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The increasing chatter that Cleveland will choose the Heisman Trophy-winning quarterback Johnny Manziel with the fourth overall pick has led to speculation that Browns owner Jimmy Haslam might be pushing for the move. But Browns coach Mike Pettine says Haslam isn’t pushing for Manziel, or for any other draft pick. Pettine told Aditi Kinkhabwala of NFL Network that Haslam wouldn’t tell the football people what to do during the draft. “That would never happen,” Pettine said. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/201...raft-decisions/pettine is a liar too.
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haslams a liar too?
Given his recent history, would it be crazy to at least call the man "shady" if not a liar?
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The time to address this subject is now...don't wait for more evidence that could cost the franchise even more years.
What evidence are you referring to that suggests Farmer is under qualified, and is going to set this franchise back years?
Five free agents & seven rookies that HE brought in last year helped this team go 7-9 (while losing 4 games by 4-points). That's the best we've done since 2007.
You claim he cannot judge skill position players yet last year he brought us in Miles Austin, Jim Dray, Taylor Gabriel, Isaiah Crowell, Terrance West, and Joel Bitonio. None of them are flashy names by any means, but they worked for this team.
This year he brought in Dwayne Bowe and Brian Hartline, two of the VERY FEW receivers who would come to Cleveland at a reasonable asking price. He then upgraded our defensive & offensive lines early and often in the draft. What's so bad about all of this?
Ray Farmer was a big fan of Derek Carr but Jimmy Haslam stepped in and forced the Manziel pick. This year in 2015 he made a play for Sam Bradford but the Eagles/Rams wouldn't bite, and then he attempted to make a play for Marcus Mariota (which I think would have made a mistake). How is he directly responsible for our less than ideal QB situation? He's tried to fix it both years, and it hasn't worked out.
I acknowledge that it's only his second year, and the guy isn't perfect (Text gate), but I'm not seeing what he's done that's been SO bad.
...but, just picking FAs does not mean that GM is suddenly going to acquire the ability to judge WR draft talent.
You must admit, the Browns passed over some top WRs in the past two drafts.
I still believe Farmers ability to judge the highest skilled on the offensive side should be questioned. Not a thing wrong with the Browns improving their front office..IS THERE?
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You wouldn't be that naïve to think Haslem (just after the draft) would outright say: "Yeah, I trumped our newly promoted GM and made the call to trade up. From this point forward, call me Jerry Jones, Jr. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to take this call with the Feds. For whatever reason, they keep hounding me."
At DT, context and meaning are a scarecrow kicking at moving goalposts.
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I have little doubt he has lied to the media. Again, so what?
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You wouldn't be that naïve to think Haslem (just after the draft) would outright say: "Yeah, I trumped our newly promoted GM and made the call to trade up. From this point forward, call me Jerry Jones, Jr. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to take this call with the Feds. For whatever reason, they keep hounding me." you know what i think. i think you are just doing your little childish thing of every good pick is the gms and every bad pick is some one else fault.
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Five free agents & seven rookies that HE brought in last year helped this team go 7-9 (while losing 4 games by 4-points). That's the best we've done since 2007. Yeah it was all Text.. Sheeeeeeeeeshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh You guys are so twisted you can't see what is right in front of your own faces. This team had some degree of success last year because of Hoyer, period and he isn't here anymore. I'm sure you want proof so here goes. 7-6 with Hoyer 0-3 without Hoyer, and if you go back 2 seasons 10-6 with Hoyer and 1-15 with everyone else. So tell me again that it was Texts who brought us those wins. tell me about how, Miles Austin, Jim Dray, Taylor Gabriel, Isaiah Crowell, Terrance West, and Joel Bitonio turned the tide. No facts are facts and the facts say conclusively that Hoyer was the difference maker. And remember this when you have your next well Hoyer is easily replaced thought we are 1-15 without him so the thought that he is easily replaced may need some tweaking. But I will do you one better. If we are a 2-3-4 win team this year are you willing to say that it was Texts fault?
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You wouldn't be that naïve to think Haslem (just after the draft) would outright say: "Yeah, I trumped our newly promoted GM and made the call to trade up. From this point forward, call me Jerry Jones, Jr. Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to take this call with the Feds. For whatever reason, they keep hounding me." you know what i think. i think you are just doing your little childish thing of every good pick is the gms and every bad pick is some one else fault. Is this your "take your ball and go home" comment again? Because I've never said Manziel was a good pick.....or a bad pick, for that matter. I think I've said, it's too early. But carry on....
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This team had some degree of success last year because of Hoyer, period and he isn't here anymore.
Wow.. Just.. Wow.. The only reason we had any success was because of Brian Hoyer? Seriously? Not the run game? You know.. The thing that was the only reason Hoyer had any succes? Hoyer.. The guy who fell completely apart when he was actually asked to carry the team? Wow.
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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kelso...in another thread you mention that it was a mistake for Farmer to allow Charles Johnson, WR, to be stolen off of the Browns practice squad.
Does that not reflect on Farmers ability to offensive talent at skilled positions?
I'm sure the Vikings are hoping the Browns continue to allow Farmer to judge our skilled positions...Charles Johnson is listed as WR#1, on their first team offense.
Farmer is literally helping the Vikings build their offense with key players Farmer didn't want on the Browns roster.
...and you and other followers believe Farmer does not need help..go figure.
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This team had some degree of success last year because of Hoyer, period and he isn't here anymore.
Wow.. Just.. Wow.. The only reason we had any success was because of Brian Hoyer? Seriously? Not the run game? You know.. The thing that was the only reason Hoyer had any succes? Hoyer.. The guy who fell completely apart when he was actually asked to carry the team? Wow. There's only one thing standing in the way of your opinion, the FACTS. Aside from that great post 
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Just because you point out a teams record when a certain QB is starting doesn't make it a "fact" that he's the reason it happened..
Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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Five free agents & seven rookies that HE brought in last year helped this team go 7-9 (while losing 4 games by 4-points). That's the best we've done since 2007. Yeah it was all Text.. Sheeeeeeeeeshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh You guys are so twisted you can't see what is right in front of your own faces. This team had some degree of success last year because of Hoyer, period and he isn't here anymore. I'm sure you want proof so here goes. 7-6 with Hoyer 0-3 without Hoyer, and if you go back 2 seasons 10-6 with Hoyer and 1-15 with everyone else. So tell me again that it was Texts who brought us those wins. tell me about how, Miles Austin, Jim Dray, Taylor Gabriel, Isaiah Crowell, Terrance West, and Joel Bitonio turned the tide. No facts are facts and the facts say conclusively that Hoyer was the difference maker. And remember this when you have your next well Hoyer is easily replaced thought we are 1-15 without him so the thought that he is easily replaced may need some tweaking. But I will do you one better. If we are a 2-3-4 win team this year are you willing to say that it was Texts fault? I said Farmers additions helped this team, and they did. Does Hoyer deserve some credit? Absolutely. He played well in spots, but it's a two way street. All the guys that I mentioned HELPED with the success that Hoyer had last season. Brian Hoyer was down right bad when we had no running game, so you might say that Terrance West, Joel Bitonio, Ben Tate (who I forgot to mention), Isaiah Crowell, and Jim Dray all played a very large role in the success that Hoyer had. If not for a strong running game, in an effective system, how would Hoyer have done? Well, we saw how he did with no running game, and it wasn't pretty... You and I can debate Hoyer, and stats, and circumstance all day long (and we have). The subject we're all debating right now is Ray Farmer. Yes, he HAS to hit on the 1st round picks for this team to keep moving forward, and he HAS to do better than the previous regimes (cause they had some BAD picks). I'm just arguing (as are others) that we're in year two with Farmer as the GM, and thus far he really hasn't had any BAD moves yet other than the Manziel move (which may or may not have been his decision).
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I can one up that... 
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I've examined Farmer's past, going back to his playing days...and I have found NOTHING to change my perception, that Farmer is lacking in area of (judging) skilled offensive posititions..wr, QB.
JMHO...mac
In your examination of Farmer's past, (going back to his playing days), exactly where and when was he ever in charge of drafting/signing FA offensive skill positions before he was named the GM for the Browns? What did you expect to find? Oh, nevermind, I know, you expected to find that he was never in charge of drafting/signing FA offensive skill positions therefore nothing he'd done since his playing days could change your perception that he is lacking in area of (judging) skilled offensive posititions..wr, QB. That's kind of like me examining Pettine, all the way back to his playing days in high school, and I've found nothing to change my mind that he's never had a winning season in the NFL before being named the HC for the Browns.
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You guys are so twisted you can't see what is right in front of your own faces.
This team had some degree of success last year because of Hoyer, period and he isn't here anymore.
In my opinion the Defense last season had just as much if not more to do with the 7 wins than Hoyer did. 
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You guys are so twisted you can't see what is right in front of your own faces.
This team had some degree of success last year because of Hoyer, period and he isn't here anymore.
In my opinion the Defense last season had just as much if not more to do with the 7 wins than Hoyer did. We scored fewer points last year than we did the year before when we started Hoyer/Campbell/Weeden. (299 to 308) This was with a hugely improved run game last year, and with the defense creating turnovers at a far higher rate last year than in 2013, giving the offense more opportunities. We were 27th in points scored in 2013, and 27th in 2014 also. The defense, in 2013, allowed 406 points. Last year we allowed 337 points. We were 23rd in points allowed in 2013, and 9th last year. The defense was the predominant reason this team showed improvement last year.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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The facts/stats only matter if BTTB posts them
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kelso...in another thread you mention that it was a mistake for Farmer to allow Charles Johnson, WR, to be stolen off of the Browns practice squad.
Does that not reflect on Farmers ability to offensive talent at skilled positions?
I'm sure the Vikings are hoping the Browns continue to allow Farmer to judge our skilled positions...Charles Johnson is listed as WR#1, on their first team offense.
Farmer is literally helping the Vikings build their offense with key players Farmer didn't want on the Browns roster.
...and you and other followers believe Farmer does not need help..go figure.
As of today, Farmer has done a better job of helping the Vikings build a better offense than ours.
Farmers ability to judge offensive talent should be questioned and if he needs help, which I believe he does, it is better to add that help before the next draft.
For me, building the Browns into a winning franchise is the top priority.
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Just because you point out a teams record when a certain QB is starting doesn't make it a "fact" that he's the reason it happened..
Its a fact that we won more then we lost with Hoyer and its a fact that we lost nearly every game without him, now isn't it?
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j/c:
Despite multitudes of articles that indicate that Farmer picked Manziel, the majority refuses to believe it and will continue to keep saying that Haslam made the pick as if it is a fact.
It's hard to stop a mob!
This thread is ridiculous. The funniest part is all the apologists calling out anyone who questions any of Farmer's moves like those questions are unreasonable.
It's not even worth debating because it is pure nonsense.
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kelso...in another thread you mention that it was a mistake for Farmer to allow Charles Johnson, WR, to be stolen off of the Browns practice squad.
Does that not reflect on Farmers ability to offensive talent at skilled positions?
I'm sure the Vikings are hoping the Browns continue to allow Farmer to judge our skilled positions...Charles Johnson is listed as WR#1, on their first team offense.
Farmer is literally helping the Vikings build their offense with key players Farmer didn't want on the Browns roster.
...and you and other followers believe Farmer does not need help..go figure.
As of today, Farmer has done a better job of helping the Vikings build a better offense than ours.
Farmers ability to judge offensive talent should be questioned and if he needs help, which I believe he does, it is better to add that help before the next draft.
For me, building the Browns into a winning franchise is the top priority.
I missed the original post, that's why I didn't respond. Maybe I'm wrong, but isn't it the coaching staff that determines the final roster? and not the GM/Owner? I thought the pecking order was that the GM provided the players for the coaching staff, and they picked who played and who didn't make the final cut. If I'm wrong, and Ray Farmer had a hand in sending Johnson to the practice squad to get poached by Minnesota, then I'll gladly admit that Farmer is a quack and should be fired immediately!
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j/c:
Despite multitudes of articles that indicate that Farmer picked Manziel, the majority refuses to believe it and will continue to keep saying that Haslam made the pick as if it is a fact.
It's hard to stop a mob!
This thread is ridiculous. The funniest part is all the apologists calling out anyone who questions any of Farmer's moves like those questions are unreasonable.
It's not even worth debating because it is pure nonsense. You mention those of us who are ignoring the articles that suggest Farmer was responsible for the Manziel pick, yet there have been multiple articles posted also suggesting that Haslam DID have a big hand in selecting Manziel. Even if Farmer was a Manziel fan and wanted to take him, he's not the first GM to miss on a QB pick and he won't be the last. The guy still helped add a lot of quality players to this team last season, and he's still the guy who on paper drafted five players in the top 100 of most major draft boards this year. You're right though, the arguing is going in circles. I never intended to sound like I thought Farmer was a perfect GM -- Just that he did some good things in his first year, a lot more than the GM's before him. It just seems a little premature for fans to be riding his back after the type of players he added, and the type of season we had. Just like you -- I want a winning team and hope he gets us there. Simply put, he's done nothing to sway my faith in him yet.
Last edited by MrKelso; 06/03/15 07:04 PM.
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I've examined Farmer's past, going back to his playing days...and I have found NOTHING to change my perception, that Farmer is lacking in area of (judging) skilled offensive posititions..wr, QB.
JMHO...mac
In your examination of Farmer's past, (going back to his playing days), exactly where and when was he ever in charge of drafting/signing FA offensive skill positions before he was named the GM for the Browns? What did you expect to find? Oh, nevermind, I know, you expected to find that he was never in charge of drafting/signing FA offensive skill positions therefore nothing he'd done since his playing days could change your perception that he is lacking in area of (judging) skilled offensive posititions..wr, QB. That's kind of like me examining Pettine, all the way back to his playing days in high school, and I've found nothing to change my mind that he's never had a winning season in the NFL before being named the HC for the Browns.
He played safety at Duke, was drafted in the 4th round by the Eagles, played 3 seasons as a LB before suffering a knee injury that ended his career in 1998. Worked as scout with the Falcons and in pro personnel with the Chiefs before coming to Cleveland.
Farmers lack of experience on the offensive side of ball could explain his priorities when judging offensive talent.
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You mention those of us who are ignoring the articles that suggest Farmer was responsible for the Manziel pick, yet there have been multiple articles posted also suggesting that Haslam DID have a big hand in selecting Manziel.
haslam, farmer, pettine, and even loggins have all said it was ray farmers pick. out dated opinion pieces dont trump direct quotes from everyone involved. its settled, farmer made the pick.
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You mention those of us who are ignoring the articles that suggest Farmer was responsible for the Manziel pick, yet there have been multiple articles posted also suggesting that Haslam DID have a big hand in selecting Manziel.
haslam, farmer, pettine, and even loggins have all said it was ray farmers pick. out dated opinion pieces dont trump direct quotes from everyone involved. its settled, farmer made the pick. Posted by Mike Florio on May 16, 2014, 12:29 AM EDT Manziel AP Browns owner Jimmy Haslam didn’t give the order to draft Johnny Manziel. Unless he did. Despite an insistence from G.M. Ray Farmer that Haslam “at no point demanded, requested, tried to influence the process in any way,” quarterbacks coach Dowell Loggains said Thursday that, after Manziel sent Loggains a “come and get me” text, Haslam issued the directive.“As soon as that happened, Mr. Haslam said, ‘Pull the trigger. We’re trading up to go get this guy,'” Loggains told Bo Mattingly of ESPN Arkansas, via Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer.Click 
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You mention those of us who are ignoring the articles that suggest Farmer was responsible for the Manziel pick, yet there have been multiple articles posted also suggesting that Haslam DID have a big hand in selecting Manziel.
haslam, farmer, pettine, and even loggins have all said it was ray farmers pick. out dated opinion pieces dont trump direct quotes from everyone involved. its settled, farmer made the pick. Posted by Mike Florio on May 16, 2014, 12:29 AM EDT Manziel AP Browns owner Jimmy Haslam didn’t give the order to draft Johnny Manziel. Unless he did. Despite an insistence from G.M. Ray Farmer that Haslam “at no point demanded, requested, tried to influence the process in any way,” quarterbacks coach Dowell Loggains said Thursday that, after Manziel sent Loggains a “come and get me” text, Haslam issued the directive.“As soon as that happened, Mr. Haslam said, ‘Pull the trigger. We’re trading up to go get this guy,'” Loggains told Bo Mattingly of ESPN Arkansas, via Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer.Click "A source said Loggains never meant to make it sound like Haslam made the pick instead of general manager Ray Farmer. "Farmer definitely made the call,'' the source said. Instead, he wanted to convey how excited everyone in the organization was -- all the way to the top -- that Manziel was so eager to come here. Haslam corroborated that during a speech on Monday. "Ray's the one that picked Johnny Manziel," Haslam told the Pro Football Hall of Fame luncheon club on Monday. "We took the top-rated quarterback on our board when he was available. That was solely Ray's call, not my call."
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While we're posting quotes, you guys have it all wrong  Our super secret behind the scenes GM "Here in Cleveland, every where I go people know me," Paolantonio reported Haslam said. "And I was out to dinner recently and a homeless person was out on the street, looked up at me and said 'Draft Manziel.'"
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out dated opinion pieces dont trump direct quotes from everyone involved.
Thursday that, after Manziel sent Loggains a “come and get me” text, Haslam issued the directive. “As soon as that happened, Mr. Haslam said, ‘Pull the trigger. We’re trading up to go get this guy,'” Loggains told Bo Mattingly of ESPN Arkansas, via Mary Kay Cabot of the Cleveland Plain Dealer. Loggains So first you say direct quote trump opinion then you post" a source said" and imply it trumps a direct quote? Who was the"source"?
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chit i dunno. you got me there. thought i read it as a direct quote from him.
the horse is dead. nothing i say is gonna change your view haslam picked him, and nothing you say is going to make me believe he did.
lets both just hope that manziel can somehow turn it around, and we can argue about who was the genius who picked him...
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j/c...on the Haslam, Farmer, draft Manziel thing.
I mean the facts are there as we know it. I don't deny the facts but there is a possibility that ALL are telling the truth.
Obviously Loggains was set up to keep in contact with a player we were targeting. That fact that he was a QB coach I would assume he only was tracking our targeted QB/s we have no knowledge if it was more than Manziel.
This had to be set up by Pettine and Farmer.
Haslam who wanted to be part of the War room was in contact with Loggains as the War Room guys had to have their phones clear for other things as we were shaking and baking with trade scenarios.
Manziel told Loggains what he did...Loggains in turn told Haslam...Haslam part of the loop relayed exactly what Loggains stated to Farmer and company. So if anyone gave a DIRECTIVE it was Loggains...of course not.
This was just how the communication was set up with Manziel. If anything Haslam was simply a messenger in this process.
All of a sudden when Farmer says it was his pick he is a liar...that it was a directive from Haslam...not a directive, just passing on the important info as they were targeting Manziel for that 2nd pick.
If you all insist that it was a DIRECTIVE...guess what then Loggains made the pick - 
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You guys are so twisted you can't see what is right in front of your own faces.
This team had some degree of success last year because of Hoyer, period and he isn't here anymore.
In my opinion the Defense last season had just as much if not more to do with the 7 wins than Hoyer did. I have little doubt about that. Last years D not only helped us win those 7 but it also kept us in many games we ended up losing.
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It certainly is! Who cares at this point who made the call? We will never likely know anyway nor is it an essential piece of information... 
Last edited by bbrowns32; 06/04/15 08:00 AM.
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It certainly is! Who cares at this point who made the call? We will never likely know anyway nor is it an essential piece of information... It is if your trying to make Text look like he never made a bad draft pick.
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It certainly is! Who cares at this point who made the call? We will never likely know anyway nor is it an essential piece of information...
If mistakes and weaknesses within the franchise are just dismissed as the norm for doing business in the NFL, they are very likely to continue making the same mistakes, over and over, until the problem areas are addressed.
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At this point in the debate it's really just what people want to believe.
With Jimmy Haslams somewhat "shady" history and recent knee jerk reactions with this team (firing a regime one season in) would it really be that surprising if he had a Jerry Jones type of ego/influence behind closed doors? No. Not really.
I'll still argue that he hasn't had a "bad" draft pick simply because we're only in year two with him.
Manziel isn't likely to be pan out, but the door hasn't been closed on him completely just yet and yes he had a terribly disappointing season. Justin Gilbert showed improvement on the field but struggled off the field with the NFL life, but all signs point to him doing much better this off-season. The rest of the draft and UDFA's were solid as hell as previously mentioned.
Could the 1st round have been better? Sure it could have. Watkins & Carr would be great right now. But what he DID do last season was still pretty damn impressive.
I can't wait for training camp to start next month.
If mistakes and weaknesses within the franchise are just dismissed as the norm for doing business in the NFL, they are very likely to continue making the same mistakes, over and over, until the problem areas are addressed.
And again, Farmer is only in year two. It's not fair to hold him up to the fire and burn him because of all the failures of our prior GM's....
We're going in circles though (mainly me, and my head is spinning).
So I concede to this argument.
Last edited by MrKelso; 06/04/15 09:14 AM.
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kels...every GM has strengths and weaknesses that are very likely related to that GMs experience level.
I've never said Farmer should be replaced or fired because I believe Farmer has a lot pluses and few minuses. I feel strongly about the franchise doing a fair and honest accessment of their weaknesses.
A good example of someone within franchise taking a hard look at himself and addressing his weaknesses is Pettine...at some point in his first season, Pet decided he would become more involved with the offensive side of ball.
This is a man who realizes his weaknesses and is more than willing to do what is necessary to improve. Everyone, from Haslam down should be willing to do what Pet did...recognize their weaknesses and do what is necessary to improve themselves.
Haslam, Pettine and Farmer need to have a sit down to discuss what is lacking and how to improve in areas that show a weakness.
JMHO...mac
Last edited by mac; 06/04/15 10:36 AM.
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kelso...in another thread you mention that it was a mistake for Farmer to allow Charles Johnson, WR, to be stolen off of the Browns practice squad.
Does that not reflect on Farmers ability to offensive talent at skilled positions?
I'm sure the Vikings are hoping the Browns continue to allow Farmer to judge our skilled positions...Charles Johnson is listed as WR#1, on their first team offense.
Farmer is literally helping the Vikings build their offense with key players Farmer didn't want on the Browns roster.
...and you and other followers believe Farmer does not need help..go figure.
As of today, Farmer has done a better job of helping the Vikings build a better offense than ours.
Farmers ability to judge offensive talent should be questioned and if he needs help, which I believe he does, it is better to add that help before the next draft.
For me, building the Browns into a winning franchise is the top priority.
Last year, Farmer added the following contributing players to the offense: Miles Austin Taylor Gabriel Andrew Hawkins Jim Dray Isaiah Crowell Terrence West Joe Bitonio That is 7 guys who all started games for us last year, and produced. That's pretty good for just the offensive side of the ball, in year one of a GM's regime.
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Q kelso...in another thread you mention that it was a mistake for Farmer to allow Charles Johnson, WR, to be stolen off of the Browns practice squad.
Does that not reflect on Farmers ability to offensive talent at skilled positions?
I'm sure the Vikings are hoping the Browns continue to allow Farmer to judge our skilled positions...Charles Johnson is listed as WR#1, on their first team offense.
Farmer is literally helping the Vikings build their offense with key players Farmer didn't want on the Browns roster.
...and you and other followers believe Farmer does not need help..go figure.
As of today, Farmer has done a better job of helping the Vikings build a better offense than ours.
Farmers ability to judge offensive talent should be questioned and if he needs help, which I believe he does, it is better to add that help before the next draft.
For me, building the Browns into a winning franchise is the top priority.
Last year, Farmer added the following contributing players to the offense: Miles Austin Taylor Gabriel Andrew Hawkins Jim Dray Isaiah Crowell Terrence West Joe Bitonio That is 7 guys who all started games for us last year, and produced. That's pretty good for just the offensive side of the ball, in year one of a GM's regime. [font:Lucida Console][/font] yt...you forgot Farmers biggest addition to the offensive side, didn't you?
Again, if you can't draft the talent a team needs, GMs fall back on signing free agents who have a track record. To be successful in the free agent market, it takes an owner willing to outbid the competition.
There isn't a GM in the NFL that didn't already know that Miles Austin was a solid WR who could fill a need...signing Hawkins is another example.
Farmer did pass over some very good WRs in his first two drafts and the value he assigned to Johnson on the practice squad allowed the Vikings to steal him away from the Browns. Obviously the Vikings judged his talent and potential differently than Farmer did.
The Manziel pick speaks for itself and does nothing to convince me that Farmer should be the one who drafts our next QB.
I'm not saying Farmer has done a horrible job "overall".. Just that he needs some support when comes to judging the most skilled positions on offense. Fans need to understand what Farmers experience level is playing on the offensive side of the ball...Zero !!!
The Browns need to understand Farmers weaknesses and do what is necessary to help him.
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