DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Apartment Fliers Advise Black Residents to Keep Quiet

That's a bingo.

It's sad that somebody can get fired for making a statement like that. Not only was there probably no ill-intent, it's also so obviously correct to anybody who has a clue.

Take a list of the fastest 100m times ever. All of them are men of west African descent, no exceptions (unless it is a long list.)

This is attributable to a fairly comprehensive list of physical traits like higher testosterone in black males on average, higher fat free mass, generally higher fast twitch:slow twitch muscle ratio, higher insertion point in calves, etc. All of these are heavily based on genetics. How is acknowledging this racist or hurtful?

Being faster and more explosive (manifesting itself as quicker/faster acceleration, jumping higher, more powerful off the snap) is a big advantage in sports. It's not rocket science.

edit: I just watched the Jimmy the Greek segment that got him fired. He says quite a bit more than just what is written above. It blurs the line quite a bit. I don't really know much about the guy or the context in which it was said though.

one of the problems is that there's a difference between stereotypes for light hearted jokes, then using stereotypes to make serious opinions.

i know that's going to rub people the wrong way, but thats the reality.

Comedians do it all the time, with regards to racial jokes. even when whites poke fun at blacks its funny.

But then when you got people saying "blacks are better athletes". well ok.....you just pretty much said every other ethnicity sucks.

thats not a product of genetics so much as its a product of environment.

The reason African's dominate the olympics in track events is because of the environment they were raised/trained at. Look at black peoples' noses, in general, it's because of the climate that we breath in air better, plus the altitude. add in training, and well...it's gonna be hard to beat an person of African decent in a foot race.

But the same thing would've happened to whites if they settled in Africa over the course of centuries. Or Asians. or anybody else.

Same thing when people are like "whites are smarter than other groups".

ok....why? is it because of the brain? or is it because they generally have access to better education than everybody else?

Well the alternative is saying something along the lines of this: African-Americans dominate NBA/NFL because they are more likely to have grown up in poorer neighborhoods with less opportunities for advancement, so they work much harder at sports as it is one of the few ways for a young black male to make it big. In other words, blacks work hard and other ethnicities are a bunch of spoiled, lazy bums.

That is something I find more hurtful than just the acceptance that I'm a slow-twitched white guy. I'm 6'3", have worked out/trained regularly for most of my life, and was a great athlete at my suburban high school yet I've never been able to dunk a full-sized basketball on a legit 10-foot hoop. And that's perfectly fine by me. Insinuating that it's because I didn't train hard enough does kind of irk me (vertical jump is a highly genetic thing, it's a natural test of explosiveness and is only improvable to a fairly limited degree.)

Or here's another one that is highly relevant to the NBA: wingspan. A lot of people think that height=wingspan and this is only really a general guideline. Many black athletes have wingspans that are significantly longer than their height, which as you can imagine helps quite a bit when playing defense. This is almost unheard of in caucasian athletes but common in African-Americans. Look at the measurables on draftexpress of NBA players and you will see what I'm talking about.

I have noticed that Blacks are darker than Whites.
Even light skinned Blacks are darker than dark skinned Whites.

That would be because there are so many flavors of 'white' people. Being of German descent, I've been Nazi saluted most of my life. Italians are all spaghetti bending mafia. Irish are all spud sucking drunks. The British are all namby-pamby, pasty faced wimps. The Scots are all skirt wearing sheep buggerers. Russians are vodka sucking fatalists. The French are all cigarette sucking, snail sucking, grape stomping, surrenderers. The Swiss are all chocolate sucking clock makers. Let's not even mention the Polish, as we've all heard those jokes.

And I can't remember even one person ever losing their job over any of those jokes and jabs.

And then there's steelers fans.

There has been. The way white people are so sensitive to things. But, nationality isn't a protected status nor should it be.

the way "white people" are so sensitive? Uh...what?

Us red neck, cracker, Ned Flanders want to be's are not sensitive.

Ridiculous statement.

First of all, you should never complain about anyone else's gramatical errors again.

Nationality has never been a protected status, as we're all supposed to be Americans. The ones seeking protected status are the hyphenated peoples of this country, like African-Mexican-Asian-LGBT?-Americans.

I still remember a black guy I worked with complaining when the forms changed from 'black' to 'African-American'. He would say he wasn't from Africa, but he was British.

lol grammar remarks: the sign of a losing argument. Though you are correct, my grammar was atrocious in that post. "has been" lol

It looks like you don't understand that black people can be Americans. Also that "African-American" is not a nationality. It turns out that Africa is not a nation. Neither is "Native" nor "Asian" nor "LGBT". The amount that they're not a nation is astounding.

However, you did get one nation in there! Mexicans! Except, Mexican-Americans do not seek protection for being Mexican, but because they're Hispanic/Latin@. Just to make myself extremely clear for you, Mexican-Americans do not seek protective status because they're Mexicans.

Once again, reading is fundamental. I highlighted the section of my earlier post I am referencing. I clearly stated that nationality has never been protected, but the hyphenated currently are. Unless there is a 'Hyphenia' or 'Hyphensylvania', I don't see how I used a nationality at all, other than Mexican.

I would also like to know how you possibly could get that I don't consider blacks to be Americans from what I wrote. I would prefer they are just Americans, instead of hyphenated American. I would prefer that anyone that considers themselves American would just drop the hyphen.

Ha! Another lesson on Political Correctness from the Liberal Left.

As long as the hyphenated people refuse to take their lumps like the rest of us do, they will always be on the outside looking in, never really a part of American Society. Just like the whiny kid in the football locker room who tells the coaches on anyone who pokes fun of him.

Because we were having a conversation about nationality and protection? Did you miss that part? You stated that we're all "supposed" to be "just" Americans, which insinuates that gays, asians, africans, cannot be just American. Everyone knows that's false. And yes, you did use a nationality to claim protected status. So how was I suppose to know that in a conversation about nationality and protection, where you had already used a false example of a nationality claiming protection, that you didn't know that Africa wasn't a country? By mixing the issues, of sexual identity, race, and nationality you made it clear that you had no idea what you were talking about in the context.

Also, I wish white people would stop marginalizing groups of people so we could be "just" Americans Until the same laws, rules and regulations apply to everyone we can't be "just" Americans.

Also, just because I'm a fan of irony. The part that you bolded, in your post, includes a grammatical error. Don't take this as an insult. We're all human, but the irony is enjoyable.

Is this a real post? Do you know the history of America at all? Obvs not, but still. The Japanese-Americans didn't voluntarily put themselves in concentration camps during WW2 because they refused drop the hyphen. Anyone who isn't white and straight have had the hyphen branded into them to show them that they are not true Americans.

And before there was a safety net, the Irish-Americans lived in abject poverty as did the Italian-Americans. The Scottish-Americans were described as Low class barbarians dressed it skirts. How about the Polish-Americans and German-Americans? Asian-Americans were considered sub-human at one time.

All are integral parts of American Society today, on the inside looking out at the whiny kid.

I would like to know what gramatical error I made.

"You stated that we're all "supposed" to be "just" Americans, which insinuates that gays, asians, africans, cannot be just American. " How does me stating that we're all supposed to be just Americans exclude anyone? That is a statement of inclusiveness if I ever read one. I don't put the hyphens there, and I wish others would not put them there either. Your brand of liberal moronity knows no bounds.

I know full well that African isn't a nationality. I'm not the one that has tagged them all "African-American". As I stated in my previous post, I know a British guy that happened to be black, and it annoyed him that his choice on forms was limited to "African-American".

"Until the same laws, rules and regulations apply to everyone we can't be "just" Americans." I take it you're not a fan of Afirmative Action?

This would be a good case if they still didn't have it 100x better than actual minorities. Case and point: Hispanics have been part of this nation before America even had their first colony, yet they still live in abject poverty today. Not to mention they still had it much worse than Germans, Scotts, Irish and every other European back then until today and will also have it in the future. The whole "time heals all wounds" thing is a myth. Also, Asians are still seen as sub-human.

isn't liberal left kinda redundant?

You should try to use facts and not your personal feelings on other peoples.

"Peoples" implies multiple groups, but your hyphen connected the groups (you were trying to convey) as one group. It doesn't matter though.

You, yourself, did not put the hyphen there. That's kinda obvious and doesn't need to be say. However, you, as an un-marganlized group that has had all the privilege in the world, did put the hyphen on all of us. You did not personally oversee putting Americans of Japanese origins into concentration camps, but your people did. You did not personally oversee segregating Americans of African origin on buses, but your people did. You did not personally oversee any discrimination (I can't say that for sure, but other than you thinking Africa was a country you seem like a pretty decent bloke), but your people did and you contribute to that greatly. As someone who is making a profit on the marginalized groups in the nation, who is making no attempt to stop it, you are part of the problem. I know conservatives hate personal responsibility, but that's honestly how it goes.

Actually I am a big fan of affirmative action. I honestly don't understand how one couldn't be. The only note worthy person against affirmative action is Clarence Thomas, but considering he's only a Supreme Court Justice because he went to Yale (Last time I checked, all S.C. Justices attended either Yale and Harvard Law Schools). Yale took him in because of hard work and affirmative action. Thus raising someone who grew up in abject poverty because of racial discrimination to the most powerful Conservative judge on the S.C. Affirmative Action is needed to create a leveled playing field.

This is where you are wrong, The Hispanic-Americans now are carrying the U.S. economy by being the group producing the most small businesses in America. They are so close to being on the inside looking out that you can smell it like a tasty Burrito.

Where are the Asians-Americans and Asian Indian-Americans? The hospitals are full of them! Doctors, Surgeons, Medical Techs. Our high tech businesses are buzzing with educated Minorities!

Working your way up is the American way and joining American Society is only earned, not given!
Just ask the whiny kid who is always separating himself from the rest by thinking he should be given respect instead of earning it.
He can never be part of the whole and will always be resented as an outsider, trying to force acceptance on those who have earned their place, in spite of hardship, intolerance, and injustice.

What is false? Hispanics were the very first actual colonists. They've been here the longest and have had land the longest. However, when they became full members of the United States their land was taken by Scotts, Irish, Germans, Anglos, and French in Court. Not to mention all killings and lynchings that happened to hispanics or slavery (Hispanic describes origin, not race. Black hispanics do exist).

Hispanics and African-Americans are currently the two biggest discriminated groups in America. Almost a quarter of Hispanics live in poverty while less than 1/10th of Whites do. That's not even close to being on the inside looking in. It's obvious that your relying purely on anecdotal evidence and have never seen the facts. Use the fact that it's taken 3 years to drop 1% in poverty levels it would take Hispanics around 70 years in this economic situation (read: growing) to get where white people are today. That is no where close to the finish line. I find the way you talk about Hispanics to be extremely low class by the way. There's no reason to throw in the burrito line. However, it's not unexpected.

Honestly I find it funny that you think any race is outworking any race. Discrimination is real whether you like it or not.

I am not. It becomes a crutch, and an excuse mechanism. It tells certain classes that they don't have to be as good as another class, and even that they can't be as good, or capable as others. It also creates resentment among those who do what this country says to do, and excel, but are then passed over for jobs/promotions anyway, because of someone else's skin color. Further, it can cause many to look upon extremely talented and capable Black people, in positions of power, with the attitude that Affirmative Action must have been why they excelled, rather than by their own drive, determination, and work ethic.

There are many good reasons demonstrating why Affirmative Action is anything but affirming for those who are caught up in that particular system. It can actually become a stigma, even if a particular person never even used the system.

Well, you're right about one thing. Clarence Thomas is mainly against affirmative action because after he graduated from Yale Law School firms did not take him seriously enough because he was Black and graduated from Yale (But he's still a SC Justice, so I'm not sure what's going on).

Affirmative Action has only been around for 50 years in the United States. It's combating an entire history of disadvantage for minorities. It's slowly working and I've not heard one, real, credible argument against it.

You must consider those people sub-human to use such a term. They are just people that look different to me. The hispanics in this country at its founding were in the south west, from Texas to California. I doubt you would have found any in the north east, south east (with the exception of Florida, which we bought), and other such places. If you actually did your research, you would find that Europeans were in the Americas long before anyone else.

Hispanic means subhuman now? Well, the more you know. Hispanics don't even have to look different, my friend. Does Louis CK look Hispanic to you? That's kinda racist! Now do you want to end this childish game of trying to find something wrong instead of focusing on the argument?

Never said Europeans weren't in the Americas long before anyone else (Though that's a questionable statement depending on arbitrary time lines. You could equally say that Blacks were everywhere before anyone else as we're all decedents from Africa.) You're actually agreeing with me here. Spain was in Europe, at least the last time I checked. Hispanic denotes origin of coming from Spain, so there's no need to get mad when you agree with me.

I am not against spending more money, wisely, on early education programs, and on teaching kids in poor neighborhoods how to learn effectively. We should be looking at starting kids out effectively, as opposed to trying to catch them up artificially later. What I am against is throwing money into systems that have proven to be ineffective in reaching so many kids in poor and minority neighborhoods.

Until we do this, we will be forced into choices that are bad, worse, and worst. Affirmative Action is the worst "solution", because it is not a solution. It should have been a bandage, but it became a cast, and eventually turned into a crutch. My brother is in a civil service position, and he has worked his way up the ranks throughout the years. Fortunately he has not been passed over for promotions, because he has had exceptional scores on his tests for promotion, and has consistently scored at the top of his various groupings. However, he is immediately at a disadvantage against any minority, including Black people, Hispanic people, women, and so on. His score is immediately behind their scores before a single question has been answered.

I want the most qualified people possible in jobs that affect my life. I want the best possible people in jobs that my tax dollars pay for. This is not what always happens though. Improve the teaching as opposed to artificially inflating the results. That is how you get lasting, and meaningful change.

You're so out of touch with reality its becoming laughable.

you keep trying to sound educated on the topic, yet you forget the reason why affirmative action was created in the first place, and is STILL needed:

Whites weren't hiring minorities simply because they weren't white.

it's literally that simple, THATS the reason affirmative action was created. because there ARE well qualified minorities, but they weren't getting hired because of the color of their skin.

You want to beat around the bush with all this other nonsense instead of addressing why it was created, and why it's still needed.

CHS as you have brought up Asians a couple times in referencing them being involuntarily put in camps during WW2 and how they are still discriminated against (btw, Asians are not seen as sub-human. No ethnicity is seen as subhuman in modern day U.S. although the base case could probably be made for those of middle-eastern descent. That's typically manifests itself more as a religious angle than an ethnic one though.) Being at a disadvantage in some respects is very different than being seen as subhuman.

Back to Asians: It seems like you acknowledge that Asian-Americans have been treated poorly and discriminated against through their history, yet they have actually exceeded Caucasian prosperity in many social and economic categories (e.g. college degrees, advanced degrees, median income, high skill employment.)

As this is not something I spend a whole lot of time thinking about or researching, but seems to be a passion of yours, what has lead Asian-Americans to relative prosperity while African-Americans and Mexican-Americans still trail? Do I have a good grasp of the situation or am I completely off-base somewhere? Looking forward to hearing your response.

you gotta realize that what asians and hispanics have gone through pale in comparison to blacks.

Hispanics have a way easier time blending in with America simply because they look closer in appearance to whites. some hispanics you wouldn't even be able to tell.

on top of that, blacks were enslaved by whites exclusively past the 1600's, couldn't vote from whites, Jim Crow laws were SPECIFICALLY for blacks, the civil rights movement and such from blacks.

and there's still a lot of discrimination going on. those are completely different circumstances leading up to modern times. they can't even be compared, and it's frustrating when people do.

people bring up irish americans.....ok. they were discriminated against. but are we really trying to compare them to how blacks have been treated throughout the course of US History?

Native American's haven't integrated, either. Basically, the two demographics treated the worst by whites are still struggling with integration. it's not surprising in the least.

I don't deny that this has happened in some cases. I have no doubt that it has. However, business is notoriously cutthroat, and ruthlessly adaptive. If they can gain an advantage by hiring a certain person, then they will, no matter who or what he/she is. In the end, that is what most companies, especially major, successful companies, care about.

I stand by my point that we do not solve the problem by trying to improve outcomes without fixing the problems that lead to uneven outcomes. Maybe you disagree, and that is your right, but I don't see how you improve life for people by telling them that they don't have to be as good as other people, or that they don't have to produce at the same level as other people.

I believe that many factors come into play, not the least of which are factors like being raised by a child parent in a single parent home, lack of education, and an institutionalized system of welfare that provides disincentives to keep people from working to provide for themselves, a failure of many parents to "pre-educate" their children in their homes, prior to them starting school, and so on. Some of it is race, but I think that it is a small percentage of the overall picture.

I grew up poor. I made the decision, early on, that I would do everything I could to make sure that I was not poor as an adult. I saw this same drive in some of the kids I employed when I ran my last restaurant, but in others, they lacked this entirely. Some kids worked their butts off to get an education, and others gathered in groups to discuss where to get free stuff. You talk about White racism towards Black people, but what happens all too often when a Black person succeeds in the "White world"? How many times is a successful Black person who succeeds in the "wrong" occupations called some rather vile and vulgar names?

Perhaps there was a time when Affirmative Action had some merit, but those days have largely passed. Business today wants to succeed, and in most cases, that means getting the very best people they can hire.

You were in the military. If you were heading into battle, with your life at risk, would you want the best possible commander, one who excelled and was at the top of his field in strategy and success in winning while bringing his people home alive ....... or a minority commander who wasn't quite as good at these things ..... but who was Black? I suspect that you would want the very best commander, regardless of what race he is. Your fellow soldiers who are White would almost certainly feel the same way about a commander of a different race.

It is not a whole lot different for people whose lives depend upon their jobs. For the most part, most people want the best people they can have around them, because their jobs often depend upon the contributions of these people, regardless of their race. There may be some who cannot get past the idea that one race is automatically better or worse then another, and I do not dispute this, but I think that business wants the best people they can find, because they worship the bottom line.

I stand by my statement that we have to act early to help equalize the early development of children, and a part of that, at the very least, has to come from the parents.

That's a two way street.

If i was heading into battle, how would i know that the white commander was the best one?

what if the black guy or asian guy was a better commander, but they didn't get the chance because of their skin tone?

so now some soldiers die because higher ups wouldn't put in a minority commander.

every scenario you have has a counter.

you keep HOPING people will do the right thing, when history and reality has shown time and time again that isn't the case.

If excuses were Horses, Beggars would ride.

That's dumb.

Well, geez. I hope this isn't a passion of mine

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2012/06/19/the-rise-of-asian-americans/

That's a really good article I was reading while researching for this post. Honestly, I just summarized what it said along with some other data.


I think a lot of it has to do with demographics of the Asian-American community. The Asian-American community only makes up 5% of the population. Blacks and Hispanics are at 12% and 16%. That's a gigantic difference when we're in the 300 million people stage.

Asia has a small amount of the populous in the U.S., but have the largest amount of immigrants coming into the country. Currently 3/4ths of Asian-Americans were born in Asia. As of current, 70% of Asian Immigrants have a bachelor's degree from their country. Last year I read an article in one of the Times about Chinese immigrants maxing out a visa program for the first time ever. The Visa Program said that if someone foreign invested 1 million dollars into a U.S. business and created 10 jobs that the investor would get an automatic green card. So what we're seeing is a majority of Asian immigrants, at least recently -- but probably longer as a friend of many 2nd generation asian-immigrants who seem to all have parents who are doctors -- are already wildly successful both in education and in wealth.

Don't take me saying any of this as whining though. I love what I'm seeing. I just think the numbers, without the context of immigration, skews the perspective.