DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Shooting suspect in custody after Charleston church massacre

Not being able to come together on things like gun control, race, gender and politics at least explains why we've yet to tackle the really important things like coming together on a starting qb.

I elect the ghost of Otto Graham.

It's not apparent that you do either, given your follow up comments.

It's Brock Osweiler. He has the physical tools and I like what he's had to say about immigration.

And throughout history, the powers that be have never figured it out.

Look, I like you and it bothers me that your heart is so hard. Obviously, you have encountered a lot of bad situations. I am not knocking you.

Here is what I am trying to get at.........and no, Rocket.........I do not have all the answers. I am just a dummy trying my best to do what I can. I didn't give up making 5 times the amount of money that I do now because I don't want to make a difference.

Damn, I got sidetracked again. Look, I think that laws, legislation, and policies are all fine and dandy. However, I think what we have to address is how we view each other at its most basic level. That is.........how do I see you? How do you see me?

I am not kidding you that a good part of our younger generation are not nearly as prejudiced as our generations are. I read the book Maniac Magee w/my students last year. Not this past school season, but the previous one. The book is full of symbolism and it deals w/the racial divide, preconceived notions, and solving problems rather than dwelling on and creating new ones.

That particular class had 4 white students, 2 biracial students, and 20 black students. During a discussion, not one of the kids was able to identify a moment in their lives where they faced racial discrimination. Not one...........and that is the freaking truth.

So, where do we learn racism? Do any of you really believe you are born a racist? That is beyond a fairy tale.

The key is to change societal views on the issue. Yes, we need to right wrongs, but man, we as a society work very hard to keep racism alive. There isn't intense media coverage and a discussion about the three teens, ages 14, 15, and 16 killing another teen who was 15. Why not? Are there discussions and intense media coverage of a white guy killing another white guy? Why not?

I am saying that the key is through education, tolerance, and a respect for differences. It has to begin at an early age. Kids are NOT born racists. They are not born hating other groups. They are taught that. They learn it.

We must concentrate on coming together rather than accentuating the differences. We are one people. Here on earth. That's it. We are all different, but we are all human beings. We need to accept and celebrate our differences and work towards uniting as one.

Will that type of attitude solve all the problems? Hell no! But, it sure beats perpetuating hate and working hard to actually increase the divide amongst us.

Thanks.

Is it possible that rather than being unable to identify one, they were perhaps just bored with your self-important blathering and tuned you out like Charlie Brown's teacher?

No, but I am glad that you are feeling better about yourself by hurling back-to-back insults towards me.

Have a nice night.

I apologize. You're just really annoying. I hope you have a great evening as well, though.

Hey I resemble that remark!

Hey, king.
Sorry I didn't get back before now.

You'd think that after this many posts, I'd know to choose my words a bit better. Let me try to explain what I really wished to say that night.

First, understand that a good 40% of my post was fueled by anger, frustration and deep pain at yet another one of these vile acts. I grew up hearing stories just like this one from my Great Uncle Giles, a Baptist minister who was at the forefront of the Civil Rights Movement in the 50's and 60's. He told me these stories from when I was a little kid. Stories that almost never got told to the general public.

Recently, we've heard about people being tied to trees, shot in churches, dragged for 1/2 mile behind a pickup truck... acts of such malevolence and inhumanity that it's almost impossible to believe they were perpetrated by members of our species. And yet, they are just the most recent examples of what's always been going on.

For years.
For decades.
For centuries.

It all came crashing back down around me- again- while I was writing that post. "America's original sin" may be a fact of past history, but the legacy of bitterness, violence, death and intimidation that began in the Reconstruction-era South is still with us... in the 21st century. We were supposed to be better than this, by now- weren't we?

So... when I said "White America owns this one," here's what I should have said:

In the years since the Emancipation Proclamation Black Americans have stood up for themselves. They've worked to have laws passed to grant them equal status. They've started family legacies that began with less than nothing, and raised generations of families who live within the law, worked hard, and eventually gained advanced educations. They have fought and died in wars to represent this nation's interests. They have endured unspeakable indignities while trying to find and maintain their own self-worth.

And still, we live under constant threat that one day, the lowest form of American life imaginable might decide that this is the day for some of us to die. Any day. Every day.

So... we've pretty much done everything we can: to humanize ourselves, tell our American Story, to make the world see what an ongoing threat this form of terrorism is. And we've done it while pretty much 80-90% of White America has stood idly by... silently thinking, "how awful for those poor people... sure glad it isn't me or my family."

What I'd like to see is this: I'd like to see more White Americans realize that acts like these diminish America for ALL of us. They stain our world reputation, they damage our civil fabric, and metastasize cancer into the soul of our nation. Realize it, and speak out against it. I don't mean on podiums at public meetings. I don't mean during lectures in colleges or at TED talks. I mean- the next time someone starts dropping bigoted speech at a dinner party, SPEAK OUT. Someone at a backyard bbq begins talking about 'illiterate coons,' you tell them about this guy Clem with whom you interact regularly. When White Americans (the ones with consciences) hear or see this stuff, don't stand idly by any more.

Because here's the truth about America: Blacks have been doing it for themselves for over 150 years, and it's still happening. Nothing in THIS country will change unless White people make it change.

These racists are like cockroaches... and cockroaches always scurry and scatter when the lights get turned on. Presently Black Americans (and a handful of others) have been shining their flashlights, but there are still too many dark places for these vermin to hide. It's time for Whites of good conscience to grab a flashlight and join in. Sitting on the sidelines while fellow Americans are slaughtered, ambushed, tortured and hunted like animals cannot remain acceptable behavior for a 'God-fearing country.'

Whites need to share ownership in The Solution. It begins by examining where this comes from, eradicating even little bits they may find within themselves, and refusing to tolerate it from their own friends and family members. If they care, that is.

We can't do it alone. Lord knows we've tried.

________________________

I didn't use to feel this way, king. Even after all My Uncle's stories, I still thought things would be better than this by now.

Last week in that church, it might as well have been 1932 or 1894.

I just can't stop hurting from this. Not yet.


.02

The challenge that we face is that compromise has been equated to cowardness.

It was really really difficult for Nikki Haley to say what she said. A republican governor in the heart of the confederacy stating that we as a nation need to retire the rebel flag as a symbol as it represents both good and bad, and the bad is being used by some to carry forward hatred. I see some who choose to cherry pick the content and context of what was said. I laugh, to these ideologues no words would have been sufficient.

There are those who choose to criticize Obama as well. The man several times a year has to get up in front of people and talk about the senseless killing that goes on. The worse job of all. Right or wrong he tried after Sandy Hook to change the situation. It was a failed attempt.

So many times we look back on the good old days, but fail to recognize that in many respects, we are looking though rose colored glasses.

So much of our politics is driven by ideology, and that is our burden. We need to be more practical and pragmatic as a people and nation to co exist in a world where we are closer than ever before.

our politics is driven by the same crap that our citizens fall too: the rampant media race war going on between leftist media groups and right wing media group.

fear.

somebody posted a link where they said while homicide rates are down, mass murders are up.

So the right is gonna only report about homicide rates going down, the left is only gonna report mass murders going up.

but both sides come together in scaring the crap out of masses.

is there somebody watching your kids play in the pool right now?
is there a guy in the van waiting in front of the school?
can you walk alone at night?
can you take a jog out at night?
are black teens playing a new knock out game, spreading across the country as a plague?
are whites closet racist?
are the asians trying to secretly take over the country?
can brocolli decay your gums?
there could be an ISIS recruit, right next door, more at 11.

Hell if i only paid attention to the news, i'd go out and buy a gun too.

we got the media playing the race/gun/religious war because those 3 hot topics brings in the most money. sprinkle some good old fashion terrorism in there, and the topics are so hot, they should start a boy band group.

people can act enlightened on this board all they want. the fact of the matter is that we all have fell victim to getting spoon fed nonsense from the media that has swayed our views about religion, race, and guns.

Obama has had to make a speech for what? 14 mass shootings or something? if that isn't the most for any president, it's up there.

so we traded homicide rates for mass killings. what progress.....

The media will tell you it's what people are interested in.

To me that's the chicken or the egg or the dog chasing its own tail.

Folks need to stop focusing on race. Stop seeing yourself as a member of a group (African America, Chinese-American, etc") and start seeing yourself as a damn individual...in doing so you will be freeing yourself from the chains those people like Sharpton and others are creating for you. You will never be successful in life nor break free as long as you continue to buy into the garbage they are selling.

All side of the race thing are hypocrites....

Africian Americans had a part in the Tail End of the Indian War's killing and butchering Native Americans.

African Americans had a part in rounding up the Japanese during WW2 and putting them in prison camps at gunpoint.

You do realize the Japanese being rounded up at gunpoint and put into prison camps was just a little over 75 years ago? Imagine being watched with barbwire and towers with military men having a gun on you at all times, being worse then a criminal just because your Japanese,.

The Japanese were treated far worse then the African American's ever were as Slaves..many Japanese people died in those prison camps, those who didn't were scared forever after spending years under lock, key, watch, and gunpoint for doing nothing other then being Japanese.

folks need to take a really big look in the mirror...all the races are guilty of this type of oppressive non-sense, we need to get past it and move on.

You can either die in the past looking in the rearview mirror, or you can live into the future hitting the freeway at 70, its your choice.

The media and liberal left need to quit spouting nonsense because there are not innocent people and the Japanese and the Native Americans are the people who were treated the worst in the history of our entire country and they are also the most quiet and humble...

I don't get any pleasure out of posting this, but wow..sometimes folks just need to get some perspective here....oh and Sharpton and his buddies need to take back his comments about Jewish people, that was just downright awful.

My point is we just need to leave the past in the past, let this nonsense go, stop talking about it, stop bringing it up, move forward as a darn country.

be quiet.

how you gonna talk about "all" races, then make a list strictly talking about what blacks do?

that's about as biased as you can get.

and the japanese got treated worse?

that fact that you don't realize that the past is affecting us today let's me know nothing you say has any credibility.

i would love to see myself as an individual, but maybe the race running the country should do the same. cause they damn sure don't treat us that way.

To be honest African-American history does have significant evidence of way worse treatment then the Japanese.

Not excusing WWII internment camps, but they weren't brought here from Japan at the risk of dying on the way, being sold to someone, forced to work, families intentionally separated, breeding and just plain brutality.

I don't think we can just tell African-Americans, "get over it".

A Black man walking through a White neighborhood will hear car doors lock and may even be approached by the Police.

A White man walking through a Black neighborhood is risking his life.

A Black man walking through a Black neighborhood is risking his life.

Fact or Press induced BS?

press induced. there's a bunch of whites that live here in East cleveland, oh so dangerous.

i'd say a black person has risking his life walking through a white neighborhood just as much as vise versa.

Posts like that only fuel the fire. We should be trying to come together rather than widening the gap w/comments designed to instigate.

Oh ok, I will shut up and not express concerns that many have about the subject of Racism. My bad.

I agree with what you posted here, but I also find it ironic you feel this way about the media, but you are often one of the first to post race related articles, which is just furthering their agenda.

like i said, i'm not immune to it.

if i wanted to, i'd post like 5 a day, so i try my best to leave it to only major ones.

I understand, sometimes things hit an emotional chord, and we're just compelled to put it out there. And sometimes it's just good to expose things, to help us all understand it better, and start discussion.

I've thought about this.. and I will reserve judgment on how bad I feel for the family until more is learned, and my guess is that it will be. I have a real hard time believing that a kid could get to this depth of racism on his own without it being deeply rooted in the family. So I'm not blaming them yet, but I'm holding back on just how bad I feel for them also.


Oh, I think people want solutions... and if these other groups could just fix their issues the way I told them to, then we'd be fine. See, I'm all about solutions. Seriously, I believe that is the way many people approach the problems.

Take poverty and urban crime... some folks believe the only solution is for those in poverty and prone to crime to straighten up their act, take responsibility for themselves and get out of poverty and become upstanding citizens... others believe the solution is for the government or business to give them more opportunity so they can work their way out of poverty, which would reduce crime, some place the blame squarely on the shoulders of "white privilege"....

I firmly believe that my signature is true... if the answer to a complex problem seems simple, it's probably wrong. I also believe that people look for "perfect" solutions.... well even if you provide opportunity to those in poverty, some are lazy and won't take it... ok, then we'll deal with that, but let's try to provide opportunity to those who really do want it.... or the, "I know a guy who works real hard and still can't get out of poverty" so working doesn't always work... no, not always, but most of the time working hard improves your chances of success, so let's deal with that.


No. Well, kinda..... One of the most galvanizing forces of human beings is a common enemy... It's not just in this country but when have Americans come together the closest to overcome our own differences to work together? To fight the Nazis? To fight communism? To fight terrorists? Without that common enemy, it's almost like our human nature just leads us to start turning on each other. You show me some of the most ardent racists of the south and most of them will show some level of respect for a black soldier because the common enemy of terrorism is greater than his personal dislike for the black guy... But once the common enemy is removed.. it's just a racist and a black guy again...

[/soapbox]

Give me a break! You have no idea how the Japanese were treated...don't make me go find pictures to show you just how wrong you are....Being snatched from your home, denied a right to a lawyer, denied a right to see a judge, having a damn gun pointed in your face, and being carted off to some damn military prison camp with barbed wire, armed soldiers watching over you, in wretched desert conditions is darn deplorable.

You have no right to marginalize their plight.

Yes i made a list about what Blacks have done as an example of hypocrisy because they seem to think they are the only ones that have ever been enslaved or discriminated against and its not true.I could make list about every race.

The Jews have been enslaved, butchered, and kicked out of over 109 countries....yes 109 different countries have persecuted and kicked the jews out or enslaved them or butchered them....is their plight any less important?

The past only effects us today because YOU allow it.

It was 150 years ago, its ancient stinky history, get over it! The country will never move forward until you do.

Get over it, your no longer a slave, quit making excuse about the damn past and focus on the damn future.

Why does it bother you so much to talk about the past?

i never once marginalized what happened to the japanese. but at the end of the day, its incomparably to slavery. period.

and no idea how the japanese were treated? was you in the camps? you got first hand knowledge? you got history to make your claim, just i like do with mine.

military prison camp sucks. you know whats worse? working in 90-100 degree weather from sun up to sun down in southern humidity, watching your women get raped and your brothers get lynched.

yea man..the japanese totally had it worse than blacks.

once again, you have no idea what you're talking about. blacks do not think we're the only ones going through this.

you don't want me to marginalized japanese, but thats exactly what you're doing with blacks. once you stop being a hypocrite, maybe you'll become enlighten in the fact that we fight for all equal treatment of minorities, not just blacks.

i don't allow anything. i have no authority on politics and the justice system.

you wanna talk about moving forward, yet i still gotta mark whether im black or not on my applications.

i got pulled over constantly in the south and searched for drugs. but thats my fault too right? i'm just suppose to get over it, and act like it never happens right?

you sound like some of the same losers who run colleges and try to cover up sexual assaults.

or the same losers who blame women for rape cause "they were asking for it"

you're a joke.

Arguing over which race had it harder is like watching two midgets see who is taller.

it doesn't bother me.

Folks are just drudging up things in the past and using it for some cause and blaming everything on race, yes it sucked about slavery and every other atrocity that has occurred in our history. We need to jsut let it go, everyone, and move forward and see people as individuals instead of some damn group and move forward as people.

Don't any of you want a better generation for your kids? Don't you want a world where your judged on your individaul merits instead of some other nonsense...as long as we keep bringing this up all the time things will never change for the better.

These type of thoughts encourage others to ignore past wrongs, fail to let us learn from repeating past mistakes, and lack finding justice for past wrongs.

NO ONE is ever saying you are responsible for the past. Instead, we're responsible for acknowledging the wrongs, finding ways to fix the past, and move forward while taking into account prior wrongdoings.

People need to embrace the cognitive dissonance caused by what many label as "white guilt".

I recall saying we should get rid of any race designation, and I was called names by a lot of people. It seemed to me at the time that most minorities want to keep their status without having it used against them. I think all race questions should be removed from all government forms. What do they use it for, other than tracking ethnicity to divide us with, anyway?

Personally, I don't see myself as 'white'. I'm a 5th generation German born in the US. That makes me an American. I have no intentions of ever moving to Germany or adopting their policies, as I am an American. The largest ethnic group in the US is still German, but we are Americans.

Really helps move the debate forward doesn't it?

My Wife is German and she can completely relate to what you're saying.

she hates being called white by her co-workers(who are white.) she sees herself as German. you're either American or you're not.

i personally know i wasn't the one calling you any names.

I'm one of the biggest advocates of getting rid of labels, but until then, we have to address it as such.

I dunno why people would think(not saying you, but others) i don't want that. i say it over and over again on this board, i want to be called American. nothing more. when you go overseas, they don't call you white or black or latino. They call us American.

As a matter of fact I do, because i knew someone for many years who died a few years ago that was actually in one...so yes i do know EXACTLY the nonsense they went though it was total hell, hell you will never understand.



Were you alive when all this was going on? hmm...you don't think Japense women were not raped in those military prison camps? You don't think people were not killed or beat to death by soliders? hmm



I am in no way marginalizing Blacks, im giving examples of others situations as bad or worse then Blacks and showing those people don't bring it up every time somehthing happens...do Japanese Americans riot and loot when a cop shoots a young Japanese-American kid? Answer me that...do the Jews loot stores everytime something happens to a jewish boy or girl? Do you see what i am getting at, or is this going over your head too?



Oh but you do! You have every advantage you could ever possibly want and still complain. My freind just had to pay over 6 figures to go to law school, many young African-American men got a free ride and over half them dropped out, but yet they are going to complain? I wish i got a free ride, I wish i had a law on the books that said they had to hire me based on my race. You have all kinds of advantages that could be used to give you a voice in the political system, they just refuse to use them[/quote]



You can be the bigger man and leave the field blank and quit conforming to soceities mistakes and errors. [/quote]



There are bad people everywhere, its BS you were pulled over all the time, just like its BS i don't get a civil service job because of my skin color, were both getting the short end of the stick in different ways, I will however not allow that to get in the way of me treating anyone regardless of their skin color or race as my brother or sister. Jesus said turn the other cheek, that means get over it. Life is too short to focus on all the injustices in the world, best to focus on positive things that make you happy.



Loser and a joke...im sorry you feel this way. Im only trying to help you. I want nothing but to see Blacks be successful, and im trying offer the tools and wisdom to allow that to happen by trying to encourage you to move forward and forget the past, life is for the living.

what good can possibly come out of harboring feelings of resentment and hate...those feelings do nothing but eat at your very soul and who you are, they get in the way of success, and promote feelings of despair and lead to failures which are then carried forward for your children to fail.

Young African Americans NEED an example, someone who will ignore and let go of the past nonsense, and succeed in spite of it, will succeed because he works is tail off, he keeps grinding, keeps getting up when knocked down, and never makes excuses or even mentions race or the past..just 1 man/woman that could do this could change everything for African-Americans, could show them that they can get past it.

Im sorry you feel that way about me because you know what im only trying to help you, yes my examples were harsh, but sometimes you have to hit someone in the ehad with a brick to get their attention. I got yours so it worked.

You think long and hard...ask yourself...is harboring these feelings of resentment ever going to help you? your kids? other African Americans? Is it ever going to help them be sucessful? You know the answer to that.

the first step towards fixing things is leaving the past in the past, forgetting about it, moving forward, focusing on the future and success, and ignoring anyone who brings it up, its not important anymore, what matters now is THE PRESENT AND THE FUTURE. What matters now is gathering the knowledge and tools so your family will be successful moving forward.

At the end of the day, Success and failure is in your hands...use those days like that cop harrassing you as motivation to succeed in spite of him, so you cna rub it in his face...thats how you move forward, thats how you make good on the future.

Im sorry you feel that way about me, but if i got your attention enough that just a little bit of this message seeps though, then you disliking me will be worth it's weight in gold.

Were not responsible for acknowledging anything, the Civil WAr was fought and paid in blood so we wouldn't have to.

None of us regardless of race was even alive back then, none of us have ever owned slaves or been owned as a slave..none of us have a poker in the fire...were just making excuses to stick one in someplace it don't belong.

i doing what i can to make it in this world. i don't make excuses for myself. however, minorities as a whole have a lot of issues to get past in this country just to get to ground zero.

i'm good. i made it(compared to other people) but that doesn't mean i just get to ignore the stuff thats happening to other people.

i don't know about free schooling for others, as i had to earn my schooling the hardest way possible.

you know people, but you don't PERSONALLY know anything the japanese went through, or any other group for that matter.

you can complain about education and jobs are you want, but the fact of the matter is that these scholarships and affirmative action wouldn't be needed if there wasn't a racial barrier to begin with. you seem to forget that part. there's a REASON this stuff had to come about. it wasn't just made up out of thin air.

resentment? yes i have some resentment, and it absolutely is a motivating factor as to why i do what i do. why shouldn't i have resentment? that i have a german wife and get nasty ass looks in public? or they look at my biracial kids then at me, like they aren't mine.

it's easy to take the moral high ground when you're not the one being affected by stuff like this. my dad didn't give me the talk. he gave me THE talk about law enforcement. and sure enough, i had to go through it.

i've been on this board battling against racism. i've also spent numerous post talking about how the black community needs to take some ownership with their actions.

this isn't some one way street like you make it out to be. and that's the problem. there's a mass amount of people who think just like you do, and it's making race relations in this country move at a snail's pace.

Short persons

We're responsible, as American citizens, to help further the condition of other human beings of this nation. Part of that involves looking at the past.