DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns mini camp...Phase 3: May 26-29, June 1-4, June 8-12

Coincidentily,His downfall happened about the same time as his yapping about a contract extension.I said this at the time;
"When a player starts concerning himself with payday,he forgets about Sunday."

deep passing https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/05/29/qbs-in-focus-deep-passing-2/

Very very interesting

Small Ball
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/05/27/qbs-in-focus-short-passing-2/

mid level throws
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/05/28/qbs-in-focus-intermediate-passing-2/

Hoyer excelled in the mid level game but was horrible in the deep ball and also below average in the short game.

Was very impressed with the stats on Teddy

route running, had a hard time catch the ball without falling to the ground.

OMG you are still blaming him for that Hoyer turd toss in the saints game lol I lost respect for the cult following that day.

Have to disagree with this. Our Oline totally broke down after Mack's injury. No backup plan and too much positional shifting on the Oline and also the offensive system in general caused most of the issues with QB protection and run blocking. JMHO.

We were still top 10 in pass protection without Mack (I believe 6th or 7th but a drop from 2) but our run game without him plummeted.

Yup... every defense we faced was stacking the line baiting us and daring us to throw while we tried and tried to open up the ground game with 20% of an NFL quality oline.

Tab you may not understand this because you don't want too. But I have a hard time watching the only let me say that again so you may (doubtful) understand. We just turned our backs on the ONLY QB to post a winning (not losing) record with this team sense 2007 for a QB that has done nothing but lose for 13 years that is with the exception of 2013 when he for the 1st and only time won more games then he lost 3-2 for the year.

I was fully on board with Bradford, and was relieved to see they had a plan to truly improve the position but that fell thru and we were once again looking at all that McCown has to offer (more losing). It wasn't a move up it was a move down. With Hoyer there was a damned good chance that he would bounce back he had it in him to win, he did win under some pretty damned tough conditions.

Hoyer was a good a chance as we had, and with McCown we got a 13 year career to look at, and it all points in one direction, LOSER. He plays scared and he has been a loser for all but one year of his career and you wonder why I prefer Hoyer to McCown? SERIOUSLY? Sorry but if you can't understand that then there isn't anything I can say that will change your mind.

You think Hoyer is the 4 game bad guy, I think he is the 10-6 good guy who hit a bump in the road (OK had a Train wreck) but Hoyer is a tough cookie he put up with a lot that wasn't right and made it work when nobody else could and his character and leadership was off the charts. He is the guy who would work to get it right and fix whats wrong and come out of the 4 games you base your entire opinion on better for the experience, because thats who he is. You gave up he never would and I love guys who will fight thru adversity. Hoyer was that guy who all his team mates were ready to run thru walls with and for and you wonder why I have a hard time watching that leave to be replaced by McCown.... And you all think I'm nuts...................

The reality for me is that you think this FO and staff are perfect in everything they do. I tried to warn you all about PF and who was right? This was a bad choice by the FO I still think the plan is to lose, thats why they drafted Irving so they have Macks replacement and they get the top pick in the draft and we go on to win multiple SB as a result. But this season is about losing sad to say.

Then you must live in some alternate reality because NO ONE has come even close to saying/suggesting/alluding to this.




And you tried to tell us how Banner was here to save the day and "be ready to be shocked". Were you right then too? Let me save you (and others on here) the suspense. You aren't omniscient so don't try to come on here acting like you have all the answers. You've said stuff on this board that was dead wrong and then go hide for a year until your next "All IN" pitch. To quote the legendary Austin Carr "Get that weak stuff outta here!!"

Hilarious.

I also told you all that Richardson was a BUM, and you didn't believe me then. Well who was right, come on confess. I was all in with Chud and had Hoyer not gone down (left that part out didn't cha) we would have shocked everyone we were on the verge but it's true I was wrong but I have been right far more then most of you have. And all while having an orginal thought which I have never seen ever come from you.

Never said anything about Banner good or bad so that is a bald faced lie. Whoops I spoke the truth..... Don't be offended I know its likely uncharted territory for you............

I agree with most of your points on Hoyer except for the embellishment. Guys did not want to run through walls for him, and he does not possess this awesome leadership that you claim he does.

But I do think he deserved to be the starter for the Cleveland Browns this year and get a chance to improve on last year. A chance to improve on his skill. A chance to improve on his leadership. And his confidence. When he lost his confidence, it was over.

But I believe the Browns are better with him than McCown.

Damn right I liked Richardson. Not denying that, particularly after his rookie year. The difference is I don't strut around telling people how dumb they are for not agreeing with me and saying how little football knowledge they have after going all in on Banner when he arrived. And yes, you did say Banner was the answer THE MINUTE the guy walked through the doors in Berea. You hated Holmgren so much (and justifiably) that anyone who followed was getting a statue built by you. It blew up in your face and you went into hiding only to pop back up again when Hoyer was on the outs.

Offended?... I'm not offended. This is just a message board. But if I ever do become offended, I can just follow your standard practice and go M.I.A for a year in the hopes that posters forget what I said and start from scratch.

Trent Richardson has since busted, that much is true, but was 950 yards and 11 TD's really a bust of a rookie year!? I didn't think so. I was really, really hurt when the guy was traded. They shipped off the #3 overall pick a mere 18 games into his career. Even worse, that extra pick turned into Johnny Manziel.

I had the hardest time figuring out why he was so damn hard on himself after bad performances. You could tell with his body language in the media after certain games that he was flustered and unhappy. Agree with you on the first part though, he was kind of a diva at times after losses. Never really sucking it up and taking blame for his bad performances.

I would like it if Hoyer were still here, but I don't think him being gone is the end of our season though.

why do we keep arguing about the past like we was any good since 99?

we had 2 winning seasons since 99, yet nobody wants to argue those teams, only the craptastic ones.

People will tell you the 2007 team was craptastic.

That was the most fun I've had as a Browns fan since the early 90s. Right up until Game 16.

I thought this post was about updates from mini camp not crabbing back and forth about the past..... silly me looking here for camp news.

Sorry BUT I was no fan of Banner. Having said that Banner did a decent job I had no ax to grind pro or con on the guy your either lieing or your memory is playing tricks on you but me a big Banner guy nope sorry wasn't me.

Finally some honesty thanks Rish, its impossible to debate when for some unknown reason people hate on the guy when he was the only guy we had here that we actually won games with since 2007. What that says is its been hard next to impossible for this team to just win to let and or endorse Hoyer not being here IMO is insane......

I think the answer you're looking for is easy to see if you break down the actual play by position. Since we actually scored less points in 2014 than in 2013, it's no wonder people weren't wowed by Hoyer. If you look at how our WR's had to stand there like they were waiting on punts for those long passes, it's hardly a wonder people weren't wowed by Hoyer. If you look at the rushing game early in the season and the amount of rushing TD's verses passing TD's inside the 20, or period for that matter, it's no wonder people weren't wowed by Hoyer. If you look at the complete breakdown in his mechanics as the season wore on, it's no wonder people weren't wowed by Hoyer.

Actually, unless you narrow down to what you're looking at based strictly on the teams W/L record, without considering every other facet of the game, it's no wonder people weren't wowed by Hoyer.

I'm dying..

Browns rookie running back Duke Johnson practices Monday after missing OTAs last week

Browns rookie running back Duke Johnson reported to team headquarters Monday for organized team activities and practiced after missing OTAs last week.
Nathan Zegura, the team’s senior media broadcaster, revealed the news on the organization’s radio show, Cleveland Browns Daily.
Practice was closed to the media Monday, but it’ll be open to reporters Tuesday.
Of the 12 players the Browns recently selected in the NFL Draft, Johnson is the only one who has yet to sign his rookie contract. However, his absence last week at OTAs, which are voluntary, wasn’t related to his contract.
Johnson, a third-round pick, dealt with a family matter in Washington, D.C., his agent, Alex Gavilla, told Cleveland.com last week. Then he attended the NFL Players Association Rookie Premiere in Los Angeles.
Johnson, the University of Miami’s all-time leading rusher, is expected to compete with second-year running backs Isaiah Crowell and Terrance West for a prominent role in new offensive coordinator John DeFilippo’s system. Special teams coordinator Chris Tabor wants to give Johnson plenty of opportunities as a kickoff returner and is teaching him the intricacies of returning punts as well.
“I think going to the Browns, other than the weather, is a great situation,” Johnson said Friday during a video interview with 120Sports.com. “Coming from Miami to Cleveland is kind of big difference in some aspects, but I think me coming to the team, I can help out anyway I can from special teams, kick return, punt return, running back, you know, whatever it takes to help the team win.”
The 5-foot-11, 225-pound Crowell (148 carries, 607 yards, 4.1 average, eight rushing touchdowns) and the 5-10, 227-pound West (171 carries, 673 yards, 3.9 average, four rushing touchdowns) showed promise, at times, as rookies. But the 5-9, 210-pound Johnson is considered a different type of back who can help the offense as a formidable receiving threat, especially on third down.

The Browns finished last season with the fewest receptions (32) and receiving yards (226) among running backs in the NFL, according to the Elias Sports Bureau. DeFilippo has said he wants to use the backs as receivers more often.

“I think that’s one of the reasons the Browns did decide to draft me was because they needed that element in their offense,” Johnson told 120Sports.com. “I think they watched the Super Bowl just like we all did and saw what [running back Shane] Vereen was able to do to help the [New England] Patriots win. And that’s something they’re trying to implement in their offense.”
Vereen, who signed with the New York Giants this offseason, had 52 catches for 447 yards and three touchdowns this past regular season. He added 18 catches for 144 yards in the playoffs, including 11 receptions for 64 yards in the Patriots’ 28-24 Super Bowl win over the Seattle Seahawks.
Johnson wasn’t the only rookie who practiced for the first time since OTAs began.
Wide receiver Vince Mayle, a fourth-round pick from Washington State University, practiced on a limited basis Monday after sitting out last week, Zegura said. Mayle donned a red jersey designated for players who aren’t supposed to engage in any contact and didn’t catch passes, according to the team’s radio show, because he’s recovering from a recent surgery on his right thumb. He suffered a broken thumb during Senior Bowl week in January.
Two-time Pro Bowl cornerback Joe Haden and veteran inside linebacker Karlos Dansby didn’t practice Monday, Zegura said without explaining their lack of participation. A team spokesman later said neither player is injured. Both of them practiced last week.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/browns...t-week-1.596671

The Browns finished last season with the fewest receptions (32) and receiving yards (226) among running backs in the NFL, according to the Elias Sports Bureau.

j/c:

A couple of thoughts:

--A lot of people on this board preach that we need continuity. That is a HUGE part of their argument when defending Farmer. I get that. It makes sense and I actually agree w/that line of thinking.

However.......

--Those same people were the ones screaming bloody murder to remove Banner from his job after just one year. That seems a bit odd.

--And those very same people are the ones who didn't want to give Hoyer time to prove himself. The guy had a 10 and 6 record as a starter vs. 1 and 15 for all the other starting QBs for the Browns during the same time period, yet they point to a FOUR GAME STRETCH where he sucked as proof that he was not the answer. That's more than odd.

Think about it for a minute. They preach continuity when defending Farmer, but didn't even give Banner a year despite him making some terrific moves and then throw the QB who had the best winning percentage under the bus for a 4 game stretch.

And then people wonder why I say that so many posters on this board are hypocritical. LOL

--One more point........I wonder if losing Mack, Gordon, and Cameron for long stretches of the season had anything to do w/our scoring fewer points last year than the year before or if it was ALL Hoyer's fault? Is that more sound logic?

Yeah, most teams would score more points while losing 3 Pro Bowlers, right guys?

I yi yi yi............

Im confused. I thought he did NOT impress you. Where you are drafted has to do with expectations. He was u drafted and I had low expectations of him. He heavily outperformed my expectations and was therefore very impressed.

If you give him the credit for 10-6 then he has to also take the blame for fewer points too.

funny. not only you but alot have said the only stat that counts is wins. and now.........

And your point is?

Now Vers if you want to get along with folks here your going to have to stop doing some things:

#1 Stop making sense

#2 Endorse everything and all things done by the FO

#3 Stop thinking for yourself and develop a mob mentality.

#4 Ape whatever anybody in the mob says pro FO is the flavor of the day (subject to change)

#5 When the mob says its OK then you can have an opinion

#6 When the whole thing implodes wait for them to lead you by the nose to why it was a disaster

Get on board with all of that and you will have lots of friends who you can sip Kool Ade with.

#7 Oh gee and most importantly of all be ready to switch over to they all suck and fire everyone as the losses pile up. Be a team player.

Tab this is the only time your likely to ever hear this from me but I think PS nailed it on that post. They did create issues with moving Greco and it was bad enough that they quickly moved him back to guard and as a guard Greco is Ok and is a much better player with Mack next to him. I think his point about not making adjustments is valid as well, but go ahead and point out those adjustments because I missed them?

I think Mourg is using the quick reply which always responds to the OP instead of the person the reply was intended for. I wish the board would remove that feature. It's too easy to misuse.

I think this is a fair point although I don't know specifically if the same people that are preaching continuity wanted Banner gone. Who are those people specifically?

I can tell you that I was someone who didn't mind being like most others and enjoyed getting my pitchforks out. Demanding perfection. No excuses. You either nail it or I'm going to complain about you until you're gone. I've been that person before. If I could go back in time I would change my position on a lot of things. Complaining and whining comes easy and is therapeutic in a sense. Patience and understanding is hard. It's not easy to preach continuity in the face of stupidity like text gate and letting Hoyer walk and drafting two guys who had the maturity of my 8 year old cousin.

But I came to realize that continuity is the only thing that is going to save this franchise. We cannot develop players and coaches without continuity. Why does it seem like other teams have better players and better coaches? Because those people get to grow into their roles. They get to develop under stable conditions. This is a normal human thing. When starting something new, it takes time to figure it all out and be great at it. I've got news for most everyone, for every JT who is going to be awesome no matter what the circumstances are, there's 19 other guys who can be awesome under the right conditions and are going to fail under the wrong ones.

Stability is the only thing that is going to save this franchise. I can't buy off on the notion that every regime we have hired has been the wrong decision and incompetent. We just gave up on people too easily. I finally realized that.

I have a couple of articles regarding this- if anyone is interested, just PM me. I'd rather not go too far off on a tangent with this thread, as I admittedly can do from time to time.