DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Johnny Manziel...continued x2

Define "lighting it up."

Weeden used to "light it up" during OTA's and MC.

Cleveland Browns enjoy an upbeat workout with new QB Jake Delhomme

"He is an older veteran, but you see him on the field and he slings the ball like he's still a rookie. It doesn't look like he's lost any velocity on the ball," said left tackle Joe Thomas.........

The main attraction to the Browns was Delhomme's intangibles as an experienced former Super Bowl quarterback -- his presence in the locker room and his leadership on the field. These are quite evident to the team already.

"Taking a leadership position, that's what a quarterback does. That's what a quarterback is. He's no stranger to being the leader of an offense," Watson said.

"He's like a consummate team player," Thomas said. "He came right in and fit right in. Jumped right into the workouts. .....

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2010/05/cleveland_browns_enjoy_an_upbe.html

same every year at this time lol.

I have said from day 1 mccown is gonna look good until he gets hit. You know that. Right now he is looking good and i dont give a flying crap about Weeden. Until he looks like crap he is our guy or Johnny out plays him. He is probably gonna look like a stud throughout preseason also as we dont play anyone with a defense other than the Bills, hmm maybe i said that in my post above?

Not Really.

Besides Jeff Garcia, Jake DelHomme is the only other viable veteran QB the young Browns have had. And Thomas wasn't a Brown then. So it's understandable Thomas is impressed with the DelHombre, since he's the best QB Thomas has teamed with so far.

So really it's a bit different this year, which isn't saying much. LOL

No disagreement from me. I was very pleased when we picked him up and it's a shame, after a solid first half, that he sustained an injury...

Thanks, but I still don't get how McCown "is lighting it up..."

Reporters and some players have been saying that. Flip and Pettine have suggested it.

Nobody, not one of us know that it's a fact or wishful thinking. Of course, we don't know it isn't accurate either.

good. maybe im wrong about the guy. sure isnt what i saw watching his games though.

Just off-season fluff.

What are they supposed to say? That he stinks?

I'm skeptical though. Charlie Frye and Brandon Weeden had fluff articles suggesting that they had been growing as QB's too. Let's wait and see what the preseason looks like. eh?

Which is why I won't get excited or get my shorts in a bunch...

I hear you and that is a fair reply. I suppose my intent was not clear. Let me try again:

How can you REALLY tell if a guy is "lighting it up" in OTA's? There is not any contact on the qb. The defense isn't disguising anything. The WRs aren't getting jammed like normal. The pressure isn't as intense.

We've heard the same thing so many times. That is why I brought up Weeds. He was always great in OTA's and even in preseason games, but once the bullets started flying, he sucked.

McCown has basically sucked for almost his entire career. I wonder why people think things will all of a sudden change at his age? Heck, how old is he? 32? 33? Heck, why would the worst team in the NFL cut him?

I guess my point was that any reports of him "lighting it up" should be taken for what they are........meaningless monologue designed to keep the faithful happy.

going to be 36 lmao.

Marvelous.

j/c

I see the suggestion that McCown is lighting it up in OTA's about as valuable as Bridgewater having a bad pro day.

Pretty meaningless.

Something I want to say everyone is saying all these guys looked good in shorts but thats really not true. I remember watch Colt really struggle making simple throws. I remember Watching Brady quit light it up inside 12 yards but everything beyond that was garbage. I remember watching DA stagger chad Mustard from 7 yards away on screen pass when he didnt get his head around quickly. I wasnt there but last year Hoyer and Johnny struggled mightily. Go back to Couch and Holcomb and cpouch looked great but u still saw the geezz glad it was practice throws and Holcomb was just awful with accuracy.

So the positive is really positive. I think the only one that was truly lighting it up early was probably Jake Delhomme. he just looked so much beyond all the other QBs we had to this point. If he hadnt went down with injury, he was playing the best I had seen him.

Again though thing with McCown is he doesnt like to get hit at all. Thats where he falls apart.

The conversation then turned to Johnny Manziel and Justin Gilbert, two players who have failed to live up to the hype early on in their NFL careers. All is not lost with these two, but time isn't on their side.

Dansby doesn't seem concerned about the two former first round picks.

"They look good. Both of them are competing at a high level. Johnny is going through his reads, he's trying to make the second and third reads. He's just developing. Justin Gilbert is doing the same, he's playing with great technique right now, he's trusting his technique. He's making plays: he had a couple of interceptions, a couple of batted down passes. He's just getting his confidence, growing into a professional athlete. It takes time. You have the rare ones who come in and 'Boom,' it's their moment. But with some guys, it takes time."

Marvez then asked a followup question about Manziel, inquiring if the quarterback formerly known as "Johnny Football" has changed off-the-field. Dansby danced around the question.

"In the locker room, he's Johnny. He's one of the guys. He's going to joke, chill out with the fellas, laugh, have a good time. That's just what Johnny does as he leaves the locker room. We were so focused and we were under a time crunch so we really didn't have time to hang out like that on a daily basis because we were so focused on trying to get better."

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2015/6/26/8855299/browns-lb-karlos-dansby-offense-is-explosive

We don't have any way to know. It's not a live game situation so it's one thing to practice and light it up, its gotta be a totally different thing when the bullets start flying for real.

It's nice to hear, but it really doesn't mean much

But... let's be real. As much as we all want to feel happy and joyful for our two first round picks last year and want to hold these stories tightly and not let go, they just finished up OTAs. It's mega early.

Let's just hope Justin, Johnny and etc can stay outta trouble and out of headlines (not indicating that was an issue with Justin) these weeks leading up to training camp.

What if we heard the opposite: McCown struggling with accuracy. He is missing his reads. He looks lost can't remember plays. Would you still say it is only OTAs?

We are hearing good things about McCown mixed slightly favorable reports on Manziel. I say that is adequate move on to next step. It's like this every pre-season. Everything looks promising and first games comes I'm scratching my head wondering where in the world did they get these guys!

Nothing really means anything until the real games start. Not a pro day, not OTA's, not even pre season. You even said that you too were fooled by Teddy's pro day, now it means something?

lmao

No, but not because I am biased, which of course is what you are insinuating. I have such a history of "making things up," right bugs?

I would say that any qb who doesn't look good in OTA's sucks. If you can't be accurate against air and no pressure, than you do indeed---suck!

Actually, I wasn't insinuating. I was really asking if it be a lot more concern if QBs struggled. Being that they accomplished what was expected it is simply a check off an item on their to-do list.

This offense, as so many stated and it's true, lacks strong individual talent at the play maker position. Right now it is what is unless some block buster trade happens. Remember it takes talent to get talent. I don't think Browns have much to spare. It'll be rob Peter to pay Paul.

My hope during training camp is we see a consistent growth throughout. In order for this offense to succeeded, it must function, at a high level, as a team. Then, in the coming years, offense gets significantly better adding talent.

BUT, this offense needs to incorporate an identity and heart. End of last year, I don't care who coached, showed it rolled over not caring. You didn't see "finish the season strong" like the defense. I don't care who the "F" they add to this offense. It needs a heart, brotherhood, soul, or whatever functioning as a unit. There were a lot of "Me's" on that offense last year.

Didn't both Hoyer and Manziel struggle early on last year, in OTAs and the pre-season?

Yes. Why do you ask?

Is he hanging out with Gordon?

Because Hoyer actually came out of the pre-season, barely beating Manziel, and looking like he had never played the position, and started the season very well. I was stunned at how well he started the season, for the 1st 5 games or so anyway.

Completely agree and well said. I'm hoping our OL keeps McCown's jersey nice and clean.

Yeah, that's true.

The statement I made earlier about OTA's was a general statement, not an all-encompasing statement.

Even w/that said, look at Hoyer's deep ball. It was amazing how many really terrible throws he made to guys that were wide open. We left a lot of points on the field. We would have scored quite a few more points if Hoyer could have just made decent throws rather than those deep passes that looked more like punts.

Well, I don't completely agree.

I personally witnessed Holcomb lighting it up. I saw Charlie Frye look good. I saw DA looking like a stud. I read about Jake. I read about Colt's command of the offense. I read about Weeden dazzling people w/his arm. I have read countless articles over the years about our QBs looking good in OTA's and MC's, TC's and even in preseason games. It's pretty much the same thing every year and it's not limited to the QB position.

McCown is 36 years old [man, can't believe that...]He has a history of being a bad qb. He was even out of football for a year. He was a starting qb three times in his entire career.

2004 w/the Cardinals. He threw 11 TDs and 10 picks. QB Rating was 74.1.

2007 w/the Raiders. He threw 10 TDs and 11 picks. QB Rating was 69.4.

2014 w/Tampa Bay. He threw 11 TDs and 14 picks. QB Rating was 70.5.

He had one good year w/the Bears when he came off the bench for Cutler and performed well on a team that had an excellent RB, excellent WRs, and a good TE. Even after that performance, the Bears let him walk in favor of Jay Cutler.

He then went back to his old ways and was cut by the worst team in the entire NFL after a dreadful performance as their starter. Heck, even in TB, he had two big, excellent WRs.

Did you guys know that other than that one very good statistical year in Chicago, that McCown never had a QB Rating of 75 or better?

Maybe he will be the second coming of Jim Plunkett, but until he actually does something on the field, I will not put much stock in fluff offseason articles that say he is "lighting it up."

I agree he made some really bad deep throws. I remember one to Hawkins that was completed, but was thrown like a punt. Hoyer was scrambling to his left and saw Hawkins break wide open to the right. Rather than take a second to get his feet under him, he just turned his upper torso and threw a pop-up that took forever to get there. Still, the pass was completed and I believe it led to a win. That said I also remember two really well thrown deep balls to Gabriel and Cameron who caught the balls in stride and inexplicably fell with nothing but green field in front of them. I also remember a well thrown deep ball at the end of the Indy game that Gordon quit on.

This could be the deciding point why Hoyer struggled later half of the season. OL diminished taking away some of the run game strength and Hoyer's lack of deep ball threat contributed.

It'll be a real mystery what happens this season. If McCown can make a consistant threat down field and doesn't have to be many, it will open things up.

As you stated, McCown is freak'n old! I think it would be best dividing time between Manziel and McCown. I know playing two QBs hasn't been done with a lot of success, but I feel this is kind of unique situation. Future isn't riding with McCown it's Manziel or someone else. Phasing Johnny slowly maybe just the ticket. I stated in another post and think the only way Browns offense can be successful is playing well as whole.

Which is why this entire conversation is meaningless.

If you polled those on this board and asked a simple question:

Do you expect Josh McCown to be a solid starter?

1. Yes
2. No

My guess (and it's just a guess) you'd have about 80 to 90% of the responses being #2.

I doubt many folks on here or if you just go out into the public around NE Ohio, would say he's the answer. Most would say he's not.

I bet if you took another pole:

Is Johnny Manziel Ever going to be a winning QB in the NFL?

1. Yes
2. No

Once again, I'd think you'd see more folks answer #2.

FYI, I'd answer #2 for both questions.

What's that say? Not much really other than the vast majority of fans don't believe we have a Stud at QB.

So when you preach about it, you are merely preaching to choir around here.

I don't think I know one person IRL that thinks we have a franchise QB on this team.

So, I am not allowed to reply when people are referring to McCown lighting it up?

That seems kinda odd on a message board.

You are possibly the most defensive guy on this board. Apparently you think that Everything written in response to one of your posts is a personal attack on you.

Don't put words in my mouth.

LOL..........I was just asking you an honest question.

That answer doesn't bode well for our boy Johnny. I can't read that last line other than "we're here working" and he's not, so no we can't spend time with him...