DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Same-Sex Marriage Ruled Constitutional

Sincere question. If you, or others can't list benefits aside from what I've listed - substantial benefits - what's all the hoopla about?

Cool, so if we're still going by Old Testament law as affirmed by Jesus, then I take it that you and other strict Christians are not eating pork or other forbidden foods like shellfish or those that mix meat and dairy (bummer, no cheeseburgers), not wearing clothing made of more than one material (so much for those cotton/poly blend t-shirts), planting fields with only one crop, not trimming your beard or cutting your hair, not getting a tattoo, working on the Sabbath, etc.

I'm sure you guys are obeying all of those laws and the ones I didn't list, right?

Which is exactly what I said. You are free to say that homosexuality is a sin, because the Bible says so. If that right is ever taken from you, count me on your side. Just don't act like it's unfair if those beliefs aren't taken into consideration when it comes to law. They shouldn't be taken seriously in that context.

Sadly there are not many real followers of God left in this country.

Cool, so if we're still going by Old Testament law as affirmed by Jesus, then I take it that you and other strict Christians are not eating pork or other forbidden foods like shellfish or those that mix meat and dairy (bummer, no cheeseburgers), not wearing clothing made of more than one material (so much for those cotton/poly blend t-shirts), planting fields with only one crop, not trimming your beard or cutting your hair, not getting a tattoo, working on the Sabbath, etc.

I'm sure you guys are obeying all of those laws and the ones I didn't list, right?

To hear some of these politicians and religious leaders go on about it, you'd think homosexuality was a sin worse than slavery, or murder, or even lying. But according to the Bible no sin is any less deserving of God's wrath than another.

There are only seven verses on homosexuality in the Bible. All of them are found in the Old Testament or in Paul's manuscripts. Compare this to hundreds of references to economic injustice, wealth redistribution, accumulating wealth, etc. I've often considered a classical interpretation of the Bible to be at odds with modern day Calvinism Christianity and deregulated Capitalism.

So, if gay marriage is constitutional and as such all states must recognize a gay marriage from another state... does that mean that since gun ownership is constitutional, that all other states must recognize my right to carry a gun?

If homosexual behavior doesn't offend you as a Christian the same way stealing, lying, or killing does then you better check your salvation because chances are you left it behind somewhere trying to keep mankind happy instead of God. If you have the Holy Spirit in your heart then ALL sin should offend you and not be OK

I do agree with you that too many are concerned with the accumulation of wealth and "stuff", when they should, instead, be helping those less fortunate. I also find it unfortunate that this who gay marriage debate has become one where Christians as seen as somehow hateful. I don't deny that some people are hateful towards gay people. I see them as simply one more sinner, just like the rest of us. It is not the sinner that is the problem, it is the sin.

I do think that many everyday Christians do offer a piece of what God has given them to be used to help others. Perhaps we do not offer enough. I don't know. The Bible offers 1/10th as a tithe ..... but I believe that we are expected to help beyond that as well, if we are able.

You imply that Jesus said nothing about homosexuality, but He actually did. He did not use the words specifically, but what did he say?

Let's look: (and I had this all in my earlier post on this thread, IIRC)

In Matthew 19: 1-9, Jesus said: When Jesus had finished these words, He departed from Galilee and came into the region of Judea beyond the Jordan; and large crowds followed Him, and He healed them there.

Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?” And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? “So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” They said to Him, “Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?” He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. “And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

Jesus said "one man and one woman", not "one man and one man", or "one woman and one woman". If anyone knows anything about Jesus, He was not afraid to turn social convention on its head. If he felt that a gay marriage was within God's plan, He would have plainly said so. Instead, he plainly says the opposite. One man and one woman, becoming one flesh. It cannot be any more clear than that.

Also in Matthew, chapter 19: 16-19, Jesus said the following: Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

“Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

“Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, honor your father and mother,’ and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’”

What is adultery? Well, Jesus said that even looking upon a (woman) to lust after her is adultery. By simple extension, this can also be expanded to any person looking upon another person to lust after them. Women who lust after men are not somehow exempt, and neither are men who lust after men, or so on. Adultery at its basic definition, though, is extramarital or premarital sex. It is any sexual conduct that is not within the bonds of marriage. So, if we accept this as a true definition, and I don't know anyone who would debate that basic point, and that marriage, according to Jesus, is between one man and one woman, becoming one flesh, for life, and that adultery is absolutely wrong. (no matter what combination of genders are involved)

For me, I have only spoken about homosexuality because it is the "hot topic". However, many of my posts also speak about the rampant divorce rate today, people who accept lying and stealing as perfectly acceptable, those who try to create their own God while saying that they are Christians, by trying to tell God what to believe, instead of believing and obeying what God tells us to do.

Man, I fully admit that I was one of the world's worst sinners. Jesus Christ saved me from that. However, in my old life, I was a liar, an adulterer, an isolator, a thief, and more. I broke almost every of the 10 Commandments.

Many people would be shocked, but should they be?

We all tell lies. It is often more expedient to tell a lie, rather than the truth.

We all commit adultery if we follow the definition Jesus gave us.

We have all stolen, whether a physical item, or an idea stolen from someone else. Napster showed how happily people will take huge risks of having their own property (their computer) ruined just so they can steal something.
They called it "sharing", but it was stealing, pure and simple.

I created a god that did what I wanted, instead of doing what God demands of me. I had actually managed to talk myself into believing that because of what Paul taught, that I could go and sin to my hearts content, because I was forgiven anyway. I had convinced myself that I did not have to change at all, and that God should accommodate me, not that I should obey Him.

I could go on and on ...... but you get the point. I was in open rebellion against God. Fortunately, He brought me back to Him, and showed me His light, grace, love, and mercy. I certainly did not deserve it.

I believe that we are all sinners, and that we will all have sin in our lives until we are free from this world. However, we should not plan to sin, and make a conscious decision to rebel against God's Word. We may slip, but God does not want supposed followers who violate His laws in a willful and rebellious manner. This is where I see the problem with gay marriage. It establishes a relationship that the Bible says is sinful, and tries to make it seem legitimate .... which according to the Bible, it can never be. I don't want to see anyone condemned, but those in open rebellion to God will, I believe, be condemned. The Bible says that we accpt Christ as our Lord as well as Savior. That means that we are to obey, and not just try to grab toe good stuff, without doing what God requires of us.

Anyway, those are my points.

Cool, so if we're still going by Old Testament law as affirmed by Jesus, then I take it that you and other strict Christians are not eating pork or other forbidden foods like shellfish or those that mix meat and dairy (bummer, no cheeseburgers), not wearing clothing made of more than one material (so much for those cotton/poly blend t-shirts), planting fields with only one crop, not trimming your beard or cutting your hair, not getting a tattoo, working on the Sabbath, etc.

I'm sure you guys are obeying all of those laws and the ones I didn't list, right?

You imply that Jesus said nothing about homosexuality, but He actually did. He did not use the words specifically, but what did he say?

I have a question for everybody. How is gay marriage any more of a sin than a Heterosexual who gets a divorce and then gets married a second or third time? The churches are full of people who got divorced (not due to adultery)then married somebody else, yet you never hear Christians yelling and screaming that this is so wrong.

I have a question.

What do you think Jesus meant when He told us to take up our cross and follow Him?

I didn't mean to imply that Jesus said nothing. He literally said nothing. We can extrapolate what we *believe* Jesus would say on homosexuality but we have no record on it ourselves. Even extrapolating that same-sex relations is adultery is sketchy because that implies a modern understanding of relationships. In the times of Jesus same-sex relations were often alongside married ones.

There are just as many (if not more) pro-slavery versus in the bible than there are anti-homosexual. Before the civil war preachers used a literal translation of these versus to support slave ownership. In the 150 or so years since, preachers have "changed" the versus to mean slavery as a figurative rather than literal concept. If we are to take the homosexual passages in the bible as literal, then we should take the whole Bible as literal, including how one buys and treats slaves. If we do not take some passages as literal, then we should caution against taking ANY passages as literal. Cherry picking the Bible is building a God in the image you want, not in God himself.

They are both equally wrong.

Your posts have always made me think that you believe America is, "The Great Satan".

Yet preachers preform the weddings everyday. The couples are welcome in church. They are not looked down upon, nor treated differently, yet gay couples are

Arch, remember when you said how now that its legal, we should move on?

look at the ones raising a fuss, it ain't the people who support it. all over the news, in conservative ran governments, social media.

the majority of people-who supported it- have moved on. on to the next issue.

The Bible simply sought to address how one should live and behave in a world where slavery was the normal.

So, if gay marriage is constitutional and as such all states must recognize a gay marriage from another state... does that mean that since gun ownership is constitutional, that all other states must recognize my right to carry a gun?

I wish I could remember the exact words our pastor used today - as he touched on the SC ruling, as well as some other things going on in the world. Don't attack me (you, or anyone) please - if I don't quote him verbatim.

And before I try my best to get it right, even the 1 gay lady in attendance didn't take it personal. (and I didn't take it offensively, either)

Basically, regarding the s.c. ruling - he said "I've been contacted by members in the last 2 days about how to react/respond. On one hand, it's not our job to judge, and on the other hand, we are called to spread the word of God, as Christians. What we can't do is be judgmental or derogatory. What we can do is spread the word about God's love for ALL of us."

Again - my wording is NOT what he said verbatim....and in fact, it's missing some of what he did say.

Do you not believe in state rights?

To hear some of these politicians and religious leaders go on about it, you'd think homosexuality was a sin worse than slavery, or murder, or even lying. But according to the Bible no sin is any less deserving of God's wrath than another.

There are only seven verses on homosexuality in the Bible. All of them are found in the Old Testament or in Paul's manuscripts. Compare this to hundreds of references to economic injustice, wealth redistribution, accumulating wealth, etc. I've often considered a classical interpretation of the Bible to be at odds with modern day Calvinism Christianity and deregulated Capitalism.