DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum NBA Finals Discussion

I look at most things through a critical lens.

Some seem to think that if the bench can't perform at the same level as Kyrie and Kevin, then it must be a bunch of bums.

We had to remove Thompson from the bench to start. He was our "super sub" kind of guy. That hurt the bench a great deal. Then, instead of having a guy like Delly play 5-10 minutes/game, he has been forced to play 30+ in many games. He has actually given a pretty good account of himself overall. Either Smith or Shumpert is a bench guy, and a really good one. I actually think that Smith is excellent in that role, because most nights he can come in and immediately get buckets.

So, our bench should be Thompson, Smith, and Delly. Throw in Jones to be a situational outside shooter, and that's actually a pretty darn good bench. I don't get how people look at that group as a weakness. Are they the starters? Well, in some cases, yes, they are playing at that level. Thompson has played well as a starter. JR played really well as a starter. Delly has given really good games off the bench. I don't know what some people expect.

ISO ball slows Golden State down and makes them run half court offense. If we're gonna win, we've gotta make them execute their offense.

Drive you nuts? lol, how about the homers that think like you that we have a good bench, regardless of having a horrible bench all year based on statistics. We are right at the bottom of the league..and that was with everyone healthy, meanwhile GS is near the top. I don't care, say I'm negative or whatever, but I'm realistic, the difference for us is the bench, thats what will cost us to lose, on top of the injuries. Like I've said, it is what it is, We will have to come back next year and hopefully stay healthy. No doubt in my mind a 100% Cavs team wins this series..the problem is we aren't. Spin however you want, but bottom line is our bench isn't good enough to carry us even if they shouldn't be in a position to do it anyways. But thats what it's come down to. Hell Golden state has David Lee not even playing, he could start for us.

During the regular season, our bench was largely 3 players ...... Thompson, Shumpert, and Delly.

Our starters played a fair number of minutes.

Mozgov played 25 MPG
Kyrie played 36.1 MPG
Lebron played 36.1 MPG
Love played 33.8 MPG
Smith played 31.8 MPG.
Thompson played 26.8 MPG

There are 48 available minutes in a regulation game. In a regulation game, there are a total of 240 available minutes. Our starters and Thompson account for 189.3 MPG. That means that everyone else, Shumpert, Delly, James Jones, and the rest accounted for an average of 50 minutes/game. (approx) Included in this average is the fact that we often blew out opposing teams, and our "scrubs" got additional playing time.

One downside of having a "Big 3" is that you are then limited in what you can do with the rest of the roster. However, instead of having this stop him, Griffin added players like Mozgov, Smith, and Shumpert. We had previously added guys with experience, who would play for a minimum contract. That is the kind of players we could add.

I am curious as to who you would have added given the limitations of the cap. What moves would you have made?

Please, elucidate.

My problem with the bench is....Blatt decided not to have guys already on our roster playing meaningful minutes to get a good rotation.

Same problem they had with Thibs in Chicago.

We had Perkins, Marion, Miller that could've played some meaningful minutes when they came to the squad, keep players fresh. I mean look at GS, they had a whole other 5 players off the bench, but the difference is these guys were getting work in the RS and in the playoffs.

why didn't we do the same thing?

I think Marion and Miller will get PT game 2.

Marion and Miller both had stretches of meaningful minutes throughout the season. Marion got hurt at one point, and that shut him down for a while.

Marion actually received significant minutes for an extended period of time. From October 31 into January, he played at least 15 minutes per night with the exception of 4 or 5 games. He never really contributed from a scoring standpoint though.

Miller also received significant minutes from November 21 to January 11th. He was playing 20-30 minutes fairly consistently but scored in double digits only once.

I think that Marion was so-so, and wound up out of the rotation in favor of Thompson and Jones .... and Miller just did very little with the time he was given. By all accounts, though, both guys have been great bench guys, being the first to celebrate the accomplishments of their teammates.

As far as Perkins, he doesn't really fit the scheme we play. We go with only one big fairly often, and that puts Mozgov on the bench more often that I would prefer. The minutes just aren't there for a guy like Perkins. He is slower, as an older big man, and while he does have some situational value. I think that it is only situational.

I also don't know how deep a coach can go into his bench in the playoffs. Starters usually go deeper in games in the playoffs, and the benches typically get shorter.

I just hope this whole situation is a learning experience for Blatt. Use your bench more and rest your work horses.

I hope there's some funny "God Hates Cleveland" articles. Because the "God Hates Cleveland" story line is about to big (Especially if we lose Love).

Ouch.

The Cavs didn't have much of a chance even if Irving was fully healthy. Now he's gone completely. This might be a sweep.

For those who don't know .... *sigh*

Well, we're just going to have to bury this curse the hard way.

Kyrie Irving to have surgery, out 3-4 months with fractured knee cap - CBSSports.com
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-bask...actured-kneecap

Cleveland Cavaliers guard Kyrie Irving left Game 1 of the NBA Finals on Thursday, and the team announced on Friday that he'd suffered a fractured knee cap and would need surgery. He will be out for three to four months.

When the Cavs met with the media on Friday, Irving was still being evaluated. The news had not been announced, and Golden State Warriors forward Harrison Barnes said his team was preparing as if Irving would play. Cleveland was already preparing for the worst.

"The good thing about it is we've been in this position before," Cavaliers forward LeBron James said. "We're not quite sure right now. If he's not able to go, it's something that's not new to us. So next man up."

The Cavs were without Irving for two games against the Atlanta Hawks in the Eastern Conference finals, and he was limited by knee tendinitis before that in the playoffs. He had 23 points, seven rebounds, six assists and four steals in the Finals opener, plus two blocks on MVP Stephen Curry. Cleveland was completely dysfunctional in the nine minutes where he sat on the bench, and this will be a major, major blow.

And you left off Verajao...

Starting 5:
Mozgov
Love
James
Shumpert
Irving

Bench:
Varajao
Thompson
Smith
Jones
Delly...

That's a championship team.

F.

Who said there is no such thing as a curse?......


....Damn.

j/c:

--Man, losing Kyrie, especially against GS, is a huge, huge loss. I am not at all superstitious, but you gotta wonder.

--Did someone really call us homers? Dude, we are in the NBA Finals one year removed from being a Lottery team. How are going to rag on the FO for that? I read all the apologists for the Browns who can't even sniff the playoffs and then come over here and see guys ripping a team that is playing in the Finals. Weird.

--YTown and DC bring up good points about our bench. I think the FO did a really good job of improving the roster in ONE year.

--I know Blatt loves Delly, but I do think we may want to look at getting a quicker, back-up PG who can defend.

--If we win this series w/out Kyrie and Love, LeBron might just cement himself as the greatest ever.

Delly's strength is his defense. He can defend the 1-3, and had occasionally taken the 4 on defense as well. he is an absolute pest on defense.

If he can be a successful transition in this series offensively, Delly will get a statue before Lebron.

*Sigh*

This really sucks. Golden State, a team that didn't even look that great yesterday, is going to get handed a championship.

They dodged the Spurs, and got Memphis when they were banged up. So really, they beat the Rockets and got a trophy. Unreal.

The Cavs were the better team in regulation yesterday. They got jobbed on a few calls, and screwed up a few really good situations that they had fall in their lap.

I'm just so tired of this.

Does anyone really think that the 1st Cleveland Championship is so long is going to be a case of everything going right, and us waltzing into one?

No way.

We are going to have to fight, scrape, and yes, even battle for every win we can get.

Time to get ready for game 2. We beat the Hawks without Kyrie, and we won games against Chicago with Kyrie banged up. Time to put "all for one" into full effect.

I like Delly, but he lacks quickness and we will get destroyed if he continues to go under the screens rather than over. Golden State's guards shoot it to well. We need more quickness, especially defensively, at that position.

I am not complaining............just saying....

They have been the best team the entire season. I don't know how that is being handed a championship. They were probably going to win no matter who they played throughout the playoffs.

Because being the best team all years always equals a championship.

This team has had a pretty easy road to a championship.

This isn't about defense or toughness when comparing Delly or Kyrie. It's about offensive output, in my opinion. Delly, although he had a couple nice games in the playoffs, does not equate anywhere near Kyrie.

We were able to dodge that w/ Chicago and Atlanta. But neither team is close to Golden State in a number of different ways. This (offensive output) will be a factor in the upcoming games and a factor I don't think we can even neutralize, let alone overcome.

Man, this has been a depressing evening.

This series is not over.

Additionally, losing Love was a huge loss for us.

Furthermore, losing Kyrie was another huge blow.

I am not bad-mouthing Golden State, but in my estimation [and I am NOT a homer] would have most likely beaten Golden State.

I think it is unfair to disrespect the Cavs at this point. How well would have San Antonio fared all those years w/out Parker and Ginobli?

Boston w/out Parrish and McKale?

LA w/out Worthy and Kareem?

Miami w/out Wade and Bosh?

Take Shaq away from Miami or LA.

We had a fearsome Big Three. Losing two of those guys is significant and should not be so easily dismissed.

In the NBA? Pretty much.

They had to play Anthony Davis in the first round. The Grizzlies, who beat the crap out of teams, in the second round. And the MVP runner-up in the third round. Could it have been harder? Yes. But you can only play the teams that are placed in front of you.

The Warriors were historically good the entire season. Let's not take that away from them because we are bitter that Irving got hurt.

Next year the West should be even more fun with Durant coming back (with a real coach), Anthony Davis in Gentry's system, and improving young teams (Jazz, T'Wolves).

The Cavs should own the East as long as LeBron is around.

Yes. It is.



With a healthy Love and Irving it would have been very close. The Warriors probably still would have won. It stinks that we didn't get that series.



No one is dismissing it. It is a huge deal. The Cavs had very little chance going into the series, without Irving they have no chance. I am not sure what your point is in bringing up all these other teams. Of course their chances would have been worse without their best players.

(Is McKale a healthier version of McHale.)

You are the same guy who kept telling us ALL YEAR how Atlanta was going to destroy the Cavs and how similar they were to Golden State.

Thanks for the spelling lesson, though.

I believe I compared Atlanta to the Spurs.

Also, if you think that that Atlanta team the Cavs played in the playoffs was the same team that was playing in mid-season you are kidding yourself. If we are not allowed to change what we think of a team based on how they play, then we are all screwed.

Blah, blah, blah.

You are a walking contradiction.

And if you don't get the comparison of thinking about how Championship teams that had teams that had a Big 3 and what would have happened had they lost two of those guys.....well then, you are simply being obtuse.

I think we'really a Mozgov skull fracture away from getting the head, shoulders, knees and toes street-clothes superfecta.

Business as usual for Cleveland.

The Curse is Forever in all sports.

Live it. Learn it. Love it.

Yes it's only one game, but concerns are valid. After all, there is a reason this city has not had a championship in decades, because these teams always choke.

Choke?

yea...choking and getting smacked with the injured hammer are two vastly different things, dunno what he's talking about.

At least you are consistent.

They beat a banged up Memphis team, and most likely will beat up a really banged up Cavs team. Oh but the played Athony Davis.

Sometimes, I think you just come on here to troll.

As far as the rest of this series goes, the Cavs have to go balls out on the defensive end. I think they're still capable of that, but the catch is that they have to limit the bad offensive possessions that come in bunches. That's what sparked the Warriors' runs last night. Hitting open shots in transition.

On the offensive end, you need Lebron to be great. He needs to do a better job of getting his guys good looks. People are ragging on JR, but I really didn't like the looks he got last night. The Warriors refusal to double Lebron played into it, but I still think with better movement, he can find his guys. Same goes for James Jones. I didn't like the looks he got either. Both shooters are capable of playing better, there's no doubt in my mind, they just have to be set up better.

I really love Iman Shumpert. I know we have a crap ton of moves/decisions to make in the offseason, but he should really be at the top, or at least just behind matching TT's offer. The Kevin Love stuff will work itself out, because it's his own decision (still think he comes back for a year)

JVG made a interesting point during the game last night.

in every series, GS played against an injured/can't play PG. NO's had an injured PG, Conley from memphis was injured, and Beverly from Houston couldn't play.

now it's Irving.

When people talk about the Cavs having it easy in the playoffs, i can't help but think "well, so did GS".