DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Question for the Religious....

Ok......lets try to keep this civilized.

This is for everyone, but my question is definitely aimed at YTown.

aight bro, so i've been on my nerd quest, and i came across this:



I remember you saying before that this idea that the earth is only 6k years old is some new age christian stuff, and that most christians understand that the earth is millions of years old.

Ken Ham said that any christians who believe the Earth is millions of years old have some sort of mental disease. That it's only 6k.

In case nobody had time to watch the video, Bill Nye isn't debating if God is real or not. The debate is about whether or not the Earth is only 6,000 years old.

My question to you is this: Doesn't this kind of thinking hurt the credibility of christians?

christians...well hell all religions, have had some HUGE scientist that have made massive contributions to our world, innovation, tech and medicine.

So why is it that nobody from the christian faith is speaking out against this new wave of "creationism"?

I'll weigh in quick as I'm trying to avoid work at the moment.

I don't think it hurt Christians as a whole....rather it hurts a small portion of them who are wacky enough to believe that the earth is 6000 years old despite a wealth of evidence to the contrary.

I think any religion has those nuts within it...and generally i'd say they are frowned on by the rest of them.

I believe what you'll find is that there are many religions that are a form of Christianity. Not all believe the same. So you will have different beliefs on a mass number of issues. While it could cause the belief of some Christians to look wrong, it would simply bolster the beliefs of other Christians.

There's no one human voice the speaks for Christians as a whole.

"Ken Ham said that any christians who believe the Earth is millions of years old have some sort of mental disease."

Anyone who believes the Earth is millions of years old has a problem. Unless they think it's 4,500 million years old. (4.5 billion)

That's alot of millions of years. It's beyond human comprehension.

Let me show you...

1 million years is huge.

Recorded history only goes back ~ 10,000 years (remember that's 8,000 B.C.) 2 million is twice as much... How about 100 million years? How about a thousand million years.

Oh no...nuts...not again... I lost my comprehension.

I don't believe the earth is 6000 years old.

Try it this way. If you had $1 billion, and spent $1 every second of every day, it would take just over 32 years to spend it all.

Are you sure?

Let's see:

32 years * 365 days * 24 hours * 60 minutes * 60 seconds =

2 into 5 carry the one...

I get 2.

What you mean, If?

You forgot leap years.

I don't think the earth is only 6000 years old either but I know some who do. They are not nuts or kooks or wacky as canadaDawg insists. It is just what they believe.

Try looking at it this way you faithful people of God, Is it impossible for God to have created everything just 6000 years ago and made it look to us puny humans like it is Billions of years old?

Or can't He do that?

Well if he did, why did he stop?

nobody has actually answered that question.

Look, you know i'm not religious, but i'm agnostic. I believe in a higher power, and i actually believe in intelligent design.

That we evolved until we got to a point where we was smart enough to understand what a God is. i dunno, that's just my thing. but we also continue to evolve.

The thing is there's so much scientific fact, even from christian or other religious scientist, that the world isn't 6k years old.

when we talk about origins-creation vs big bang- that's only something nobody will have the answers to until we die. it's all speculation.

you can't tell a christian that the big bang theory is real. on the flip side, you can't tell somebody who isn't religious that God just created it out of thin air.

But we're talking about the age of the Earth, here. we got dinosaurs, carbon dating, nuclear dating, ETC, that both religious and non-religious scientist both agree on.

fun fact, over 60% of scientist around the world are religious. and most of them don't believe in this 6k stuff.

especially since we have human civilizations that date past the 6k mark.

so how does that work?

I like to participate in some good natured ribbing here and there with friends of different faiths or beliefs, but at the end of the day I tend to find that those who want to get into a debate are just looking to reinforce the inevitable uncertainty of their beliefs. You be you, I will be me, and in matters of disagreement, just let it go. Atheists and believers will always be playing a game of intellectual tag in the spirit of lawyers, because at the end of the day, there is no definitive answer.

I was reminded of one the other night while watching "A.D.':



If this is true, why would ANY REPUBLICAN side with the rich, want to be rich or make laws to help the very rich take more from the poor?

Swish I think your taking what one guy said and making it sound like every Christian believes it.... I'm and there's no way I think that the world is only 6k years old... I also think something like the Big Bang actually happened... I just personally think that God was the one who set it in motion....

As others have said there are many different nuances within Christianity... History has also had several strong Christians who were also scientists... I personally don't think the two are exclusive.

Just my two cents

Why would any REPUBLCIAN?

Nah man read my post. I clearly said the majority of Christians don't believe that. Come on now Jay.

I ask if guys who preach this kind of belief hurts the religious community overall.

Sorry swish I got caught up a bit where you said you can't tell a Christian the Big Bang is real... Still think some of your posts seem to generalize a bit

No more than Justin Bieber hurts the pop music community overall.

but he does.

The christian churches I was raised in did believe the earth was 6000 years old and that the sun revolved around the earth. Also the earth had a vapor canopy like Venus, giving us the flood. And man walked with dinosaurs. And that Adam really did live to be over 900 years old.

These were churches with thousands of people in them. Indicative of the whole? Who knows. But there are definitely evangelicals who believe in the Bible as to be taken literally.

Science has proved, then disproved so many things that it's hard to know what is true .... but rather, only what is true at this time.

The Bible, especially the Old Testament, is written as poetry in a lot of cases. There are a lot of poetic devices used in the various Books of the Bible.

I have no idea how old the earth really is. I tend to lean towards the earth being older rather than younger, but how old I don't know.

I suspect that Genesis was written in a fashion that people could understand. Some theologians consider us to still be in the 7th day. Some say that the Bible has used similar devices, for example, a verse that says that a thousand years is like a day to the Lord.

I don't have a good answer for what the exact age is ..... or even the general age. What I have been taught in school tells me that it is billions of years old. I watched a debate recently between Christian anthropologists and geologists, and the older earth guys were more convincing to me.

In the end, it isn't that big an issue to me. I believe that God created everything. He did not go into exact methodology in the Bible. He spoke almost everything into existence, the lone exception being man, who he formed with His hands, and into who He breathed life.

But not much.

I would say anyone who believes God created everything in 6 actual days and rested for just one, for a total of 7, or thinks the planet is only 7000 years old doesn't understand the Hebrew language when it comes to the use of numbers. Hebrew numbers are often used symbolically rather than literally. For instance the phrase 40 days and 40 nights does not actually mean that. It simply means a long time. The word day can often mean the same thing as an Age. For example, the Age of the Dinosaurs.

Anyone who has been to actually seminary where they make you learn Hebrew does not take the numbers used in the Bible to always mean the actual numbers they are translated to.

BTW if you don't think humans have lived beside dinosaurs at some time in the past then your ignorant about a LOT of physical evidence that says otherwise including the written records or histories of ancient civilizations.

We have fossil records where human footprints are right next to dinosours.



Please, notice that the dinosaur footprint has stepped into the human footprint, which means, the dino stepped ON a preexisting human footprint. It also makes humans a LOT older than that mainstream evolutionist claim too.

Please look at the following art work from thousands of years ago:



This was carved into Ankor Wat in cambodia some 5-8 thousand years ago long before we knew about dinosaurs.



From Mesopotamian buildings you have several carvings that show dinosaurs interacting with humans. Medical doctors might recogize the symbol of the intertwining necks ...



This cave drawing from North American indians sure looks like they knew what a brontosaurus looks like to me ...



You also have the Ica stones from central and south america that clearly show many different breeds of dinosaurs. Some even show men riding them. Over 20,000 of them.

Do you really think there is a difference between dragons and dinosaurs? They are the same darn thing. The TRUTH is that we have written and physical evidence that proves men and dinosaurs until recent times interacted together. When you look at the physical evidence that is out there then you can't possibly believe that humans and dinosaurs did not co-exist.

Believe what you want about dinosaurs but I will follow the evidence.

The earth is one year older than me.

Well that confirms it! The Earth is really really old!

The trouble with these so called debates is when you put 1 scientist up to argue with 1 wacko it presents the wacko as having equal credibility for the discussion.

Have a discussion with an accurate scientists/wackos ratio and then you have a debate.

An incredibly short and decisive debate.

BTW I have no problem using the term wacko for someone who suggests most of the world's population has a mental illness.

I've always found this one interesting.

Boot print



This is a boot print found in coal laced granite, that is estimated to be 15 million years old or older. This find has been bunked and debunked many times, and there are many websites about it. To me, it's another one of those interesting "I don't knows" that makes the world more interesting and reminds us we don't know everything.

Yes. I think the guy is in demand as a speaker because he makes a very compelling creation argument, his 6K argument is probably a lot less well received. Any time somebody speaks with a voice of authority, and this guy does... not THE authority, but some authority.. and what he says flies in the face of science and general understanding, he will be viewed as a bit of a kook... unless at some point he is proven right, which this guy will not. Therefore anybody who is in that guys camp, in this case all Christians, will also be viewed the same way.

It's not really any different than what Ray Rice and Adrian Peterson did reflecting badly on the NFL, or some of the stupid things politicians have said reflecting badly on the whole party, or some cop shooting an unarmed guy in the back... Guilt by association (otherwise known as stereotyping) is very real, everybody does it, even those who adamantly say they don't... they all do it.. some do it more than others. Another fact of life is that stereotyping some groups is far more socially acceptable to the masses than stereotyping others in our society.

I think this guy has honest intentions, I just think he is scientifically wrong... does it bug me that I seem to constantly have to defend myself as a Christian... to keep stating that I am just as disgusted as you by the occasional pedophile clergy, the Westboro Baptist Church, the snake handlers, those who deny their kids medication, etc? Yes, I am absolutely sick of having to do that... Just as I'm sure there are "guilt by associations" that you would rather not have to constantly defend yourself against.

Razor, these are documented hoaxes and/or embellishments. Make sure you do research before posting extraordinary claims.

The burden isn't on me to find these links. A simple google search will give scientific backing against Hamm's ridiculous claims.

You should probably note that for each website you find debunking something, you will find another proving that same thing to be authentic.

It's time for the Ancient Aliens guy picture to be posted…

Why? Does it make it easier to debunk claims when you have his picture up?

There are plenty of things that have not been explained in just human history. The best example I can think of are South American natives that were able to cut and move 100 ton andecite stones, then set them in place so tightly they didn't need any mortar. I also like how the Egyptians were able to polish stone flat to 1/1000th of an inch, or how many of their repeated hyroglyphs on the same stone will be exact in measurements. These are evidence of a technology we have lost. I don't know what was involved with making a lot of these monuments, but I am sure they were using some sort of power tools, as a person cannot hand carve two exact copies.

Your debunking has been debunked.

Facts and evidence will not enlighten someone who's mind Just Can't Handle the Truth. Or won't.


The ruins of Sodom and Gomorrah have been discovered southeast of the Dead Sea. The modern names are Bab edh-Dhra, thought to be Sodom, and Numeira, thought to be Gomorrah. Both places were destroyed at the same time by an enormous conflagration. The destruction debris was about three feet thick. What brought about this awful calamity? Startling discoveries in the cemetery at Bab edh-Dhra revealed the cause. Archaeologists found that buildings used to bury the dead were burned by a fire that started on the roof.
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a007.html

Quoted strictly for the purpose of irony.

The Pyramids have never made any sense examined through the lens of what we know about nature's laws. If you discount the idea of time travel, you're left with "alien" technology being responsible. Of course, that word has several different meanings.

Can't handle it?

Sorry, there are no aliens. Nothing out there but us.

We see that all the time from the religious and non-religious. The main question I have with the neolithic monuments is, why?

For example, the Great Pyramid of Giza. This is a structure that covers 13 acres, is 481 feet tall, is built from roughly 2 million blocks, and weighs almost 6 million tons. To top things off, the estimated build time is 10 to 20 years, and it is aligned in such a way that its sides match the cardinal compass points (not magnetic compass), and if you are looking at it from above at sunrise on the Equinoxes, you will see it has 8 sides, not 4.

Once again, the question is 'why?'. If it is a tomb to protect a pharoh, why would you build a structure that can be seen from miles away? If it is a tomb for a pharoh, why doesn't it have his name and exploits all over the inside? Why did his people move 6 million tons of stone for him? There is obviously a lot more going on here than it seems.

As I said, "alien" doesn't necessarily mean little green men. If there were a God or Allah who built the pyramids, it would be "alien" technology. Golf courses are maintained and oranges are picked by aliens. And how exactly would you know there's nothing but us, given that we know less than 10% of the universe?