DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Browns Over/Under

The comment was that this was almost the same team as last year. It is not. I showed why it is not.

jc...


I just prefer to be cautiously optimistic.

I can see the team fall on their face, and I can see the team gel and succeed. I do not see this team as just dominating, or being completely dominated.

Can McCown fill the roll? I hope he does well enough to give us a chance come December.

Last year was the first in many that I wasn't just sure in the 4th quarter we were going to blow a lead, I had some confidence we could pull out a win when we were up late in the 4th.

I think we are a 6-7 win team, barring a meltdown or critical injury.

Tab you're not the only one.

I've voiced my opinion regarding McCown as well and it's the same as yours.

With an effective offensive line and running game, and an opportunistic defense getting stops and turnovers, I think McCown has a chance at succeeding and could be a lateral move from Brian Hoyer.

Succeeding to some people on this board might have a different meaning depending on who you ask.

What I would call a successful season would be 9-7 with a wild-card berth.

With an absolutely dominant defense, and dominant run game, and a smart, game manager at QB, maybe we could do better?

Hope is riding on potential though, obviously everything has to click on all fronts for anything successful to happen this year.

I agree on this post 100%. The run game is obviously going to be what makes us successful ,or what makes us fail on offense. With the qbs we have, I'm not sure how you could debate or see otherwise.

Oh and keeping the defense rested is a solid point you made. Especially last year when we started to get extremely thin at dline. As of now,everyone healthy, we should have a great rotation at dline. I even read where Jim said he'll be running more 4-3 due to all our dline personnel.

I'm hoping that Mack comes back 100% and I hope he agrees to stay with the Browns for the long haul.. Barring that, We better get to finding out if Erving is a decent replacement.

I'm betting we'll see Erving play snaps as a first team RG/RT in preseason, and then will be the second & third team center. Just to get him reps in all areas and feel out what he does best. I agree with you about Alex Mack, but as the man isn't getting any younger I can't see him staying if we have another stinker of a year. The veterans on this team are sick of change and turnover, and another 5-11 season will probably equate to change and he'll no doubt opt out.

i just need an entire season of competitive games..

I understand every team occasionally gets blown out.. (@ Seattle isn't looking too good)

If we can win I'd say at least 6 (I'd like to say 7, but also hate defining a season by a win total) while having competitive games.. Then that will show players here, and elsewhere that we are getting there..

I don't mean like 2010 we lost by 7 because we trailed by 10+ the whole game and the other team got bored..

I see no reason, that with the roster constructed as is, that we can't be competitive, and win at least half of our games for the first half of the schedule..

We got a HUGE break on the first 3 weeks.. And I'm sure those 3 teams are probably saying the same thing.. But if we can start with some wins.. And build some confidence.. Who knows..

Editors Note: This post is obviously invalid because we are a completely talentless team who will be lucky to win a single game, and I'm just a big homer..

repying to ThatGuy
you are just another sheep following the masses trying to hold down the little man but there is somethign we should all ask ourselves. What would Teddy do? lol

Sorry BTTB. Don't see it your way. Drafting OL and RB early in the draft and signing FA receivers more known to fit in a play-action offense doesn't seem all that different than last year.

2014 Offensive coaching staff:

Offensive Coordinator – Kyle Shanahan
Quarterback – Dowell Loggains
Running Backs – Wilbert Montgomery
Wide Receivers – Mike McDaniel
Tight Ends – Brian Angelichio
Offensive Line – Andy Moeller
Assisstant Offensive Line – George DeLeone
Offensive Quality Control – Richard Hightower
Senior Offensive Assistant – Jimmy Raye II
Offensive Assistant/Special Assistant to the Head Coach – Steve Gera


2015 staff:

Offensive Coordinator – John DeFilippo *CHANGE*
Quarterbacks – Kevin O'Connell *CHANGE*
Running Backs – Wilbert Montgomery
Wide Receivers – Joker Phillips *CHANGE*
Assistant Wide Receivers – Frank Edgerly *NEW POSITION*
Tight Ends – Brian Angelichio
Offensive Line – Andy Moeller
Assistant Offensive Line – George DeLeone
Senior Offensive Assistant – Kurt Roper *CHANGE*
Offensive Quality Control – Michael McCarthy *CHANGE*

Maintaining nearly half of last years coaching staff doesn't seem major. Than again, what do I know I'm buying used cars.

It's June and you guys are being optimistic about your team!?

Pffftt.....

Suckers.

Yeah I know. Its the same dance you have done with every regime and team, that record speaks for itself. I'm not suppose to let that sway me though.

It's all good with you all the time, you are beyond all doubt the best maker of lemon aid EVER.

You say I surround my take with logic and football, funny how every opinion ever taken on a player, FO, HC, coaching staff is ALWAYS the same.

I'm not trying to make this personal I'm really not just giving my take on how your opinion is formed and it always comes from the same place, year in year out its always the same.

Its not all bad with Text and Pet but listening to you its perfect. Oh once and a while you'll criticize some nothing thing to TRY to make it seem as though your balanced but your NOT.

Last year I criticized their handling of the QB spot, have you noticed that this year they are falling over themselves to show the utmost support for McCown. Ever ask why? Ever criticizes them for the way they handled it? No and you still won't because it fly's in the face of your blind support.I Thank God they corrected their poor handling of the QB spot last year and you see nothing wrong with how they handled it so its a non issue for you beside criticize the FO or coaching staff NEVER.

The difference between me and you is this you see nothing but positive I see both positive and negative.



If its what I said what you said then lets include the entire convo k?

Here goes:

YOU Said:

We have now the progression of all in a 2nd year defense. We have now progression of rookies who contributed last season. Making certain units stronger.

I responded by saying this, I realize its not the cherry picker variety but lets keep some context here.

I thought we were talking about additions and subtractions? Did I miss something???? saywhat It's queer how topics get side tracked. With the players we had it would have been their 2nd year as well so how does that make the additions or subtractions better. Following that theory it stands to reason the guys that were here would also be better and they actually had a year under their belts their replacements don't. Down grade here plain and simple, if I follow your formula.



Its to big a deal to be swept under the McCown equals Hoyer rug besides we don't need no stinking QB anyway used car sales pitch we are getting. And you buy it seemingly hook line and stinker.

Now tell me how a career losing QB played 5 games (3-2) where he looked like a QB super cedes his career of losing and looking horrid in doing so. Yeah that right he will succeed because he has never had a O Line like ours. Weedon was a career loser behind the nearly same line, as was Champbell, as was BQ, as was DA. I know what the results are going to be because I have seen this ALL play out so many times its like deja vu hot garbage all over again.

But I'm over the emotional I'm pissed cause they are stupid enough to let go of the only QB that had a winning record for us in the past 7 years. I realize that Flip was instrumental in bringing McCown here and I say let him have his guy cause sure crap he will be the guy getting fired come the close of the season. Ever hear he is in over his head well prepare yourself for round like 100 of hearing that phrase.

But at the end of the day. I am NOT buying the used car sales pitch about how we are better and we will minimize the QB spot. When I gaze into my crystal ball I see a train wreck.

I must say tho the used car salesmen pitch makes me laugh. I know you don't buy it either but you just can't bring yourself to call it a spade.....

skrine is 26. yea young and still learning. just comming into his prime.

I disagree w/you and here is why.

We are still weak in the very same areas as were last year.

You are so cool.

I read all these posts and keep hoping for fresh and honest takes, but I just keep seeing the same dumb stuff over and over and over again.

It is entertaining to read all the creative ways you guys find to convince yourselves that you are right and guys like me are stupid.

Oh wait...........those same things have been going on since 2001.

Old, tired, dumb, lack of character.........

Beginning of the year or end of the year? A healthy Alex Mack and a functioning running game made a lot of the "weaknesses" look better when we were winning.

That is your opinion, but it is not the same team, no matter how you slice it. The results remain to be seen ... and frankly, I think that we will be a hugely improved team, but we can't judge results at this point.

We agree....

The fans have always bought the junk car and they are doing it again. They have talked themselves and anyone gullible enough to believe it into thinking McCown is equal too Hoyer, then in the next breath they follow that up with the Browns will minimize the QB spot and they buy it they believe it and that IMO makes them suckers for the used car.


Remember PF?

Remember Shurmur?

Remember BQ?

Remember TRich?

Remember Johnny?

The one constant is that at least once a year the members of this very board buy another used car, and just like always it turns out to be a POS. This year its McCown, and the we will minimize the QB position. We don't want to overvalue the position thinking. We don't need a QB that is a proven winner who had a horrid 4 game stretch we need a QB that has a horrid career, it will be OK trust us.

Remember the we are all on the same page winning will follow? How did that work out?

The we don't want to overvalue the QB position line of BS is on par with the we are all on the same page thingy. Then they will shift it to well I don't think much of McCown but we will run the ball. Well we saw how that worked last year didn't we? They ignore comments by Mack when he was asked about the run game drop off he said, whether I was playing or not he thought the run game would eventually suffer because you can't keep doing the same things because defenses are to good and they will take it away.

They don't look at comments like that and say hey were we helping ourselves by not changing things up? Did we have a counter move when the run wasn't productive? And what is the counter move this year. What we saw to close the season is what we will see this year at least to start, if we run run run teams will stop it, then what? Minimize away. Whens the draft next year?

And the used car is bought once again. And this year you bought it along with the rest of them. No big deal cause the damage is done.

The one shining light is will lose enough to be at or near the top of the draft then we can stop undervaluing the most critical position on any NFL team and actually address it.

Our team is different because I think a lot of them now KNOW they can win games and play competitive football. Winning seven games last year, and losing four of them by 4-points had to have been a big stepping block. Excluding the tightend spot I would say our overall roster looks better going into 2015 than it did in 2014.

26 is not that young in terms of an NFL lifespan. And coming into his prime (as you state) does not equate to 'young and still learning' as far as I am concerned.

K'Wuan is 23 (young) and in his second year (still learning). Again, "young and learning" is more of a case for Williams than Skrine, who is in his second contract and "in his prime" as you say.

Can Skrine get better? Sure. And for his sake I hope he does, but you talk about Skrine like he has little experience and is still in developmental stages-- I disagree. He has tons of experience playing inside and outside in his four years in Cleveland and I think he is past that learning stage and now an experience veteran. I don't think the Jets would have paid $13M guaranteed for someone "still learning", do you?

If you disagree, so be it.

My only beef with Skrine was that he was a penalty magnet.

As I'm sure was the biggest headache for most people with him.

It definitely hurt losing him, but with Gilbert, Tramon and K'Waun (plus the Oregon kid when he gets healthy) I would say our secondary is just as strong now than when he was here.

Skrine should continue to get better as Daylon Mccutcheon will not let him slack off on working hard to keep improving.

Skrine is going back to the nickle though.

I wonder what he thought about the Jets signing Cromartie and Revis after he signed.

That is probably going to be one dirty secondary though...

Yeah, it even made Hoyer look like a starting qb for awhile there. The run game is a deal maker or breaker for us.

We just totally disagree... I would gladly pay but you best start saving up now.....

You will have to excuse me Mac I have hard time buying into the theory that McCown can even hold Hoyers jock. But I will get over it when McCown shows me something other then what he has over the course of the past 12 years.

Hard to be happy with changing out a winner for a loser. But hey thats just me... I can wait!!!!!

McCown can be a really good QB at times even elite level QB, think Jason Campbell 2 years ago when he looked like an allstar but the same thing is true for both QBs. Fantastic QBs until they get hit a couple times and then its over for them. They turtle up start looking to where the pressure is coming from and waiting for the next sack.

BTTB:

Downplaying the value of Hoyer isn't necessarily an endorsement for McCown.

I sincerely doubt ANYONE was happy with swapping Hoyer for McCown.

I argued left and right with you about the flaws I saw in Hoyers game, but I would have rather kept him over signing McCown.

It's over now though.

It's either we can pray like hell that McCown works out, or we can just go ahead and roll over and start discussing the 2016 draft.

Hoyer sucked, McCown sucks. one chokes from mental pressure other from physical and that is why both are career backups.

Here is the part you and most of this board don't get.

I wanted Hoyer here #1 because I know we can win with him. That is proven

McCown is a career loser.

I was all in with replacing Hoyer the one requirement is he has to be better, and McCown has never been in 12 years save all the run, run, run, OLine crap for the low hanging fruit. This team has been or had a great O Line going back to the time JT was drafted and they continue to be, and we all should know by now, a bad QB behind good O Line are Bad QB's behind good O Lines. The guy has to be able to hold his own and McCown over his career has shown he isn't up to it.

I don't want to hear a tear fall when McCown delivers the goods.

The one point I take issue with is that you state they "will minimize the QB position this year". Yes, that part is true there is no doubt.

However, the fact is they did the exact same thing last year depending on the running game and the defense.

They just didn't vocalize it so you could quote them on it.

You left Johnny out he sucks to only worse.......

Yea but Johnny has 1 year under his belt and the other 2 have a 2 1/2 decades between them.

Of all the QB statements you made, THIS, I can finally agree with you.

Yep, JFF sucked last year too. I'm hoping we see enough improvement this year, so when McCown's quality of play catches up, Browns have options. As with Hoyer, teams find ways to beat you especially when talent around you begin to fall.

Right now both sides of this debate have a strong argument. As we seen, several hundred threads beating this argument to death with neither side budging!!