DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Johnny Manziel...continued again!...

R

bone...you the title of this thread???

The title is Re: Johnny Manziel...continued again!...

BONEFISH..DID YOU CLICK ON THIS THREAD ???

If you were not forced to click on this thread to make your comment...it means you made the decision to click on this thread..it was YOUR CHOICE to click and comment on this Manziel thread.

Do understand the point I'm trying to get across to you ?

As long as Manziel is on this team, there is very good chance that there will be a Manziel thread on this message board.

YOU, sir...have a decision to make !

The subject of the discussion was out of Pettine's earshot. When he found out about it he was angry. He then had his talk to Farmer telling him that he was very displeased about the texting and that he would not accept it. They "worked it out".

Does that sound like a coach who would buckle under allowing the Owner and GM to override his authority to control who sits and who plays?



• First, we don't know that was "all" Hoyer wanted. There's always the money and contract years to be negotiated.

• Second, from where did you learn that "management insisted that there would be no talk of COMPETITION at the QB position"? To me, that sounds more like you having surmised something on the basis of a Conspiracy Theory which you have also surmised.


Back to the FO not wanting any competition at the QB psoition...

So far what we have heard has been Pettine wanting Manziel taking the "baby steps" and not concerning himself with competition while it was Farmer who has said he wants Manziel to compete seeing no reason to hold him back.




Well, if Johnny's in what would be the point of texting... "when you gonna put Johnny in"?

Unlike you, when Johnny does start I believe it will be Pettine making that call or due to an injury to McCown if McCown does actually start the season.

I also believe that when Johnny does start you'll use that as your "proof" that Haslem and Farmer decided it's time.

Nate Ulrich ‏@NateUlrichABJ 1h1 hour ago
#Browns HC Pettine said McCown has been better than advertised. Said until we find long-term QB, don't think we could do better than Josh.

Nate Ulrich ‏@NateUlrichABJ 1h1 hour ago
#Browns GM Ray Farmer raves about Josh McCown as the right guy for team b/c he can lead and support. Ray said he values servant leadership.

I really don't have time to get drug down into your rabbit hole on this... this is the same direction it takes ad naseum.

its pretty simple
first step - texts took place... your first response... yeah we know that.

last step it pissed off the coaches... yeah we know that, so much so one coach left... got it.

The step I and others wonder is the what was said in those texts...

That is all... you can try and make an argument based on givens and agreed upon points but that is really just mental masturbation... really it's Saturday ... done four hours of yard work.. another 2 to go and tomorrow we go to Cancun for a week... so have fun with this.

Cancun!!!!!!!!!! have fun!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry mac, I'm not about to waste my time on that. We already know there is no QB competition. What you're not going to find is your reason for that being so.

You started out saying the reason for that is so Manziel can be the starter without having to compete to win the job.

You're saying something different now but I forget what your new reason is to make a big deal out of no competition and how that gives Manziel an advantage.

Whatever it is I'm sure it'll be a stretch. You suppose certain things are true without any evidence to confirm it. That in itself is ok, it's called belief. But you claim your surmises are absolute truth yet have nothing to back it up.

Believe away. We all do that. You just can't proclaim your beliefs as facts.

Yup

Manziel has little to no chance to succeed in the NFL.

You will be able to have all your Ford needs catered to at Manziel Ford in College Station within the next two or three years.

Manziel won the home run derby at Joe Haden's charity softball game. Somehow someone will turn that into a negative thing.

"Why isn't he studying his playbook?"

"They sell beer at baseball stadiums!"

Johnny Manziel Signed a Baby's Onesie Without Incident

http://thebiglead.com/2015/06/06/johnny-manziel-signed-a-babys-onesie-without-incident/

While I understand that the media has been unfair to Manziel, it's kind of hard to knock them when they fixate on a guy who has been screaming at the top of his lungs for people to fixate on him.

"Look at me" is a two way street.

Coach Mike Pettine, GM Ray Farmer speak as if the Browns are all in with Josh McCown as their starting QB this year

CLEVELAND: A month ago, Mike Pettine labeled veteran journeyman Josh McCown the favorite to become the Browns’ starting quarterback heading into the upcoming season, but the coach isn’t stopping there.
Now Pettine is essentially labeling McCown the best “bridge” starter the Browns could have possibly found this offseason.
The manner in which Pettine and General Manager Ray Farmer gushed over McCown during a Browns Fan Fest panel discussion Saturday at the Cleveland Convention Center suggests he might be more of a virtual lock to start the Sept. 13 regular-season opener at the New York Jets than a mere favorite. There hasn’t been even a hint of a competition between McCown, 35, and backup Johnny Manziel, 22, in spring practices, and if the most recent endorsement McCown received from the team’s brass is any indication, a position battle won’t magically materialize this summer during training camp, either.
“Until you feel you’ve found what you would call a long-term solution [at quarterback], I don’t think we could have done any better than bringing in a guy like Josh McCown,” Pettine said in front of hundreds of fans who gathered around a stage to listen. “To me, time will tell, but there’s so much that he does behind the scenes that people just can’t appreciate from everything you talk about -- leadership, all the intangible stuff. He’s truly a team guy. He’s all about winning football games.
“It’s like having another coach on the field, and it’s all genuine. That’s the thing you like the most. Despite his age, people that have been at practice agree, he can still spin it. We didn’t just look to bring in a guy who was just going to be a mentor. We wanted a guy who we think can still play a little bit if you put him in the right circumstances. He’s been more than advertised.”
McCown owns a record of 17-32 as a starter in 12 NFL seasons, but the Browns signed him to a three-year, $14 million contract in February because they believe he can stabilize the position in the aftermath of Manziel, the 22nd overall pick in last year’s draft, struggling as rookie and spending more than 10 weeks this offseason in an inpatient rehabilitation facility specializing in alcohol and drug addiction treatment. McCown’s deal includes $6.25 million guaranteed with $5.25 million guaranteed this year.
“I’ll tell you that [McCown is] different than anybody I’ve ever been around in the National Football League,” Farmer said. “He is a special, special person. He is the right guy, in my mind, to have on this Browns team. He can lead. He can support. One of the things that’s big in my life is servant leadership. You’ve got to part of the group to serve the group, and he’s that.
“He’s learned a lot of good ways to attain success in this league, and he’s benefited from it. As he goes about his business ... he’s doing it in a systematic way that’s going to allow him to be the best player he can be for the Browns, but also in a way that’s going to allow others to grow with him.”
In a perfect scenario for the Browns, McCown would play more like he did in 2013, when he went 3-2 with the Chicago Bears, than he did last season, when he went 1-10 with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. And Manziel would improve on and off the field in the meantime.
The discussion with Pettine and Farmer didn’t end with their hopes for the quarterbacks. Below are some other highlights from the duo’s appearance.
Confident in depth
The Browns embarked on a mission this offseason to improve the depth on their roster.
“Everybody’s top 22 [players], if you want to say offensive and defensive starters, are relatively in the same ballpark,” Farmer said. “It’s 23 through 45 that really make the difference on an NFL team. When one guy gets hurt and the next guy comes in, you can’t fall off the cliff.”
Pettine and Farmer believe they have achieved their goal.
“I’ve gotten with some of the coaches, and we’ve done the math,” Pettine said. “You realize that getting [the roster] down to 53 [players] will be a challenge.”
Speaking specifically about a deep secondary, Farmer added, “There will be players on our roster that will play in the National Football League that will not play for the Browns this year.”
Extra points
*Farmer offered a bold prediction. “I think we’re right there on the cusp of being one of the better defenses in this league,” Farmer said. “... We can be one of the best defenses in this league without question.”
*Pettine described the running backs as a motivated, talented, deep group, which includes second-year players Isaiah Crowell and Terrance West as well as rookie Duke Johnson. Farmer praised Johnson’s playmaking ability and supreme confidence. “I think he’s going to be tremendous for us,” Farmer said of the third-round pick.
*As the panel discussion wrapped up, Pettine said, “One other thing: Go Cavs!” He raised a fist in the air as the crowd cheered.

http://www.ohio.com/sports/browns/coach-...s-year-1.598134

most likely that the toilet paper dispenser in the executive restroom was empty and it was Shanahan's turn to replace it...

Now, there is a reason to get excited.

People are getting on the Cavs who are playing in the NBA Finals and who improved the team by bringing in LBJ, Love, Smith, Shumpert, and Mozgov in one year, yet the Browns bring in Josh McCown as the answer at qb for this year and it's okay.

We also have been bringing in up grades the last couple of yrs. This years roster looks better at the depth positions and the coaching staff seems keenly aware of the need to get better. We did the best we could this year at QB. Whats not to get excited about? Sure we have to wait until the season starts, but so far so good.
I'm excited....Go Browns

I would like to see what our inability to stop the run better last year did to our QB evaluation of stats. Fewer possessions, reps, scores, and such. We may be better than we think if we find a bit more offense and a better punting game. JMHO and confusion.

If things stay as-is and McCown plays all season, I think I'll end up being just as nauseous this year watching our QB as I was last year.

Cleveland has been the place where QBs go before they retire for years now. I just can't get excited about that.

He has failed nothing yet. That's how I see him as well.

Sure he had a bad 7 quarters. Nothing surprising about that as it happens to rookie QBs. I think the 'rehab' thing has many including that as a negative toward his ability. It has nothing to do with his ability and is being unjustly held against him.

He was ill prepared. No doubt partly due to his addiction. So while not having failed he did miss a lot of what he could have gained in year one. That's behind him now. This year he appears to be more dedicated.

If McCown proves adaquete enough that JF can sit most of this season I believe that when he does play we'll see a very much improved player.

I can only speak for myself ddub. I simply don't believe his skill set will transfer to the NFL. I didn't believe it would the day we drafted him. I saw QB's sitting on the board I felt had a better NFL skill set.

Now I certainly hope I'm wrong. Nothing would make me happier than to be wrong about this. Even the latest bottle gate story with Manziel makes me wonder if his mental make up will ever be at the level of a good NFL QB.

As you can see from reading the board, I don't go around dogging Manziel. I mean he is what he is. What that is remains to be seen. But my hopes have never been high on him. As I said, I certainly hope I'm wrong.

I'm not, but I am happy for you.

[quote=pblack18707]Coach Mike Pettine, GM Ray Farmer speak as if the Browns are all in with Josh McCown as their starting QB this year

CLEVELAND: A month ago, Mike Pettine labeled veteran journeyman Josh McCown the favorite to become the Browns’ starting quarterback heading into the upcoming season, but the coach isn’t stopping there.color
Now Pettine is essentially labeling McCown the best “bridge” starter the Browns could have possibly found this offseason.

The QUESTION BECOMES...

...is Manzeil so much of a PROJECT that there is no freaking way he can make up for the time he lost, goofing around his rookie year and spending his first off season in rehab...OR..

...is McCown that good?

That question will be answered in terms of WINS.

This team should be better than last year and be knocking on the door of the playoffs...just win!

True, but what was worse was how the team laid down when he was in there. I hope he has got his stuff together. If he comes in again this year with anything less than an attitude that says I'm here for my teammates and I'm going to do whatever it takes to become a better QB and an even better teammate the vets will not put out for the guy. A QB needs to lead, needs to command the respect of the offense so that they will get behind him and follow him anywhere. Until JF grows up mentally he stands little chance of becoming a solid NFL QB that can lead teams to wins. You saw our O-line play when JF was in there. Reminded me of the longest yard movie once they lost faith in the QB. Hopefully he has had a transformation and does grow up fast. Once that happens if it happens then we will see if his skill set can translate into the NFL game. That's an entire different conversation that doesn't really matter until problem #1 is fixed.

The team laid down because he wasn't working. By all accounts, he's working now. The two biggest leaders on the team, the two Joes, have both commented on how hard he's working. Guys will play hard for him if he's putting in the time. Can he sustain it? I hope so.

The bigger concern and the biggest elephant in the room is how the team has already appeared to have moved on from him. I believe it was Pettine who was quoted yesterday as saying he thought McCown was the perfect QB to hold the position down until they can find a franchise QB. Umm, I thought that's what they drafted Manziel to be. Now they are saying they don't have a franchise QB. Every word that comes out of Pettine's mouth makes it seem more and more unlikely that Manziel will ever be the QB we all hoped he would be.

This sucks like you wouldn't believe. They see this guy everyday in practice, and they are already counting him out. That is the biggest concern. There has not been one single report, one single player comment from OTAs, that Manziel is even practicing well. That's not why you draft a guy in the first round. You draft a guy in the first round because he is going to be your franchise QB. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. And if you read between the lines, the team has very little hope, after one year, that Manziel is that guy.

It's going to be a long year. One I'm not really looking forward to.

To me we can only look at what has happened thus far. Thus far, he completely failed in his rookie year. By all accounts, he didn't work or put in the time to learn the O. When he was put in, he was totally not ready to play. Players commented on how they had to help him make the calls.

Now that doesn't mean he can't or won't get better. But to this point, on the field and preparing, in the only season he has been in the NFL, he failed.

I would have to consider that a failure. Or if you would prefer to put it in a kinder way, you could say he didn't set his self up to succeed.

He's now in another situation that will make it hard for him to succeed, not impossible but tougher.

Not having a QB competition is a good thing when you have had your legit starter for a few seasons. The Starting QB should always get the reps with the number ones.

In the case for the Browns it looks like they want McCown to be the number one and take all the reps. I guess I'm okay with that because they are giving him the best chance to succeed and help this team win.

The problem I have is hearing how bad Johnny is practicing and how Pettine thinks if you don't practice well you don't play come Sunday...I'm not 100% sold on that philosophy, but then I'm not the HC.

I look at this way.. Johnny failed last season...He didn't step up and play well at all. We are talking one game away from a play-off birth... And Hoyer failed also. Your one game away and you become horrible.. that's failure.

So what happens with Johnny ? Now he doesn't get the reps with the number ones.. So when or if he gets a chance to come in ( assuming he's the number 2 ) he's going to be under so much pressure to be Johnny Football and not Johnny the back up.

Johnny and only Johnny put himself in the situation he is in.. And it will be Johnny and only Johnny who can change that.. I will say that in all fairness that most QB's have to be put in the right situation for them to succeed.. So it will take Johnny..coach and scheme to set himself up to succeed.

Johnny is wearing a Browns uni right now, so at this moment I will give him my support and best wishes.. I know it's a game with a lot of emotions from fans.. I'm still waiting for the miracle, i'm kind of burnt out of throwing QB's out to the curb for underachieving.

Now we have the 2015 season approaching.. It's a clean
slate a new beginning.. I'm not one to keep looking back, I look ahead, and I'm hoping to see some good things from the QB's .

I would love to have Cardale Jones wearing a Browns Jersey..

Don't worry. It will happen after we punch another 4-12 season. That is if "TEXT" still has a job and starts to figure out that you actually need a QB to win in the NFL. Not 500 Defensive Linemen.

I thought your post was really objective and refreshing. However, this statement give me pause...



...only because that is a bit subjective. You could be right, but I think you forgot to factor in that the players didn't think they had a chance to win w/him as the starter.

I know most of you don't want to hear about history, but you must learn from history or you are doomed to repeat it. The Browns never have learned from their history.

Look, I believe that Pet would have kept Hoyer. I also believe Farmer wanted no part of Hoyer. The reason is Johnny. Farmer could not have a qb on the team the players preferred so much more than his first round pick.

The biggest thing that bugs me is that Farmer passed on Teddy for Johnny. Do you think Minnesota is having these types of discussions on their boards. Many of you like to belittle Teddy, but truthfully, if we would have drafted him, would we even be having any QB controversies other than getting him weapons to make him better?

Until Farmer fixes the QB position, this argument is NOT going away.

Teddy or Derek Carr. Either way we would be better off now.

Just think how good we would've been had we gotten Tom Brady in the 6th round a number of years ago. After all, we had at least 5 rounds to pick him.

Let's discuss the Browns missing THAT pick. May as well, since we'd have as much luck changing that pick as we have at changing our picks from 2 years ago.

we should've drafted joe montana

I agree the players didn't think they had a chance to win because...drumroll...he wasn't working. He didn't even know how to call the plays.



Now that's subjective. And it's a huge accusation. One that I don't believe to even be remotely true. What is more likely is that Farmer simply felt that Hoyer wasn't good enough nor would he ever be. I think it's as simple as that.

And let's say we discovered a text from Farmer to someone that said "I don't want Hoyer on this team because I want Johnny to play." Isn't that what he essentially said on draft day anyway? Why wouldn't he want the guy he picked to be the franchise QB to be the franchise QB? I don't think it would be this big gotcha that people are making it out to be.

But I think Farmer would have brought Hoyer back under the right circumstances and the right cost. Neither ever materialized.



Trust me on this. On this board and with this fanbase, many people would be unhappy with Teddy. Many people.



All we can hope for at this point is to continue to build the team and hope we strike gold at some point. I agree that is depressing but it is what it is. And lamenting how we didn't get Teddy over and over again does not change it.

I agree with this. 75% of the time, a man doesn't realize his leader is incompetent.

The 25% of the time a man actually does? It's entirely deflating.

SuperBrown, you always crack me up!

I'm gonna take a nap, then it's off to work.

LOL ! Exactly.