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I agree and it brought us down instead of allowing Hoyer to go to work on 1st down we put him in bad down and distance situations that cause all QB's problems.

I loved Hoyer in Norv's offense which is built on rhythm Hoyer just ate that up. 3, 5. 7 step drop and out with the ball he killed it, as did Teddy last year. With the Shanny O it was roll outs and play action all the time when passing. Everything was built around buying the QB time to allow the receivers to work open the problem I saw with that was it did 2 things it took the rhythm out of the plays and it didn't allow Hoyer to do the things he does best. Read the D pre and post, and deliver the ball at the back of his drop (rhythm).

With the roll out Hoyer had to turn his back to the LOS then spin around re orient himself set his feet and deliver the ball. You have a QB that reads D's real well and you take his eyes from the field? Ah don't get me started but the offense was bad for Hoyer it didn't suit his game AT ALL. But he made it work. It will be interesting to see if Flip stays within the frame work of McCowns skill set (whatever the hell that is), cause Shanny never did with Hoyer.

What the hell is going on...now two things I agree!!

Well said BTTB. Curious whether Shanny designed the offense thinking Johnny will take over, or he/Pettine determine this is the offense scheme. Something tells me it was Shanny. Pettine is making it a priority understanding the offense this year.

I like Shanny, but I'm starting to think Shanny is pretty set in his ways. It is why I think there was a lot of friction between Farmer, Pettine, and Shanny. Of course, this is purely a speculation on my part.

Hoyer was at his BEST in the play action. It fit him perfectly.



https://twitter.com/PFF

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_/id/144677/brian-hoyer-makes-plays-off-play-action



http://profootballspot.com/_/nfl/afc-nor...deep-ball-r5090

Josh McCown may not have had much success in the past but he wasn't on good teams either. This may be the most talent he has had around him. He has been around awhile and just maybe with this new system we have things may click for him and everything may come together. He knows the game and has some brains. One could hope.

I'm not advocating Josh is elite, but I feel a lot of people fail to see the point mentioned above. He's going to be given a top three o line, a serviceable set of targets to throw to, young and fresh running backs, and a coordinator that has history with him.

I'm going let him play the year out before I call him the McCown of last year.

Agreed Dawg. I also believe to help Josh Flip should put in a lot of pass plays for our rb's. They are talented and if they can become a real threat out of the backfield that would really open up things for our O. I remember reading somewhere that even Glenn Winston is a good pass receiver. You have a lot more options if your backs can catch the ball well.

j/c:

Man, y'all our like politicians when it comes to being masters of the spin and misleading people w/arguments that are full of hot air, but have no substance.

It's really hard to read.

Hard to argue against that football/logic............Drinking aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaagain...............

No they don't have a strong argument.

McCown is a career loser, no other way to say it.

Hoyer is a career winner, no other way to say it.

Johnny gets an incomplete leaning heavily towards monumental bust.

If Johnny could muster a record of 10-6 these guys would be down in front of 1st Energy erecting his statue.

Strong argument my ass, more like wishful thinking supported by ignorance and the belief that the used car salesmen came thru for them this time...

Hoyer is a career winner? He's going into his 7th season, and has a record of 9-6. Technically yes that's a winning record, but the term career winner has to be used loosely there.

Before you try and argue that he's 10-6, I must point out that the Buffalo game should be credited to Weeden, because when Hoyer was injured we were losing 10-0.

I'm not arguing what you're saying about McCown.

It's just I don't know how you can call Hoyer a career winner when he's primarily been a backup.

He raised the bar for QB play in Cleveland, and then tripped over it himself.

I'll post again. If Hoyer is as good as you say, why did Buffalo and Jets decided to keep Manual and Smith? Needing a starter why did AZ waive Hoyer? Both New England and Pittsburgh didn't think Hoyer was good enough to be backup. Why did they not trade? Houston finally signed him late in FA. Thus, 31 teams did not think Hoyer was good enough or not worth the price to be their backup. I'd say that is a pretty strong argument against Hoyer. You could be right. It happen before where 31 teams missed.

Argument for McCown he plays better with a big OL and running backs. Two teams attempted to sign McCown with one out bidding the other. Maybe both those teams are complete morons, but it is a good argument for McCown. None the less TWO teams bid for McCown's services.

Without using my opinion, I gave two points for and against. Your keep chirping about a used car salesman. I get your loyalty and winning record. Your belief and the NFL differs. Yet, the Browns messed up, wait, my bad, the used car salesman is trying to sell me a lemon!

Just the facts gentlemen just the facts.

Hoyer was in NE behind a future HOF QB he lacked an opportunity, and has proven when given an opportunity he can win. All the he said she said stuff is window dressing hell the Browns wanted to resign Hoyer too but Hoyer said hold up let me talk to Pet and Flip 1st.

I liken your post to he jumped off the roof so I will too. Meaningless drivel. The FACTS speak for themselves. I understand you wish to ignore them and buy the car. Why aren't I surprised..... Ho hum

Sorry BTTB. Those points I made are all facts. You can house dress it however you want turning a blind eye.

I wanted Hoyer. I think it is possible to win with him. When more than one team says different, sometimes you have to step back. Why do paid professionals see it differently? Oh well, it is time for me to purchase my lemon!

Is Hoyer the Texans' answer at QB? Not no but heck no

By Jerome Solomon Sports Columnist, Houston Chronicle


Reports that the Texans have their sights on the former Cleveland Browns player with hopes of him competing with Ryan Mallett, a free agent the Texans hope to re-sign, aren't so much surprising as discouraging.

Not every team in the league is going to have an above-average quarterback, but aren't you tired of the Texans being on the downside of that graph?

If you have not seen Hoyer play, don't let familiarity with his name fool you. He became the most talked-about bad quarterback in the NFL last year simply by being a quality guy on the same team with Johnny Manziel.

Past speaks for itself

There are 10 quarterbacks who have taken snaps for the Texans in the franchise's far-from-glorious 13 seasons whom I would take at their best over Hoyer at his.

Though one doesn't have to apply a Bonferroni correction to keep from leaping to said conclusion, this isn't a prediction that if Hoyer signs here, he will be a flop.

There are too many variables in play to make such a declaration. Advanced analytics have nothing on deals with the devil, and Texans coach Bill O'Brien is familiar with Hoyer from his years with the Patriots.

But Hoyer never has been good or efficient - his career completion percentage (56.5) is among the worst in the league since he came in undrafted in 2009 - so imagining him being good or efficient with the Texans is wishful thinking.

If the Texans have resigned themselves to accepting mediocrity at quarterback, they should roll with Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Hoyer, 29, is four years younger than Fitzpatrick, but the Harvard graduate has five times as much experience and is a better player.

Maybe after going through four quarterbacks last year - Mallett went down with a torn pectoral muscle, Fitzpatrick a broken leg, and Tom Savage a knee injury - the Texans want as many arms around as possible. But if the Texans see Hoyer as a better backup to Mallett than Fitzpatrick, they need new glasses.

QB rating below average

The Texans' offense will miss the leadership of center Chris Myers, who was cut last week, and wide receiver Andre Johnson, who we assume will be told to pack up and leave soon.

Fitzpatrick's leadership has value, but there is more to it than that.

Hoyer is tough. He is a competitor. He never quits. Translation: He is not that good of a football player.

ESPN's interesting-but-not-perfect QBR uses a variety of statistics in an exhaustive formula to measure a quarterback's play on a scale of 1 to 100 - the low being what an accountant could do at quarterback on any given Sunday and the high being better than anything you have seen from Tom Brady or Peyton Manning.

Hoyer's QBR has been below average every year except 2011, when he came off the bench for the Patriots and threw one pass - a 22-yard completion - all season.

That the Texans are losing the glue to their offensive line and the franchise's most consistent player and are considering Hoyer at quarterback doesn't mean the season is over six months before it begins. It is very early on the team-building calendar...

...For the team to come close to the playoffs again, however, the offense needs to take a step forward.

Hoyer is, at best, a step sideways.


Link

Other than to deceive readers, why would you post a dated, opinion piece about Hoyer?

Did you somehow miss more current articles?

Did you miss articles that were more straightforward and relied more on facts rather than opinions?

Did you miss the article from last year where Joe T. talked about Hoyer vs Manziel starting?

It's amazing at how hard some of you work to deceive other posters.

All he does is win. 10-6 with 1-15 without.

Everything I have read to this point says that O Brien is leaning towards Hoyer as well. Although in shorts who knows?

Never said that Hoyer was the greatest he has limited physical ability but he does win games 10-6 when no one else seems to be able too 1-15.

In a bottom line results driven league Hoyer delivers most of the time, until we have better he should have been the man here in Cleveland.

So go ahead and skip over the winning ways of Hoyer in favor of the losing ways of McCown just don't try to tell me we are better with McCown then we were with Hoyer I'm not buying that POS used car line of crap.

J/C

Do all of you consider Andy Dalton a "winning" QB?

I'd like to see a QB win a few playoff games before declaring him a winner.

much more than mCcown.

Dalton is one of those guys that will delight you at times and confound you at times as well. Yeah like Hoyer in many respects, but you don't see Cincy going out and signing McCown as his replacement either. Imagine how we would laugh at Cincy if they did?

Imagine how we would laugh at any team that did that in fact, and tried to sell it like its being packaged here. Sad right?

Hoyer is 9-6 with a no decision as the starter.

Just so everyone is on the same page.

The Browns front office decided he was the starter?

Or Hoyer and his extremely lousy four game stretch of bad football decided Manziel was the starter?

This is the one argument for that keeps me in Hoyer's camp. Given the right surrounding Hoyer can thrive. Wait, isn't that also what they say about McCown. With McCown, he had the right environment once for four games.

If you can stop with the used car bit because people aren't buying all your points, it could very well turn into a pretty good discussion. It really doesn't add anything.

Sometimes the truth hurts. Call it tough love.

I know this the Texans and the Browns have very similar teams, and I would assume Hoyer is on the verge of securing the starters roll there. Although before I go further many or most fans on this board said it would never happen. Lets just see who wins more games this year and continue the conversation then. I have grown very tired of the Hoyer debate, I won't bend and none of you will either.

I can't even make a post without the Hoyer this or that argument being slung my way in a week attempt to discredit me. The thing is Bug you have known me for sometime now, when this dawg digs in he doesn't waver nor does he waffle. And not always but more often then not I have a pretty good accurate take, and more often then not it puts me in direct odds with the majority, so I don't mind a bit.

This entire Hoyer thing has been beaten to a pulp. Doesn't mean when folks start misrepresenting the facts I won't correct them but I have no interest in any sort of discussion of Hoyer. At this point my comments and take are all hostile and will continue to be until when next I discus and that will be along the lines of well, where are we. How did we make out with the used car? How did Hoyer do in Texas?

Sorry, but that simply is not true. We started Manziel in week 15. (our 14th game) At that point, we were 7-6, and out of the playoff race. At one point, we were 6-3, and 7-4, and then the bottom fell out. At 7-6, IIRC, we were something like 12th position for the playoffs, and essentially were out of it. We had nothing to lose at that point by playing Manziel, and seeing if he could spark the team.

so there was still a chance? slim but a chance.

Sure, and there's a chance that I could be the next President of the United States too.

We would have had to have won all of our final 3 games to have made the playoffs. We would have had to do so with a QB who, in the final 9 games in which he played, threw 5 TD and 12 INT. (as opposed to 7 TD and 1 INT through his 1st 5 games) Possible? Sure, a remote possibility. Likely? Not really.

Tough Love...ahhh, I'll leave it. I try avoiding the drama.

I know it's been reported Hoyer is getting more love than Mallet. Remember they are wearing shorts. Hoyer is most likely a lot more prepared. Also, this time of year you can't possible quote any media reports. Remember Grossi stating Browns are moving on from Manziel. Very next week Browns list Johnny second string. If they are moving on, then other guys really suck big. You know what I am saying! On several web sites, they quote Grossi as inside knowledge. Dude hasn't broken a story in 20 years. Yet, everyone quotes. Here is where I agree with Tab!!!! Bozos! I'll wait until preseason. I'm betting Mallet...it's more a long term thing.

I get you are lone wolf on support of Hoyer. I know, at least I think I know, you are very patient once you make a decision. I really like Hoyer and was looking for something to champion the cause.

I'm totally puzzled on Hoyer. I see the things you are stating. I really do. For some reason, the league isn't seeing. You think Hoyer broke some sacred trust or something. There is no doubt Hoyer needs a supporting cast. I thought the same with McCoy and think the same with Manziel. What I concluded is Hoyer wants some team to be all in with him. It will never be. He may have come to grips when signing with Texas. He must approach it as if he is being replaced every year. It is why I think Farmer moved on.

I believed Hoyer could have been a starter here for two or three years. Manziel finally maturing winning the position. To me, it was ideal for everyone. Instead we switch to McCown. I do think McCown is a step down form Hoyer. I don't see this huge gap in play. Hoyer has more "it" factor.

I don't even have a good reason maybe wishful thinking. I still believe in Manziel. He got a strong dose of reality last year. I've seen once I've seen it ten fold. Little pieces of s__t straight out of school thinking they are a gift get beat down. More times than not they come out a better person changed. There is something about a big o'piece of humble pie. All I'm saying here is be patient. I think this little sprout bears fruit.

BTTB good discussion.

Browns over/under....JMHO, Titans, Raiders, we are probably favored to win, all other games we are underdogs, mostly big time...2-4 in division last year...and recent history, that was good year...so 6 1/2 is a long shot...hope Pettine doesn't get fired if we go 5-11...we are better, but the division we caught is tough AND we haven't been respectable in our division for long time.....hope for best....I ain't betting my money on the over.....GO Browns!!!!

This a reasonable and fair post.

Prior to the December 14th match up Brian Hoyer had kind of crapped the bed...

-He led 1 TD drive in 29 attempts. (a rushing TD against the Colts).
-He threw 8 INT's in a 4-game span.
-The week before against Indianapolis the offense had 14 possessions and generated 10 points.
-Hadn't thrown a TD since 2nd quarter vs. Houston.
-One of the lowest completion percentages in the entire NFL.

It puts Mike Pettine between a rock and a hard place.

Do you ignore the FACT that your starting QB is playing poorly and continue to start him? Or do you take a chance on your rookie 1st rounder and see if he can shake things up?

Obviously things didn't go in our favor, and Manziel crapped the bed too, but what if he had played well? Would anyone be debating the switch right now? Doubt it.

Just one of those feast or famine kind of deals.

Hoyer benched himself.

Hoyer raised the bar for QB play by starting 6-3 and thrashing two division opponents, and then he completely tripped over the damn thing and stunk. Trying Manziel was the smart move, at least in my opinion.

BS plain and simple and this has ZERO to do with Hoyer.

He was NOT prepared to play and the HC and the FO and every member of the coaching staff and the team knew it. IF there were ever a bone to pick it was this deal here for a lot of reasons.

They knew where Johnny was and if they didn't then they have no business being in charge of anything. If i were to take them to task about something this would be pretty high on my list. It would be like did you know he wasn't ready? How is it you can call yourself a NFL HC and not know. They knew they chose to play him because they had been planning to do it all all along most likely in that very game and that time and they followed that plan without regard to Johnny being ready. It made Johnny look bad but it also made them look bad too. I mean honestly how could they now KNOW?

I certainly understand the level of frustration BTTB.

I'm trying to look at the situation objectively.

Hoyer had some real head scratching moments in the 2nd half of the season, and as a frustrated fan I'll even admit that I was ready to see Johnny Manziel, and I'll even admit now that it was a mistake.

Given the four straight weeks of poor showings, and a completely ineffective offense, how could a change not have been warranted is what I'm asking.

Hoyer had fallen apart by that time. We were in the 12th spot in the playoff race. We had lost 2 in a row, and 3 of 4 ..... and Hoyer was in the midst of a flat out awful stretch of football. In the 8 games leading up to Cincinnati, Hoyer had a stretch of 8 games Hoyer had thrown 4 TD and 11 INT. The QB spot had become a problem, but Pettine, probably realizing that he didn't have a choice, stayed with Hoyer until there was no other choice. Week 15 was that point. Hoyer had fallen apart as far as performing on the field. He had fallen apart from a mechanics aspect. He was making some awful decisions. We had fallen out of serious playoff contention. Could we have made the playoffs anyway? Maybe. Could we have made the playoffs with the play we were getting from Hoyer at that point in the season? Not a chance. That's why the team went to Manziel. My guess is that Pettine hopes that he would be the one in a thousand guy who is a gamer, but who practices poorly.I also wonder if Pettine decided to show Manziel just how much he had to learn. Regardless, when we lost to Indy, we fell behind every single team that was left in playoff contention. We were out, and everyone knew it. That is why we threw Manziel into the deep end.(I suspect)

NFL Playoff Standings: Entering Week 15
http://fansided.com/2014/12/08/nfl-playoff-standings-entering-week-15/

I still dont know how we lost that game to Indy..

If only our defense had been able to hold Andrew Luck back... You know.. after Hoyer put the team in position to win..

forgot we were only 1 game behind the bengal and ravens in the wild card race. we were that close!!!!!