DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Why Donte Whitner is so optimistic about the Browns

A classic statement that speaks volumes as to the real problems of this board.

If you don't agree w/someone, get others to help you out in bullying them.

Freaking awesome!

of course that's what a cop would say.

But Arch!! It has to be someone else's fault for getting banned.......30+ times......in 2015 alone.

You think I'm a ref??????

Prp - set them straight.

chill dude it was a joke.

man, you're just as square on here as you are on FB.

I didn't think the statement was all that classic. Certainly not in my top 10.

Fill me in on what that means. Here, or on facebook.

Okay guys.

Everyone take a deep breath and back away from the keyboards!

I know one thing we can all agree on....

Glad Greg Little is gone!

I stopped reading right there, Rish it has everything to do with blown 1st round picks dude.

These guys are your studs these are your Pro Bowl game changers without drafting and developing 1st round talents you have the current and former Browns. It's not us that doesn't understand it, its you.

I just thought you should know.....

Daman - sorry for the confusion. My comment aimed at the poster claiming that if we had one of the other 3 QB we would be a playoff contender. We might be - we might not. But JG has no snaps. Teddy and Carr both have a lot of improving and proving before anyone can say they are solid or good NFL QB's. While it may not be highly probable - there is a chance McCown will be better than all 3 this year.

What are you saying? That those are the only picks that count? So if a GM is solid in every other round and free agency, if they dont nail the 1st round picks they are no good?

I don't know about you - you seem to enjoy nit picking for the sake of it so maybe you are different - I'd rather judge Farmer on EVERYTHING he does and all the players he signs. . . . That means the players like Bitonio who graded out on profootballfocus as the 5th best OG in the NFL ... West, Crowell, Williams, Dansby, Whitner .... as well as JFF and Textgate .... I thought we improved a lot last year with the players we added. I think we have added more talent again this year. I'm encouraged. Certainly not damning anyone based on a season of play from his first ever draft as GM.

Text had 2 1sts last year that didn't contribute and that simply can't happen/ JF is understood as being a shot in the dark and sometimes you have to do those things because your forced too. But Gilbert has been a wash. When you miss on 1st round picks you set the team back. Judging a GM on who he signs in FA really, you think that sets 1 GM apart from the other?

Don't you guys see its the chief reason we are who we have been, poor drafting especially at the top is why we lose year in and year out, are you all that mixed up that you can't see it. Watch as other teams draft and watch how their fortunes rise and fall on those 1st round picks. Had we picked Big Ben/Rogers we are a better football team today, those missed picks have huge consequences and you just can't miss.

Text knocked it out of the park on Bitonio. But top guards are truthfully not game changers thats why in all but a handful of cases these guys come from the 2nd round and later.

Look at the Richardson pick, you think him being a dud didn't have a huge negative effect. I'm not blaming Text for those picks what I'm trying to do is show you how negative poor 1st round picks impact a franchises. West, Crowell all those guys their nice players, but they are not pro bowl game changers, and you can't make up for poor 1st round picks based on who you sign in FA. It amazes me to see the depth that some of you go too to cover up for these guys.

Text simply has to do better in the 1st round you can't have multiple 1st flops, you simply can't. Those picks are your 1st picks you have to get it right, minus any and all excuses.

Do a what if for yourself. What if Gilbert plays to potential last year. What if Johnny had not wasted a year having a good time? What if Richardson had been the player he was drafted to be? How much does that change the dynamic and fortunes of the team?

Thats why you can't miss on these picks.

BTTB...

Technically Ray Farmer hasn't missed on Justin Gilbert (yet). The kid DID show some progress last year on the field. His worth ethic and maturity off the field came into question, sure, but by no means is he a bust. Off-season reports are saying he's been working real hard, and has been spending a lot of time with the vets (Haden) in an attempt to better himself, a very good sign.

Ray Farmer also didn't miss on Johnny Manziel.

Jimmy Haslam missed on Manziel.

I posted four articles on a previous page suggesting that Haslam had everything to do with the selection of Johnny Manziel.

I'm just saying, thus far, Ray Farmer hasn't been bad....at all.

The text gate stuff was embarrassing, but he's done way more to help this team than to hurt it at this point.

I definitely see the main point you're trying to get across...

This team would be in a much better place right now had Trent Richardson & Brandon Weeden worked out, or had we selected Sammy Watkins and Derek Carr. That all sucks...

Kelso I'm not saying Text missed on any picks but I ain't going to have his bust made up for Canton any times soon either.

It amazes me that the perception is that Text has done nearly everything right. Which if I read thru this thread I could be lead to believe that he had a great draft this year. Really?

On the one hand you say Gilbert is an incomplete but on the other hand its a forgone conclusion that this years draft was solid bordering on great. the strange thing is not a one of these guys has taken an NFL snap. So here is the standard if Text drafted the guy and he was sub par last year then Text gets an incomplete, but if they were drafted and haven't played a down yet they are great?

Do you see your slant. You like the guy so your giving him the benefit of the doubt and until its proven otherwise his draft was great.... Its impossible for me to say your balanced or even being reasonable when what your saying has a he is great slant, even if the results are incomplete.

What I said about missing on 1st round picks is dead on. That is the heart and soul of a draft thats where you either move up or down the food chain, the fact that Text has done well outside of the 1st round getting roll players doesn't let him off the hook for the poor job he did last season in the 1st, where you should see instant or nearly instant contributors who make large if not huge differences in the teams fortunes.

Its actually a lesson we should all know by now. You have to hit it out of the park in the 1st that round is the impact round. He swung and he appears to have missed on 2 1st round picks from a year ago if we have a repeat Text needs to go. Now before you start crying about time Text has made enough 1st round picks now to cover 4 season worth of 1st round picks if he swings and misses again he needs to go.

Talk about slant. You haven't stopped trashing the Browns since they got rid of your boy BH.

he hasn't stopped since they got rid of mangini. you should've seen him and Verse on the other boards. man....

I agree. Banish the regime/choices stuff. I think we have done better than we have for say five years so far.

I really enjoy and hope to see more about what we have in camp now and what those players mean to us this season, and if they even make the squad. Much more interesting than the horse floggings IMO.

I side with the Japanese business model: "Don't fix blame; fix problems." We have been trying to do that in light of our challenges.

BTTB...

You + are = You're.

Just so you're aware...

Anyways

You bring up a good point. We can't crown Farmer yet because this years picks haven't taken the field. We don't know if they'll workout or not. I think the vast majority of posters on this board are giving Farmer the benefit of the doubt because he did something completely unheard of (at least by Browns standards). He found SEVEN rookies that played and helped us last year (NINE if you want to count Shaw and Gilbert). That's a lot of solid players for a first year GM to find, and it's completely excluding Manziel/Gilbert. He also brought in Hawkins, Whitner, Dansby, Dray and Miles Austin. Farmer did a lot of things last year to help shape a roster that went 7-9 (it's best since 2007) and lost 4-games by 4-points or less.

Those are the reasons Farmer is getting the benefit of the doubt.

All I was trying to point out was that he hasn't necessarily whiffed on ANY first round picks yet. Gilbert played and showed improvement, and as I stated, Manziel was a Haslam pick, not a Farmer pick.

On paper, going by rankings, the draft was great. Five players inside virtually every top 100 big board with our first five picks, and then two late round steals in the ILB from USC and CB from Oregon.

The field grade has yet to be determined as you said...

The time to address this subject is now...don't wait for more evidence that could cost the franchise even more years.

What evidence are you referring to that suggests Farmer is under qualified, and is going to set this franchise back years?

Five free agents & seven rookies that HE brought in last year helped this team go 7-9 (while losing 4 games by 4-points). That's the best we've done since 2007.

You claim he cannot judge skill position players yet last year he brought us in Miles Austin, Jim Dray, Taylor Gabriel, Isaiah Crowell, Terrance West, and Joel Bitonio. None of them are flashy names by any means, but they worked for this team.

This year he brought in Dwayne Bowe and Brian Hartline, two of the VERY FEW receivers who would come to Cleveland at a reasonable asking price. He then upgraded our defensive & offensive lines early and often in the draft. What's so bad about all of this?

Ray Farmer was a big fan of Derek Carr but Jimmy Haslam stepped in and forced the Manziel pick. This year in 2015 he made a play for Sam Bradford but the Eagles/Rams wouldn't bite, and then he attempted to make a play for Marcus Mariota (which I think would have made a mistake). How is he directly responsible for our less than ideal QB situation? He's tried to fix it both years, and it hasn't worked out.

I acknowledge that it's only his second year, and the guy isn't perfect (Text gate), but I'm not seeing what he's done that's been SO bad.

I Agree MrKelso, and if either Manzeil or Gilbert become what we thought they would be then Farmer's first 2 drafts (Including UDFA'S and those he has picked up in FA) become an A++ ... JMHO

Cleveland Browns general manager Ray Farmer insisted Tuesday that owner Jimmy Haslam had no influence in the selection of Johnny Manziel in the first round of the draft in May.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/120977...-johnny-manziel

Of he course "he" didn't. He had his liaison, a hobo, do it for him.

see how rumors get started.

No matter what some of you naysayers think, Jimmy, and Ray, and Coach Pettine have this team headed in the right direction, 7 wins last year with 4 losses by 4 points, COME ON MAN, and I would not be surprised to see this team which is even better personnel wise this coming year to win 9-10 games ... Great coaching and heart can overcome our short comings at QB ... JMHO

cant stand how often people try to present it as FACT that haslam made the pick.

So did Dowell Loggins lie JUST DAYS after the draft saying Haslem made the call to trade up and take Manziel? You know, where he was quoted on the airwaves...

so is farmer a liar?

dowell loggins said one thing.
pettine said another.



you basically pick which ever side you want to believe, and run with it.

but that doesnt mean its fact.

He very well could be- in fact with this situation, I believe so. Why would that be a shock? People lie to the media all the time.

I find is curious Farmer is quoted saying that while being investigated for texting and happening several months after the selection actually happened. A "take the bullet" comment for a player who failed after year one is what that looks like.

But please try to answer my question too.....Did Dowell Loggins lie on the Arkansas radio waves JUST DAYS after the draft DETAILING how the selection went down?

So you are saying ignore everything else except the #1 picks.

I could not disagree more - that'd be like saying you judge a QB only on his 3rd down completion and conversion rate because those are the ones that he has to make. And that might be an interesting stat - but it isn't what you judge a QB on exclusively.

very well could have. he was trying to look bigger in the browns org than he was for his home town radio. to be blunt that sounds more real than him texting the owner of a team direct. lol



thats pretty funny for some one who was not in the draft room lol.

We don't know. You don't know. Simple.

What's worse? Farmer taking the hit for a meddlesome owner who pulled the trigger on JFF? (or if you are a Farmer hater - Farmer being a patsy and not standing up for what he believes in) or .... Farmer just blowing the call and selecting JFF which at this point looks like a blown pick.

It is what it is - I don't think it makes or breaks Farmer either way. Farmer made the pick regardless of whether there was pressure from his boss. He owns it. Why debate it now?

You are being so silly Tab but I expect nothing less if anyone questions anything about this FO.

Try this in simple English...... Every move is a part of Farmers evaluation. The good ones AND the bad ones. Your pro bowl players USUALLY come from the first round. IF you miss on TWO 1st round picks, you missed an opportunity on TWO premiere players.

Is that the entire book on Farmer? No. Did he do very well later in the draft? Yes he did. But you can't take the good and leave the bad. You seem to have a problem with that. All moves are part of evaluating an NFL GM. Not just the good moves or the bad moves.

Like always, it's either black or white with you. No middle ground.

Actually I think I have been pretty balanced on Text. And what I was addressing was how we have to do better in the 1st. It really wasn't aimed at Text it was hey look we have whiffed on to many 1st round picks in the past and in the present. Look at the team and say we haven't.

Thats the point our 1st round picks have put us where we are maybe more so then any other round. You show me a team that drafts well in the 1st and I will show you a winner. Has to do with the Browns present and past failures and its the point that we have to do better. If Text doesn't do better in the 1st we won't do better on the field.

After 4 1st round picks its time to deliver IMO. Not all this talk about Text is great the draft is great swing and miss on anymore 1st rounders IMO and he should be looking for a job. That doesn't mean I hate the guy cause I don't. I don't like things he has done because I think there have been times that he has cut off his nose to spite his face, Hoyer being one of those things. But I actually attribute that more to Flip then I do Text.

He has done an OK job, but its fair to say that and temper it with he needs to do better in the 1st, if he doesn't all we will do is spin our wheels.

The biggest kick I get is the one where yeah well if Mack leaves Text was smart he took out insurance. The irony is if they are that concerned and you all seem to be about hedging their bets then they and you think Mack will leave because we will be losers. Which is it are we winner this year or losers.

Point being your not looking down the road if your sure your going to win. Fans think it guarantees us some sort of security and protects the team. What does it protect the team from exactly remind me?

Back on point though Text has done OK I know he could do better and I expect better especially in the 1st round... If he don't will be looking for a new GM.....

Haslam stuck his neck out for Farmer by firing our previous regime just one year into their run and offering him the job, did he not? So you don't throw your boss under the bus. I posted four different articles "suggesting" that Jimmy Haslam had some serious weight in the Manziel selection, and that Ray Farmer was high on taking Derek Carr. Even if we go ahead and EXCLUDE the Manziel pick from the equation, Ray Farmer still managed to find this team A LOT of rookies last year that looked good. Who was the last Browns GM that found us that many in one class that could easily stick to this team and contribute for the next 4 to 8 years!?

Haslam meddling in draft process.

Derek Carr workout with Cleveland goes well

Haslam forces Manziel pick?

Haslam orders Manziel pick after text message.

Did you read any of those!?

Not at all?

A source said Loggains never meant to make it sound like Haslam made the pick instead of general manager Ray Farmer. "Farmer definitely made the call,'' the source said. Instead, he wanted to convey how excited everyone in the organization was -- all the way to the top -- that Manziel was so eager to come here.

Haslam corroborated that during a speech on Monday.

"Ray's the one that picked Johnny Manziel," Haslam told the Pro Football Hall of Fame luncheon club on Monday. "We took the top-rated quarterback on our board when he was available. That was solely Ray's call, not my call."

He added that although "Ray gets a lot of input, Ray's the one that decided to make the trade, Ray's the one that picked Johnny Manziel, Ray's the one that made those calls and that's his job. I want to make that very clear.''

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2014/05/johnnys_manziels_hurry_up_and.html

haslams a liar too?