DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Johnny Manziel...continued x2

I haven't lost all hope w/Manziel, but I don't see any logic whatsoever in you losing all hope because of a 4 game stretch, while ignoring his overall 10 and 6 record as a starter.

Vers it was not just a 4 game stretch. Its just like it was with Trich, when he was being heralded as the next great back, I saw things that told me he was not an NFL back. I saw things in Hoyer that told me he was nothing more than a backup getting away with fatal mistakes. I pointed those things out and was labeled a Hater. I didnt hate Hoyer, just hated the blind eye to things he was doing and the mob mentality when you pointed out that was a stupid throw.

i want to say this. McCown is a much more accurate passer than Hoyer but again, McCown is like Jason Campbell. He can be as good as any QB in the game until he gets hit a couple times. Now as good as our line is, he is gonna get hit so with McCown we will probably get off to a quick start unless that Jets D breaks him week 1 and then here we go.

I think Pet sees his Trent Dilfer in McCown. Play great defense, run the ball and never make McCown the reason you win or lose.

Mourg, no one pointed out TRich's deficiencies before me. I still remember the wars that I had on the boards about the guy.

McCown has a terrible habit of holding the ball too long. Do you remember the difference in how people viewed our OL when Weeden was the QB vs when Hoyer was the QB?

Food for thought, bro.

Actually Vers I was the 1st that I know about, not that it really matters.

I remember very well. You were all over Weedon and I wouldn't join the party. Much of that has to do with my belief wrong or right that once the season starts its full support for the team. I would rather not say anything then rip at the team.

But you were pissed I wouldn't join in, and I said, I was far more concerned about TRich then I was about Weedon he was suppose to take the pressure off but he couldn't hit truck size holes. And from there it was a week and TRich was gone.

But the FACT is I was the guy who pointed out how bad he was, you remember incorrectly.

I don't know if he's much more accurate or not, but be careful with the stats. Completion percentages don't necessarily equate to accuracy....WRs can make up for a QB's inaccurate passes.

I also don't know if MCcown is more accurate but from what I have read he throws the long ball better. I personally think it is a lateral move Josh for Brian but only time will tell.

QB Rating (Career)

Hoyer: 76.8
McCown: 76.1

Turnovers (Int+Fumbles) per game (Career)

Hoyer: .69
McCown: 1.48

Doesn't matter any more. Hoyer's gone, McCown's here.

vers,
--Letting Skrine walk was not a good move.
--I don't like the Desir pick

Here is a switch!!! You diss Browns for getting Skrine. Now your upset over Desire. Umm, don't you think you might want to give it two years this time around? I'm only picking on you this sort of struck me as funny!

I am blessed...and cursed....w/an excellent memory.

I am NOT forgetting what I said. You and I may have both been ragging on TRich, but don't tell me I wasn't questioning TRich's abilities.

I remember being attacked repeatedly over my assumptions that TRich wasn't all that. Right Swish, mack, Daman, etc?

Wait! What?

I make this post:



And you come back w/the above?

Did I ever say that Desir can't improve?

I was pointing out that some posters can evaluate each move on its individual merit and others either love or hate the move depending on who is making it.

How the hell did you misinterpret that?

And the crazy thing is you are the only guy who addressed it, further proving how full of crap most of the posters are.

So, here is a challenge. I am asking any of you to break down the moves like I did. Give the really good, the good, the okay, the poor, the idiotic, the confusing, etc.

Most of you won't even attempt it because it is either all good or all bad.

Yeah, you guys are objective.

Vers, go back and reread my post. I was poking fun. I found it funny. These two guys you single out. It is deja vu.

I wasn't posting on this board then it was back on the old Browns board and I remember it perfectly. It went down exactly as I said....I don't make things up and this I am certain of 1000% and I said it before anyone said boo and it was before he was ever traded. I know who would remember for sure and that is Spirit and he was pissed at me for a long time after that.

so... it will be more of the same

clicking on you.

I have mixed feelings about Hoyer.

Good: seemed to rally the offence, had a knack for comeback wins.

Bad: missed a tonne of open receivers last season, or at least enough that it was a disturbing trend. Plus he started throwing off his back foot a lot, I think he started feeling the pressure of a playoff race but that's JMHO

3. when mack got hurt and Gordon came back, it disrupted the entire offence, Mack moreso than Gordon's presence, but we seemed to go away from that we were doing well (i.e. run the football effectively, then play action).

** This isn't to blame anyone, but I can see why a12, 13 years ago, posters got tired of the Couch/Holcomb debate.

Hoyer's gone, and McCown doesn't give me a lot of hope. If Manziel doesn't pan out say, by the end of the upcoming season and shows little sign of improvement, we'll be looking for another QB.

I have been doing some research on Cameron and thus have watched a lot of videos.

Man, Hoyer did leave a lot of deep balls short. They looked like punts.

Some of them resulted in Jordan getting laid out cause the balls floated too long.

Same holds true to deep balls to Travis, Taylor and Hawk. Noodle arm.

"the bridge" and "the answer" are clearly synonymous with each other.

Purple please, Memphis. (Note that I made no attempt to "fixed it" for you)

McCown is a stiff...the Browns could march nearly anyone they find bagging groceries at you local Giant Eagle and get comparable results....just marching out anyone with a heartbeat would get comparable results...

Im not going to watch this puke...the only thing we will be sniffing with McCown at QB is the basement of the division. and Manziel doesn't exactly give me a warm feeling either, but i'd rather us march him out there, see what he has, get a nice good longterm look at him, and if he sucks, then i guess we find someone else next.

We already know McCown sucks and can't hack it as an NFL starter, whya re we wasting our time with this trash...at this point, give the QB job to some young walk on that has never had a chance before...at least he may have some unknown potential because we know McCown sucks.

sorry but i'll call a spade a spade and McCown is a spade..that guy is terribad...its not even debatable...we won't win poo with him as our QB.

That's absolutely silly. And it's completely WRONG.

Yes i maybe embellished a bit, but i was expressing my disgust for wasting money on such guy as QB

This guy is atrocious...he is terribad....terribad is being nice in describing him...Pryor would be better at QB then this bum.

We would have been better off just playing Johnny all year, if he works out cool, if he sucks, find someone else...we already know McCown sucks, this is just a total waste...i'd rather have Jake Delhomme then this guy....

The only thing the Browns have to look forward too with this trash at Qb is the basement of the division.

Then I guess you don't have to waste your time watching the team this season or posting here then, right?

A BIT?

McCown was surrounded by talented targets during his time in Chicago. Along with Bennett, Brandon Marshall and Alshon Jeffery proved to be a dynamic duo at wide receiver.

With that much size available to the quarterback outside the numbers, the veteran signal-caller was able to display his deep accuracy.

There were certainly times when Marshall and Jeffery made McCown look good, but the quarterback also dropped a few dimes along the way.....



This was McCown at his finest, but he wasn't always this good even during his magical final season with the Bears. While he only finished with a single interception that year, there were multiple opportunities for defenses to capitalize on errant or forced throws. Those moments never happened, but they would a year later......


and what i have been saying. matt forte and company bailed him out of poor decisions. im not talking about mis reading the defence. i am talking throwing it up for grab plays.

and i disagree with the guy saying he got the ball out quick. watch the games. he took a beating hanging on to the ball. well we will find out who is right when the season starts.

He also had very good WRs in TB.

And he does hold the ball way too long.

Just remember the difference of perceptions regarding our OL when Weeden was our qb vs Hoyer.

I remember reading hundreds of posts talking about how terrible our OL was when Weeden was starting. That changed in a hurry.

I have always maintained that most fans have no clue about how to evaluate who is at fault in regards to sacks and pressure. They always blame the OL if the qb is sacked and/or pressured and then give all the credit to the OL when the QB is not sacked/pressured.

AFC North Q&A: How is Johnny Manziel viewed by other teams in the division?

Coley Harvey, Cincinnati Bengals: I think we all know the innermost thoughts of the head coach of the team I cover. Just before the Bengals visited the Browns in December, Marvin Lewis infamously quipped about Manziel's height in a radio interview and, regrettably, used the term "midget" to derisively dismiss the quarterback's small stature in an attempt at a joke. Lewis apologized multiple times for the mistake. Still, it was said, and it clearly was a sign of what some around the team think about Manziel privately. There also was concern from some players the past season that Manziel didn't take the game at this level seriously enough. Some defensive players thought their three-sack performance in Manziel's first career start reflected that.

Jeremy Fowler, Pittsburgh Steelers: Here's the problem: No matter how much Manziel changes his personal life -- players have openly expressed that he seems like a new guy -- skepticism remains about what he can do on the field. People around the division sense that, though the Steelers will remain fairly indifferent about him until they see him live. Let's say this: Josh McCown isn't the favorite to start solely because the Browns must give Manziel adequate time to earn the job after a 10-week rehab stint. The QB decision is based on what they've seen, both in practice and in his 18-of-35 passing for 175 yards and two interceptions in seven quarters of play. Manziel can show more accuracy and more command in training camp, but until he does so, there's no reason to believe he's a high-level NFL starter.

Jamison Hensley, Baltimore Ravens: When Manziel was coming out of college, one Ravens official told me he was a "dynamic" talent. That official acknowledged that Manziel needs polishing and it's up to the team to tailor the offense around him because he's not the typical, pro-style quarterback. The Ravens respect Manziel as an athlete, and he got their attention in their first meeting, in which he caught a 39-yard pass on a trick play (it was negated by an illegal shift penalty). As far as his demeanor, Manziel, surprisingly, has a fan in Ravens quarterback Joe Flacco. It might seem odd because Flacco has a reputation for being boring, but Flacco has said he likes Manziel's flamboyant persona and that "being hated is not a bad thing." Imagine that: Joe Cool likes Johnny Football.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/_...in-the-division

Were still better off putting JM in from the get go and moving forward with him.

We need to se ehow he progresses, sure it will probably be rough at first, but we need to see it through the whole season...either he grows and improves or he fails, either way, we need to know what we have as an organization moving forward.

JM will be in regardless because McCown will play so stinking terribad they won't have a choice, they might as well go with the rookie(which is what JM actually is) this way at the very least it takes some of the flack off in the medai by the fact they are playing a young guy to see what he has.

Knight, I would have agreed with you if it has not been for the fact that McCown has been lighting it up from the get go in minis and Ota's. Unless McCown just flat out falls on his face, Johnny will be watching again this year.

I am as big of a Johnny fan as there is but I hated what we did with his mechanics and I dont want to see that same QB we saw last year. If Johnny gets back to looking like the natural thrower he is and if he truly learns the offense then throw him in there but if not, it doesnt do him nor the Browns any good.

I would have played him from day 1 last year and allowed him to learn on the job but we chose to sit him and groom him and that appears to be the route again this year. With the rehab, mechanics issues, learning a new offense and earning his teams respect, right now this is the best path for him.

Thats not saying he shouldnt have a chance to jump McCown but he needs to light it up to get that opportunity as thus far its been McCown that has looked great out there. We will know a lot more when we play the Bills. That is the only team with a defense we play in preseason. Redskins, Bears and Bucs are college level defenses. Bills game we will learn a bit more about McCown.

I want the best we have to play. I don't care if they were drafted high or low, I don't care if they were drafted by us at all and I don't care if they were ever drafted. Nothing matters to me other than to put the best we have in to play.

Exactly! Put the best out there, no exceptions or twists.

Josh McCown is not a mannequin

http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2015/06/josh-mccown-cleveland-browns-training-camp/

Thanks PB
nothing new but I thought he did a good job of putting this piece together making it a rapid fire catch up with the offseason.

yea. i thought so too.