DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Cavs/Finals/NBA thread continued...

I don't think we are good at PG or 2, obviously you don't need a kyrie, but you need someone that can play at this level, that's not Delly. He can't shoulder the load and run the offense, he's a guy you throw in for 5-8 minutes a game to pester someone and try to knock them off their rhythm. We can't count on kyrie staying healthy, and I hate lebron at PG, he's a turnover machine and its all ISO ball.. get someone that can take the burden off those two and maybe preserve kyrie through the season;. So we need a guy that can defend, dribble, pass and run the offense at an average NBA level.

As far as the two, shump isn't it, he's not a good enough scorer or consistent enough shooter to start, but he's a great bench option. JR is JR, I don't think he's coming back. I'd love to try to get Danny Green.

We also need some semblance of an NBA bench, I said it all last year our bench would cost us in the long run and it did, granted they were asked to shoulder a huge load, but they failed miserably. Having Andy/Love back will help. Maybe Christmas can come in and get some time this year, and I'm hoping Harris takes a step forward, no reason he can't be our spot up shooter off the bench.

I defended Thompson a lot, last year especially, and was told that I lacked basketball knowledge (by a poster I haven't seen in a long time) almost every time I said that Thompson could be a useful NBA player.

What it comes down to for me is how valuable players at the same position are, relative to one another, and how do we keep our best team together long term?

I did not post playoff numbers because guys were not in their normal rotation. For example, we missed a ton of shots with both Kevin and Kyrie out, and that inflated certain opportunities for him on the offensive glass. He did a great job on the glass, especially the offensive glass, but much of what he did would not have been there for him to do if we were not missing 2 vital pieces of our offense, and if we were not missing shots at a record type pace. I think that we all know that JR Smith was adversely impacted by the fact that he became option #2 on offense far too often, and that is not a role he thrives is. Make him 3-4 and he is fantastic. Make him 2, and you're in trouble.

Think about this for a minute ...... you said that not one team had an answer for Thompson .... and to a degree that's true ..... but teams were also largely prepared for a team with Kevin Love, instead of Thompson. Thompson basically played "scrap ball", which a lot of PF play, cleaning up the scraps that come their way. He did very well at that. However, he is useless more than 3 feet from the basket. Lebron loves to drive ..... and with Thompson in the game, opposing teams could stay inside, even if Thompson moves away from the basket, because he is no risk to score from the outside.

Man, I think about how Love was playing in his 1st playoff experience, and I just almost get physically sick about how Olynyk injured him so unnecessarily.

Love played 2 full games, and he gave us 19/12/4, 13/6/2, and 23/9/2 before Olynyk yanked his arm out of the socket. He was playing his best basketball of the year, and his presence opens up so much for other players. Opposing bigs have to chase him all over the court. They cannot play a lot of help, because Love will knock down shots if they leave him alone. Thompson can be left alone by opposing bigs if he strays more than a yard away from the basket. He is no risk to knock down shots. That hurt us a lot as well.

I am going to make an incredibly profound statement here ...... Losing Love and Irving to injury cost us the championship. How's that for profound? lol We could no longer play our game. Missing Irving and Love for almost the whole series wore on the team, and the Warriors could work to shut off the middle. Having a player (Thompson) who is anchored to the middle did not help Lebron at all. Lebron is best with Irving and Love set up outside, so that he can penetrate, and then dish if he wants. Missing both Irving and Love made that far more difficult. The middle closed up, and missing 2 of our best shooters cost us a ton of opportunities. With Thompson in the game, that anchored the opposing PF to the middle, because if Thompson swung outside, so what? Why cover a guy with no shot from more than 5 feet? If he knocks down a shot from there, you tip your hat and move on. Despite all of this, Lebron almost willed us to a Finals Championship, but not even he could beat a healthy Warriors team missing so many pieces on his team.

I do think that Thompson had a great run in the playoffs. No one can dispute that. For me, the question becomes, can the Cavaliers pay Thompson, and still keep Love and Lebron this year, and Mozgov next year? To me, the starters are more important to keep than any of the backups, especially when it comes to handing out max deals. To me, that is what it ultimately comes down to. Can we commit 4 max deals t out front court? (Lebron, Love, Thompson, and Mozgov) and still have any outside shooting at all? Would we be a better team if we use Haywood's contract to take on a player at PF who can do the things that Thompson can do, and who has a bad contract, (but not a max deal) and then keep the rest of the team together? Can we, maybe, take a player with a contract like that, and also get a draft pick and a backup PG in the deal as well?

I do not want to lose Kevin Love. I think that he is a much better player, especially offensively, and that's not even close. I think that he can do everything that Thompson does on the boards, and more. If it comes down to Love or Thompson, I will be furious if we keep Thompson at the expense of Love. I also and still wonder if a team can afford to pay 2 players the max when they both play the same position?

We'll see what happens.

yea man.

our starters, when healthy, showed up in the playoffs. love was balling out.

i think if we can manage to have the big 3 back, once we lock in a #1 or 2 seed, we need to shut these guys down like Atlanta did.

i know love injury was a bush league play, and more than likely he would've been in the entire playoff run, but kyrie and lebron specifically need to be shut down.

if there's ONE thing i would complain about blatt, is he pulled a Theabou(sp, ex coach of bulls) and ran his starters into the ground even before we got hit with the injury bug in the playoffs.

LOL........I remember a guy who liked to drop that line.

You make a good argument, but I disagree w/you on Thompson only getting those numbers because we missed a record number of shots. The guy is relentless and his numbers went up because he got more PT.

I also disagree that TT gets in the way of LeBron and that no one has to guard him. That was the strategy early in the playoffs and he made them pay by dominating the boards. Teams were forced to keep a man on him at all times. They even resorted to face guarding him, which effectively opened up the lane for our drivers and took his guy off the glass.

I am not arguing w/you about Love and his importance to our team. Heck, I remembering arguing w/you and most of the regulars on this forum about trading for him last year. And yeah, that same poster said I lacked basketball knowledge. LOL

I think the goal is to bring both guys back. I hope they do and I think it is important to do so. Second round picks aren't going to provide what TT does. And another thing, TT is only going to get better. The evolution of his game is beginning to take off.

Keeping Moz, Love, and TT would help this team tremendously. We don't want any of them to play 48 minutes a game. We can effectively rotate all three guys and the 4 and 5 positions will always be a strength of this team.

Still haven't heard your thoughts on the PG position.