DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Southern Pride (Confederate Flag)

Ahh, but as always, once the Liberals open a can of worms they can't help but eagerly eat them all.

As a general rule, whenever anyone opens a statement with "Here's what liberals/conservatives do...", I tend to just tune them out. It's probably not worth reading from there.

Eh. The Silicon Valley guys really, really enjoy being the moralist. Personally, I dislike it a lot.

All is well now, the flags are gone and we have a victory in the battle over Racism.

The only thing I haven't seen change is Southern Pride, which is looking
stronger today than only a few days before.

Mission Accomplished!

This whole witch hunt is being driven by the left, so it seems that it might be embarrassing if folks on the left that are part of said driving force had profited from backing what they now condemn.


That should be left to the sole discretion of the people in those states. It should NOT be a matter of national debate. If the folks in those states want it gone, then yes, it should be gone.



I could not agree more, but this is America.... we do Knee-Jerk reactions better than most anyone. Can't afford to offend anyone, afterall.

Actually, the 4th star was added to honor the Confederate States in 1923 and adopted in 1924. Clinton's 1987 approval of Act 116 wasn't anything new regarding the state flag and was likely a result of the Supreme Court's ruling that flag burning was legal (see Link 3). The flags other stars also represent the countries that formerly/currently ruled its territory (Spain, France, and the United States). But let's not let facts get in the way when we can only provide part of a story in a way to make it look nefarious.

Link

Link 2

Of course, on this particular issue, your link fails to recognize the following:

His endorsement to remove the St. Andrews Cross from the state flag of Georgia in 1992, his recommendation to remove the Confederate flag from the South Carolina capitol building in 2000, as well as Hillary also calling for the Confederate flag to come down in South Carolina in 2007.

Link 3

But I guess if you want to keep trying to paint the Clinton's as some sort of Confederate sympathizers, go ahead. I find it interesting that so many conservatives try to do this. I wonder if they are projecting their own thoughts onto others or they are just trying to pander to their base? I'll let you work that out for yourself.

I don't think they are confederate sympathizers, I think they are political opportunists who would put darn near anything on a flag or a button if it helped them get elected, then they would fight about it later... after they got elected. the time for righteous indignation is AFTER you have won office, not before.

At the moment I'm a Bernie Sanders supporter, but I'm wondering why Hillary's not getting props from the right for saying "ALL" lives matter instead of black lives matter.

First you say the button is a fake. That's nonsense.

Then Clinton's official signature isn't good enough and try making it personal by saying I'm "projecting". More nonsense.

So here is the link to the eBay sale that ended for that button, showing 10 were sold.

eBay Link

I really don't know what more you need and to be honest, after the personal crap, I really don't care. Believe what you wish to.

The link I provided regarding the button indicated that there is no evidence that the button was officially distributed nor created by the Clinton/Gore campaign. By your stance, I can create a button of Ronald Reagan hugging a gay couple, burning the constitution with the statement Reagan for Communist Party Boss '84 and it is an official endorsement of Reagan for the Communist Party, gay marriage, and against the constitution.

The information and links I provided regarding Clinton and the Arkansas flag demonstrated the inherent bias in the information that you provided. You tried to pass on information indicating that Clinton placed the star on the flag of Arkansas to commemorate the Confederate States. I provided information that indicated the star has been apart of the flag since the 1920's. In addition, the information noted the reason why Clinton approved the Act.

If you can't understand the inherent bias in the information that you posted, I'm not sure what to tell you either.

I agree 100%. Politicians (of both parties) pander to the lowest common denominator and try not to make big waves when they are campaigning so as not to alienate the electorate.

How much credit should she get for stating the obvious?

But she did qualify that unborn lives don't really matter though right?...

Actually I think she said women's lives matter.

And with all due respect that's as far as I'll go with that.

J/C

Being offended is one thing, but endorsing a flag used to enslave individuals, champion a history of oppression based on skill color, and hiding behind an ugly heritage that never evolved is another topic entirely different than "offensive".

National Cathedral to remove Confederate stained glass

WASHINGTON — The dean of Washington National Cathedral has called for two stained-glass windows featuring Confederate flags to be taken down from the Gothic edifice, in yet another instance of institutions reconsidering countless tributes to the Southern cause.

"It is time to take those windows out," said the Very Rev. Gary Hall in a Thursday announcement.

The prominent building on the skyline of the nation's capital includes windows honoring Confederate generals Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson and Robert E. Lee, and each contains an image of the controversial flag.

"The Cathedral installed these windows, in part, because its leadership at the time hoped they would foster reconciliation between parts of the nation that had been divided by the Civil War," said Hall, who has called for the governing bodies of the cathedral to remove the windows that have been there since 1953.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/natio...ndows/29299901/

i think some of you are forgetting that it's mainly government buildings that the people in general wanted removed.

every business or church or whatever is doing this on their own accord.

Confirms what I've always believed.

So should the Very Rev. Gary Hall not be allowed to remove that flag?

This is the very same argument as the Nativity scene. Removing it from government land does not remove it from anywhere else unless someone decides to removes theirs.

What exactly are you trying to force the government to do?

This is the National Cathedral. You may legitimately question why we have such a thing, but seeing as how we do have such a thing, why should a single individual be able to decide to expunge history? Especially given that the spirit in which it was installed was to foster a reconciliation between two sides in a bitter Civil War. WTF is this, 1984?

So, if I'm reading this right... He wants people to stop disrespecting free men and slaves who fought for the South? Lulz

Excerpt from review of a book by Ira Berlin called "Slaves Without Masters":

In that raging year of Lincoln's election and Southern secession, there were a total of 488,070 free blacks living in the United States, about 10 percent of the entire black population. Of those, 226,152 lived in the North and 261,918 in the South, in 15 states (Delaware, Kentucky, Maryland, Missouri, North Carolina, Tennessee, Virginia, Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, South Carolina and Texas) plus the District of Columbia. Let me break that down further: A few months before the Confederacy was born, there were 35,766 more free black people living in the slave-owning South than in the North, and removing D.C. from the equation wouldn't have shifted the result. And they stayed there during the Civil War.

http://www.theroot.com/articles/history/2013/07/free_blacks_precivil_war_where_they_lived.1.html

Oh, well in that case, by all means, fly it over government buildings.

CHS implied that the blacks who fought for the confederacy were all slaves, ie: conscripted. I was just pointing out that free blacks lived in the south during the war and most likely fought for that side voluntarily.

Amazing how knowing what you are talking about can go such a long way. History is a wonderful thing.

i'm sure the majority wasn't.


i find it funny, people will find a couple blacks that go against the opinion, and act like "see!!! see!! a black guy said it!!"

From what I can gather, between 3,000 and 10,000 blacks fought for the south in the Civil war. I don't know how many were free men, but its counter-intuitive to say that only "a couple" were. The point is they existed and they sacrificed, which is all Walter Williams was saying, and which, imo, CHS was mocking.

the "couple" statement was in response to the confederate flag topic.

there were, yes, a few thousand freed blacks that fought, but the majority were still enslaved, that's also a fact.

here's what i mean by the "couple" statement.

right now we have a perverted version of the black panthers trying to tell people to kill white people.

then, there are a couple whites who agree with killing whites.

by no way does finding a couple of opposite races agreeing with something all of a sudden validate the opinion, as the example of that professor arguing in support of the flag.

once again, in my initial post, i said i really don't have much say in this. i'm not from the south so i dunno.

so my post are in response to some of the head scratching stuff i'm reading in this thread.

Sucks when an individual (or incredibly small % of people) makes a comment that gets attributed to an entire group, eh?

Somewhere purple font feels appropriate there.

If the single symbolic significance was heroic valor you'd have a point, but given the fact that despite any claim of the U.S. government's lack of respect for "states rights" it was specifically states' rights to own God's people merely because the color of their skin made them easy property to identify, brutalize them, force them to breed, sell their kids and separate husband from wife then I would expect the Reverend to feel a divine responsibility to expunge it from God's house.

Are you claiming the Confederate Flag trumps the word of God?

I don't know what the hell you are talking about. What I am talking about is history with all its warts being left on display for all to see. You sound like you think that by removing all evidence of what happened, it didn't happen. History is truth, what happened happened. We can either pretend it didn't happen or acknowledge that it happened while pledging that it can never happen again. What you are suggesting we should do is something from the Orwell's Ministry of Truth; turning Robert E Lee and Stonewall Jackson into "unpersons".

Libthingys care not for facts. They only care for History if they have written it.

facts?

well i guess this should be flying over all the states buildings then, since the US flag represents terrorism and defiance of authority, right?



i'm saying, this is our history, so anybody, including the government should be flying this as a sign of pride here in America.

Uh, the Stars and Stripes does not represent terrorism to us.

The Brits may have thought it represented defiance of authority at one time but being grown ups, they allow it to fly.

When are you gonna take that anti Christian, sign of oppression, Rainbow Flag off your house anyway?

I don't believe in a government that protects us from ourselves.
-Ronald Reagan

tell that to the indians.

remember what you guys are saying, the flag represents different meanings to different peoples.

i'm using you guys logic.

Does "free men" mean something different to you?

So you do know what "free men" means!