DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Its OSU vs Florida In BCS

I think you are reading WAY too much into this...

16 teams is too many... you're never going to convince the NCAA to potentially add 4 games to somebodys schedule... that would get some teams to 17 games... ain't going to happen.

Not to mention, that puts WVU, Notre Dame, and Va Tech in for a chance.. and I don't think a 2 loss team deserves it... I can see one bad game or one tough game on the road ala Michigan... but if you lose twice, sorry enjoy your other bowl game.

So, here's another question, if you had an 4 team playoff... LSU is #4 in the BCS... do they deserve it over Wisconsin, Louisville, or even Boise State?

Woohoo! <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

Is this another person that wants to give me Florida and 28? I'm still taking bets... <img src="/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif" alt="" />

Geez.. I cheer part of Tabbies post and this is what I get? LOL..

The response was to him... I just clicked on you.... <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

It doesn't matter what you do, the media is going to bich regardless. Remember, the BCS was put in place because there wasn't even ONE game that determined a national champion. For the most part I think it's served it's purpose.

If you boost it up to a four team playoff, then the 5th team will always be "robbed" and there will be a new travesty. If you pump it up to 8, then the first time the #8 seed wins the championship with undefeated Boise State sitting at #9 ... it will be a travesty. If you bump it up to 16 teams, then suddenly 7-4 Notre Dame is getting in every year, and it will be a travesty. <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

(Not to mention more athletes will fail to graduate due to 17 game seasons <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />)

Did it serves its purpose when USC was #1 in the AP and #1 in the coaches poll but didnt make the "championship" game?

Not to argue with you, but I think it did. Everybody, in that case, had one loss, just like the year Auburn got "snubbed" (all involved with no losses). When you limit the field to just 2--as you must do in the current "system" --someone gets the short end of the stick. Unfortunate,...? yes. We need a playoff, but it doesn't need to go beyond 4. See my earlier post in this thread about poll "history" and where the 'Champion' usually always comes from,....We only need to go four deep. Wisconsin wouldn't stand a chance against LSU this year, just my OPINION.

Everything has a cutoff.

Sorry about that, it was in the Forde thread,...

I'll offer to you EXACTLY why you don't have to go more than 4 deep,...because in the past 60 years of college football poll history, only 39 different teams have won or shared a title, and 19 of them were "one-hit-wonders" (Clemson, GTech, Minnesota, Army, etc.) In that regard, the pollsters do a pretty dang good job of selecting who the real players are amongst the remaining 20, what I call, elite programs. That's where your champions come from. Thusly, since pre- and post- BCS implementation days, the National Champion has always come from a very short list of pre-holiday bowl game rankings, i.e. the top four in the AP, the old UPI, the old AFW poll or whatever poll you want to look at, including the BCS. I do not believe anyone has ever come up from 5th or lower to claim a title before the bowl game(s) were played out.

[color:"white"] I expected such stupidity from Spurrier. [/color]

and there's no bias in any opinion poll?

USC was #1 in the AP and #1 in the coaches, the two organizations that hand out National Championships.

Yet they didnt play in the so called "national championship" game. The only reason LSU was appointed National Champions by the coaches is because they are contracted to name the winner of the BCS game the National Champion.


***Also that was a year that Oklahoma did not win there conference, something you and many others say is a reason yuo should not be playing for a NC.

[color:"white"] Mich got screwed [/color]

who got screwed when mich failed to drop in the polls after the loss, like every other team does?

[color:"white"] The only reason LSU was appointed National Champions by the coaches is because they are contracted to name the winner of the BCS game the National Champion.
[/color]

for those that don't know, BCS stands for bowl championship series. meaning the winner of this game IS the national champion. they have a trophy and everything.

Oh joy, arent they fancy.

The AP appoints a National Champion and the Coaches appoint a National Champion, its been like that since I have been alive, since before that and still today.

what kinda trophy do they have?

LOL, im not sure what kind of trophy they have. Is that all you need to be declared a champion these days?

<img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

First off, while still recognizing the AP's "right" to do whatever it wanted to do--which I have the "right" to refute,...it wasn't just the Coaches who voted LSU # 1, it was the BCS and the NCAA--an arrangement THAT ALL PARTIES INVOLVED IN SUBSCRIBED TO before the season started. Is the AP any better, or less at fault, now ?? seeing's how they did the same thing the Coaches did this year in pulling Florida ahead ??


Second,...No doubt, you got me, Oklahoma lost the Big 12 title game that year,....you're absolutely right, but apples are apples,...in that year the AP vote was included in the BCS. I've never said Oklahoma SHOULD HAVE been there. The voters, NOT ME, made that decision. And the only reason anyone complains about Okie is because they lost the game. So therefore, the WRONG team was there ??

Can't wait for the fallout if Florida wins, sheesh,....

Some people like to think they know the score...I suspect this game will garner as much interest as any......fact of the matter is this system has been flawed for a long time....it's only now the people of the Midwest are beginning to get it....the south and west have already experienced the flaws.

The Big 10 are a buch of stodgy old farts unwilling to change much. When this whole BCS thing first went down, my recall is the Big 10 was the one who almost nixed the whole deal saying they HAD to keep the Rose Bowl tie-in and pretty much fought the whole idea.

If they were forward thinkers they would not end their season 2 weeks before everyone else because by doing so, they get left behind....teams who play are the teams people remember....and that doesn't take anything away from the Gators...I think they are better than Michigan.....but my opinion doesn't count..are they better than OSU??....Only time will tell.

What I do know is the majority of the coaches who voted... decided Fla was better....

Welcome to reality. <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />


Now...the simple and only answer is a playoff....maybe just 4 teams...so just because my team is in doesn't mean I like the system....the system sucks...I have said that all along and nothing has chaged just because my team is in and others are on the outside looking in.

Right now the final standings are:

OSU
Fla
Mich
LSU

How good would it be to see 1 v 4 and 2 v 3 then the winners square off??

Now that would be some good stuff....but...I guess that is too complicated for the NCAA to set-up.

Idiots.

"The last rematch in the national title games was in 1996, when Florida beat Florida State for the national title after losing to the Seminoles in the final game of the regular season."

Good read, thanks Stabber
This fact is pretty ironic, don't you think. I think the conference and money issue carried alot more weight than a rematch. Michigan is the second best team. They got screwed, but they did have a chance, so it's not like they got screwed as bad as others over the years.
Tressell will have them ready. Florida has plenty of talent. I'm just glad Leak is still there and Teebow hasn't been the starter. Teebow, is something special. He came in against my Cats, and just destroyed any chance of us getting back into the game.

Oh....for the record....had OSU lost to Mich, I would have been in favor of a rematch(well...i might still have wanted the Gators in my heart, but my mind would have understood) and suspect it would have happened....it is a different deal when the clear cut #1 team falls late.

If OSU were a 1 loss team...as good as they are....they would have gone in a heartbeat...and they should have.

Well, actually, the AP was not contracted to name the winner the national champion, which is why they did not do that. They just let the BCS use their poll as part of the rankings.

And the NCAA doesnt name a champion, never has.

And yes the AP has a right to name a NC and you have a right, the News Herald has a right. But no one recognizes the NH, you or me, but the AP is recognized as a national champion in the history books.

If that doesn't sum up the entire freaking problem, I don't know what does.

Human opinion should NOT be deciding things. A Championship is not an opinion... it is an earned absolute.


The NCAA & College Football is a joke in the pockets of the media. Just a couple of money grubbing whores with no dignity.

[color:"white"]LOL, im not sure what kind of trophy they have. Is that all you need to be declared a champion these days?

[/color]

it helps when you are the one voted to be declaring the champion. like the bcs.

It helps? Ok, I guess, Ill have to look into to see what trophy they have.

I am thinking of getting myself a trophy, I won my last season on Madden and I want to make sure I am recognized as a champion.

Shoot, I need to get a trophy for our fantasy league now also. <img src="/images/graemlins/rofl.gif" alt="" />

This is how it has been forever with polls etc...the BSC is just a different form of the same old thing.

I think to a degree, the NCAA likes it....keeps things in the front of peoples minds.

Sure...I like National titles as much as anyone, but when it comes to the Gators....Winning the SEC is the best and really what i care about the most.

That is one thing that bothers me about the Big 10...they have a conference winner and the teams don't even play all the other members...not that the SEC does either, but it is set-up so teams do have a chance in the title game.

I wonder if Wisconsin wishes they had a shot at the Bucks this year??

The Big 10 needs to add a member to get to 12 teams, split divisions and go to a title format....but they don't and continue to be stuck in the 1950's mud. I think they like the fact OSU or Mich is going to be the champs 80% of the time....but that probably wouldn't happen if they split OSU/Mich into opposite divisions and kept their annual game as a tradition game.

The SEC as an example has split divisions but each team in one division keeps one traditional game with a team in the other division and rotates the rest in that division. The gators tradition rival in the west is LSU. We play them every year but rotate the others....this year and last, we didn't play Arkansas....but...as it worked out..they go their shot.

Last time I checked Peen we had 3 of the top 5 five teams with one of ours being omitted from the BCS because of a lack of forward thinking on the part of the new school thinkers of the BCS. Reality is to we have a playoff there is always going to be something that is askew.


I think it would great to see the original bowl affilitions worked into the playoff somehow or at minimum a regional approach taking conference champions and a minimal number of at large bids. I agree that a play off would be sweet but a 4 team playoff wouldnt cut it this year due to the number of one & two loss teams who are conference champions and several worthy at large teams. People are missing the fact that some of the best elements of the BCS (considering strength of schedule etc.) will be lost if we move to a format where conference champions and a few at large bids (mid majors & independents) are put into a playoff.

They are not going to make it MORE Complaicated if they move to a playoff it will probably be simpler. And once they change it the whining is going to fall on def ears.

We should start another thread on devising a playoff format and whittle it down to what we think is plausible. I bet within a week or so we would all be pulling our hair out and realize how difficult it would be.

A question to you peen is how do you leave Boise State, Wisco, Oklahoma & USC in your proposed 4 team playoff over 2 loss LSU??

And the NCAA doesnt name a champion, never has.


Holy cow, you're right again,... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> but this IS NCAA football isn't it ?? It is the organization that "sanctions" the whole mess,...

Neither of us, nor anybody on this board will ever be "right," so I'll just buy you a beer sometime and call it even.

I'm sure they would.. much like I'd like to punch Ray Lewis in the mouth.... it's one of those things that great to dream about because you know it will never happen...

I am not going to try to reinvent the wheel here on a message board. I just took the standings as they have them...I don't give a rats ass how they do it...and 4 is just a number....I don't really care how they do it...they just need to avoid the chaos that happens nearly every year.

Nothing is going to be perfect since football isn't like BB...but you can usually pretty well identify the top 4 teams.

That might create talk too....but the emotion isn't going to be nearly as great when you start complaining about who should be #4 v #5.......maybe it is 16.....that is 4 games......but 4 is real simple.....2 games....2 teams play 1 extra game....how they get to the 4...I don't really care....use the existing system.

LOL, well we can agree the whole thing is a mess.

Before the BCS you had two recognized bodies naming a national champion, which in turn involved split-champions sometimes.

So I applaud the BCS for trying to correct that. However, the system has become just as messed as before which is why one of the two bodies that names a champion doesnt associate with them anymore.

Unfortunately people are under the impression that the NCAA names the champion and the BCS is the end all be all. They arent. They tried to correct a system by combining the two parties.

Some people think that because the BCS hands out a trophy that makes them the overall champion. (Hell, the AP might hand out a trophy for all I know, not sure why that matters though)

Like it or not, its wrong, I know most people want the BCS to appoint one champion, but it doesnt always do that and never will as I dont think the AP will associate with the BCS ever again.

Now...the simple and only answer is a playoff....maybe just 4 teams

See my post, above,... <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The funny thing about the chaos that happens every year... is that every year about 6 or 7 weeks into the season the media starts predicting this log jam of 0 and 1 loss teams and a 7 or 8 way mess... every year most of those teams bow out by losing.... It pretty much always comes down to one clear cut team that deserves in and a choice between 2 others for the second spot.... happens like that every year... (ok, ALMOST every year for those who will find some exception... <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />)

I agree with you Peen I just think that everybody had "ideas: on what it would take to get to a playoff but i dont think there are very many well thought out scenarios. I just wanted to try to hint at the complexity that might be involved. You say that the emotions wont play in to it so much but coming on the heels of this year, I think the scurtiny of the system would be even higher in the first year of a playoff.

As we have witnessed you never know how the season is going to unfold and you would potentially have issues. that was my point. And i think you would give a rats as on how they do it if the Gators or SEC as a whole was shafted <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

actually,I'd send out a notice to all schools notifying them that they must declare before a certain date whether or not their school would like to compete for the national championship.

Then destroy/disregard all existing conferences and take all schools that say 'Yes' to the above and build new conferences that are balanced in number and geographic distribution. Finally, proceed like a normal league and play a round-robin style within your new conference to determine playoff seeding, then single elimination playoffs until there is only one team left standing.

Actually I remember Peen not being all that upset when Auburn got shafted....

I am only human.....but I have seen it before so I really don't expect anything else.....not just my team or league...I just understand someone is almost always going to get the shaft....be it Fla, Mich, USC,Auburn....whoever.

You don't remember that......quit trying to stir things up <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I did feel they got the shaft.......big time.

[color:"red"] Plus I love how he mentions that Tressel didn't vote in the last coaches poll.. Which is a good thing because if you cannot be partial, don't vote I mean if he did vote [/color]

I'm of the opinion a coach SHOULD NEVER be able to vote for his next opponent..period.

Your right, here's a way to look at it with no opinion. You have three viable teams: OSU (won their conference), UF (won their conference), and UM (did NOT win their confernece).

Which is the odd man out here? I think it's pretty obvious.