DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Shooting suspect in custody after Charleston church massacre

I think you have me confused as someone who wants to debate which minority faced harder discrimination.

I'm really not agreeing with much of what you say, but I do appreciate that you don't feel pressured to not state yourself.

I think talk is about all we can manage on this board and I hear what you're saying.

Except in France they say it with a roll of their eyes.

There is a big gray area depending on your perspective... where acknowledging it and learning from it crosses over into dwelling on it and using it as either a weapon or an excuse. It is within that gray area that the discussion tends to melt down.

As a near 50 year old white guy who came of age in the 80s.. I can't deny what happened, because it did. At the same time, I shouldn't be beaten over the head with it because I had nothing to do with it.

How do you propose that we work to do what you suggest? (which I also would like to see happen)

I think that the world will be a much better place when we are all just "people", and not hyphenated people. It is perfectly fine, and in fact is desirable, for people to celebrate their heritage ...... but it should be just that, a celebration. On an everyday basis, we should just be people.

I do find it funny, though, that many continue to champion color and nationality labels while trying their best to blur the lines between male and female.

Arguing whether slavery or Japanese interment was worse is a lot like asking whether it's worse having your arm or your leg chopped off with a hacksaw. How about just saying that both were horrible, and a shame on this great country of ours?

Vertically challenged.

Gravity sensitive

Who you calling fat?

Oh wait .... that would be me.

Never mind.

This thread is about a white guy who went into a church and killed 9 blacks.

Do you see how your comments are insensitive and misplaced?

I could come add to your list:

--Who's safer, the guys you talked about or a black person attending church?

You might want to show a bit of compassion and understanding towards the black members of this board. We should be working on healing rather than adding fuel to the fire.

I think you misinterpreted DC's intent. I believe he was agreeing w/you.

-You mean like when I posted this on page 1?...

Very sad. We lost some mighty fine people to this young man.

A classic case of Good vs Evil.
Good was doing as Good does when Evil lashed out in hate and rage
to devour the Good. Sad but eternal. May God bless them all.

-And then when thread turned to finding solutions for racism, swish made the statement about the Press pumping up fear so I asked a question about the fears people have and you told me to shut up?
Is that the respect you are talking about?

And when you say...
You might want to show a bit of compassion and understanding towards the black members of this board.

I know Swish, Lurker and Clem are Black because they said so.

I have been naively speaking to people who appeared Dark with Orange type the rest of the time.

It's ok, he just disagrees with me out of habit.

Well if you weren't one of those liberal fence riders, that wouldn't happen.

On a related note, I see where Kanye was on stage in Atlanta the other day and decided to do some free-style rapping about the tragedy in Charleston. Evidently he compared the shooting of 9 innocent people with his own professional struggles and then complained that the state of North Carolina isn't doing anything about it.

My bad. Certainly misread that as you supporting the Asian vs African discrimination argument.

Kanye matters as much to me as a booger in your nose. I may tell you one time "hey, you got a booger", but after that, you're on your own.

At least Taylor Swift likes him.

I hear what you are saying, but man, I think compassion, understanding, and empathy are in order.

How the heck do you go to church and get murdered by some whacked racist? That should never happen. I don't think people should just move on and jump right back into their old, tired ways.

We need to reexamine where we are at as a country. I see too much hate and blame being assigned by both sides in these debates. Very few people want to work to find a solution.

Even fewer want to change their own ways to begin fixing the issue.

All I read on here is hate and blame.

There are only a few posters who seemingly want to fix things. Clem, DC, Florida, myself, and perhaps a couple of others I have missed. The rest seemingly want to widen the divide.

I'm getting off track. I just think you should be a bit more sympathetic and cognizant of what this horrific murders of innocent people means to black people. It might be time to get off the political high-horse and show that you actually care about others?

Moving on...........the scariest thing for me is that there always seems to be copy-cat murders when something like this happens. Some other freaking loser might actually be inspired to "top" what just happened in SC. And then, there might be reverse hate crimes, because "they did it to us...."

No one, other than perhaps DC, wants to discuss this or think about it............but, we really do need to find ways to come together. I fear that the end results could be devastating in epic proportions if we do not work on fixes rather than furthering the divide.

No. I will not give compassion, understanding or empathy to the Black People of these Boards when this horrible, cruel and meaningless attack and murders has happened to every man, woman and child of us. It is an affront to all Humanity. I will single out no group with my sympathy as I grieve for us all.

I am curious ...... How do you fix hatred so powerful that it leads a person to do as this person did?

How do you fix evil behavior, or maybe even evil itself?

This man not only killed people in a heartless and vile manner, but he pretended to want to become part of their church before he killed those innocent souls. It wasn't even like he just walked in and opened fire. I think that people could understand that better than what he actually did instead. He didn't just walk in and open fire, not knowing anything about the people he killed .... but instead he sat down with the people of the church, partook of their love and hospitality, and then, coldly, went about killing those very people whose church family he had pretended to care about joining.

I think that the murder of innocent people, especially in this manner, hurts people everywhere. My church was way down in attendance this past Sunday. One of the older ladies in my church was actually scared when she thought about coming to church. I am sure that she wasn't alone. Christians everywhere have always felt a sense of safety and security when going to church, and this security was violated by this man, and what he did. My church only has a few Black people in it. Nonetheless, we feel a connection with those killed in this horrible and senseless murder, because they are our brothers and sisters in Christ, no matter what the color of their skin.

First it starts with a conversation. The conversation, for many, is incredibly tough for most. Here's a link a member here shared with me. I won't post the full article as it won't format correctly. But, do give it a read. Don't attack the source, either. It's pertinent info in our day and age.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/good-men-p..._b_7183710.html

In my eyes, it starts with the parents.

I wasn't clear. I was not talking about "fixing" guys like him. There will always be evil in the world.

What I was trying to say was that the rest of us need to deal w/our differences, past transgressions, misconceptions, grudges, etc in a more productive way.

Many like to mention that we need to have conversation about all the wrongs that have been done so we can fix them. I agree w/that, but I disagree w/dwelling on them to the point where resentments, anger, and anger are the prevailing thoughts. Thus, I think we need to recognize the dreadful acts and then move progressively to ensure that larger acts such as slavery, the holocaust, displacing people and sticking them on reservations, etc don't every occur again....and individualized acts such as the church murders are minimized.

I think it starts w/ourselves. Can each of us truly look at a person who is different from us [race, sex, culture, etc] and not judge him until we have time to evaluate their "acts" rather than prejudging them just because of how they look.

We pass that along to our children. We ensure this type of thinking is in place in our schools.

Children aren't born racist. Put several 2-year olds in a room and they will all play w/one another. Racism and other forms of exclusion are learned. And if they can be learned, they can be unlearned.

In my mind, it's all about recognizing the problems of the past and then moving forward to try and fix the problems rather than dwelling on the those problems and using them as an excuse to justify why we don't like each other.

Do I think everyone is going to buy into this type of thinking? Hell no, but all I can do is to make sure I live my life in that manner and try to encourage others to understand that we will be much better off if we are united as opposed to a nation divided.

Some might say it is unrealistic, but race relations have improved dramatically since the time I was a kid and they certainly have improved from the 1865 when Reconstruction began. So, nothing is impossible if we have the right goals in place and give them time to reach their fruition.

And I certainly know this........I would much rather go through life w/an open mind and compassionate heart than be full of hate and resentment.

Love. First, you aren't going to fix everybody, there is always the chance that somebody like this could come out of nowhere.. this kid didn't come out of nowhere. He bragged about what he was going to do to his friends who now feel like crap because they didn't believe him. Though, from what I understand, they did try to hide his gun. This kid shot and killed 9 people and his stated goal is that he wanted to start a race war. In order to feel like that was possible, he had to feel like the racial divide was such that one incident could spark a war, he had to feel like he would have significant support for what he did, he had to feel that the animosity felt by blacks would be so strong that they would retaliate... why would he feel that way? Because that's the impression one gets if they watch the news and the reporting on things like Ferguson and other places... that the hatred is deep enough that one shot could set the whole thing off... That part, we as a culture can fix that by changing the way we treat each other, changing the way we talk about each other, change the way we consume "news", change the way we assign blame. Is it going to be easy? Hell no it's not going to be easy, changing the way a couple hundred million people respond and view each other is never going to be easy. Changing the way we consume news isn't going to be easy, stop giving the biggest platform to the loudest, most radical mouths. Be slow to anger, quick to forgive, reach first for understanding and common ground instead of pointing fingers and placing blame.


John F. Kennedy said, "The Only Thing Necessary for the Triumph of Evil is that Good Men Do Nothing." So if we all consider ourselves good men (people)... then do something. Reach out to people, find ways to help your fellow man regardless of their skin color, their sexual orientation, their social status.... do as Charleston has admirably done and stand up together in a unified fashion against evil and say this is NOT about black vs white, this is about one radical lunatic against a community of people.... if somebody does something evil in the name of Christianity, and you consider yourself a Christian, be the first to stand up, don't look for reasons to defend it or equivocate it, call it what it is.... same thing if you are black or white or gay or Muslim or southern or northern.... if it's done in the name of something you hold dear, be the first to stand up.... let the people who do horrible things know that they will not be defended by "their own", that nobody is going to glorify what they did, nobody is going to try to assign some measure of nobility to evil deeds. There is NO justification for shooting 9 people, there is NO justification for burning and looting stores, there is NO justification for harboring criminals or hiding them or defending them, there is NO justification for speaking hate, even if you disagree.

Nice.

I'm not sure anyone could have done much.

Sure get him evaluated, whatever. The guy apparently had a plan, as Ytown said, he sat with these folks for an hour? He may have had mental issues, but he had more hatred/anger issues than mental.

Essentially, they would evaluate him, then send him home.

probably not. But I'm not talking about stopping any individual incident. That is how we tend to compartmentalize our discussions.... well what could we have done to prevent this incident? Nothing. Ok, we're good then. Or the kneejerk reaction, quick take down that confederate flag and stop selling Dukes of Hazzard toys on e-bay because they have confederate flags on them... done? Ok good, we probably stopped a second incident.. really?

I'm talking about a cultural change that changes the entire tone of debate, the response to events, the way people view each other.... Is that an ambitious goal for a nobody without a platform that anybody wants to listen to? Of course it is... but there are plenty of others out there who feel like I do.. probably some on this board.. As Martin Luther said, "Let there be reform, and let it start with me."

Sorry, DC, my reply was in general, not directed at you or anything you said. I just forgot the /JC.

I agree about the anger issues.

I doubt he's anymore mentally ill than any terrorist. He believed in a dogma preached by a group.

Straight up terrorist.

Mental illness is not usually discussed when talking about terrorists. I think it's best not to cut this guy any slack at all other than he's part of a terrorist group and was coerced.

The incident would never had happened if I had been invited to the meeting. His gun would never have cleared his pants. His final words would have been "I'm here to kill Bla.....
This thread would be about crazy White people in a Black Church and their guns.
I know it doesn't help fix racism but I just wanted to mention it.

I believe the biggest exploit of pleading insanity is the 'claim' they didn't know what they were doing. This scum had no issues admitting he wanted to start a race war. Him being able to plead insanity for a lesser punishment seems far fetched for him. Hopefully anyway.

I get the sentiment, and understand it, but where the train of thought goes from there is completely off the mark.



One whack job did this. One lone individual. It wasn't a concerted effort of the masses. There is nothing for people to reexamine. There is no solution to find.

Whack job did his thing, he will be dead soon, that's it.



More than anything - it didn't have a damned thing to do with a flag (how the Hell we all got distracted onto THAT one is beyond me).

just messin' with you a little....

you have no idea what you would've done in that situation.

the only people who know are the people who already been in a situation like this.

link

White supremacist group stands by racist ideology

Leaders of the organization cited in Dylann Roof's alleged manifesto defend many of his ideas as legitimate, though they condemn last week's shooting in Charleston.

The core principles of the Missouri-based Council of Conservative Citizens mirror many of the sentiments within a racist manifesto believed to have been authored by Roof, such as beliefs that the white race is under attack and that black-on-white crimes largely go unreported.

"The first website I came to was the Council of Conservative Citizens. There were pages upon pages of these brutal black on White murders. ... At this moment I realized that something was very wrong," the online manifesto allegedly written by Roof says.

The council's website contains pages tallying the number of whites murdered by blacks in the United States and others that describe various racially charged crimes and issues. The organization's statement of principles further outlines an opposition to "all efforts to mix the races of mankind" and argues the United States "should remain European in their composition and character."

Jared Taylor, a spokesperson for the Council of Conservative Citizens, spoke to CNN from his home in northern Virginia, where he has numerous Confederate war bonds and a small Confederate flag serving as decorations.

Taylor told CNN that his organization has "no direct connection" to Roof.

"He has never been a member, that's confirmed. And none of our members, so far as I know, has ever had any contact with him," Taylor said.

Taylor told CNN that his organization does not take responsibility for the shooting and condemned the violent act by Roof.

"What he did is absolutely horrible," Taylor said. "I don't think anyone on the council would dream about supporting such as thing. We have always encouraged active political involvement, speech, but absolutely no violence, no law breaking."

Obama heading to Charleston to deliver eulogy

Taylor defended what Roof may have learned from the council's website, however, explaining that Roof would have seen information supporting the group's belief that whites are under siege and being attacked in violent crimes in the United States.

"What Dylann Roof learned were facts, facts that are hard to find because they are essentially taboo in the United States today. So we have absolutely no apology for publishing the facts," Taylor told CNN.

Founded in 1985, the Council of Conservative Citizens stems from groups known as known as White Citizens Councils, which fought against school desegregation in the 1950s and '60s, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.

The SPLC identifies the council as a hate group that denigrates nonwhite races.

Though the council once had about 15,000 members, the group's annual conference in 2013 had about 75 attendants, according to the SPLC.

The council's current president, Earl Holt III, released a statement saying his organization does not advocate for illegal activities, but Holt said he is not surprised Roof credits the council in his apparent manifesto.

You can say lone wolf or whatever, but the facts show he was influenced by a terrorist group.

The Citizens' Councils of America may have changed tactics, but the message is the same as it was when they assassinated Medgar Evers.

I told you the truth that most here will not be able to handle.

I do like the pic.

of course they are going to stand by their ideology.

it's easy for them to stand by it, as they had no direct link with the guy, thus can claim their hands are clean.

which, in reality, is mostly true.

i've noticed in the world that people talk a lot of crap, like to beat their chest as superiors to <insert target demographic>, but the moment it's time to take physical actions, or say their ideals directly in the face of people they're talking to?

punks. very rarely do people actually act out their ideas when it comes to violence.