo do then?

I think the same premise holds true for Johnny. First and foremost he has to learn about being disciplined and successful at LIFE before he can worry about the NFL. I guarantee that Johhny still has people trying to get him to live the party life. He has to figure out how to say no to them and the temptation completely separate from football.

Now, I do agree that football can be a great motivator for him. But where I see making it his primary motivator as being detrimental to him is his lack of maturity. I'm not saying this as a slam on him, but he still has a lot to learn about life and being a professional, even if he wasn't dealing with substance abuse issues. Honestly, I probably wouldn't be as worried about it if his situation was like Favre's was, where he was basically in the middle of a successful career when he sought help for his pain med abuse.

I don't think Pet has a final determination on Johhny yet as a football player. I think if he really felt that Johnny isn't going to be the guy they need, that he would push (behind closed doors)to move him out.

I DO think that Pet is more concerned with Johhny Manziel, the man, than he is Johhny Manziel the QB. If Johhny ultimately succumbs to his addictions, then it should be because of his own inability, not because the Browns put too much on him before he is ready and he fails.

You know who I'm talking about. Your getting to be worse than mac. According to you your the only one who has an opinion thats right.

I think that you meant Robiske, not Hartline.

j/c

It seems to me that some seem to be missing what the job of an NFL HC actually is. It's not about saving their players with life lessons. It's not to worry about the long term results of a players life.

It's about putting a winning product on the field. It's about answering the questions about any position on the field and figuring out whether a player can help win games, or to move on at the position.

Babying JFF does nothing to accomplish what the goal of an NFL HC actually is. Now if the FO feels it's worth the investment to continue investing in a player for future development and money in that player to do so, then so be it.

However, the HC has a job to do. It's certainly not to baby anyone.

Yes.

Thank you.

Alcohol helped me forget....

Point of the post I made though.

I think Mangini was setup to fail from the start. I liked him as a coach, but the QB roulette in 2009 with Derek Anderson and Brady Quinn was a no win situation. Then Jake Ya-gotta-tell-home and Colt McCoy in 2010 would have been worse had it not been for Peyton Hillis and our tough defense keeping us in football games.

I thought Colt McCoy looked really solid as a rookie in 2010. I was at the Jets game where he drove us down the field to tie it up at 20-20 to send it to overtime. (Stuckey fumbled in FG range and sure enough we lost later on). Shurmer came in, we did zero to upgrade the offense, and McCoy sputtered big time...

I'm rambling. Sorry.

I think Manziel is being put into a VERY good situation with the team we have. The offense has talent (Crowell, West, Bowe, Hartline, Hawkins, Mack, Thomas, Bitonio and maybe Housler). The defense should be absolutely dominant if healthy.

Crossing my fingers for Manziel to do something.

Let's say JFF fails this year. Farmer drafts another QB next year. How many more seasons does Farmer...Haslam...give Pettine to be a playoff contender? I think if JFF falls flat Pettine and JFF get escorted out together. This isn't a Cleveland agenda. Most NFL teams put pressure on their HC to produce.

pettine is not a farmer hire. whats more you just know farmer was pissed about lack of playing time for his draft picks last year, thus textgate was born. only reason pettine is still here is embarrassment over fire 3 HCs in 3 years. JMO.

My apologies, omniscient one. Please forgive me. Just like your predictions about Joe Banner saving the Browns, I should have been able to correlate that same "educated" foresight to Eric Mangini. What was I thinking?

pettine is not a farmer hire. whats more you just know farmer was pissed about lack of playing time for his draft picks last year, thus textgate was born. only reason pettine is still here is embarrassment over fire 3 HCs in 3 years. JMO.

I think Ray Farmer was the goat for Jimmy Haslam when it comes to the "textgate" debacle. It's been well documented that Haslam had MAJOR influence over the Browns taking Johnny Manziel. It was probably Haslam pulling the strings when it comes to Manziel and his play time.

I don't believe for a second that Farmer only kept Pettine around to avoid further embarrassment. We went 7-9 and had four losses by 4-points or less. I would say that Mike Pettine did a hell of a job considering the situation he was put into....

"only reason pettine is still here is embarrassment over fire 3 HCs in 3 years."
=====================================================

Pettine is still here because there has been no reason to fire him.

He was a Haslam hire. That is true.

Obviously a newly hired HC should get at least 3 years. I know that has not always been the case. But, in this case he will get 3 years.

Pettine won 7 games with less than average play at quarterback. His team played hard and he didn't lose any games by himself.

Unless it is clear behind the scenes that he has lost control of the team; he will be judged by how the team improves over the next 2 years.

Manziel's performance from here on out lies directly in his own hands.

If the Browns are in the quarterback derby next year that is sole result of Farmer and Haslam.

This year the defense needs to show improvement under Pettine and O'Neil.

Even though Pettine is going to be more involved in the offense once again the play from the quarterback position needs to improve and show some consistency.

If Pettine is given time and a quarterback he will win enough games.

Farmer in my mind is the guy who is more vulnerable. A lot will depend on how his draft picks perform.

The team is hopefully improving. What stands in the way is the performance from the quarterback position and Haslam knows it.

and what was that?

Excellent post and right on the money.

I think he did a great job troubleshooting just to get this freakshow on the road. All uphill as far as media lunacy. I want to see him, expect him to improve. Solid coach.

you started the thread mac. any quick reply goes in your name.

Testing quick reply...

#JFF

test. yep.

I'm calling shenanigans........