DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Johnny Manziel...continued again!...

NRTU

Mangini was a turd. A pathetic hire.

The only one right in his mind was him. Only he was pathetic as a coach and as a GM.

He set the team back 4 years.

Man, he was just pain awful.

It was not possible to take the team he inherited and "set it back 4 years". The team he inherited was awful.

I disagree. The fan base in general is absolutely clueless on what it takes to turn this around. They think it's waving a magic wand in one off season. They believe that every player that takes the field should be great right away. You know why Cleveland is a laughing stock? It's not because of the losing. It's because of the instability and lack of patience. Guys like Flacco would have never survived here because he wasn't great right out of the gate. Now he's one of the best QBs in the NFL. Makes me sad that people just don't get this very simple concept.

Not sure why you brought Manziel up though. I was actually responding to something about Quinn. I never specifically used Manziel as an example in that post.

I agree, I would include the local media as well although on both accounts they think they know, and they do all they can to drive that point home.



Oh I see the majority on this very board fall squarely into that line of thought, its a story that has played out over and over.

Will see it repeat itself this season when the QB situation explodes in their faces. I wonder how well the pro Pet crew will hold up when the sledding gets rough.

At the end of the day though the fans shouldn't hold sway with management and ultimately its their instability that leads to their own destruction and ours.

MO has been for some time. Mangini was a great coach who knew how to fix what was wrong but the fans wanted instant gratification to this day they still don't understand his circumstances when he arrived.

When he was replaced they hailed it as if now finally we were going to be rewarded with a winner because as they said "we were all on the same page now". Some went so far as to have a check list. I wonder how many of those fans are here with us today who will admit to being wrong. And better yet I wonder if they took any lessons from it. Oh I left out the juiciest part we were promptly rewarded with a 4-12 season with better talent then Mangini ever had to work with. Did it ever hit any of you that Mangini did more with less? Or were you so fixated on PF that you couldn't see it wasn't going to get better that you had bought a used car with no engine. Na

For me we finally had a QB that could win games, not to be confused with greatness, but a guy we could win with and we let him walk just like we let a coach that knew how to build a winner walk and the fans bless it believing that somehow these types of guys are easily replaceable and really never give it much of a thought nor do they take a lesson from it, all while preaching patience which absolutely blows my mind.

Now here we stand 5 years later and we are still losers, did you learn anything?

My point would be this if you like/love Pet now how will you react to what is almost guaranteed to happen this upcoming season. Will Pet go from a fan favorite to goat? Based on the past I can all but guarantee the fans will turn on Pet quickly and heartlessly. They won't consider what he has to work with, they simply expect results.

Pet is a good coach but good coaching only takes you so far. If he loses this season he won't be clueless he will be talent starved in a key area. If I were to be a critic right here and now I think the biggest mistake these folks have made was not overvaluing the QB position, but undervaluing the position. Its a mistake on their parts and one they will pay a heavy price for down the road, but that won't make them bad coaches would be my point.

I pray we keep Pet after this season because he like Mangini before him knows how to get it done but its going to take time. These 2 guys are very much cut from the same cloth believe it or not.

For the most part we agree (except on Mangini). My absolute biggest fear is starting all over again after a double digit loss season. And I think a double digit loss season is highly probable unless Manziel shows signs of life. The only other hope to avoid a double digit loss season is the defense plays out of their mind. I just can't see them doing enough though against Roth, Flacco, and Cincy. And that's 6 games right there. Three teams with stability and continuity and two great QBs. Those teams already trump us on so many levels. And Cincy is going to be hungry as hell this year.

The pitchforks will be out. "We can't have continuity for continuity's sake!" will be the mantra of the day. Wash. Rinse. Repeat. Bring in another FO and coaching staff and start all over. Not sure I have the stomach for that. People don't realize how far that sets the team back.

Spoken by a guy that really knows how to win friends and influence people

Don't worry Da, I included you....

Even if we lose 10-12 games this year we have to stay with the people we have. We need the continuity and we do have a tough schedule. I think we are on the right track and with at least average qb play and good health we can surprise some people this year.

And he managed to do just that.

The plethora of Jets scrubs and those 3 second rounders that never panned out.....

We will agree to disagree. It is not possible to take one of the very worst teams in the NFL and set them back 4 years. All coaches bring in players they are familiar with, especially when a team is devoid of talent. That 2008 team, when all was said and done, lacked talent (to be nice) at QB, WR, DL, LB, and the right side of the OL was a disaster.

That team could not have been set back 4 years. It simply was not possible.

wow one bad draft set back 4 years? how many decades did heckert set us back?

heckerts piss poor drafting and talent evolution killed 2 coaching staffs and front office. talk about setting a team back.

The Worst NFL Coaches of the Past Decade

Eric Mangini

Years active: 2006-2010
Win-Loss record: 33-47
Team(s) coached: New York Jets, Cleveland Browns

Dubbed the "Mangenius" during his time with the New York Jets, Eric Mangini was seen as the Jets' equivalent to Bill Belichick. Mangini was supposed to be a Patriots-slayer; the student of Belichick who would surpass his master. But, unfortunately for Jets fans, things didn't go quite according to plan. Though Mangini took the Jets to the playoffs in 2006, they ended up falling to the Patriots in the AFC Wild Card game that year. It would be Mangini's only playoff appearance as either a coach for the Jets or Cleveland Browns, with his latter tenure being even more unsuccessful than his time in New York. As a coach for the Browns, Mangini took Cleveland to consecutive 5-11 finishes before being dismissed after the 2010 season.

Link

Are we really going to argue over coaching staffs we had three to four regimes and one owner ago, or can we just try to update this thread when we hear more pertinent info on Johnny?

j/c

in my opinion, there is one head coach who stands alone as our worst since 1999 (and it isn't close in my eyes): Pat Shurmur


from the second Holmgren hired him I knew he was atrocious ... I can't see any of our players taking him seriously for 1 second

Wow its in print it must be so...lol

You mean the guy responsible for 5 pro-bowlers and three all-pro selections? He sure did set us back!

Yeah, I'd rather have Mangini too.

yea the guy that blew 3 out of 4 first round picks. wow see trent is on his 3rd team in 4 years. must be some kind of record for the 3rd overall pick. cant stay on a team for 2 years lmao.

has to be one of the top 3 busts in the browns history.

Well, Holmgren has gone on record saying he is responsible for at least one of those picks, and reports are out there that he made BOTH picks pulling a power move on Heckert. But keep fighting the good fight. Mangini needs all the help he can get.

Three of the top busts?--- Another solid comment!

i would call trent a top 3 bust in browns history. and isnt it something how all good picks go to heckert and all bad picks are some one else. pfft

A couple people post it on a message board it must be true!

Mangini is gone guys.

HOYER is gone

Heckert is gone.

Let it go. This is about Johnny Manziel, who's soon gonna be gone probabaly next year too.

Johnny Manziel getting help from LeBron James' righthand man in staying on the straight and narrow

BEREA, Ohio - Browns safety Donte Whitner revealed Tuesday that LeBron James' righthand man and business partner Maverick Carter has taken the lead in helping Johnny Manziel stay on the straight and narrow.

"He's taken a big responsibility in making sure that Johnny's doing all the right things,'' Whitner said after the first day of organized team activities. "(Manziel) has a mentor, somebody to talk to, certain things that he really didn't have the ability (to do) or somebody to talk to before. It looks like it's working out so far.''

Carter is the co-founder of LRMR with James, the marketing firm that represents Manziel. He's been spending a lot of time with Manziel since he was discharged from 10 weeks of inpatient rehab on April 11. Among other things, they've been sitting courtside at Cavs playoff games and spending time with James, who's also taken Manziel under his wing.

Manziel, who took the second-team reps Tuesday behind likely starter Josh McCown, has been seen out socially since he left the Caron Addiction Treatment Center. But he's usually with Joe Haden, Whitner or Carter -- all of whom know how important it is for him to stay on the right path.................

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2015/05/johnny_manziel_getting_help_fr.html

more if you go to the link.

Because Johnny is a client and they want to make more money from his "brand". They can't do that if he's a second string QB with no future.

This is a good allocation of time and resources.

You watched him play last year do you really believe that?

I watched him play in roughly two combined games. Why would I come to a conclusion in that short of a time period one way or another? That's like saying Banner was here to save our team, "be ready to be shocked", and those who didn't like him just don't understand-- all before the season even started.

That approach clearly worked out well.

No, Manziel is leaning unfavorably but I won't make quick decisions, over the top speculation about players, coaches, FO, in only one year's time. Others handle that role just fine around here, if you catch my drift.

in my opinion, there is one head coach who stands alone as our worst since 1999 (and it isn't close in my eyes): Pat Shurmur


I will very gladly second this....

I could not STAND this guy. Pat "We battled, so it's okay we lost" Shurmer.

The guy looked like Forest Gump on the sidelines, completely lost and emotionless. I never felt good about him being hired, and the two years he was the head coach were extremely painful to watch.

Colt McCoy showed flashes of excellence in his rookie year, then Pat Shurmer showed up and the kid COMPLETELY regressed.

Shew....

Sorry to ramble.

Glad Shurmer is gone....

When I heard some team was interviewing Pat for their coaching vacancy, I laughed. I think I'd have to agree with that assessment too, Shurmur was just a failure.

I agree Shurmur was the worst...

But remember all the posters on this board telling us about how we would win now becuase we were all on the same page?

Remind you of anything.....

yep. no coach could win with the roster heckert put together.

Do you have any idea how hard I was jumped on for saying that very thing. And now years later you won't even get a rise, because its been proven to be absolutely true.

Funny how time seems to nearly always support my prior position. Not always right (nobody is) but man over time I would stack my take up against this boards any day.

I think Heckert did pretty well actually. His real handicap was PF and of course Shurmur was PF's puppet it was a sick time although most thought we would now win because we were all on the same page, remember that?

It still blows me away how easy it was for PF to sell the fans his used car......

In many ways it reminds me of the used car their buying now with Mccown....

EO, I think it's pretty clear now that he was a very bad head coach. At minimum, in over his head as a first timer. At worst, a family favor by Holmgren without any real background check on his skills/ability.

But hey, Sam Bradford seems to like him.....

Still wish we would have kept DQ over Dansby, and Ward over Whitner?

I remember that one because I loved ("and still do love) that signing. I feel that the signings of Dansby and Whitner were an improvement over DQ and Ward, especially from a leadership aspect.

One of the times I was actually right. lol (At least I believe that I was in this case)

IMO it's clear day. This is hard for me to say, as I loved DQ and Ward. Alot both as players and as off field people.

It's just a treat watching Karlos play. I knew we was getting a good middle lb'er, but his play on the field and his leadership off it has just been top-notch. wHitner also posses leadership that TJ couldn't provide and is, IMO, equally if not more physical than TJ. I felt TJ let off alot when he got fined on the Jordan Shipley (Bengal WR). Donte is superior in coverage too.
All JMO